***Official Browns @ Eagles Game Day Thread***

[wargograw]

The general temperature of the fans gets factored into decisions, especially around here. You want to hide behind this "the FO hasn't asked my opinion" crap like that's the only way you can affect their decision making.

[gftChris]

Ups and Downs. Plenty of downs. Let's see:

 

Rough first quarter. No pressure on the rookie QB, and pass D non existent. Down

Good response and adjustments in the second quarter from the D. Up

A couple of big plays on O in that second quarter. Up.

Still went in at the half down 13-7. Down.

Came out quite strong after the half with a good drive, putting points on the board, then got the stop immediately and got the ball back. We looked like a mediocre football team... Biggest Up.

Cam Erving happened. Down.

Our D played worse and worse afterwards. Down

Our O couldn't get anything going. Down

We were stuck with poor field position all day, with our O going 3 and out, or 5 and out, and our D not doing the same to them. Down

Our run game actually wasn't horrible - 15 rushes from Duke and Crow for 84 yards, (5.6 ypc), and RG3 picked up good yards on the ground. Up

Our passing game was horrible. Two big plays to Pryor and Coleman, combined for 102 yards. Outside of that, RG3 was 10-24, for 88 yards. Biggest down

Carl Nassib and Ogbah showed up, look like they will be contributors. Up

Our DL didn't look much, and we let them get off some big runs, particularly Barner. Down

Our pass D was horrible. Literally abysmal. We will get absolutely shredded, and that's *if* Haden can stay healthy. If not, look out for opposition offenses not even having to take advantage of our leaky run D. Down.

No stupid penalties - 12 men on the field, illegal formation etc. Well, one, Pryor lining up 6 inches too far forward - I'll let him off that if he learns from it. Up

Tackling. Or rather, lack of. A lot of times we were in position to make a tackle (up!) but didn't wrap up. It looks like we have about 4 players who can tackle properly and they're DBs and ILBs. Down

 

It's going to be a long season, folks. Our pass D is starting off bad, outside of about 20 minutes (second quarter and early third). Our pas O is worse at the moment. Our run game is ok, actually, but that won't last if we can't get something going through the air.

 

I *hope* that by about game 6 or 7, we start to actually look like a team that has what it takes to play in this league, otherwise we'll see a lot of trading back in next year's draft and picking up a lot more players.

[flyingfooldoug]

I did see a Sumo wrestler on our D line. That didn't work too well though. Maybe we should try a few Amish guys on the team now. They're about as tough a group as you can get. I live in NE Ohio and the pitchforks and torches are getting broke out early. I wonder what the anal guys are thinking now? ohh, I know....lets raise ticket prices. Throw da bums out now and hire some clown from the woods. He couldn't do much worse

[miktoxic]

 

I'm more interested in watching the opposition at this point. I took off work tomorrow, watching all the throws from Robert right now.

 

Vintage Jim Schwartz. He might be one of the very best in the league at creating pressure with four man fronts and getting creative with as little blitzing as possible.

He was very ready for a lot of the tells on our formations, personnel groupings and patterns. To the point where defenders early on are just watching RG3's eyes and falling off assignments very early.

 

I like coach Horton, I respect his designs. Schwartz was the guy I wanted though and it sucks seeing Philly's defense could actually take a step forward in year 1.

 

hell, i liked schwartz as a HC candidate.

 

i say pull mangini out of retirement, have pettine run the D and hue the offense, no wait.

[gumby73]

poor little gumby....still the iq of a vegetable...

 

 

poor little gumhead...he thought that fake punt was a great call...heheheheee...fucking moron thinks our oline is good...what a football moron .....

Yoa, "I only Bitch52". My positive post will be here weekly. Don't ask someones opinion, than make it that i said anything about "great or good"..You are the pricks on this board that just got my attention All 17 Weeks..Enjoy the Ride..I will..

[flyingfooldoug]

Yoa, "I only Bitch52". My positive post will be here weekly. Don't ask someones opinion, than make it that i said anything about "great or good"..You are the pricks on this board that just got my attention All 17 Weeks..Enjoy the Ride..I will..

