Camp Wentz- Starts here.

[hoorta]

Sure.....if he is an 8 to Elways 9...get him. If he is the second coming of BR, get him.

Now, show me the professional scouting reports that say all that is true.

 

You ask, you get.... Not Andrew Luck gushing, but what most in Camp Wentz see. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259

 

PS- here's your guy... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/joey-bosa?id=2555249

[stillmotion]

Bosa is overrated.... i'm sick of everyone being so hard on his dick.... The DE's in this draft are deep.

[gftChris]

I'm firmly in Camp Goff, but the more I see of Wentz, the more I wouldn't be bummed if we took him. It's getting to 1A/1B for me now.

 

I'm just conscious that a rookie QB in Cleveland isn't going to have tons of time to learn on the job (McCown will get injured pretty quickly and be out for at least a game or two). In that regard, a higher starting point is preferable and that's why I'm in camp Goff.

 

Of course, if we can get our OL playing to its potential, then whoever's back there will have all day to throw, so it might not matter, and Wentz is a lot bigger than Goff.

[The Gipper]

 

You ask, you get.... Not Andrew Luck gushing, but what most in Camp Wentz see. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259

 

PS- here's your guy... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/joey-bosa?id=2555249

Bosa graded significantly higher per these.

[The Gipper]

Bosa is overrated.... i'm sick of everyone being so hard on his dick.... The DE's in this draft are deep.

Bosa rated very, very high by everyone....but you. So? Where did you acquire your genius at draft evaluation. Do they sell that at Walmart?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Bosa rated very, very high by everyone....but you. So? Where did you acquire your genius at draft evaluation. Do they sell that at Walmart?

 

Except that he isn't. You're the one who's refusing to believe cold hard facts. Bosa is not even the top rated DE prospect on NFL.com. He's ranked #2 behind Deforest Buckner by a decent amount. There's an infinite amount of analysts saying the same thing - Bosa is good, not great. Certainly not #2 overall great. He's no J.J. Watt...he's not even close.

 

But I get it, one time (probably 8 months to a year ago) you read an article somewhere that said Bosa is an amazing prospect...so naturally that means it's true. If only your apparent idol Bill Polian had something to say on Joey Bosa...

 

 

“Based on the numbers, neither of these guys will be able to win on their own in the National Football League, and that’s what you want,” Hall of Fame general manager and current ESPN analyst Bill Polian said. “... These are not difference-maker numbers.”

[The Gipper]

 

Except that he isn't. You're the one who's refusing to believe cold hard facts. Bosa is not even the top rated DE prospect on NFL.com. He's ranked #2 behind Deforest Buckner by a decent amount. There's an infinite amount of analysts saying the same thing - Bosa is good, not great. Certainly not #2 overall great. He's no J.J. Watt...he's not even close.

 

But I get it, one time (probably 8 months to a year ago) you read an article somewhere that said Bosa is an amazing prospect...so naturally that means it's true. If only your apparent idol Bill Polian had something to say on Joey Bosa...

 

There is NO such thing as cold hard facts when it comes to this. You are stupid if you think that. What I read were about a dozen different respected draft rating services that said that Bosa was the #1 prospect....right here, right now....of any position...in the draft. You may have seen one outlier that said Buckner was better. Gee, isn't that cute of you to quote that one solitary source.

 

And JJ Watt wasn't JJ Watt. He was drafted like in the middle of the first round, no?

 

Fact is: no you, or I, or Tour or any other motherfucker on this planet knows what is actually going to happen in the future.

Bosa could be Bruce Smith, or he could be Courtney Brown.

All these QBs could be Ben R. or Andrew Luck, or they could turn out to be Joey Harrington.

I am only going by what a majority of the people say about things.

 

Sorry if that offends you......but you know my attitude about that? Suck it....be offended.

[calfoxwc]

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Defensive-Ends-2016-Draft.asp

 

Bosa isn't even listed... if Watt were in this draft... he'd definately be rated high on this list.

