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Adoug319

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Just more evidence to me that doing the usual jump up for an overrated QB would be so Brownsian with such a wealth of defensive talent in this draft class. I'm telling ya we got to load up this year with D or we will never be able to keep the performance pressure off a new QB. This class is so strong with edge rushers, safeties and interior DL. Just take 'em!

 

 

I agree completely. Go with Kessler for another season unless he totally shits the bed the rest of the way but he's look decent enough in what we've seen so far this year that you could go with him and build a defense. Follow the Vikings plan. The offense is an afterthought and they're 5-0

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Evidence tells me you can do both.

That you don't have to "jump" to grab a QB prospect.

That if there is true "depth" on the D-side, there will be quality D players available through the first two days of the draft.

There was a lot of DL talent available last year. Andrew Billings was quite often mocked in the first round but went in the fourth, for example.

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Evidence tells me you can do both.

That you don't have to "jump" to grab a QB prospect.

That if there is true "depth" on the D-side, there will be quality D players available through the first two days of the draft.

 

I'll be even more specific.

 

I think we can get two great edge rushers as our top two choices this year. O's are then in a quandary on which one to team up on. This team could produce a far better turnover ratio and TOP ratio that I think can be the tipping point. D's like that generate the best in our own O who always would believe they will get another shot with the ball. It's contagious and produces a lot of wins. Plus those edge rushers make the DB's look so much better with less time to have to cover receivers. Getting a safety as #3 would be icing on he cake and this year is loaded with quality safeties. Just isn't as glamorous as looking for Mr. QB, who at the moment I see as an illusion in this draft class, not a reality.

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I'll be even more specific.

 

I think we can get two great edge rushers as our top two choices this year.

 

 

Interior pressure is quickly becoming every bit as important in the NFL. I have my eye on Allen from Bama. Kid can play multiple spots across the front and really brings it when he's matched up one on one inside.

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If Nassib continues to look good, and consistency comes with it, and Shelton can play at even close to the level of yesterday's game every week, then we're looking at one top DE for a potentially very disruptive DL. Even so, with Jamie Meder, Cooper and others all capable of playing that spot effectively (if not brilliantly), it's not a glaring hole, unlike others.

 

Nate Orchard, he of the 18.5 sacks in a college year, hasn't produced anything close to the level we were hoping for when drafting him. Ogbah looks similar unfortunately, though obviously he's a year behind so give him time. Either way, we're absolutely due for a big time edge rusher. We have Joe Schobert as a *starter* - who saw that in May when there was talk of converting him to ILB? When we still had Mingo, Kruger & Orchard above him on the depth chart. Not that he's done any worse than the others, for sure.

 

But for me, just as important as an edge rusher is some competent DB play. From anywhere, to be honest. A fit Joe Haden is a quality CB1, but it's clear Tramon Williams' best days were behind him before he even came to Cleveland. Jamar Taylor isn't horrible, but better suited to the slot, where he performed well enough to get a shot outside. And a free safety would be lovely. Campbell and Kindred look solid box safeties, but both seem to get exposed in coverage.

 

So, Edge, CB, FS, DE for me. Oh, and, maybe some O players too. Good job we have a lot of picks...

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Well hopefully we'll know by year end if we're looking at an early QB. Knowing us though, Kessler will play well for another game, throw in a few stinkers, get injured and sent to IR, we'll finish the season with Josh McCown and maybe Hogan, and be left to choose between the about to retire guy, the flashes-of-competence rookie, the untested rookie, and rolling the dice.

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Hue/Sashi deserve credit for recognizing Dansby's terrible play last season - he's been dreadful for Cincy, and won't make a roster next season.

 

Both of Brady's non-Gronk scores yesterday were to the RB who beat Dansby downfield.

 

We still need to draft a early-round ILB but not playing Dansby is a positive

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I'll be even more specific.