 

I admire your optimism Gumby. You can at least escape the negativity. Here the fans are getting squirrely...with cause. I want to see them win too. Go in the hardware store, circle k or any store or shop and it's pitchfork and torch burning time. At least the weather is good, the Tribe is good, the Cavs should be. You need to be about 30 to remember the Browns as anything other than the NFL jv squad. Dee is running around town having sex in the back seat of the limo while Jimmy drives...oh the fun! at least in NC they like to talk civil war battles, but that don't happen here.

[miktoxic]

circle k? haven't seen one of those since i left po-dunk az.

[TexasAg1969]

circle k? haven't seen one of those since i left po-dunk az.

I think you have that confused with circle-j mik.

[flyingfooldoug]

circle k? haven't seen one of those since i left po-dunk az.

Welcome to podunk oh mik. There are 2 of em within 3 miles of me. At one time they were Lawson stores.....back in the days of real Cleveland Browns football and redcap beer. Its so bad now that even the stool fans say good luck and mean it when I wear Browns gear. That is the bottom of the barrel for me

[flyingfooldoug]

I think you have that confused with circle-j mik.

Something unique to Texas?

[Canton Dawg]

While getting a rare Monday off from work, I was listening to Cleveland sports radio this morning.

 

It was at 7:15 the station received its first "fire Hue" caller.

 

I don't care who the HC is, but damn we can't keep firing coaches every year or two.

[Browns1216]

let's say the Browns had drafted Wentz. Do you honestly think he would have looked that good on the Browns behind a shitty O-line and with our receiver corps? Part of the reason Wentz looked so good is because our secondary is shit and he wasn't constantly on the run from our guys bringing pressure. Nassib, Ogbah and Kirksey had some moments but it takes more than 1 or 2 good plays to win.

 

I get what the new FO is trying to do but I'm getting very impatient, getting very sick of building for the future instead of building for now. The Browns are more than just 1 QB away. The Browns need good offensive and defensive linemen, a good secondary (Tramon Williams can't keep up with anyone anymore and Haden is not getting any younger), and some linebackers that can actually pressure a QB. Offense seems a bit further along (I know I know, not one first down in the 1st quarter but hear me out), Crowell was finding gaps and I saw him make a few good blocks that bought RG3 some time, and I like the long passes to Coleman and Pryor. I think the playmakers are there, they just need to get the timing between QB and receivers worked out. Once RG3 gets injured and McCown takes over I think there will be lots of improvement on that side of the ball, at least McCown could get first downs.

[miktoxic]

my point is these rebuilds shouldn't take this long. i mean 1999? there has to be some meat on the bone from other regimes where the new regime just doesn't throw it all out and then start from scratch. amazing how the good teams might be thin one year at a position, draft or acquire and then they are back on top. yet the browns franchise just can't figure it out?

[gftChris]

I'm getting very impatient, getting very sick of building for the future instead of building for now.

OK, fine, I get that...

The Browns are more than just 1 QB away. The Browns need good offensive and defensive linemen, a good secondary (Tramon Williams can't keep up with anyone anymore and Haden is not getting any younger), and some linebackers that can actually pressure a QB.

...which means it's going to take a couple of years to turn it around. There's no real difference between 'building for the future' and 'building for now' apart from maybe one or two older players who are currently slightly better taking reps away from younger players who will probably be better at the end of the season. See Campbell/Whitner, Schobert/Kruger etc.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Welcome to podunk oh mik. There are 2 of em within 3 miles of me. At one time they were Lawson stores.....back in the days of real Cleveland Browns football and redcap beer. Its so bad now that even the stool fans say good luck and mean it when I wear Browns gear. That is the bottom of the barrel for me

They have a circle K at the Marathon about 3 miles from here. They have Lawsons and Circle K in Japan also, along with 7/11.

[Unsympathetic]

Those are bad examples.. Whitner and Kruger would not earn time on a team that had any talent behind them.