[gftChris]

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Defensive-Ends-2016-Draft.asp

 

Bosa isn't even listed... if Watt were in this draft... he'd definately be rated high on this list.

Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.

 

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-43-Defensive-Ends-2016-Draft.asp

[gftChris]

In a 34 he projects to OLB

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Outside-LBs-2016-Draft.asp

 

Not that he couldn't maybe play 5 tech in 'obvious passing situation', but he's a run-stuffing edge rusher.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

There is NO such thing as cold hard facts when it comes to this. You are stupid if you think that. What I read were about a dozen different respected draft rating services that said that Bosa was the #1 prospect....right here, right now....of any position...in the draft. You may have seen one outlier that said Buckner was better. Gee, isn't that cute of you to quote that one solitary source.

 

And JJ Watt wasn't JJ Watt. He was drafted like in the middle of the first round, no?

 

Fact is: no you, or I, or Tour or any other motherfucker on this planet knows what is actually going to happen in the future.

Bosa could be Bruce Smith, or he could be Courtney Brown.

All these QBs could be Ben R. or Andrew Luck, or they could turn out to be Joey Harrington.

I am only going by what a majority of the people say about things.

 

Sorry if that offends you......but you know my attitude about that? Suck it....be offended.

 

No, the fact is that you are fucking wrong - like you often are - and then you try to vaguely shift or manipulate the argument to one small point to prove yourself right. It's fucking hilarious when literally every single poster on this board has proven you wrong time and again and you huff and puff until everyone gives up because your old stubborn ass can't handle being wrong about something that you are admittedly not very knowledgable about.

 

The onus is on you to prove your wrong opinion. It's not on us to disprove it.

 

What happened was you read a mock draft in September claiming Bosa was the top pick and then you went with it. The problem is...there's new information. Bosa flubbed in the combine. Now the questions of whether or not he benefitted from being on a stacked defensive line are a little louder. Maybe he's not this transcendent talent that some (completely ignorant) fans have claimed him to be.

 

It's funny - updated big boards don't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. NFL.com doesn't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. SI doesn't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. And I'm willing to bet that when McShay and Kiper release their updated big boards, Bosa won't be the top prospect there either. But you keep sticking to what you read 8 months ago, because clearly that is law.

 

Another thing- it's funny that you were just ramming Polian quotes down people's throats on these QB's and saying that nobody knew as much as him. But now, when there's a quote that goes against your man crush, your narrative changes.

 

So either Polian doesn't know what he's talking about and these QB's actually are very good prospects, or he does know what he's talking about and Bosa isn't that good. Which is it?

 

 

And...unlike you, I quote my sources.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/29/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-top-100-prospects - Sports Illustrated - Feb. 29, 2016 - Bosa is ranked 6th.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft - NFL.com - Updated Feb. 8th, 2016 - Bosa is ranked 4th.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade - NFL.com - Bosa is ranked 7th.

[calfoxwc]

Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.

http://www.drafttek....-2016-Draft.asp Chris

***************************************************

Of course he is. My point is, Watt was considered a 34 end as well. Bosa is not.

Bosa still reminds me of Kruger in a few ways in a 34.

[gftChris]

 

Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.

http://www.drafttek....-2016-Draft.asp Chris

***************************************************

Of course he is. My point is, Watt was considered a 34 end as well. Bosa is not.

Bosa still reminds me of Kruger in a few ways in a 34.

 

Fair enough, misunderstood you.

[Tour2ma]

Bosa graded significantly higher per these.

 

Yup... and tied with Goff.

[stillmotion]

Bosa rated very, very high by everyone....but you. So? Where did you acquire your genius at draft evaluation. Do they sell that at Walmart?

I never said the kid sucked or anything. This is just my gut feeling and my opinion bro. As you said, no one ultimately knows what can happen, but my prediction is he'll be good (not great).

 

Look at what the so called experts said about Clowney, Courtney Brown, and even Johnny Manziel....

