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PoeticG

Kessler

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Here's a long, but well-written article that covers the above. Since most won't make it to the end, here's a couple late paragraphs projecting into one of our possible futures...

 

Once the competition ramps up in training camp, though, Jackson will soon learn that Griffin lacks the pocket presence necessary to protect himself. Think about it: Despite having the full support of the team owner, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2012 draft failed under two head coaches and didn’t appear in a game last year despite being healthy. If Griffin could have still done the job, that wouldn’t have happened.

“He’s just not very good in the pocket,” said a veteran Washington defensive player who requested anonymity. “When you asked him to sit back there and read defenses and dissect things, you could tell it was difficult on him. You could even tell in practice last season, when he was the scout team quarterback going against the first-string defense, it was still moving kind of fast for him. He wasn’t sure where the rush was coming from. He wasn’t quite sure where they [the safeties] were. It’s gonna be hard for him.”

 

http://theundefeated.com/features/the-puzzling-plummet-of-rgiii/

 

Good article Tour. It's part of my concerns about RG III also. If you can't read a defense- it's going to be sooner rather than later that we see Kessler in action. Unless Hue wants to use McCown as the backup pinata this year. Fer sure, we're not keeping 5 quarterbacks on the roster, I won't speculate at this point who's getting shown the door.

 

That wasn't the only article I've read detailing the reasons why Griffin got benched in favor of Cousins. Humility may be great- but I'm not sure deciding to be coachable is going to be enough to turn his career around. Robert has one thing going for him- fan expectations for this season couldn't be much lower.

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Nice breeding hips.

 

Z

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giphy.gif

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You wouldn't know what to do Gip, you'd throw a hip.

I would give it the old college try.

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Good article Tour. It's part of my concerns about RG III also. If you can't read a defense- it's going to be sooner rather than later that we see Kessler in action. Unless Hue wants to use McCown as the backup pinata this year. Fer sure, we're not keeping 5 quarterbacks on the roster, I won't speculate at this point who's getting shown the door.

 

That wasn't the only article I've read detailing the reasons why Griffin got benched in favor of Cousins. Humility may be great- but I'm not sure deciding to be coachable is going to be enough to turn his career around. Robert has one thing going for him- fan expectations for this season couldn't be much lower.

 

I think a lot of folks forget that lil Gruden preceded Hue as Cinci's OC and oversaw a good chunk of Dalton's development before going to WSH and deciding that franchise's QB future.

 

That Hue had Andy on a path to his best season is undeniable, but how much was due to coaching him up vs. play design and calling is debatable. Play simplification and the judicious use of the read option certainly helped propel 2015.

 

The above certainly promotes the hope that Hue can wring more production out of RG3 than Jay did, but the source of that production would likely be a result of play calling. It is not as if the Shannies and Gruden were not coaching Defense reading these past 4 years.

 

Just as I argued for Goff vs. the rest of the 2016 QB class, that Jared had the "sight" was obvious. Those that drooled over others' physicality, others who did not display the "sight", seemed to all assume that coaching would produce it. It just doesn't reliably do so. Coaching can enhance it... refine it... but it just doesn't bring it into being from nothing... not often anyway.

 

That in 4 years of pro coaching RG3 has not gained the sight does not bode well for it happening now.

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That in 4 years of pro coaching RG3 has not gained the sight does not bode well for it happening now.

 

^ Amen. When we signed him my comment was- "almost anyone can look great in a t-shirt tossing the rock around with zero defensive pressure on him."

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If RG3 is a dumpster fire, we will know it early on and the team will have the draft currency to move up and get their guy next year. Hue may be happy with Kessler by then and moving up won't have to happen.

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Who cares if RG3 sucks? If he does, we see Kessler and/or get the guy we want next year. It's a win-win.

  • Upvote 1

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Not exactly an impressive resume...

 

Here's the link to the start of the "slide show"...

 

Who cares if RG3 sucks? If he does, we see Kessler and/or get the guy we want next year. It's a win-win.

 

Not the point... simply debating proper expectation level.

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Really interesting segment on NFL Live yesterday about RG3 and how he came back year 2 in WSH so full of himself that he called a meeting with the Shannies and told them what changes he wanted in the Offense.

 

Then when things subsequently went south, how he refused all help trying to get him and the Offense back on track.