 

I think we can get two great edge rushers as our top two choices this year. O's are then in a quandary on which one to team up on. This team could produce a far better turnover ratio and TOP ratio that I think can be the tipping point. D's like that generate the best in our own O who always would believe they will get another shot with the ball. It's contagious and produces a lot of wins. Plus those edge rushers make the DB's look so much better with less time to have to cover receivers. Getting a safety as #3 would be icing on he cake and this year is loaded with quality safeties. Just isn't as glamorous as looking for Mr. QB, who at the moment I see as an illusion in this draft class, not a reality.

 

Thanks, but there really was no need...

 

What you, and others here, are doing is creating a pure, needs-based draft based upon your positional perceptions of both importance and incumbent performance. That's half the prep work.

 

The other half is creating a player board by grading an entire draft class... something none of us do, although some come closer than others.

 

Once both of the above are done, then, and only then, is a position created to marry the two parts into a draft plan.

 

You can do the above at any time as long as the awareness is there that the product is preliminary and subject to revision. As of now for example Garrett for example may well be the clear BPA for the entire draft as of now so I can accept him as your first pick. But to say our second 1st rounder also goes to an edge player, an as yet unnamed edge player, is a bridge too far... for me anyway. And I say that recognizing that we are philosophically aligned in our approach to building a D from front to back.

 

 

I feel fairly safe in saying that somewhere in this process a QB will emerge as a Day 1 or 2 pick for us. Who and when? I really have no idea at this time. I have a lot of work to do including keeping check on another bias of mine: that it is harder to add a quality QB later as your record improves and your draft position falls.

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Fair enough Tour-the second edge rusher I have in mind at the moment is falling in most mock drafts somewhere near where we may actually pick. That would be Tenn's Derek Barnett. I'd also be happy if Bama's Tim Williams was sitting there for the taking. But if a super safety or CB had somehow been left on the board as BPA it would be difficult to pass him up. But it is all speculation since we don't know two important things just yet, is Kessler going to pan out over the course of a season and will a real bona fide franchise QB step forward for the draft? At the moment I am leaning towards Kessler proving out to be the man and I see no clear alternative anyway in this class (also at the moment). Without a doubt a healthy Garrett is well above just about anyone as BPA and also happens to be our greatest need on defense, so that for me is a foregone conclusion if he is there when we make the pick.

 

But my biggest fear with this FO is that we once again trade quantity for quality and leave a Garrett or a real Qb for someone else to laugh at us with next year. It really galls me that we were too damn incompetent not to see an available Prescott when we took Kessler. That guy has put Romo out of a job. And what galls me most is that an amateur like me could call it before the fact when pros who do it for a living just went totally blind. And just about every football program out there has laughed at the Browns over this whiff.

 

OK-off the soapbox now.

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Tenn's Derek Barnett... Bama's Tim Williams... Garrett...

 

*sniff* *sniff* I seem to detect a distinct SEC odor to your big board... ;)

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http://And what galls me most is that an amateur like me could call it before the fact when pros who do it for a living just went totally blind Texag

************************

Oh, baloney. Prescott had serious skills. BUT, he got a DUI. After the manziel fiasco, I wouldn't have drafted

Prescott either. He was acquitted, somehow, in July....the draft was how many weeks before that?

 

He also went to a perhaps best oline in football, etc etc. The entire league would have lost respect for the Browns

if they had drafted Prescott, and he turns out to be another JM.

 

The laugh on the Browns was drafting jm instead of Garapollo, or Carr.

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I'm just messin' now, war... I just have not seen much of these players this year. But I have a feeling I will be tuning in the TAMU-BAMA game game.

 

 

The entire league would have lost respect for the Browns if they had drafted Prescott, and he turns out to be another JM.

 

Wait... what? After the whole analytics thing we had respect?

 

I think we could have handled "wasting" a third... especially given the way he is actually turning out.

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I'm just messin' now, war... I just have not seen much of these players this year. But I have a feeling I will be tuning in the TAMU-BAMA game game.

 

 

 

Wait... what? After the whole analytics thing we had respect?

 

I think we could have handled "wasting" a third... especially given the way he is actually turning out.