 

That fact is that anyone can make educated guesses, but what makes someone an expert?

 

Being on ESPN? Writing for NFL.com?

 

 

Ultimately, even if Bosa is the top pick, if he's ever gonna be elite like Watt he needs to work harder than everyone. He won't be able to kill everyone in the NFL.... Do you know enough about his personality to fully guess that he will?

 

Plus, he said negative things about the city of Cleveland and insinuated he didn't want to play here. So if we draft him, who goes to say he won't bounce as soon as his rookie contract is up?

 

I'd rather have a kid who works his ass off and wants it more than anyone else.... And someone who wants to be here....

Not somebody being worshipped by everybody (see Clowney).

 

I think Goff is the right call, and will be fucking elite. Wentz might be slightly bigger and i see him having a potentially great career, but I think Goff is naturally better, and just wants it more.

 

It's a deep defensive draft, but how many potentially great QB's are there? Is Bosa a once in a decade type of talent, or can we get a badass DE in the second or third round, and potentially a great QB?

[The Gipper]

 

No, the fact is that you are fucking wrong - like you often are - and then you try to vaguely shift or manipulate the argument to one small point to prove yourself right. It's fucking hilarious when literally every single poster on this board has proven you wrong time and again and you huff and puff until everyone gives up because your old stubborn ass can't handle being wrong about something that you are admittedly not very knowledgable about.

 

The onus is on you to prove your wrong opinion. It's not on us to disprove it.

 

What happened was you read a mock draft in September claiming Bosa was the top pick and then you went with it. The problem is...there's new information. Bosa flubbed in the combine. Now the questions of whether or not he benefitted from being on a stacked defensive line are a little louder. Maybe he's not this transcendent talent that some (completely ignorant) fans have claimed him to be.

 

It's funny - updated big boards don't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. NFL.com doesn't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. SI doesn't have Bosa ranked as the top prospect. And I'm willing to bet that when McShay and Kiper release their updated big boards, Bosa won't be the top prospect there either. But you keep sticking to what you read 8 months ago, because clearly that is law.

 

Another thing- it's funny that you were just ramming Polian quotes down people's throats on these QB's and saying that nobody knew as much as him. But now, when there's a quote that goes against your man crush, your narrative changes.

 

So either Polian doesn't know what he's talking about and these QB's actually are very good prospects, or he does know what he's talking about and Bosa isn't that good. Which is it?

 

 

And...unlike you, I quote my sources.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/29/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-top-100-prospects - Sports Illustrated - Feb. 29, 2016 - Bosa is ranked 6th.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft - NFL.com - Updated Feb. 8th, 2016 - Bosa is ranked 4th.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade - NFL.com - Bosa is ranked 7th.

No, not wrong. You don't know shit about shit. You can't even follow the thread. I was talking Bosa.

And you quoted the same source twice.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings Bosa #1

http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2016.asp Bosa #1

 

Even on your SI reference, Bosa still ranked better than any QB or any other DE

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/29/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-top-100-prospects

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft Bosa #1

 

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/fox-50-joel-klatt-big-board-top-50-prospects-in-college-football-112015 Bosa #1

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/02/11/nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-top-50-for-2016-dominated-by-ole-miss-ohio-state/

Bosa #3....but higher than any QB or other DE.

 

I could go on.....

 

http://247sports.com/Bolt/McShay-updates-top-32-NFL-draft-prospects-list-39848592

 

These are all today, right now.

[The Gipper]

 

Yup... and tied with Goff.

Larry didn't link Goff. I didn't see that link.

[The Gipper]

I never said the kid sucked or anything. This is just my gut feeling and my opinion bro. As you said, no one ultimately knows what can happen, but my prediction is he'll be good (not great).

 

Sure, but it is a gut feeling that goes against what most people think.

 

Look at what the so called experts said about Clowney, Courtney Brown, and even Johnny Manziel....

 

That fact is that anyone can make educated guesses, but what makes someone an expert?

