The truth about the need for waterboarding...

[calfoxwc]

CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

Tuesday, April 21, 2009

By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

 

 

Khalid Sheik Mohammad, a top al Qaeda leader who divulged information -- after being waterboarded -- that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned terrorist attack on Los Angeles. (CNSNews.com) - The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of "enhanced techniques" of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

 

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, "Soon, you will know."

 

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the "Second Wave"-- planned " 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles."

 

KSM was the mastermind of the first "hijacked-airliner" attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001.

 

After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators. Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah. KSM, Zubaydah, and a third terrorist named Nashiri were the only three persons ever subjected to waterboarding by the CIA. (Additional terrorist detainees were subjected to other "enhanced techniques" that included slapping, sleep deprivation, dietary limitations, and temporary confinement to small spaces -- but not to water-boarding.)

 

This was because the CIA imposed very tight restrictions on the use of waterboarding. "The 'waterboard,' which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits," explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. "It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has 'credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent'; 'substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack'; and '[o]ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.'"

 

The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel.

 

Before they were subjected to "enhanced techniques" of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.

 

"In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques," says the Justice Department memo. "Both KSM and Zubaydah had 'expressed their belief that the general US population was 'weak,' lacked resilience, and would be unable to 'do what was necessary' to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.' Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon you will know.'"

 

After he was subjected to the "waterboard" technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

 

The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.

 

"You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles," says the memo.

 

"You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave,'" reads the memo. "More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali's brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM."

 

A CIA spokesman confirmed to CNSNews.com today that the CIA stands by the factual assertions made here.

 

In the memo itself, the Justice Department's Bradbury told the CIA's Rossi: "Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that 'the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa'ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001."

 

 

 

[PB&J]

Waterboarding is so patriotic.

 

It isn't like we executed Japanese officers after the war for waterboarding American P.OW.s

[Kosar_For_President]

Tuesday is game night. Fun for the whole family.

 

[Legacy Fan]

With questions this loaded, why even have the poll? Just make up the results and tell us you talked to some folks.

[Kosar_For_President]

With questions this loaded, why even have the poll? Just make up the results and tell us you talked to some folks.

 

Hence the picture.

[Kosar_For_President]

Like I said crickets....

 

You can only be beat Tim McVay enough. It's like Reagan having sex with Nancy. Or the Chevy Chase show. I would rather watch paint dry.

[osusev]

I have to admit this topic is a bit of a conundrum for me. I flip flop on this topic probably more than any other.

 

IF you can garner RELIABLE intelligence from torture to save thousands do you cross the line? Torture does work to an extent... too much and than well anything will come out true or not.

 

The ugly truth is that really almost any sort of detention is torture to one degree or another, its that specific types of torture are OK with the general public and others are not.

 

prolonged solitary confinement is torture....

 

I know my more primitive response to certain situations is well more apt to accept waterboarding, and than my more cerebral approach is against and for it.....

 

This is a difficult topic.

[calfoxwc]

Exactly, Sev. It's tough. I am heartened by the alleged fact, that they only used the waterboarding on the

 

most dangerous and hateful terrorists who had information, admitted it, but refused to tell us.

 

If it really did flat out prevent that 9/11 attack on LA, absolutely I would give them the green light,

 

only under those circumstances.

 

That is to say, as long as there was never any permanent or even temporary damage to the "persons" involved.

 

Then, there has to be a better way. I wonder why they don't use sodium penathol or something.

 

I do find it very odd, that some leftists couldn't seem to care less about torture of our soldiers by saddams' gov,

 

Not a word about beheadings by al quaida, but only political points scored on the torture subject when it

 

comes to the Bush admin.

[Mr. T]

Like I said crickets....

 

You can only be beat Tim McVay enough. It's like Reagan having sex with Nancy. Or the Chevy Chase show. I would rather watch paint dry.

 

 

One better, and this would be torture. getting laid by Barbara Bush

 

All is fair in love and war.

[Westside Steve]

Sure it's a loaded question.

 

But there is not one official in the Clinton Bush or Obama administration that would seriously answer it any other way.

Not one board member of the Heritage foundation or MoveOn.

 

But still we have this hypocritical dog and pony show over a few cases of unpleasant, but neither injurious nor life threatening questioning.

 

And as Sev mentioned how about solitary?

Is Obama closing "Alcatraz in the Rockies" and prosecuting the governor of Colorado?

 

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

With questions this loaded, why even have the poll? Just make up the results and tell us you talked to some folks.

 

Not only that Leg. Tons of posts of mine we flagged and deleted, initiated by Cal. Because I didn't agree with him that some fat singer from England was talented. A non-political topic that I could actually comment on. Something that I actually know more in this arena then Cal could ever know (yes I am a musician and singer). I see that Cal and his communist cohorts believe in the Second Amendment, just not the First. Hurry up and read this, it is going to be deleted due to censorship from the gestapo.

