Who takes the fall?

[tiamat63]

Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.

 

Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.

Your argument is that you know what you have within one year. Does that NOT imply a winning team? Because that is exactly where you were heading and in such case, Landry and Noll are great examples.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Im not going to spend the time analyzing the pro and cons or record differences of front office change and how it relates to first year coaches or second year coaches aswell.

 

We can all admit we are a bit off the rails currently as a team whether that be an over reliance on analytics for player acquisition or over reliance on coaching in that case. Horrible luck or poor coaching or a dearth of talent. Doing this poorly I can guarantee is NOT part of the plan.

 

Unless we win some games soon changes are coming i don't know who but if we go 0-16 it could be anybody. I still prefer New DC and a true OC.

 

Tia both our points can be true

[flyingfooldoug]

It seems that if Horton goes, it should be Hue that pulls that trigger. But if it's the HC that goes, that one is or should be on the GM. OK except we don't have a real GM. It's a triad there. Depo, Shashi and Jimmy. I can't help but wonder who is making decisions? Right now we're the worst at everything, from blocking to drafting. Is there improvement? Do you really have to go backwards to go forward? Never had to pre 99.

[CaineDeSoulis]

No you don't flying. I believe the only safe spot in the building will be depo and haslem but that being said i Highly Highly doubt a full reset would happen. If HC goes for example that will be it FO safe. Probably have a little bit of each for changes. Couple of coaches here maybe sashi brown. Hell maybe Al Saunders gets to be HC and Hue Jax is the OC hell i dont know. If i did i wouldn't be here with you glorious bastards suffering another crap season arguing for things that wont matter in 3 years hoping for another win.

[flyingfooldoug]

I'm not saying we axe or don't axe anyone. What's the chain of command football wise? I thought Hasslam was bowing out but it sure doesn't seem that way if he can't let the GM crew make decisions on their own. Randy was slow to act and Jimmy too fast. At least Randy didn't meddle. Jimmy wants to be like Jerry.

[D Bone]

Conversely, you were at least alive to see years of good Browns play. I was born in 89, for the most part I've only seen sorrow.

 

I've seen 4 winning seasons in my entire life.

 

Bummer! I graduated high school in '85 and got to enjoy all of the 80s teams.... I thought I was a gluten for punishment, but all you know is misery.

[tiamat63]

 

I thought I was a gluten

You're a grain based protein?

[Tour2ma]

1. Please remember that the argument is not meant to be a coaches are only good if the y are successful in their first year and fire them otherwise but
2. using tom landry and chuck noll as a reason not to fire Hue Jackson because they also started poorly is silly and has been mentioned about 2000 times now.
3. Front office could be changed instead of Hue Jax as mud pointed out aswell and would still satisfy the point of the speculation here.

 

Part one was fully understood I assure you.

Part two is not silly...

Part three... Huh?

[Tour2ma]

Im not going to spend the time analyzing the pro and cons or record differences of front office change and how it relates to first year coaches or second year coaches aswell.

 

We can all admit we are a bit off the rails currently as a team whether that be an over reliance on analytics for player acquisition or over reliance on coaching in that case. Horrible luck or poor coaching or a dearth of talent. Doing this poorly I can guarantee is NOT part of the plan.

 

Unless we win some games soon changes are coming i don't know who but if we go 0-16 it could be anybody. I still prefer New DC and a true OC.

 

Tia both our points can be true

 

And I am certainly not going to waste time checking the 6 or 8 HCs that you added to your original list after i began an examination of your original 14(?).

 

But yes, we can agree on rails and not as bad... and even on the need for an OC.

[D Bone]

You're a grain based protein?

 

LOL!!

[The Gipper]

Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:

• Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
• Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
• George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
• Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
• Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
• Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
• Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
• Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
• Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
• Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
• Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
• Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
• Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
• John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1

So I'll give you 4 of 14...

 

Rebuttle?

What exactly is it that you are trying to evidence here?

[Tour2ma]

How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.

How long is that list?

 

You're welcome... now try to keep up...

[CaineDeSoulis]

only 3 more games until we have lost every game including our friendlies....0 and 17 including those at this point...

any indictment of RG3 is an indictment of our head coach as the reports from preseason and camp season of Jackson's complete infatuation and focus on proving himself correct about rg3 and NEGLECT of the rest of our team has become painfully evident. Hopefully in his second season he becomes Humbled by this and leads a better team next year.