 

Being on ESPN? Writing for NFL.com?

 

Well, that makes them a professional....which I assume makes them more of an expert than you or I.

 

 

Ultimately, even if Bosa is the top pick, if he's ever gonna be elite like Watt he needs to work harder than everyone. He won't be able to kill everyone in the NFL.... Do you know enough about his personality to fully guess that he will?

 

Again, pure speculation. He will probably work as hard as he needs to.

 

Plus, he said negative things about the city of Cleveland and insinuated he didn't want to play here. So if we draft him, who goes to say he won't bounce as soon as his rookie contract is up?

 

I don't give a crap about that. He said those out of ignorance. If he comes here, he will find that he likes it.

 

I'd rather have a kid who works his ass off and wants it more than anyone else.... And someone who wants to be here....

Not somebody being worshipped by everybody (see Clowney).

 

I think Goff is the right call, and will be fucking elite. Wentz might be slightly bigger and i see him having a potentially great career, but I think Goff is naturally better, and just wants it more.

 

It's a deep defensive draft, but how many potentially great QB's are there? None IMO

 

Is Bosa a once in a decade type of talent, in many estimations, yes

or can we get a badass DE in the second or third round, and potentially a great QB? No one really knows the answer to any of these questions.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

No, not wrong. You don't know shit about shit. You can't even follow the thread. I was talking Bosa.

And you quoted the same source twice.

I am also talking Bosa? Not sure what you are referencing.

Those are two different NFL.com sources, so I actually didn't. One is a singular NFL analyst, the other an overall cumulative list. But that's okay.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings Bosa #1 - Yes. One of the only actual legitimate sources. The only one you've been able to go to this entire time. So there's one for you.

http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2016.asp Bosa #1 -This is about as reliable and equally as "official" as WalterFootball, which has Bosa as #6. So your amateur big board vs. mine, let's call the average and put Bosa at #3 - still not #1 overall.

 

Even on your SI reference, Bosa still ranked better than any QB or any other DE

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/29/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-top-100-prospects - Cool, he's ranked higher than any QB or DE. Still not the top overall prospect, so you were wrong.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft Bosa #1 -As I said, when those boards are updated, Bosa likely won't be the #1. You can hang on to it now, since it's essentially all you have.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/fox-50-joel-klatt-big-board-top-50-prospects-in-college-football-112015 Bosa #1 - That big board is from Nov. 20th. Here's one from the same guy, dated Feb. 22, where Bosa is now the #6 prospect.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-draft-top-50-player-rankings-joel-klatt-big-board-022216

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/02/11/nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-top-50-for-2016-dominated-by-ole-miss-ohio-state/

Bosa #3....but higher than any QB or other DE. - Cool, so he's still not the top prospect. So you were wrong...once again.

 

I could go on.....

 

http://247sports.com/Bolt/McShay-updates-top-32-NFL-draft-prospects-list-39848592 -That is Todd McShay's list from September 30, 2015.

 

These are all today, right now. Well...no. They weren't...

 

 

You're absolutely hilarious. Your own sources even prove you wrong. So, once again, you have nothing. And once Kiper and McShay update their big boards, you'll have even less than nothing.

Thank you for proving my point. This was a satisfying win.

[D Bone]

 

Bosa flubbed in the combine

 

Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.

 

Gotta love the combine.

[Mike H]

 

Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.

 

Gotta love the combine.

 

Bosa was actually not huge on production, at least from the standpoint that people were hoping to see a big leap from him on the stat sheet last season.

 

A stellar performance in shorts and tees would have eliminated some of those concerns, but it kind of created another bit of doubt.

 

I still like Bosa, but I am thinking more because of it.

[hoorta]

Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.

 

http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-43-Defensive-Ends-2016-Draft.asp

 

Yeah they have Bosa as a 4-3 DE, and a good one. If your base D is a 3-4, you don't pick Bosa.

 

I looked at some of those drafts Gip quoted, and seriously?

