Draft Talk

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

.... benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

That sounds painfully familiar.

[wargograw]

 

 

Jackson is a bad passer - Kelly isn't that much better. Kelly benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

 

Yeah, Ole Miss has the most badass group of receivers in the country and it's been that way three years running, unfortunately.

[The Gipper]

 

 

Jackson is a bad passer - Kelly isn't that much better. Kelly benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

Walter Football rates him a 2d-3rd rounder

CBS Sports has him as a 1st-2d

SBNation has him the same

Rivals.com ranks him the #3 QB available behind Watson/Kaaya

NFLdraftscouts has him the best senior available

[The Gipper]

 

Yeah, Ole Miss has the most badass group of receivers in the country and it's been that way three years running, unfortunately.

Yet, even without those guys, Kelly almost pulled it off vs. Alabama and that perennial "great defense" And it wasn't his fault that the team lost.....as noted, he put up 43 points on them.

You can't sneeze at that.

 

Again, I say, worth a look.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Walter Football rates him a 2d-3rd rounder

CBS Sports has him as a 1st-2d

SBNation has him the same

Rivals.com ranks him the #3 QB available behind Watson/Kaaya

NFLdraftscouts has him the best senior available

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

 

 

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

 

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

[medicineman]

I am sick of hearing about the next draft. we are 3 games in to the season. I am not getting any younger, I want to enjoy some wins now. what happens after we draft all new players? It takes a few seasons to get them to adjust so there is more losing seasons. No other team has ever had rhis many losing seasons and if we keep bringing in a new coach every other fucking year, who will want to draft the guys he wants and get rid of the players that another coach brought in........................WE WILL NEVER WIN SHIT. Every year they get us hyped up to look like the joke of the NFL. Am I the only 1 who is sick of this? With all you guys so exited about the draft (that is like 10 months away) ...........................Oh and while I am on the rant I am just going to throw in a shout of FUCK YOU to all the Pisspuke trolls on here

[wargograw]

Yet, even without those guys, Kelly almost pulled it off vs. Alabama and that perennial "great defense" And it wasn't his fault that the team lost.....as noted, he put up 43 points on them.

You can't sneeze at that.

 

Again, I say, worth a look.

 

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them. They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

 

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

[TexasAg1969]

 

 

57% doesn't have to be impressive to you, nor should it be. It's a statline average from his two worst games, and it's the only one you pulled apart as a detracting point...which means that the rest of the stats he posted in his worst two games were still respectable stats.

 

You showed me yours, I'll show you mine -

 

SO 13 games - 210 completions, 334 attempts, 62.9%, 2,880 yards, 21 TD, 10 INT, 150.1 rating......as a sophomore.

 

I liked Prescott as well, but he's not going to be our QB. It's over.

 

Kizer is equally talented, plays in a similar spread offensive philosophy and has posted very similar career stats in terms of accuracy, (62.7 vs 62.8), rating (154.6 vs 146), and Y/A (8.0 vs 8.8). Plus he's a larger frame (6'2 vs 6'5), equally as talented athletically, and is a very intelligent and well-spoken man. I really don't see the fuss, other than the patented "take a stand for no reason and blindly stick to it" which is prevalent across this board.

 

If he shows all that well the rest of the year I would have no problem changing my mind.

[The Gipper]

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

 

 

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

How insensate of you. There are 130 FBS college football teams. That makes about 65 games each Saturday that are played. I have neither the time nor inclination to watch them all. As a mere fan, yes, I rely on various services that are paid to do those things to provide information that hopefully I can rely upon to be somewhat accurate, or at least intelligible. You don't?

 

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

But our FO has multiple well paid staff members to do their scouting.

[The Gipper]

 

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them.

A little light on reading comprehension? We are talking about Chad Kelly and Ole Miss this year. Ketchup, baby tomato before you get squashed. "Those guys" that I am referring to are all those receivers that were on the Ole Miss team the last few years that are now graduated.

 

They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

Are? or Were? Again, I am saying that the likes of Laquon Treadwell and others have graduated. Now...does he have a new group of outstanding WRs? Maybe, They have a couple of guys that may be OK...i.e. draftable mid to late rounds. But, for SEC WRs...in checking I see that LSU has a couple of WRs that rate in the top 100 overall prospects.