Is RG3 the person who takes the fall lol

[Dawgs89]

Haslam is stuck between a rock and hard place. On one hand, how can you bring back the coach who presided over a complete losing season ( Including preseason). On the other, Hue gets fired and that's four coaches gassed in a five year period. Would almost be to the point where the league would have to step in.

[Vagitron]

Why in the HELL would you fire hue jackson? Some of you act like the Browns were/are really on the verge of a super bowl. The team still needs to recover from the Farmer era. Firing Jackson just screams "more of the same please" and the factory of sadness remains open for another 2-3 seasons at least. The browns NEED continuity to turn the corner. As an outsider im always shocked by this from the Browns base. Yes the team has had bad coaches, i wouldnt label jackson as a bad coach considering the qb revolving door and the injuries.

 

Get a damn grip doom and gloomer coach firing bridage. Fire jackson and enjoy more mediocrity.

[miktoxic]

Why in the HELL would you fire hue jackson? Some of you act like the Browns were/are really on the verge of a super bowl. The team still needs to recover from the Farmer era. Firing Jackson just screams "more of the same please" and the factory of sadness remains open for another 2-3 seasons at least. The browns NEED continuity to turn the corner. As an outsider im always shocked by this from the Browns base. Yes the team has had bad coaches, i wouldnt label jackson as a bad coach considering the qb revolving door and the injuries.

 

Get a damn grip doom and gloomer coach firing bridage. Fire jackson and enjoy more mediocrity.

 

i'd rather have the farmer pettine era. just my opinion. the fans did to them what they want to do to jackson now..........so now who get's to pick and choose? a fucking stooler fan? you know talent like piss knows a bucket. like the browns FO. this FO whiffed on every WR they picked. farmer whiffed on every DB. so? 6 or one one half a dozen?

 

GTFO.

[Vagitron]

 

i'd rather have the farmer pettine era. just my opinion. the fans did to them what they want to do to jackson now..........so now who get's to pick and choose? a fucking stooler fan? you know talent like piss knows a bucket. like the browns FO. this FO whiffed on every WR they picked. farmer whiffed on every DB. so? 6 or one one half a dozen?

 

GTFO.

Im no front office executive but i know more than my fair share about the nfl. Fire another coach, enjoyed further suckitude. Its pretty damn simple.

 

Edit: you enjoyed the farmer era? Based on what? Blown first round draft choices?

[Tour2ma]

Fire RG3? After one outing?

 

Could be a new low in Browns' fandom...

[DieHardBrownsFan]

RG3 suks. Not after one outing, after this failed attempt of Hue bringing him back. Him and Hue have to go.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Only reason Haslam won't fire Hue is because he is black. If he were white he would be gone, guarfuckingteed.

[miktoxic]

Im no front office executive but i know more than my fair share about the nfl. Fire another coach, enjoyed further suckitude. Its pretty damn simple.

 

Edit: you enjoyed the farmer era? Based on what? Blown first round draft choices?

 

i haven't enjoyed anything cleveland browns since the 80s bro. i mean i love the team but i haven't been giddy about them since kosar was the QB. sure there have been glimpses of some great talent that could've blossomed if given the right situation but didn't because of poor management and decision making........from a multitude of regimes sence the reinstatement in '99.

 

you complain about 'don't fire hue' well i agree, but i'll also fall back on my BIGGEST gripe about how things go down here and my feloow fans: who says who get's the right to go forward as a regime (in a fans' mind)? sure everyone can bitch and complain given their view which is completely self centered. hated holmgren. liked mangini. hated chud. liked davis. liked pettine. that's my opinion. so why wouldn't you have given pettine or mangini or butch davis the courtesy of 3 years to turn it around considering they finally got their guys in place and blah blah blah? oh no, but let's give hue the WHOLE 5 years because why? answer that batman. just let me know what he has done? he and the FO to make me believe like 'yeah, we got the right guy!' when i believed it in so many other coaches and staffs that you and others thought sucked BUT we will never know how good or bad they could have been because they got canned because of their record.

