flyingfooldoug Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 We take the fall. Go Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1216 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 fire horton, hire pettine as DC? but in all seriousness, leave the FO as is for at least another year. The rookies weren't terrible today, when was the last time we could say that there were multiple rookies making an impact and looking like they will stick around in this league? Start Kessler once he's healthy and see what we have, hopefully the FO builds up the defense through next year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 If we fire hue, whos this "next man up" character? Cause frankly horton would prob not even be here again if it werent for hue. Who would our DC have been? Nobody wanted to fucking come here. Im still scratching my head why hue came. Think about that for a monent, we wouldnt even have been able to bring ray fucking horton in if it werent for hue. The browns are one more coach firing away from being relegated to div 3?coaches who are trying to get into div 2 coaching by having an nfl team on their resume. That is not hyperbole, most div 1 coaches have zero desire to cock up their career by coming to the browns for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Don't even talk about firing anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comical2me Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 When you consistently blow 1st half leads, that's coaching. Their team adjusted, ours didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 When you consistently blow 1st half leads, that's coaching. Their team adjusted, ours didn't. Wow 1st post and it's right on the money. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I woke up hoping "I had taken a fall" but no. Shon Coleman is still slotted out wide? Our Db's still cover off, than fall off. Our 1,2,3 strikes your out of Tackling & still a Taylor Dancing in my head..Not even a Tribe of Indians can stop me now...Am Going Fishin!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM Yes, let's fire the person who brought in Hue Jackson, not that you can fire the owner. There's only one way I quit on the Browns, and that's if they fire Hue Jackson. That will convince me that they have no clue how to build a team and don't have the patience or courage to see the plan through. I still maintain Hue is the best HC we've had since Belichick. This is just the worst team we've had since 1999. And how is this the worst draft in modern history? There are several Browns drafts we can point to that are worse than this one. Coleman, Nassib, Ogbah, and Kessler all look promising and potentially key contributors and the value of the other draftees are still to be determined. 2015 gave us Shelton and Johnson as key contributors. The 2014 draft gave us Bitonio and Kirksey, the only two players from that draft still on the roster. It also gave us two huge busts in Gilbert and Manziel. That was a far worse draft than the 2016 one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Tony Grossi recently reported that the browns coaching staff will be under the microscope the final 8 games to determine if any of the staff will be on the hot seat. Citing the defense in particular. Bad tackling and players being out of position, making the same mistakes they have made all year, Very poor adjustments both in halftime and during clock situations. the Defensive Scheme was and I quote grossi here "This scheme is garbage". Offensively the play calling has been questionable at best and downright incompetent at worst. Football fundamentals across all three phases have been completely lacking which all can blamed on the coaching staff.couple other points grossi made was that he believes a switch to the 4:3 defensive scheme would be a help. Absolutely will coaches INCLUDING Jackson be on the hot seat at the end of season if we have a poor record and have shown little to no improvement. he accepted the lack of Talent argument and said "Yes we dont have jj watt or patrick peterson but we are not playing fundamental football which can be blamed on the coaching staff"Well there you have the latest stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM Did you name a bust in that draft in Tour's thread? "The worst draft in modern history"? Do you hear yourself? You sound insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching. I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO... If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal. The league might well have to step in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching. I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected I disagree. DePodesta told Haslem 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,' Well he can't just cry 'I wanna get off this ride is too scary!' after agreeing to go this route. He needs to ride it out and it's going to take a few years. If they clean house again I will burn my jersey. No mistakes have been made. This roster has been gutted. This record is a result of the larger vision to rebuild the team properly. We hired exactly the right coach because he's got the intestinal fortitude to get more determined to win after every loss instead of slump his shoulders and give up (like Pettine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM Worst draft in modern history? SMH. Not even close. This ranks somewhere near the top of just browns draft classes. Or would you swap it for another round of Mingo-McFadden-Slaughter-Bryant-Gilkey from 2013? How about the one two punch of Richardson and Weeden? Cleveland's answer to Prescott and Elliott folks! Perhaps you're still on the Gilbert and Manziel bandwagon from 2014? Or are you pining instead for more Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and Owen Mariecic? Aside from Alex Mack, the 2009 draft consisted of Robiskie, Massequoi, Veikune, Maiava - top quality talent that took us to the playoffs again and again. I say these things not to rake over old coals, but to point out how stupid it is to say that this is the 'worst draft class in modern history' when it's not even close to the worst draft class in modern Cleveland history, let alone the rest of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching. I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO... If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal. The league might well have to step in... after losing out and showing limited to no improvement i wonder if you'll hold on to that argument... the league may well step in if we DONT become more competitive. there has been very very little improvement in the past 12 contests aswell there is no sense in wasting a year on a group of coaches who cant teach fundamentals. Our Front Office has been pretty on point we traded mingo and a 5th for colins and a COMP 3rd. We traded a pro bowl punter for ANOTHER pro bowl punter for a net gain. Almost all of the drafted players have made an impact or shown flashes of brilliance. Hell Kessler has a 65% comp rate and a QB Rating of 94+ best of the team. We have brought in some young talent to build with and we are failing in developing them. I dont want jackson to be fired i like his style and i like his enthusiasm. BUT if he doesn't perform you have to move on that's the nature of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year? 4-12 with improvement and competitive games Bear in mind this thread is about worse case scenario where we lose all our games without significant improvement Matt Patricia is my number one but i doubt he'll come into this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take. with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year? "Anybody else! Super Bowlz!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM You do know when those scouts were fired, their reports were already in the FO's hands? Probably not. Yeah- reportedly, a bunch of them wanted Wentz. The "philosophy" is pretty clear now- it's amass picks, build for the future. We used one of those amassed picks to pick up a potential top shelf LB, who's still pretty young. LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO... If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal. The league might well have to step in... For those who don't know yet LaCanfora hates the Browns. Yup, it was a tear down to the foundation, I was just hoping it wouldn't result in no wins. Getting a bunch of key injuries hasn't help much either. Coleman has played one game, Bitonio is out for the year, Haden has missed significant time, and is playing on one leg. Tour I agree, this is going to be a multi year rebuild. We'll just have to relax and try to not let the current suckage bother us too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching? I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way. that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again. to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem. I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%. long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Stand pat, nobody's getting fired. Horton may get a stern talking to on schemes, but he isn't going either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Who's taking the fall? Ghoolie.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again. to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem. I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%. long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core A losing mentality is continuing the same thing (firing constantly) when it clearly hasn't worked. The record of your side's idea (firing constantly) not working is ALOT longer than the record of my side not working (these 8 losses). So the racist drafted a white QB about 4 rounds too high (according to most), why exactly? I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns. Exactly.....this team doesn't have that much talent on it. Collins will help that on defense. For everyone who is saying look how great Wentz is and we passed that up. Look at his numbers from last night. 32-43 for 202, 6 yards per pass average. The dude is the ultimate captain check down. With the talent that team has, especially on defense, Kessler could put up those numbers. This team will not win until it can play defense and stop giving up 30+ per game. No team in the league can win giving up that many points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I am aware we don't have much talent but if you do not know how to freaking tackle then you should of been cut months ago. I saw players standing and watching other players either miss tackles or struggle to make a tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Wouldnt surprise me to see coaching changes, but I would be shocked if it was Hue.......look.....if Haslam fired Hue after this season, there is NO ONE that would agree to work for him or coach this team.....so no matter how poorly Hue or his team do, he's staying......guaranteed. All Haslams previous fuck ups have forced his hand here....he cannot do it again..... And in RE to everyone screaming it's just the D, lets get real and admit the D and the O are equally poor.... Basically....NFL median score is 24 pts a game...scored/allowed....thats the average.... Browns score 19 points a game.....5 pts below average Browns allow 29 points a game......5 pts below average... So we are....on average.....5 points worse on O and 5 points worse on D.....maling it a perfect wash for terrible on both sides of the ball.... and it confirms our 10 pts per game differential, which is the worst in the league....dead last.... Sooo.....Yeah, we gotta fix that D.....but we also gotta fix that O...... just the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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