And yes, I have to look this shit up on the internet That is what smart people do. I do not have a staff of scouts at my beck and call.

 

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

Name a succesful QB in history, NFL or otherwise that did not have his receivers making huge plays?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

 

 

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

How insensate of you. There are 130 FBS college football teams. That makes about 65 games each Saturday that are played. I have neither the time nor inclination to watch them all. As a mere fan, yes, I rely on various services that are paid to do those things to provide information that hopefully I can rely upon to be somewhat accurate, or at least intelligible. You don't?

 

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

But our FO has multiple well paid staff members to do their scouting.

 

 

 

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

 

 

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

 

 

 

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them.

A little light on reading comprehension? We are talking about Chad Kelly and Ole Miss this year. Ketchup, baby tomato before you get squashed. "Those guys" that I am referring to are all those receivers that were on the Ole Miss team the last few years that are now graduated.

 

They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

Are? or Were? Again, I am saying that the likes of Laquon Treadwell and others have graduated. Now...does he have a new group of outstanding WRs? Maybe, They have a couple of guys that may be OK...i.e. draftable mid to late rounds. But, for SEC WRs...in checking I see that LSU has a couple of WRs that rate in the top 100 overall prospects.

And yes, I have to look this shit up on the internet That is what smart people do. I do not have a staff of scouts at my beck and call.

 

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

Name a succesful QB in history, NFL or otherwise that did not have his receivers making huge plays?

 

 

 

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

 

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

 

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

 

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

[The Gipper]

 

 

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

 

Well, as noted, since I am not paid to do "film study" or any such thing, I watch like Ohio State, and maybe another big game or so. Then I see the highlights And sometimes I have a life where I am doing things with my wife and family and friends, so no, I don't have time to study college football all day and night on Saturday.

So, if you want to form your own scouting service and post in on this forum....I will be glad to read it.

 

 

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

 

 

 

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

OK, I will take your word for it. I have only seen bits and pieces of their games. That is why I asked "what about this guy"....who IS rated highly by paid scouts. If you disagree with them on their ratings....fine. Tell the Browns.

 

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

 

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

And he is a college player. Has he no ability to grow and improve?

 

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

Well, now you have to try to go into the mind of Hue Jackson. He picked Cody Kessler when a lot of services ranked him as a UDFA 7th rounder at best.

Who do YOU trust? Hue, the ratings services, or yourself?

(no, I don't trust myself, that is not my area of expertise...but you profess that it is your area)

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

 

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

 

Well, as noted, since I am not paid to do "film study" or any such thing, I watch like Ohio State, and maybe another big game or so. Then I see the highlights And sometimes I have a life where I am doing things with my wife and family and friends, so no, I don't have time to study college football all day and night on Saturday.

So, if you want to form your own scouting service and post in on this forum....I will be glad to read it.

 

 

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

 

 

 

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

OK, I will take your word for it. I have only seen bits and pieces of their games. That is why I asked "what about this guy"....who IS rated highly by paid scouts. If you disagree with them on their ratings....fine. Tell the Browns.

 

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

 

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

And he is a college player. Has he no ability to grow and improve?

 

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

Well, now you have to try to go into the mind of Hue Jackson. He picked Cody Kessler when a lot of services ranked him as a UDFA 7th rounder at best.

Who do YOU trust? Hue, the ratings services, or yourself?

(no, I don't trust myself, that is not my area of expertise...but you profess that it is your area)

 

 

I trust myself - that's really it. Kessler is a welcome surprise to the extent that I didn't expect him to do so well in his first start, but the game he put together is not far unlike what he was projected to do in the NFL. Make safe, smart throws. I don't see him driving any deep outs this season, and I think Hue & Co. would do well to never include that route as a legitimate read.

 

Sure, Kelly has room to improve. All prospects do. However, its much harder to improve your temperament and decision-making than it is to improve your footwork and mechanics. Taking a prospect isn't about taking the perfect guy just as its not about eliminating everyone who isn't perfect. It's simply about finding out which aspects of a prospect's game are important to the success of your offense, and then finding the prospect who possesses those certain skills.

