osusev Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 This last game... We have Tucker, Vickers, STallworth, than STeinbach in the second half of the game. Our inability to rush the ball game in game out seems to be greatly overlooked on this board. 66 yds per game for lewis? 49 yds yesterday? How do you win when you cant run? just pass pass pass right and wonder why our offense is so predictable. The first three games we were out pretty much the same players plus some in the secondary. This last game in the 4th without Tucker and STeinbach as well as Vickers I felt we were pretty much done. I know jamal runs hard but he is SLOW. Rice looked like 20mph faster than anything JL did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eqrulz101 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ravens have the best run defense and have held people under 100 yards for 27 games straight, you gonna tell me in all those games they havent faced a good running back or a good offensive line? You dont run against the Ravens, you throw throw throw especially when their CBs are hurt and on the bench. That is a coaching problem but to say that is Jamals fault is not being fair. Ya, we all know its time to go out and get a top running back it has been for quite some time, but I would still like to see Jamal playing in instances. Do you not see the effort the guy plays with?, we need some sort of tough leadership on this team and I think he is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Da is 7td 2 int in his last 5 games throwing over 200 yds a game and a qb average over 80 against good teams and defenses. Jamal has 3 tds total and an average of 66 yds per game.. BE has the Most drops and STallworth has played what 2 games for us? Tucker 1 or two? Injuries to key oline and skill positions are killing us. I am not happy with some of the coaching but taking other factors of a very complicated mix of variables it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 This required its own thread? Sev, again, can you reconcile for me how "cockpit" problems are the reason for DA's current ranking as the worst NFL QB with at least 200 passing attempts? If I'm following your logic, it would indicate that his "cockpit" has been worst. Is that your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Greythan Injuries to skill players is a problem. BE is NOT consistent enough to be labeled a great reciever and hates the contact on inside patterns. What does that leave us with Steptoe at 5-9 who is a third string rookie or sanders who was brought back AGAIN as a CUT player. JL has 3tds and 66 yds per game average and our oline lost STeinbach in the beginnig of the 4th or end of the 3rd yesterday. We dont have a "cockpit" because tucker and vickers plus steinbach are HUGE pass and runn blocking components. WE have ONE tight end who probably should be a reciever because he blocks like one and catches like one. JL has lost a step but I still love the way he works... but he is slower. The primary focus of fans as to our woes seem to all point to DA. It is not the qb position but the key injuries and some of our game planning that I think is our main problem. DA in the last 5 games against quality opponents has thrown 7tds and 2 ints that I would call is good progression. IF the fans were looking objectively at the other variables surrounding each game its seems to point to key injuries to starters NOT DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 IF the fans were looking objectively at the other variables surrounding each game its seems to point to key injuries to starters NOT DA. Answer the question: Does DA have the worst set of circumstances compared to any other QB with 200 passing attempts this year? How about Jamarcus Russell? How about JT Sulivan? How about Kitna/Orlovsky? How about Marc Bulger? All the QB's or QB tandems listed have a higher passer rating than DA while playing for teams with a combined record of 6-26. Stated another way, all four teams have a worse record than ours and yet their QB is rated higher. Its primarily the cockpit, is what you wish us to believe. I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 That is a gross oversimplification of a comparison of a complex situation of QB results. every team has a different set of pro and con variables and factors that effect the Qb. From key personnel to coordinators, weather, schedule, etc. You are trying to set up a false mean of averages without taking into all of the extra and different factors for each player. The only constant is the position label. If that is how you define if our QB is failing or succeeding than by all means go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 That is a gross oversimplification of a comparison of a complex situation of QB results. every team has a different set of pro and con variables and factors that effect the Qb. From key personnel to coordinators, weather, schedule, etc. You are trying to set up a false mean of averages without taking into all of the extra and different factors for each player. The only constant is the position label. If that is how you define if our QB is failing or succeeding than by all means go ahead. That is a gross oversimplification of a comparison of a complex situation of QB results. every team has a different set of pro and con variables and factors that effect the Qb. From key personnel to coordinators, weather, schedule, etc. You are trying to set up a false mean of averages without taking into all of the extra and different factors for each player. The only constant is the position label. If that is how you define if our QB is failing or succeeding than by all means go ahead. Statistics double talk. And all bullshit. This is the same self-professed purveyor of "facts". EVERY team has the same set of complex variables Sev. They simply play out with different values. (e.g., personnel, coordinators, weather, schedule, etc) It is statistically relevant that DA is so poorly rated. It can not be explained away with your assertions of injury impact, other players' performance, etc. It could be if he was rated, say, 20th or so. Our QB is failing. Find me a QB who maintains a 31st rank passer rating and keeps his job. You won't. Why is that so hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 IF the fans were looking objectively at the other variables surrounding each game its seems to point to key injuries to starters NOT DA. Answer the question: Does DA have the worst set of circumstances compared to any other QB with 200 passing attempts this year? How about Jamarcus Russell? How about JT Sulivan? How about Kitna/Orlovsky? How about Marc Bulger? All the QB's or QB tandems listed have a higher passer rating than DA while playing for teams with a combined record of 6-26. Stated another way, all four teams have a worse record than ours and yet their QB is rated higher. Its primarily the cockpit, is what you wish us to believe. I don't buy it. They are all receiving a bit more production from their running backs: Darren McFadden .. 