hoorta Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 I can coach exactly as well as our current coaches have and lead the browns to an 0 and 9 start. if we end up going 0-20 which i don't think we will but it's possible we do. SOMEONE will be let go and it COULD be Hue Jackson. That is depending on who is available and more importantly wants to come in with this experimental FO. It wont likely be hue because of the advances on offense and energy we have seen this year good rushing offense and relatively safe offensive play. Playcalling has been a bit erratic and the silly line movements we do are just that but all in all on the O side we've seen some improvement. Defensively we have regressed in nearly every category and it's just not excusable anymore. As far as talent goes good coaching should show the strengths of the talent we do have even if it is lacking overall. Parity in the NFL as a whole is much much closer than you may realize. Also regarding talent the 1999 browns had only players that were considered freely expendable and the rookies we drafted that year... are you suggesting that the 1999 team was better than this current team? I'm much much more inline with Tour here in thinking upgraded positional coaches as well as coordinators would do absolute wonders for this team. Look at what Al Saunders has done with our depleted WR core or maybe what Kirby or Hal Hunter have done in improving our Running game though at the expense of Pass protection it would seem . Maybe a new DC and his new Staff maybe a full time OC AND an full time QB coach Horton is a different story Been fired X3 already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbaddawgjr Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Like a lot of guy's are saying keep the coaches and staff together. The talent and line sucks right now. I can really see them not winning at all this year. I can see them trading Haden and Thomas for more picks. Then stacking the team with players next year. I see this as a 3 to 5 year total rebuild, but I see it going in the right direction finally. Then when they look look they are close then they can spend on some high ticket free agents to fill those gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Coaching means little. Talent X experience wins. Disagree with that. Talent can help, obviously.....but so does coaching. Brown, Noll, Landry, Lombardi, Shula etc. made great players super, made good players great, made average players good, made below average players average....functional. Hue is working on it. Yes all these guys started out terribly: Walsh Jimmy Johnson Noll Landry and don't forget 4 out of 5 losing seasons here for Belichick. and I suspect there are others. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Some coaches are superstars. But it's mostly talent X experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 No need to warn war... he's not an idiot. And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning. I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out. ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy ... easy to? Complete the thought first... then hit "Post"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 pretty easy to get under your skin also my origanal post was meant for zombo he got it sent me a message and now it's over,but you had to make it all personnel and start name calling like your friend wargagraw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass. Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin. Hint: It does not look like the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So I'll presume anyone here that can say they are able to coach better is either a former or active coach at any level of position group for that matter...? No? Nobody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit... To a degree. But if you said in the spring "I'll give you Myles Garrett in the draft and you can give him a playbook but you're not allowed to coach him. Ever. OR I'll give you Joe 3 star 2nd team All-PAC 12 DE who is an ok player with about a 5th round grade and you can coach him all you want," I think I know where most coaches are going. This is the NFL. These guys have the general ideas on technique. You have nuance to learn, but with bad talent, nuance is just lipstick on a pig. As Alabama strength coach Scott Cochran says: "These guys are already Ferraris. We just put spinners on them." Urban Meyer's also said something like "I'm always amused when guys brag on themselves like it's not their players that do all the work. Guy'/ bragging about his zone scheme. Yeah, lemme give you a bunch of s*** players and let's see how good your zone scheme looks then." And those are college coaches. Even more true in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college. Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball. Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Work ethic and character factor into talent for the sake of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 I'm not on the 0-16 train anymore. Had the Dolphins beat. Everyone stays, at least through next year.Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach.If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two. The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college. Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball. Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE. Right on brother! It's truly a coaches league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 So are all Asst. Coaches created equal or do we already have the best at every position? I've got no idea how to measure that.. all we can do is look at their prior stops and see how roughly the same players performed before/after that coach was there. PFF grades only measure the final result which is ultimately a sum of the two - this isn't Madden where you (could? I haven't played Madden in years) know the breakdown of what 90 game rating was "coach driven" and what was "player improvement from the prior baseline regardless of coach". Also within the above sum : We'd need to benchmark the baseline coach driven and the baseline player improvement to see who is improving at an average level [eg, "set expectations"] and who is outperforming the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass. Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin. Hint: It does not look like the above. ya I have checked around and have determined that you are not worth my time wasting a post on you so carry on and enjoy your circle jerks with wargago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Can not fire hue Jackson. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Getting pretty close guys only 9 more to go. Horton on the block? Is it hue? Is this why the raiders let him go? If we go 0-20 what's the chances of us signing any free agent talent? Better yet what are the chances Draft Picks start declining to play for us? Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland. The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Horton should be hearing "Who....you gonna coach for next year" It may not be in Cleveland. The defense has been bad......both talent wise and coaching wise. I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I know we've axed a few head coaches mid season and did the interim thing. When was the last OC or DC that got canned midseason? Fire Horton so he can spend the holidays in the Crib? Or make him suffer the season too? No. Keep him here.....let him suffer through this mess....partially of his own making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 One last time... Ain't no fall going to be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Stop trying to run coaches off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Exactly. I can't find any egregious mistakes and I don't see a scapegoat. I think we all realized we were in for a rocky road and this is what we're getting. Every game has had some exciting parts and every game, for the most part, has been within reach. If anything we missed on Carson Wentz but remember the first guy taking Jared Goff is nothing to write home about. I never liked RG3 but at one time he could have been Elite. Unfortunately he never got back to form. When this new bunch of kids finally gets there feet underneath them I think they will show marked improvement over the next year or two. The organization has never seemed to be the cluster fuck it was with Mike Pettine and Ray Farmer at odds with each other. WSS has goff even been given a chance yet...i don't think so...they have a fucked up coach with an ego and continues to play a loser qb...i don't think we know anything about goff yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 One last time... Ain't no fall going to be taken. Correction, the fan base takes the fall every year. Cleveland Browns 2017 "Wait Til Next Year Bitches, We Be Good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Only 8 more games... at this rate i'm thinking we may see a coaching/front office change at the bye week...rumor has it hue has begun to have his control of the roster limited . Also hue has been increasingly involved defense leading to a growing rift between him and horton but hey you get what you get when you pick a coach for his looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'd typically say the blame is squarely on the fans but they are starting to come around. The stadium was pretty empty for game 8 and Hue was asked the question in his postgame presser. What is really needed is a chorus of boos when the shit goes south, bags over heads and banners saying "Jimmy Go Take A Flyer" or "FBI: Failing Browns Inevitable". Until this becomes uncomfortable nothing will change. I don't think Hue is a bad coach but no other franchise will be asking to meet with him in the offseason for an opening. And as a few of us in here will admit, the team is talentless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 What did the Browns accomplish today? McCown threw for over 300 yards in a loss! We still don't know who our QB of the future is? Is playing McCown over Hogan the smart thing to do? We won't win any games with that defense so why not see what Kessler and Higan have to offer. What are they waiting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 What did the Browns accomplish today? McCown threw for over 300 yards in a loss! We still don't know who our QB of the future is? Is playing McCown over Hogan the smart thing to do? We won't win any games with that defense so why not see what Kessler and Higan have to offer. What are they waiting for? Or Hogan has to offerI wouldn't mind losing if the Browns Front Office was moving in the right direction or was developing an identity! They have no identity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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