[Legacy Fan]

I meant loaded responses to the poll.

 

Along the lines of, Do you still beat your wife?

 

Steve: are you suggesting waterboarding isn't life-threatening? There are well-documented cases where fatalities have been the result instead of the new location of the WMD's. Not to mention the various throngs of problems that stem from oxygen deprivation to the brain & heart.

 

KFP: I got the moderator memo about your comments on the older singer. Though I never actually saw the posts (they weren't included in the memo & were gone by the time I got to the thread) so I can't comment. My position on deleting/editing posts is documented on this forum & probably search-able (I'm lazy/busy).

[calfoxwc]

It was only a thread I started on a serious note, K.

 

You immediately hijacked it to another stupid smart-ass subject.

 

Feel free to start your own stupid thread and it will surely stay there forever.

 

... your freedom of speech, dummy, should NOT conflict with mine.

 

PS.

 

Contact the mods, they can explain to you how to start your own thread. LOL

[Guest Aloysius]

I deleted some duplicate threads, but I left Nell Carter safe & sound in the one remaining thread on the subject. Not sure when that post was deleted; there's no record of one of the mods taking it out in the moderator logs.

[calfoxwc]

you are correct, Leg - my choices weren't all that fair... GGG

 

but to add legit choices like "They should never have waterboarded and found another way"

 

is in itself a loaded answer, as in, it -assumes- there IS another way.

 

And, I have at least 7 black cherry trees to cut up for firewood if it will

 

just stop raining.

 

PS - you did it twice, K.

 

that is not "tons". Truth is, I hacked your invalid entries and changed the font to white.

 

It's still there, go look. (ROF,L).

[Westside Steve]

I meant loaded responses to the poll.

 

Along the lines of, Do you still beat your wife?

 

 

Steve: are you suggesting waterboarding isn't life-threatening?

 

Yep.

Do I think there could be cases where a weak heart could be stopped? Sure.

Same with threatening with mean looking dogs.

Or quite a few other things that could cause stress or fear.

But those are exceptions.

A taser can kill or cause some injury.

So can rubber bullets.

I also think quite a few people might choose to end their lives rather than spend life in jail.

 

There are well-documented cases where fatalities have been the result instead of the new location of the WMD's. Not to mention the various throngs of problems that stem from oxygen deprivation to the brain & heart.

 

KFP: I got the moderator memo about your comments on the older singer. Though I never actually saw the posts (they weren't included in the memo & were gone by the time I got to the thread) so I can't comment. My position on deleting/editing posts is documented on this forum & probably search-able (I'm lazy/busy).

 

I'm still in the "lay off with the deletion" camp. WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

PS - you did it twice, K.

 

that is not "tons". Truth is, I hacked your invalid entries and changed the font to white.

 

It's still there, go look. (ROF,L).

 

Sweet man, it's OK to ignore the Constitution when it fits your agenda. Sounds familiar, Obama.

 

[calfoxwc]

Try to not be stupid, K?

 

Your freedom of speech stops at my verbal doorstep.

 

Your freedom of speech is not permitted to deny my freedom of speech.

 

Freedom requires responsibility.

 

You were irresponsible. Your freedom of speech is still there,

 

just start your own damn thread. and I won't sabotage it.

 

So, there you go. Now stfu. LOL

[PB&J]

So I read the original article posted, and was thinking, "Well, I guess it is great that they waterboarded this asshole and stopped an attack."

 

Then, I saw this article from 2005: http://articles.latimes.com/p/2005/oct/08/nation/na-terror8

 

... The White House said Thursday that U.S. authorities disrupted the so-called “West Coast Airliner Plot” in mid-2002, stopping terrorists from attacking “targets on the West Coast of the United States using hijacked airplanes. The plotters included at least one major operational planner involved in planning the events of 9/11.”

 

The brief White House document offered no details about the timing of the airliner plot, or potential targets. White House officials on Friday confirmed that one of the targets referred to in the document was the Library Tower, which was renamed the US Bank Tower in 2003.

 

The description of the plot was based on claims made by Mohammed, who has said he was the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, during interrogations after his capture in Pakistan in March 2003. But those familiar with Mohammed’s comments and the alleged plot have suggested that, at most, it was a plan that was stopped in its initial stages and was not an operational plot that had been disrupted by authorities. ...

 

Good thing they waterboarded the plot that they had already foiled nine months before out of him.

[Kosar_For_President]

Try to not be stupid, K?

 

Your freedom of speech stops at my verbal doorstep.

 

Your freedom of speech is not permitted to deny my freedom of speech.

 

Freedom requires responsibility.

 

You were irresponsible. Your freedom of speech is still there,

 

just start your own damn thread. and I won't sabotage it.