 

A perfect Hue prospect wouldn't be a perfect Garrett prospect. A perfect McCarthy prospect isn't a perfect Belichick prospect. So, yes, Kelly has room to improve. But the things he lacks in are things that Hue seemingly puts his emphasis on, which doesn't make him a natural fit. I could see Kelly working out in a vertical, Erhardt-Perkins-esque offense. Kelly would probably be a great Chud QB.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I'm going to agree with TCPO on this one kelly does not look like a natural fit for our offense or the type of QB Hue is looking into. That being said we could still take him in the hopes of developing him.

[miktoxic]

so is it worth looking at a QB next year or no? is there a projected franchise guy coming out in the '18 draft?

 

that's why these missed picks fucking hurt so bad. miss on a diamond and draft a cubic zirconia.

[LogicIsForSquares]

so is it worth looking at a QB next year or no? is there a projected franchise guy coming out in the '18 draft?

 

that's why these missed picks fucking hurt so bad. miss on a diamond and draft a cubic zirconia.

I think it is a matter of seeing what Kessler has this year. I would really like him to turn into a good QB so then the first round can be about finding a pass rusher or, god forbid, best available player.

[Tour2ma]

I think it is a matter of seeing what Kessler has this year. I would really like him to turn into a good QB so then the first round can be about finding a pass rusher or, god forbid, best available player.

 

Don't forget Hogan... I expect he'll audition as well.

[Unsympathetic]

Called this one [article re Malik Hooker] over a week ago - he'd look great with our Eagles pick.

 

"Hooker's skill set is the best he's seen from a safety since Eric Berry"

[LogicIsForSquares]

 

Don't forget Hogan... I expect he'll audition as well.

I am sure he will as well. Would be nice if the QB of the future is currently on the roster.

[wargograw]

 

 

 

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them.

A little light on reading comprehension? We are talking about Chad Kelly and Ole Miss this year. Ketchup, baby tomato before you get squashed. "Those guys" that I am referring to are all those receivers that were on the Ole Miss team the last few years that are now graduated.

 

They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

Are? or Were? Again, I am saying that the likes of Laquon Treadwell and others have graduated. Now...does he have a new group of outstanding WRs? Maybe, They have a couple of guys that may be OK...i.e. draftable mid to late rounds. But, for SEC WRs...in checking I see that LSU has a couple of WRs that rate in the top 100 overall prospects.

And yes, I have to look this shit up on the internet That is what smart people do. I do not have a staff of scouts at my beck and call.

 

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

Name a succesful QB in history, NFL or otherwise that did not have his receivers making huge plays?

Treadwell and Core are the only ones gone. Stringfellow, Lodge, Adeboyejo off the top of my head are all still spectacular.

[The Gipper]

Treadwell and Core are the only ones gone. Stringfellow, Lodge, Adeboyejo off the top of my head are all still spectacular.

Spectacular? I guess it depends on your perspective. CBS has Stringfellow rated 15th best WR coming out next year.....about a 4th rounder. (was Vince Mayle spectacular?)

 

Attaboyo is 28th best...6th or 7th round.

 

Lets just say that with Pryor, Coleman, Gordon, Higgins, Payton, Hawkins etc. etc. on the Browns....WR is not going to be their draft focus.

Kelly as a QB could be. He is rated the 30th overall prospect....a late first rounder. Far higher than his WRs.

And you know how things are. A year ago at this time Carson Wentz was considered maybe a 3rd, 4th round pick. He could slide up...like Wentz, or sure, he could slide down.....like a Hackenberg did.

Nevertheless, for now, Kelly is considered a better prospect than his receivers.

[The Gipper]

The Best rated....in terms of 2017 draft prospects per CBS....classes of WRs next year would be:

 

Clemson Mike Williams rated #2 best WR...1st round; and Artavis Scott rankee #5 ...as 2d rounder

 

LSU: Malachi Dupre ranked #7 rounds 2-3; and Travan Dural #14 round 3-4

 

Oregon: Darren Carrington #8 round 2-3, and Devan Allen #22 5th rounder

 

Texas A&M: Speedy Noll #20 round 4-5; Josh Reynolds #23 round 5

 

All of these are considered to be higher ranked WR schools in the next draft over Ole Miss.....for now

 

But, again, why are we talking WR?