 

BTW I have found the Browns next great QB and he wears #2. Remember this name for the 2025 draft, Samari Howard. I went to see my son's undefeated 7th grade "A" team last night and was treated, as promised, to a real show. Twisting, turning, juking, accelerating, stopping on a dime and jump starting to full speed and all the while looking for receivers running full speed left and right with frozen ropes to the sidelines all the way across the field. After putting the game away 39-6 by halftime they had him warm up to go in as a receiver. Watched him alternatively catch hard throws to either hand only missing one to his left hand out of about 10-12. Reminded me of watching Jerry Levias warming up for SMU vs A&M back in the 60's. I told his dad after the game that he was a great college player in the making. I'm damn sure going to clue Sumlin in now to watch his progress when he gets to Temple Texas High School. I know the coaches there are already drooling since they work closely with the Middle school coaches to use the same offenses and defenses. I've never seen anything like it for a kid that young. Sometimes real talent just hits you square in the face when it's that good, regardless of age.

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The draft dynamic is possibly changing, and it'll change many more times before it's actually time to select players. The difference now, as opposed to maybe a month ago, is that Cody Kessler appears to actually have a real chance at being more than a "bridge QB option". I'm not saying with 100% certainty that "Cody is for sure the QB of the future!", but I think it'd be very naive to think the kid didn't have a chance. It's all about "ceiling" and how much he can improve. I mean, shit, if he CAN continue to get better, than believe it or not...we actually HAVE our freaking QB.

 

We've been here before. We've seen a little known guy from Cleveland named Brian Hoyer come in and immediately stabilize our QB position. In fact, he came in and looked like the future, then got hurt, and then came back even better. Better...until he wasn't. Hoyer was plagued with a subpar running game, few WR weapons, and his own choking. Oh, and shitty coaching. Ironically, we're now seeing Hoyer play pretty well for the Bears, but once again, he's not doing quite enough to consistently win. His team lost to the Jags after squandering a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter, and while it's a team game, Hoyer shoulders some of the blame. Time and time again, the Bears settled for FG's, and that will get you beat in the NFL more times than not.

 

Hoyer is the cautionary tale of why I'm not ready to anoint Cody anything more than a "good story" at this time. As he plays more, teams will get more film on him. They will find a way to exploit his inability to push the ball downfield, and they will terrorize our injured and subpar offensive line. My biggest fear with Kessler is that he'll either get hurt, or he'll become a "David Carr" type player, where his constant beatings make him gun-shy.

 

So much is riding on Kessler that it's not even funny. We have so many picks next year, that if Kessler IS the guy, we literally get to construct the REST of our team, and for once not worry about the most important position in football. Allow yourself to actually fathom what that would mean. Of course, we still have to HIT on those pics, but we're going to have a top 3 pick, and quite possibly the first overall. I seriously DOUBT we'll get the first pick, mainly because we play hard and I think Hue will have our guys battling until the final whistle of the season. We will not tank, and I think we'll "out effort" some losing teams in the final weeks, and ultimately screw ourselves out of the top selection. In some ways, I hope we lose every game because I want Myles Garrett so badly. Then, with the Eagles 1st rounder, I want a safety, or possibly a corner. The draft is stocked with CB's and safeties! And with the Titans second rounder, I want to go OL.

 

You can start to see what Cody could mean to our team. Not only would he stabilize the position that haunted us for almost two decades, but it allows us to use VERY high picks on impact positions we so desperately need. This is how a quality team is constructed, and we have a chance at completing it.

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jiggins-no argument with anything you said, but the real unknown has nothing to do with the players, but with the draft process with this FO. Are we again going to trade out of some of the best players that can really turn this team around? If I'm the owner I order them to take a healthy Garrett at a minimum if he is ours for the taking. Then they can fuck with the rest of the draft all they want.

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regardless of needs, it's tough to imagine anybody passing on Garrett if you're picking that high.

 

Which in this draft, is probably the first overall. I'm not keen on the qb's at all in this draft, as far as the

first half of the first Garrett apparently is one of those rare, five-star out of five blue chippie players.

