Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 So what you're telling me is that we could have picked Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, and Rashard Mendenhall, or Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, and Willis McGahee, or Carson Palmer, Chad Ochocinco, and Cedric Benson with the pick that we used for Alex Mack? Well shit, I guess we did make a terrible decision. Your argument is stupid. Sure, we could have picked up any skill player in that pick, but a fat lot of good it does when your QB doesn't have enough time to even throw the ball. The line is the most important part of rebuilding an offense, and if you can't understand that, then there's really no point in this lame argument. EDIT: Oh, and nice line about my dad pulling out. That was very classy, and extremely clever. I can't believe I never thought of that one. you have a no clue what my argument is about...if that's your rebuttal...shortbus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Essentially everybody I've seen has agreed that our draft was pretty good. It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi). And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good. It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player. Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 It is way too early to try to judge the draft class. It takes about 3 years to get a accurate read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi). And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good. It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player. Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade. That's what I was trying to say about Mack. It was obvious that he was that good, so why not pick him up. His talent warranted a first round pick. And I wasn't saying that the players themselves were "pretty good". I just think that the draft itself was pretty good. We turned a minimal amount of picks into more, and got some depth in the LB and WR position. That's just the way I see it. I think EM focused more on depth with the later picks in this draft, and is going to use the next draft to pick best player available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 That's what I was trying to say about Mack. It was obvious that he was that good, so why not pick him up. His talent warranted a first round pick. Because it's not a position where marginal improvement yields significant rewards. If your starting center's getting bulldozed by nose tackles, then yes: adding a functional center will have a significant impact. But I don't think the difference between a solid B center and an A- center is as huge as it is at other positions. In our case, we may have been desperate enough for a functional center that taking one in the 1st made a lot of sense. But we also could have pursued one in free agency, had Mangini & Ko been interested. And I wasn't saying that the players themselves were "pretty good". I just think that the draft itself was pretty good. We turned a minimal amount of picks into more, and got some depth in the LB and WR position. If you're saying that you like the draft strategy, that's fine. But I'm crazy enough to think that I can predict which LB's and WR's will be able to help us. And Solon's the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 i listed the pro-bowlers at center since 99'.... and I listed the three other centers in our division(who have to face these dominant Nt's) in our division.....Birk= 6th round, hartwig=6th round,kyle= undrafted....they have three QB's taken in the first round...and 6th round centers or beyond.....we have a 1st round center and a 6th round Qb..... brilliant strategy don't ya think? yeah your right stupid argument.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Lmao!!! Just read through the majority of this thread since I missed it in April. For sanity's sake (yours, not mine) I do my best to avoid the board during the offseason. Too much time on my hands to think the worst. No point in making everybody else nuts the same time I'm rocking back and forth in my lil corner. I would be way out in left field if I was posting in April. Delonte would look sane next to me. Excited to watch the game tonight! 8:15 start for me. Got the kid til 8. Don't want to give her nightmares. This is why FAN is short for FANATICAL... 0-3 start. New coach that some of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready. New OC that most of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready. Owner that most of us wish would sell the team. Year 3 of the DA/BQ saga. $1701 fines for water. tempers in the locker room. More grievances filed with the league than touchdowns scored. AND here I sit... antsy. Butterflies. I can't wait to watch the game!!!!!! good stuff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 i listed the pro-bowlers at center since 99' I don't think you provided the complete list. I'll include it below. First thing that stands out: Kevin Mawae's been dominating the Pro Bowl ballot for some time now. And being the 36th pick in the '94 draft, he was drafted just fifteen picks later than Mack. If Mawae had gone at Mack's spot, do you think that would have been a dumb pick? And would a drop down fifteen spots make you suddenly okay with picking Mack? Also, it's worth noting that Mawae's set to be displaced by a guy picked higher than him: Nick Mangold at #29. It seems like that's the direction we're heading in. Hopefully, Mack will make it #21. 2009: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Nick Mangold - 1st round (#29) Casey Wigmann - UDFA Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37) Shaun O'Hara - UDFA 2008: Jeff Saturday - UDFA Dan Koppen - 5th round (#164) Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) 2007: Jeff Saturday - UDFA Nick Hardwick - 3rd round (#66) Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37) 2006: Jeff Saturday - UDFA Jeff Hartings - 1st round (#23) LeCharles Bentley - 2nd round (#44) 2005: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Jeff Hartings - 1st round (#23) Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) 2004: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218) Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) Mike Flanagan - 3rd round (#90) 2003: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Barrett Robbins - 2nd round (#49) Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64) Jeremy Newberry - 2nd round (#58) 2002: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Bruce Matthews - 1st round (#9) Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) Jeremy Newberry - 2nd round (#58) 2001: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Tim Ruddy - 2nd round (#65) Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91) Matt Birk - 6th round (#173) 2000: Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218) Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91) Tony Mayberry - 4th round (#109) 1999: Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36) Tim Grunhard - 2nd round (#40) Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91) Tony Mayberry - 4th round (#109) Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Prepare to be called a Retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Alo...point is...a overwhelming majority of Probowl centers go after 2nd round...and mawae was a guard that converted to Center...at least that is what NFL draft history has! Anyway...cincy,Pitt and Balt have 1st round QB's and a 6th round or later Center...we have a first round center and a 6th round pick as Qb...go figure. The VALID point I make is (to shortbus') we need a 1st round center to block the big bad NT's in our division while the other three teams have (2) 6th rounders and a UDFA...So in my opinion and it will never change...You should NEVER take a Center with the first round pick...it is fking stupid and always will be ...to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 quick