 

If he has been humbled and/or Hue has broken through, then maybe, just maybe, there's a chance he and we see some success.

 

Interesting! The guy definitely needed to be humbled. Here's an article specifically about that meeting from Mike Shanahan's perspective that may differ from the angle the NFL Live wanted to portray. He felt RG3 was only puppeting what the Owner Daniel Snyder wanted.

 

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/redskins-owner-dan-snyder-used-135700698.html

 

Here's part of the link:

 

“When Robert is standing there going through all of that, I know it’s coming from Dan,” Shanahan said. “When Robert talked about ‘unacceptable,’ that was a word Dan used all the time. He was using phrases Dan used all the time. There’s only one way a guy who’s going into his second year would do something like this: If he sat down with the owner and the owner believed that this is the way he should be used.

 

“He had to have the full support of the owner and, in my opinion, the general manager to even have a conversation like that. He just had the best year for a rookie QB in the history of the game. You got selected to the Pro Bowl. We went to the playoffs. We tried to get him to slide. We tried to get him to throw the ball away. If he had told me he was hurt, I would have taken him out of the [playoff] game. To hear him … it was really incredible.”

 

Shanahan said earlier in the article that he thought spending all of the draft picks on Griffin was "absolutely crazy" and that the decision came strictly from Snyder. Shanahan said he headed straight to Snyder's office after Griffin's meeting and told him "Do you realize what you’re doing to this kid?"

 

The fact Snyder used Griffin as a puppet to get what he wanted was unfair to the young player. The Baylor product wasn't a developed passer at the time, and forcing him to be one was only going to hurt him.

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Yup... that bit on Shanny Sr.'s reaction to RG3's demands was also in the article I posted subsequent to relating the NFL Live notes.

 

 

Meanwhile... I finally took the time to see the tape on Kessler here: http://draftbreakdown.com/players/cody-kessler/

 

Here are my notes..

 

Vs. Arkansas St. (W 55-6, Week 1, 9/5/15)

  • sees "rusher", but not "the rush".... i.e., he reacted a few times to a blocked DL who was getting some minor penetration and reacted by running into a free blitzer.
  • seemed to be flicking the ball 45 yards downfield; never saw more, but think there is more there.
  • seems to more lock onto a receiver than read D; on one play looked right until rusher had him in grasp in which he twisted left and fired late to a WR coming back and out at the left OB... pass was completed, but very dangerous.
  • token PAP effort; decent TOR mechanics.
  • went 0/4 on deep balls (40+); twice WR was wide open.
  • nice touch on swing/ short passes.
  • zero throwaways...

Stanford (L 41-31, Week 3, 9/19/15)

  • signs of reading D; signs of option routes.
  • mixed accuracy including low pass completion on crossing routes.
  • many dump offs; first throwaway.
  • Field Vision... more rusher vs. rush situations, but also on one run cut back into multiple heavy hits to avoid a single DB.
  • Quick Release... raises ball to just behind right shoulder and throws from there.
  • can zip if steps into throw, but more often flicks or pushes ball.
  • Better PAP efforts.

U of Washington (L 17-12, Week 6/ Game 5, 10/8/15)

  • back to staring down primary rec.
  • 2 INTs due to above; one was horrendous, WTF throw into blown up screen right.

 

That's all the 2015 games available at Draft Breakdown. Some progress so there may have been more in the remaining few games, but also some regression and may have been more as well. But based on what I saw...

  1. For a touted, Pro-style offense, USC ran a lot of shotgun.
  2. Bubble-screens, quick slants and crosses dominated Cody's completions. Not a single completed deep fly or post to be seen.
  3. Excepting a few times in the Stanford tape I saw no evidence of reading the D to determine his best target.
  4. Appeared his second option was usually a dump off to a RB swinging out of the backfield.
  5. Saw zero throws with anticipation.
  6. Lacks pocket presence... drops eyes to pressure even if not an immediate threat.

The last thought that crossed my mind as the U-dub game wound down was,

"Can this guy beat out Connor Shaw?"

Looks to me like it'll take a whole lot of whispering for this to happen.

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Everyone is psyching themselves out.

 

Just because we spread risk around and got a bunch of new offensive players doesn't mean we have automatic starting talent and depth at every position.