 

The only reason Kruger has a job right now is because the Saints have found ways to be worse than the Browns at defense. Not coincidentally, they were led by RobRyan for the last 3 years.

[flyingfooldoug]

They have a circle K at the Marathon about 3 miles from here. They have Lawsons and Circle K in Japan also, along with 7/11.

Kinda funny but there hasn't been a 7/11 around here in years. Circle Ks are about it now for stand alone stores...with or without gas pumps. All the other convenience type shops are gas stations too.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Kinda funny but there hasn't been a 7/11 around here in years. Circle Ks are about it now for stand alone stores...with or without gas pumps. All the other convenience type shops are gas stations too.

Go down south, there is one about every mile or so. Also CA has a shit load. There are a few around here.

[nickers]

Kinda funny but there hasn't been a 7/11 around here in years. Circle Ks are about it now for stand alone stores...with or without gas pumps. All the other convenience type shops are gas stations too.

Theres one on 185th st. in Cleveland ,just north of Muldoons..

[One Post]

Go down south, there is one about every mile or so. Also CA has a shit load. There are a few around here.

We have Circle K over here. They bought out the local Wareco. They're open 24/7 and while I'm feeling chatty let me tell you something it's been bugging me.

 

I'm in manager training right now for six weeks I'm in week four starting this afternoon. I was opening for three weeks now I close for three weeks. I have to work 10 and a half hrs a day. Minimum of 50 hrs a week I get Sundays and Tuesdays off...anyway..

 

Driving from my small town into the city is a 45 minute trip. When I open the store I have to be there at 4:30 am so I get up at 3 am. Ok I stop at the Circle K and they guy working is smoking outside the gas station. I do my meds before I leave for work and need carbs to maintain my blood sugar level. So...I go into the store I'm waiting at the counter, he finally comes in talking on his cell phone and gives me the "hold on a sec finger"

 

I pay for my things and prepay my gas and told him I'll never be back and he's a lazy MFer.

[Browns1216]

I'm getting very impatient, getting very sick of building for the future instead of building for now.

OK, fine, I get that...

The Browns are more than just 1 QB away. The Browns need good offensive and defensive linemen, a good secondary (Tramon Williams can't keep up with anyone anymore and Haden is not getting any younger), and some linebackers that can actually pressure a QB.

...which means it's going to take a couple of years to turn it around. There's no real difference between 'building for the future' and 'building for now' apart from maybe one or two older players who are currently slightly better taking reps away from younger players who will probably be better at the end of the season. See Campbell/Whitner, Schobert/Kruger etc.

Right, what I"m saying to all of the people who are lamenting the fact we didn't get Wentz, is that drafting Wentz would not have made a difference on this team. I get why the FO traded down for more picks in this year's draft. I think the guys they drafted will turn out OK, didn't see any glaring busts yet but it's only 1 game. I want to see some progress this year once all of these rookies get more accustomed to the NFL, meaning I want to see wins now. Not next year, not 2-3 years down the road when we fire this coach and start from scratch again, but now. It would be nice to win more than 4 games a season.

[jiggins7919]

Guys, I just hate this crap. I HATE IT.

 

In a previous post I made last week, I stated that we would lose this game because "It just makes too much sense." The Browns losing to the QB that "wasn't good enough" and wouldn't be "in the top 20" that we could've drafted made too much sense. It would become a fantastic story line, and one that would make the sporting world laugh at us hysterically. Boy, was I right. Not only did we lose, but we lost in glorious fashion. Our QB looked terrible. Even the two long balls were awful. Pryor pushed off, and Coleman's ball was thrown into triple coverage. Everyone in the universe knew that we'd kick a FG after Coleman's catch, and we should've kicked a FG after Pryor's but got saved by pass interference.

 

Carson Wentz will have his fair share of struggles this year, as virtually all rookies do. But here's the thing, if Wentz turns into viable starting QB, or god forbid a SUPERSTAR, then our front office is doomed. I'm telling you now, if we blew the chance at getting a franchise QB, our management team is gone. Now, this is ONE GAME, and nobody is anointing Wentz the next Big Ben. But here's what I can tell you: I've never, and I mean NEVER heard of a rookie QB missing the last 3 preseason games, not being the starter in OTA's or minicamp, practicing ONE WEEK before the start of the season, and winning the first game.