 

So, there you go. Now stfu. LOL

 

Wow even the "mighty" Cal can be fooled. Susan Boyle Maybe all the shit you been feeding us is wrong too. Good times.

[Kosar_For_President]

KFP: I got the moderator memo about your comments on the older singer. Though I never actually saw the posts (they weren't included in the memo & were gone by the time I got to the thread) so I can't comment. My position on deleting/editing posts is documented on this forum & probably search-able (I'm lazy/busy).

 

Sorry Leg, Cal was being Commie.

[Kosar_For_President]

Your freedom of speech is not permitted to deny my freedom of speech.

 

I must of missed that passage in reading the First Amendment.

[Mr. T]

Okay, so what type of torture would be relevant?

 

Maybe we could hang them by their balls?

 

Or We could use a blow torch and tweezers and one by one pull out their finger nails?

 

 

[DTBH]

Seriously Cal, did you copy and paste this poll from FoxNews.com? It looks EXACTLY how they would write it.

[Legacy Fan]

Slate has a shockingly objective piece :super rollseyes: about the S.E.R.E. school (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) which reveals that despite its opening in the early 1950's and the author's own attending of the school in the mid 1990's, The Bush Administration has been the only one to utilize it. And apparently only use it to train TEAM WATERBOARD.

 

Despite the author's unrivaled ability to make Olbermann appear level headed, he does make a solid point about the direction these "training schools" should move in their instruction:

 

In fact, our soldiers need training from SERE based on an entirely different premise, as illustrated by the experience of Michael Durant, the helicopter pilot who spent several weeks in captivity when he was captured by Somali fighters during the 1993 "Black Hawk Down" raid. Durant survived by befriending his captors and forcing them to see him as a fellow human being. SERE conditions servicemen to expect nothing but the worst from their captors; Durant's life depended on his ability to understand his captors and find ways to manipulate them psychologically.

[Westside Steve]

 

America always held it's head high that we were more evolved than that and we didnt need to resort to the level of the animals we were fighting ,and that made all the chuck norris vietnam vet/rambo lets bring the prisoners from vietnam movies of the reagan years movies so popular ,we were on the side of what was right and moral.

 

We are better than this.

Atleast we should be.

 

Serioulsly Dan that's a positive sentiment but I don't think it's realistic.

 

It's just that the outcry is only heard during republican administrations.

(Meaning I thik it's been the CIA MO all along.

I don't remember headlines with the Clinton era rendition program though I did hear complaints from human rights groups.

It just didn't make air then.

 

And let's be clear, we MUST draw the line at torture for sport.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Seriously Cal, did you copy and paste this poll from FoxNews.com? It looks EXACTLY how they would write it. DTBH

 

***********************************************************************

 

Nope, I wrote it entirely on my own. I just put conditions on the premise, that you make a choice between

two choices. Well, I put in a third to be funny...

 

To put in "All this waterboarding is WRONG and there MUST be a better way" assumes that a better way exists,

hence, the two narrow choices. I was just wondering, in light of the information that another 9/11 was in the works

for LA...

 

And, I didn't know how far the traing for our own servicemen went. That's stupid crap right there.

 

OUR servicemen are not the bad guys, THEY don't have information that they can give to end it.

 

When you mistreat a human being violently, and with torture in other ways, you change them. With children,

 

it easily becomes a cycle of violence. With terrorists, they are already violent and dangerous way over the edge.

 

But to treat our own soldiers this way? For what END? To condition them to accept violence and torture as

 

acceptable? The author makes an excellent point. I can only imagine the trouble some of these servicemen

 

have afterwards and especially, back in civilian life.

 

It's enough to be play acted to teach our servicemen, but to actually do it to them? That's a sick, twisted

 

experiment. That must be stopped.

 

In a small way, it reminds me of how saddam treated his sons brutally... to teach them to be cold blooded

 

monsters. Which, they certainly became.

 

I would seriously wonder, if this has caused some soldiers to come back to civilian life, and crack up,

going violent eventually....

 

Great relevant article.

 

[Westside Steve]

 

 

To put in "All this waterboarding is WRONG and there MUST be a better way" assumes that a better way exists,

 

 

It does.

The absolutely shocking tortures by the terrorists and middle east dictators probably work a lot better in a Machiavellina way.

It just doesn't get as much press, save for the Pearl beheading.

 

 

Honestly I don't know why sodium pentathol isn't a first line.

Ask a million questions you already know the answers to and check their validity before you proceed.

 

WSS

 

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

ar, ar.... LOL

 

what I MEANT was, a better, more decent and acceptable way to acquire the desperately needed information to save American lives.

 

Comedy that goes around, comes around, says I. Ya big turkey. @@

[Westside Steve]

Heh

I revised that as you responded bud.

WSS