5.1 avg / 1 TD / (4) 20+ gains / (1) 40+ gain Frank Gore ...... 4.6 average / 4 TD's / (6) 20+ gains / (1) 40+ gain Kevin Smith ..... 4.4 average / 4 TD's / (3) 20+ gains / (1) 40+ gain Steven Jackson ... 4.1 avg / 4 TD's / (3) 20+ gains / (1) 40+ gain Jamal Lewis ..... 3.6 average/ 3 TD's / (2) 20+ gains / no 40+ gains Although only Jamal is hindered by poor QB play, while wearing Browns fan glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 That is a gross oversimplification of a comparison of a complex situation of QB results. every team has a different set of pro and con variables and factors that effect the Qb. From key personnel to coordinators, weather, schedule, etc. You are trying to set up a false mean of averages without taking into all of the extra and different factors for each player. The only constant is the position label. If that is how you define if our QB is failing or succeeding than by all means go ahead. You can try to spin your stats to death, but when I watch the games, that says all I need to know. I'd like to know what great defenses we have faced recently. BAL has the number 1 rushing defense, but their pass defense yesterday was BAD given all of their injuries. That being said, I truly do believe that coaching is the BIGGEST issue with this team right now. The playcalling yesterday WAS terrible; you have to put your players in a position to make plays, and, following the two TDs, we didn't do that until we trailed. That being said, at the end of the game, your players have to execute, and our players, particularly our QB, did not execute. I don't know if we would have gone on to win or tie had DA not thrown the pick 6, but it remains that he DID at a most critical point in the game and it sealed the loss. What I DO see is playcalling that has been scaled back to protect the QB from himself and protect the team from the QB. What I see is a QB who can't read defenses and rarely changes the play at the line of scrimmage, even when it is obvious what the other team is doing. What I see is a QB who is COMPLETELY lost in the 2 minute drill and literally has to be spoonfed the game on a play-by-play basis. I see a guy who has trouble going through his progressions and regularly misses the open guy. I see a guy who chokes under pressure. I most certainly do not see Bernie Kosar, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning (you get the idea). And the problem is, this is the way Derek has always been. I will not shed any tears when RAC is gone, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Okay Stan. You want in on this discussion? I've already stated in another thread that DA was not the reason we lost yesterday. But are you really jumping into this thread, responding to my post trying to defend DA's 31st NFL passer rating? Okay, let's play. Team rushing stats: Oakland (10th) 121/game 4.4/carry San Fran (19th) 105/game 4.5/carry St Louis (25th) 94.1/game 3.9/carry Cleveland (28th) 93.6/game 3.7/carry Detroit (31st) 72/game 3.8/carry You really think this explains why DA's rating is lower than the other four, horrible teams listed? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I agree that our coaching is hurting us more than DA's abilities. I also agree that injuries are probably our biggest problem. BUT we can't improve either situation right now. There is absolutely NO way to do so. What we CAN do is change our QB. It might help, it could hurt, but the upside looks higher than the downside looks low, and it is the only real change we can make right now. Something has to be done. To stand pat with this team is suicide. This team isnt winning the SB, and nothing else we would do justifies sitting by and failing to gather information on what we have at the most valuable position on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Tupa its an interesting problem if we do put in BQ. Do we hurt DA's possible trade value? Do we hurt BQ possible trade value by putting him into a sticky situation with our current problems? Do we hurt BQ's development because of our coaching and play calling? I dont think there is an easy solution here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eqrulz101 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Do we hurt DA's possible trade value? Already hurt and probally cant be worse Do we hurt BQ possible trade value by putting him into a sticky situation with our current problems? We didnt draft him to trade him Do we hurt BQ's development because of our coaching and play calling? Lets hope not but he needs some game experence and hopfully he only has these coaches for 8 more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Some folks will make anything an excuse for DAs poor game performance he has been in the nfl for 4 years and still every starting rookie qb has better stats da isnt going to get any better he is what he is streaky and inconsistant combined with injuries and edwards own inconsistancy with some really bad coaching and playcalling on both sides of the ball and we have a mess we call the cleveland browns this is without factoring in the absentence of the gm and owner whom do nothing to end this horrible coaching regime... The browns organization is a strange family it doesnt include its fans just their money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 At this stage the trade value argument is only viable if they KNOW Quinn will be good. Otherwise, the risk of heading into next season with an unknown in Quinn and a still struggling DA would be catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 The team isn't winning. The quarterback isn't playing well. Changes need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.