[The Gipper]

Actual areas of possible need on offense and who is rated where:

 

QBs

1. DeShaun Watson Clemson #2 overall prospect 1st round

2. DeShone Kizer Notre Dame #6 overall 1st round

3. Brad Kaaya Miami Fla. #15 1st

4. Chad Kelly Ole Miss #30 1st

5. Mason Rudolph OK State #65 3rd round

 

OTs:

1. Cam Robinson Alabama #12 overall 1st rd.

2. Roderick Johnson FSU #20 1st

3. Mike McGlinchey Notre Dame #24 1st

4. Adam Bisnowaty Pitt #40 1-2 round

5. Chad Wheeler W. Va #64 round 2-3

 

OCs:

1. Pal Elfwein Ohio St. #50 overall 2d. round

2. Ethan Pocic LSU #55 2d rd.

3. Mason Cole Michigan #76 3rd

4. Tyler Orlosky W VA. #115 3-4

5. Kyle Fuller Baylor #155 4th-5th

 

These are primary areas of need on offense....Fair to say?

 

On Defense....it is a wide open field. DL/LB/DB all in play for high picks.

[CaineDeSoulis]

watson and jackson have looked pretty bad so far against each other >.<

[CaineDeSoulis]

Anybody see this Mitch Trubisky QB? Tony grossi said something about him being a sleeper qb the other day and he just had a huge game against a ranked opponent he's also a local kid from Mentor,OH

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Anybody see this Mitch Trubisky QB? Tony grossi said something about him being a sleeper qb the other day and he just had a huge game against a ranked opponent he's also a local kid from Mentor,OH

He's a project. He has some amazing arm talent, I'll give him that. Guy has the best arm I've seen in a while, he's RIPPING some of those intermediate throws. Deep ball is a little shaky. Falls off of his throws a lot. Doesn't show much of inidication of being able to work the pocket. UNC is running a lot of underneath and negative routes and getting Switzer the ball in space, which pads his stats.

 

I don't know anything about his mental ability or experience, but I'd certainly take a go at him in the later rounds if available just based on some of those pro caliber throws.

[The Gipper]

Anybody see this Mitch Trubisky QB? Tony grossi said something about him being a sleeper qb the other day and he just had a huge game against a ranked opponent he's also a local kid from Mentor,OH

Stan....Atenears should pop in and give us a scouting report.

 

What is his draft status? Coming out next year? or beyond?

[Unsympathetic]

PFF grades..

 

1) Every Browns OL not playing the center position was one of the top performers. The other? Crow.

LG Joel Bitonio, 80.3

LT Joe Thomas, 79.0

RT Austin Pasztor, 75.9

RG John Greco, 68.6

2) Every Browns DL was the top performer.. but the LB's stunk [again] in runD.

DE Stephen Paea, 78.2

NT Danny Shelton, 76.8

NT Jamie Meder, 75.5

DE Xavier Cooper, 74.3

First round next year: QB followed by impact MLB or FS... Couldn't go too wrong with either Raekwon McMillan or Malik Hooker..

[The Gipper]

 

PFF grades..

 

1) Every Browns OL not playing the center position was one of the top performers. The other? Crow.

LG Joel Bitonio, 80.3

LT Joe Thomas, 79.0

RT Austin Pasztor, 75.9

RG John Greco, 68.6

2) Every Browns DL was the top performer.. but the LB's stunk [again] in runD.

DE Stephen Paea, 78.2

NT Danny Shelton, 76.8

NT Jamie Meder, 75.5

DE Xavier Cooper, 74.3

First round next year: QB followed by impact MLB or FS... Couldn't go too wrong with either Raekwon McMillan or Malik Hooker..

 

You don't think we need an edge rusher? I do. Perhaps as much as anything. (but those other things are needed tool)

[hoorta]

You don't think we need an edge rusher? I do. Perhaps as much as anything. (but those other things are needed tool)

 

Yes, except for a few well timed blitzes, Cousins had all day to throw yesterday.