 

Here's all of your expectations and how they stack up with reality:

 

Everyone thinks Kessler was a solid college QB with good stats. He's got a strong arm. We brought in 5 new WR's from the draft, so according to math at least one or two of them have to be automatic superstars plus we have more established receivers already on the roster. the offensive line is so-so and there's a lot of options to go with at RB. The amount of depth and spread risk should set us up for success.

 

No.

 

Cody Kessler wasn't anywhere close to among the best QB's in college ball. As an avid fan of the college game, I can attest to Kessler never making any kind of highlights or news. At the beginning of his career he was given one of the best programs in college led by one of the best QB's in the country; Matt Barkley (who has done next to nothing in the NFL), and immediately went down the shitter with it. He was the starter for USC since his sophomore season (3 years), he had a consistent, speedy set of WR's, had a top 10 rated O-line every single season he's started, and he plays in the worst defensive conference in the nation. You would think that with those types of advantages he would be heavily discussed every week, but no. He lacks presence, anticipation of the defense, anticipation of his receivers, accuracy, and he folds under pressure if a lineman gets too close.

 

Hoping that a few of the 5 receivers we picked up will be immediate superstars and Kessler will shine because there's highlight videos of him against the worst defenses in football is just nonsense and irrational.

 

Instead of watching his highlights, watch his games.

 

 

 

The reality is Connor Shaw will start. That worries many, but it's less crazy to think a guy who has game experience and time with the Browns will succeed compared to a fresh college player that was inconsistent and never considered NFL value.

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You're truly a game COCK

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Cody Kessler wasn't anywhere close to among the best QB's in college ball. As an avid fan of the college game, I can attest to Kessler never making any kind of highlights or news. Spurrier

********************************************************

eh...neither was Tom Brady. Hue followed Cody's career - that's good enough for me -

we'll see how it all plays out. While I'm a big fan of Connor Shaw's.... Shaw is not

a rookie anymore, and Kessler is. Kessler has already said that he's learned about twenty

points on his footwork aready....

doesn't say much for his coaching in college...?

 

but hey, Matt Leinart sure was a college star qb from USC - eh? We used to have a guy - Shepsies around here, who

had the hotsies for Mattsies. Leinart was a Heisman Trophy winner. Had mega highlights and news.

 

And good ole Brady Quinn. Set a whole bunch of records at ND. Mega highlights. Shepsies thought he was

pretty, too.

 

Cool. you draft Leinart, or Quinn.....

 

I'll draft the kid, Kessler, whose career Hue has been following. Or a Tom Brady in the later rounds. A kid who has

"it" and is very, very accurate, needs some pro coaching. I'd just need my qb to be a great steering wheel, doesn't have

to have been superstar flashy, highlights and mega-news stud in college.

 

There are other examples of star college qb's who were busts. Browns - Mike Phipps. Stinkin Squealers - Mark Malone...

Ratbirds - Kyle Boller... Bengals - David Klingler. All were highly touted first round draft picks.

 

I see Kessler as a whole lot Brian Sipe, and another kid from way back who was 6'1", was only 145 lbs - and always dreamed of

playing for ND. but the coach said he was too skinny, so the skinny kid went to Louisville. Was actually a ninth round pick

by the Squealers back in the day. But he was released by the Squealers before the season started. Squealers head coach

thought the kid was not smart enough to qb an NFL team.

 

Who was that kid? Johnny Unitas. Not many college qb's have that "IT" to enter the NFL and be a terrific NFL qb.

Hue Gotta Believe.

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The reality is Connor Shaw will start. That worries many, but it's less crazy to think a guy who has game experience and time with the Browns will succeed compared to a fresh college player that was inconsistent and never considered NFL value.

 

LOL.

 

Zombo

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Too much stock is put in this year drafting a qb by everyone and a lot of teams. I'm all in on RG3. He's healthy and in Washinton Jay Gruden didn't put him in the right situation. It sure wasn't Cousins taking the team to the playoffs as a matter of opinion the Skins were one of the worse playoff teams ever. That whole division sucked so bad last year.

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The reality is Connor Shaw will start. That worries many, but it's less crazy to think a guy who has game experience and time with the Browns will succeed compared to a fresh college player that was inconsistent and never considered NFL value.