 

RG III was awful and I hate it. Yes, it's week 1, but let's remember this: NOBODY ELSE WANTED HIM as a starter. Hue Jackson wants everyone to trust him, but why should they? He drafted Cody Kessler. Cody freaking Kessler. And while nobody is calling him a bust, I think it's safe to say that nobody is predicting him to EVER be "the man" for us.

 

We had no first downs in the first quarter. I'm all excited about football, and those assholes come out looking like pieces of shit. If we're going to absolutely suck, why not play Kessler? What do we have to lose? Let's see if he has what it takes! What do we gain by playing RG III? Are we hoping that he magically turns into a drop back QB? That he magically develops an internal clock?

 

RG III missed Hawkins in the end zone for a TOUCHDOWN. You can't miss those throws. Jesus man. What's worse? It's pretty much the same throw that Wentz made for TD's. He made it TWICE.

 

Yeah, I knew we'd be bad this year. I really did. But fuck this team. Screw them for a fake punt that everyone is laughing at. Screw them for dropping four passes. Screw them for SNAPPING THE BALL TO NIGERIA.

[gftChris]

Right, what I"m saying to all of the people who are lamenting the fact we didn't get Wentz, is that drafting Wentz would not have made a difference on this team. I get why the FO traded down for more picks in this year's draft. I think the guys they drafted will turn out OK, didn't see any glaring busts yet but it's only 1 game. I want to see some progress this year once all of these rookies get more accustomed to the NFL, meaning I want to see wins now. Not next year, not 2-3 years down the road when we fire this coach and start from scratch again, but now. It would be nice to win more than 4 games a season.

Yep it would be nice to see wins sooner rather than later, but I don't think a lot of wins are coming our way this season. I agree, between coleman, ogbah and nassib we have three good looking top draft picks that are already starters and should be for years to come. Kindred also looks good, and Schobert is already starting. So that's 5 players with important roles as rookies and not looking too shabby. We get another similar amount of solid starters from next year's draft and we are suddenly looking very competitive.

 

There's a long way to go but I feel good about this front office. Then again, I did about ray farmer and mike pettine, so who knows.

[nickers]

Thy can fire Hue,Horton and RG3.. Ive seen enough..

[Unsympathetic]

Optimism:

 

Scooby will start over Davis next year

Pryor will be a solid #3 all year long

Rookies made the team because talent on the Browns roster simply doesn't exist yet

We'll still be #1 or #2 in next year's draft no matter what happens

Schobert and Ogbah will both be solid, as will Orchard who is set to be a starter-level injury backup for us -- until OLB is improved in the draft, hopefully next year as well

[gftChris]

Thy can fire Hue,Horton and RG3.. Ive seen enough..

After one game...genius.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

my point is these rebuilds shouldn't take this long. i mean 1999? there has to be some meat on the bone from other regimes where the new regime just doesn't throw it all out and then start from scratch. amazing how the good teams might be thin one year at a position, draft or acquire and then they are back on top. yet the browns franchise just can't figure it out?

[miktoxic]

donnie whalberg? really?

 

band of brothers.

 

 

maurice starr promoted and managed those guys and new edition when i was at ft. devens. my best friends sister used to go out with him. she also used to blow me in my celica gts.

 

small world.

[calfoxwc]

Here's what I think. Getting a qb the last draft with the top pick, would not have

helped this team like the trade down did.

 

Personally, I still would have drafted Wentz.... but the guys they got from trading down help the

team immensely.

 

Here's why - the Browns all these years, started off on the wrong foot, with no youth foundation.

The Browns have kept adding veterans, and made pizzpoor choices of draft picks.

 

The foundation of the team has been weak for years. You keep adding some veterans, and poor draft picks...

and you still have a crap foundation.