 

hue jackson. 0 and 13 and given his past HC experience he's a whopping 8-13 with another 3 losses on the way. so we got a .500 coach. whoopdeefuckingdoo!! and i'm supposed to feel optimistic going forward? why? cuz there's smart people in the FO? hell there were smart people in charge of Enron.

 

yeah i'll give this squad a chance. my chances go out the window after next year's draft. period.

[Tour2ma]

Only reason Haslam won't fire Hue is because he is black. If he were white he would be gone, guarfuckingteed.

 

Right...

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Right, 0-13 soon too be 0-16 coaches deserve another go...

[tiamat63]

Only reason Haslam won't fire Hue is because he is black. If he were white he would be gone, guarfuckingteed.

 

Yeah, that type of shit looks real good for non board members.

[Bob806]

We can't shift direction again, it's way too soon. Hue knows football, he knows the league. Depth and injuries derailed this season.

 

Look, the analytic guys will (hopefully) analyze their plan, and adjust. They'll have at least 4 of the top 65 picks. DO NOT TRADE DOWN.

 

As bad as 0-13 is, if, yes IF, they get 4 or 5 solid draftees, they'll be like Indy or Houston...not spectacular, but close to a contender.

[calfoxwc]

the Browns have a lack of talent. forget the dumping on the head coach all the time.

 

I think, after seeing how RGiii has done the same things with the Redskins... that he doesn't see

the field much. I give up on thinking he has "it". He just doesn't. Too bad. His decision-making

is atrocious often, his accuracy sucks bigtime on short and intermediate throws. The Browns have to trade

for one (Garopollo, of course, the guy a lot of us wanted in the draft), or draft one... Trubisky.

I've just decided that RGiii has reached his level of incompetence.

 

The Browns need to draft a KR, because Louis? seems like he wants to run sideways to not get hit.

 

Secondary needs fixed. Doesn't work. Probably lack of talent, maybe Horton hears a Who,

 

and watching the linebackers today, after watching Alambama play Florida... the Browns desperately

need a dynamic Reuben Foster. He's amazing - explosive, fast, outsanding instincts, makes plays from sideline

to sideline, ... he and Zach Cunningham would be outstanding additions to the Browns' defense. Foster

is outstanding. If only Foster would reach the second round... for just one pick by the Browns.

 

Maybe the problem is, that pass coverage works on Horton's paper, but not in real football on the field.

TE's get wide open like I can't believe, gaps are huge, coverage so much of the time is behind the receiver..

it just doesn't work most of the time. Too bad. The upside, though, is that the Browns do NOT GIVE UP, not

for one second.

 

and the refs. that horsecollar tackle vs Coleman nearly wasn't called. WTF ?

[calfoxwc]

and, the Browns are going in the right direction, they just lack talent. You don't fire coaches just because

they aren't winning their first year. You only fire coaches when they are going in the wrong direction, and

have lost the team.

 

Anything else is a dumb emotional knee jerk.

[hoorta]

Why in the HELL would you fire hue jackson? Some of you act like the Browns were/are really on the verge of a super bowl. The team still needs to recover from the Farmer era. Firing Jackson just screams "more of the same please" and the factory of sadness remains open for another 2-3 seasons at least. The browns NEED continuity to turn the corner. As an outsider im always shocked by this from the Browns base. Yes the team has had bad coaches, i wouldnt label jackson as a bad coach considering the qb revolving door and the injuries.

 

Get a damn grip doom and gloomer coach firing bridage. Fire jackson and enjoy more mediocrity.

 

This team is so deficient in talent it's ridiculous. The FO made some serious mistakes letting a few of the talented guys walk.

 

Fire RG3? After one outing?

 

Could be a new low in Browns' fandom...

 

Make that 1-3\4 Tour. Plus the preseason.

[wargograw]

 

i'd rather have the farmer pettine era. just my opinion. the fans did to them what they want to do to jackson now..........so now who get's to pick and choose? a fucking stooler fan? you know talent like piss knows a bucket. like the browns FO. this FO whiffed on every WR they picked. farmer whiffed on every DB. so? 6 or one one half a dozen?

 

GTFO.

Bitterness is really bad for you.

[Zombo]

Only reason Haslam won't fire Hue is because he is black. If he were white he would be gone, guarfuckingteed.

Are you saying that Jimmy Harlem doesn't like white people?

 

Z