Lol Is Lumbergh back?

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I finally took the time to see the tape on Kessler here: http://draftbreakdown.com/players/cody-kessler/

Here are my notes..

Vs. Arkansas St. (W 55-6, Week 1, 9/5/15)

  • sees "rusher", but not "the rush".... i.e., he reacted a few times to a blocked DL who was getting some minor penetration and reacted by running into a free blitzer.
  • seemed to be flicking the ball 45 yards downfield; never saw more, but think there is more there.
  • seems to more lock onto a receiver than read D; on one play looked right until rusher had him in grasp in which he twisted left and fired late to a WR coming back and out at the left OB... pass was completed, but very dangerous.
  • token PAP effort; decent TOR mechanics.
  • went 0/4 on deep balls (40+); twice WR was wide open.
  • nice touch on swing/ short passes.
  • zero throwaways...

Stanford (L 41-31, Week 3, 9/19/15)

  • signs of reading D; signs of option routes.
  • mixed accuracy including low pass completion on crossing routes.
  • many dump offs; first throwaway.
  • Field Vision... more rusher vs. rush situations, but also on one run cut back into multiple heavy hits to avoid a single DB.
  • Quick Release... raises ball to just behind right shoulder and throws from there.
  • can zip if steps into throw, but more often flicks or pushes ball.
  • Better PAP efforts.

U of Washington (L 17-12, Week 6/ Game 5, 10/8/15)

  • back to staring down primary rec.
  • 2 INTs due to above; one was horrendous, WTF throw into blown up screen right.
The last thought that crossed my mind as the U-dub game wound down was,"Can this guy beat out Connor Shaw?"

Looks to me like it'll take a whole lot of whispering for this to happen.

 

Appreciate the time you put into that. It was a wtf-level surprise to me where we took Kessler at the time; but one of the guys driving that decision knows way more about NFL QBs than I'll ever know. It's also possible he didn't think it was a very good QB class overall so he was willing to bypass BPA for one of the ones that interested him most for his system.

 

It should boil down to whoever expedites the progression reads better between the Kess and Shaw. The few times we saw Shaw in pre-season and regular season - he was pretty good at alluding the pressure. I also liked his 24 TDs to 1 INT ratio in his last season in the SEC. All that said, Kess was the guy this regime drafted so maybe he gets more patience/latitude/favoritism than a non-drafted QB from the previous regime? It would look like a pretty bad thesis if this regime's QB of choice way above the pre-draft projections can't beat out a QB nobody wanted to draft from 2014 for a roster spot.

 

Here's Athlon Sport's pre-draft summary on Kess (giving him a 7th round grade):

STRONG POINTS: Shows foot quickness in the pocket. Effective mobility on roll-outs to buy time. Able to climb the pocket to evade pressure. Has touch on timing routes to the outside and downfield. Can change his arm angle under duress to sidearm throws. Plays both under center and in the shotgun. A QB who distributes the ball to several different receivers. He played in an up-tempo pitch-and-catch offense and is confident enough to throw the ball up to his highly skilled playmakers.

 

WEAK POINTS: Not a run threat downfield. Slow windup in his release. Pats the ball too often before throwing. Struggles to throw deep and lacks velocity and distance downfield. Inconsistent ability to read coverage, and he will lock on his receivers too often. Hit or miss with deep ball accuracy.

 

SUMMARY: Three-year starter. Finished college career with 10,339 yards 88 TDs and 19 INTs. NFL teams will like his competitiveness and mental toughness having played for five different coaches during his college career. He battles on the field to keep plays alive. Concerns will be his lack of ideal size, arm strength and accuracy. Shows intangibles as a developmental backup quarterback.

 

FINAL GRADE: 7th round.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Once upon a time Brian Sipe's final grade read: "Don't Bother" while Brady Quinn was often referred to as "The Most Pro Ready QB" with a first round projection (albeit from a pretty bad QB class). Quinn developed a bad habit from a seemingly good idea at ND. He consistently locked onto gigantic target Jeff Smardijza and wing span for good results, which did NOT prepare him for the world of reading through progressions at the speed of the NFL game. That practice made perfect at 1 level was a bad habit he couldn't shake at the next. With Kessler, it'll be interesting to see why Hue and the FO like him as much as they do.

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