 

Like a house. You can add all the fancy building up top, but if the foundation is bad, it sinks one way, breaks another,

and the whole house sucks.

 

Once, JUST THIS ONCE, it was time to fix the foundation. And not even Wentz would be fixing it.

They had to rebuild the foundation. Then, hopefully, they can start building a winning house that will

last over the years, just adding a piece here, a piece there.

 

But pieces here and there can't win by themselves. "A house built on weak and shifting sands cannot stand".

 

That's why all that money spent on defense still didn't work. Mack wanted out, I assume they wanted out because

it was just hopeless. The foundation (the overal talent level) never gets fixed. It's been a disaster for so long, either

you wait for five drafts, or you trade down and get a lot of problems fixed in one draft. WR...LB...DL...

 

I see a different team now, for the first time. Just because it hasn't taken off yet... ONE GAME?

 

The two areas that concern me are the secondary, and qb. RGIII may turn out to be a star. Or, he just doesn't have

it as far as seeing the field and making reads fast enough. He played like CRAP the first game. We'll see if that

continues. If it does, Hue may as well admit later that McCown needs to take over the reins, and draft a qb

next draft.

 

But the Browns fought like hell in that game. They mean business. I used to see "just going through the motions who cares"...

 

Josh Cribbs talked a few years ago, about the Browns having undisciplined,

selfish, lazy players that were bringing down the guys who left it all on the field and desperately wanted to win because

they love the game. And THAT was before manziel and gilbert.

 

The criteria for drafting in the past ignored work ethic, character, intelligence/football IQ/instincts and*love for the game*. If you added this criteria,

you would NEVER have drafted jm, gilbert, gordon, richardson.... the list is long.

[nickers]

Here's what I think. Getting a qb the last draft with the top pick, would not have

helped this team like the trade down did.

 

Personally, I still would have drafted Wentz.... but the guys they got from trading down help the

team immensely.

 

Here's why - the Browns all these years, started off on the wrong foot, with no youth foundation.

The Browns have kept adding veterans, and made pizzpoor choices of draft picks.

 

The foundation of the team has been weak for years. You keep adding some veterans, and poor draft picks...

and you still have a crap foundation.

 

Like a house. You can add all the fancy building up top, but if the foundation is bad, it sinks one way, breaks another,

and the whole house sucks.

 

Once, JUST THIS ONCE, it was time to fix the foundation. And not even Wentz would be fixing it.

They had to rebuild the foundation. Then, hopefully, they can start building a winning house that will

last over the years, just adding a piece here, a piece there.

 

But pieces here and there can't win by themselves. "A house built on weak and shifting sands cannot stand".

 

That's why all that money spent on defense still didn't work. Mack wanted out, I assume they wanted out because

it was just hopeless. The foundation (the overal talent level) never gets fixed. It's been a disaster for so long, either

you wait for five drafts, or you trade down and get a lot of problems fixed in one draft. WR...LB...DL...

 

I see a different team now, for the first time. Just because it hasn't taken off yet... ONE GAME?

 

The two areas that concern me are the secondary, and qb. RGIII may turn out to be a star. Or, he just doesn't have

it as far as seeing the field and making reads fast enough. He played like CRAP the first game. We'll see if that

continues. If it does, Hue may as well admit later that McCown needs to take over the reins, and draft a qb

next draft.

 

But the Browns fought like hell in that game. They mean business. I used to see "just going through the motions who cares"...

 

Josh Cribbs talked a few years ago, about the Browns having undisciplined,

selfish, lazy players that were bringing down the guys who left it all on the field and desperately wanted to win because

they love the game. And THAT was before manziel and gilbert.

 

The criteria for drafting in the past ignored work ethic, character, intelligence/football IQ/instincts and*love for the game*. If you added this criteria,

you would NEVER have drafted jm, gilbert, gordon, richardson.... the list is long.

Cal.. just stop man.. you and 20 people say the same damn thing.. year in.. year out.. This team is garbage.. Im tired of rebuilding.. get a fucking QB for christ sakes and move on..