look at past probowlers@ center...nick hardwick 3rd round (1 pro bowl), Olin kreutz 3rd round(7 probowls), Kevin Mawae ,2nd round drafted as guard,(6 probowls), Tom Nalen 7th round (4 pro bowls) matt birk 6th round(4probowls), Jeff christy 4th round(4 probowls)jeff saturdau 2 pro bowl(undrafted) on and on and on......STOOOPID to take in first round P.S. your Dad should have pulled out! ""The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about."' pitt 6th round center, balt 6th round center, Cincy undrafted center...... not downplaying the "tremendous" defense in the AFc north...simply pointing out that all the other team don't share your opinion on spending 1st round picks on centers... so you telling me for nth time I'm a douchebag and have no idea what i'm talking about...is well....not correct. In fact I proved that throughout the last ten years...probowlers are lower round centers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 ""The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about."' pitt 6th round center, balt 6th round center, Cincy undrafted center...... not downplaying the "tremendous" defense in the AFc north...simply pointing out that all the other team don't share your opinion on spending 1st round picks on centers... so you telling me for nth time I'm a douchebag and have no idea what i'm talking about...is well....not correct. In fact I proved that throughout the last ten years...probowlers are lower round centers! You proved that some Pro Bowlers are lower round centers. Whereas I, as well as Alo, have proved that some Pro Bowlers are 1st and 2nd round centers. Pittsburgh was interested in Mack, so they obviously felt he could start for them and replace Hartwig. Yes, the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens make due with their centers who were picked in the lower rounds. That doesn't mean those centers play phenomenally for them, they could give up a massive amount of sacks. I don't know, and I'm not going to look it up. The point I was trying to make was that, in a rebuild, which WE are currently in, picking up a good center can go a very long way. The Steelers and Ravens don't have to worry about that, because they have never had to experience a rebuild. Comparing our methods to their methods is completely useless, they have the talent to pick up best player available no matter what. We have not had that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 If Mawae had gone at Mack's spot, do you think that would have been a dumb pick? And would a drop down fifteen spots make you suddenly okay with picking Mack? Also, it's worth noting that Mawae's set to be displaced by a guy picked higher than him: Nick Mangold at #29. It seems like that's the direction we're heading in. Hopefully, Mack will make it #21. Umm yes to first question.....I'never advocate taking a center with first pick(horrid) EVER! And to take a Center that high I absolutely expect mack to be on this list 7 times Min.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you ever played or coached football at a level higher than Pop Warner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you ever played or coached football at a level higher than Pop Warner? I was all-conference in HS. at monsterback...never coached too slow to play at div 1 and wasn't going to play for Baldwin wallace or case western if I couldn't play for the buckeyes...and have followed football since i was 6...now 41....and have watched every draft since it's been televised. and you don't need to try...you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 i've been on this board for 4 years...who the fk do you think you are? Drop in and start chucking d-bags at me...making unprovoked comments at me. fk off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!! Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would Well I guess if Lerner's to be believed Kokinis wasn't the one behind this move - and Lerner thinks that Mangini's draft decisions and perssonell moves and coaching are NOT the problem. Man - I feel sorry for you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 i've been on this board for 4 years...who the fk do you think you are? Drop in and start chucking d-bags at me...making unprovoked comments at me. fk off Your social skills do lack. I agree with many of your points, but overall I don't agree with your attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I just wanted to chime in and say that I agree with Solon and that your dad should have pulled out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Well, before you go flying off the handle and getting all pissy (which you have already done), I should say that I didn't mean in that question in a dickheaded fashion. I only asked so I could gain a little bit more knowledge about you. Fans who have never played nor coached don't always have the right perspective on how teams should be built. They're all flash and no substance. They normally disregard the fact that the most important aspect of football is what happens in between the trenches. That's the only reason I asked. For a supposed 41 year old, you seem to get offended pretty quickly. Have you ever had your blood pressure checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Well, before you go flying off the handle and getting all pissy (which you have already done), I should say that I didn't mean in that question in a dickheaded fashion. I only asked so I could gain a little bit more knowledge about you. Fans who have never played nor coached don't always have the right perspective on how teams should be built. They're all flash and no substance. They normally disregard the fact that the most important aspect of football is what happens in between the trenches. That's the only reason I asked. For a supposed 41 year old, you seem to get offended pretty quickly. Have you ever had your blood pressure checked? yes i'm offended by someone who calls me a douchebag unprovoked three times when I've never had a football conversation with , never seen a post by and comes out of nowhere...apologize and we'll move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel88 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 yes i'm offended by someone who calls me a douchebag unprovoked three times when I've never had a football conversation with , never seen a post by and comes out of nowhere...apologize and we'll move on! LOL! Solon you totally remind me of the french guys in monty python and the holy grail. "I shall fart in your general direction" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 yes i'm offended by someone who calls me a douchebag unprovoked three times when I've never had a football conversation with , never seen a post by and comes out of nowhere...apologize and we'll move on! Maybe I shouldn't have come out of the woodwork and called you a douchebag. But, IMO, the attitude you were taking from the posts I saw was that of utter douchebaggery. Just because I didn't post anything before doesn't mean I wasn't here. I've been coming to this site off and on for a while now, just reading what people have to say. And, throughout that time, all I saw from you was namecalling and arguments. Sure, maybe you had good points, but you just ruined everything by trying to belittle people. So, am I going to apologize? No. But I'm not going to go out of my way to be a dick to you. If you have a good post, I'll be more than happy to conversate with you about it. If you are just calling people stupid, well, I'm going to call you a douchebag. Same goes for anybody I see, it's not a personal vendetta against you. I'm not entirely sure that conversate is a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 LOL! Solon you totally remind me of the french guys in monty python and the holy grail. "I shall fart in your general direction" one of my favorite movies...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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