 

I hadn't heard of Trubisky until somebody mentioned him here...but the kid is impressive.

It's a great draft for db's they say -

but I'd have to seriously consider drafting Trubisky a lot higher than what has been commonly figured.

In fact, I just looked it up here:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/QB

 

and they have him as the #3 qb, 13th overal player, already. That's an early Wentz skyrocketing.

 

Trubisky with the second pick........or... a top cb or safety? Considering that the Eagles have won

and lost... maybe it might be a midround pick....

 

meanwhile, the Browns haven't started winning, but they are playing some exciting football, and they

are all in.

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jiggins-no argument with anything you said, but the real unknown has nothing to do with the players, but with the draft process with this FO. Are we again going to trade out of some of the best players that can really turn this team around? If I'm the owner I order them to take a healthy Garrett at a minimum if he is ours for the taking. Then they can fuck with the rest of the draft all they want.

 

This is an excellent point, and something I almost don't want to think about. Problem is, the allure of trading back is SO immense, that it's difficult not to take a deal if another team throws the world at you. It all comes down to value. If by chance we have the top overall pick, and a team in the top...oh...8 or so wants to trade, I think it's VERY difficult not to take that deal (assuming it's for a 1st rounder and other goodies). I think you CAN trade back IF you aren't going too far back AND you have players identified that will be there.

 

That being said, we need total badasses on our team. We need a "first overall pick" type talent on our roster. Now, there's no guarantee that drafting anyone at the top will result in a pro bowl type talent, but I think statistically you give yourself a better chance. Myles Garrett is the top rated player in this draft, despite a somewhat down statistical year, he basically fills every need our team has, and fills it big time. Problem is, our team has SO many holes, that if you almost have to get as many picks as possible. I very seriously doubt we're going to get the first overall pick, but if we do, it'll be very interesting to see what happens. For instance, suppose we have a top 3 pick and another team in the top 12 or so is desperate for a QB...you can bet your ass they're going to be calling us. Assuming Cody keeps progressing, and at the end of this season has earned the right to be our starter, trading down in the draft becomes a very real scenario.

 

So much has to happen for Kessler to be the "hands down starter" for our team, but the thought is beginning to creep inside people's minds. Keep in mind that he hasn't had a running game in the past two weeks, no Coleman, no Bitonio, and it appears as if he'll be without Pryor this week (hamstring...ugh). Cody doesn't have to be amazing. He doesn't have to light up the stat sheets. He has to move the ball, make good decisions, and continue to progress. The guy he reminds me of is Phillip Rivers, and I think that's his ceiling. Maybe he bottoms out and this is as good as he is, but we need to hope that he gets better and locks down this job. Is he as exciting as some of the upcoming QB's available in the draft? No. Does he have the measurables of Kizer? No. But is he growing and showing good signs on a VERY bad team? Yes.

 

I hate playing the "what if" game, but Jesus...think about what our offense looks like with Gordon, Pryor, Coleman, Crow, and Bitonio healthy and available. We know Gordon is gone forever, but the other guys are still on the team. If Pryor can't play this week, we're completely screwed. We might not actually score any TD's, and I'm being serious. Coleman won't be back for at least another week, so I couldn't tell you who will get big plays for us. I've said it once, and I'll say it again....If Kessler was on a good team, say Cowboys or Broncos, he'd be the story of the year.

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i really dont see how deshone kizer is still the "TOP" qb in this class he has a 2:1 td to int ratio sub 60% comp rate i mean he had a good game against texas and has been mediocre to benched since

 

Pretty embarrassing for early supporters here to see him benched last game. But BR's Matt Miller is still defending him albeit the video is full of plays against one of the crappiest defenses out there (no prejudice here :lol: ).

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/notre-dame/brian-kelly-benches-deshone-kizer-malik-zaire-seeking-energy-notre-dame-didnt-get

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2670166-dear-nfl-do-not-hit-panic-button-on-notre-dames-deshone-kizer

 

You really want a guy who QBs a 2-5 team?

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