 

McShay (ESPN) does have Bosa as the #1 prospect, but NOT in his mock draft. How does he have Cook and Hackenberg in his top 25, but not Wentz? Was he asleep, or a typo? Especially since he has the Browns drafting Wentz.

Klatt has both Lynch and Cook ahead of Goff, doesn't mention Wentz, and has Zeke Elliiot as the #37 prospect Has Hackenberg, as his #20 ranked prospect- my bet is Christian isn't going until the third round. Riiiiiiggghhhtt. He either threw darts at prospects, or was high when he came up with that one.

 

CBS has Bosa #1, Goff @ #4. A stud qb trumps a stud DE every time- just ask the Texans.

Bosa may be a great prospect, but a stud DE is not our #1 need, especially with a couple potential stud quarterbacks staring us in the face.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.

 

Gotta love the combine.

What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016? He's a good player - one the top 10. But he's not, and never has been, game changing talent.

 

The weekend in shorts and a tank top just cemented what plenty were already saying. Great, not elite.

[D Bone]

What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016?.

 

Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.

[Canton Mike]

 

Yeah they have Bosa as a 4-3 DE, and a good one. If your base D is a 3-4, you don't pick Bosa.

I'm no pro, but I have always thought Bosa is over rated. Good, not great.

 

I looked at some of those drafts Gip quoted, and seriously?

 

McShay (ESPN) does have Bosa as the #1 prospect, but NOT in his mock draft. How does he have Cook and Hackenberg in his top 25, but not Wentz? Was he asleep, or a typo?

I have never liked McShay.

Klatt has both Lynch and Cook ahead of Goff, doesn't mention Wentz, and has Zeke Elliiot as the #37 prospect Has Hackenberg, as his #20 ranked prospect- my bet is Christian isn't going until the third round. Riiiiiiggghhhtt. He either threw darts at prospects, or was high when he came up with that one.

WOW! Hackenburg may be the 2oth rated QB!!! & Lynch & Cook over Goff? This guy's been hangin' out with Johnny!

 

CBS has Bosa #1, Goff @ #4. A stud qb trumps a stud DE every time- just ask the Texans.

Bosa may be a great prospect, but a stud DE is not our #1 need, especially with a couple potential stud quarterbacks staring us in the face.

 

When I see McShay's name, I start getting sick.I can't believe they PAY him.

 

Mike

[hoorta]

 

Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.

 

Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except

 

Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.

Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.

My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.

[Mike H]

 

Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except

 

Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.

Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.

My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.

Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.

[hoorta]

Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.

 

In Hue I trust. I'm sure they'll watch every snap Wentz, Goff, and Lynch took, and have private workouts with all of them- and maybe a few other guys.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.

About three of us. Coincidentally, the same three who were also saying the Bosa wasn't some amazing prospect back then.

[stillmotion]

 

I never said the kid sucked or anything. This is just my gut feeling and my opinion bro. As you said, no one ultimately knows what can happen, but my prediction is he'll be good (not great).

 

Sure, but it is a gut feeling that goes against what most people think.

 

Look at what the so called experts said about Clowney, Courtney Brown, and even Johnny Manziel....

 

That fact is that anyone can make educated guesses, but what makes someone an expert?

 

Being on ESPN? Writing for NFL.com?

 

Well, that makes them a professional....which I assume makes them more of an expert than you or I.

 

 

Ultimately, even if Bosa is the top pick, if he's ever gonna be elite like Watt he needs to work harder than everyone. He won't be able to kill everyone in the NFL.... Do you know enough about his personality to fully guess that he will?

 

Again, pure speculation. He will probably work as hard as he needs to.

 

Plus, he said negative things about the city of Cleveland and insinuated he didn't want to play here. So if we draft him, who goes to say he won't bounce as soon as his rookie contract is up?

 

I don't give a crap about that. He said those out of ignorance. If he comes here, he will find that he likes it.

 

I'd rather have a kid who works his ass off and wants it more than anyone else.... And someone who wants to be here....

Not somebody being worshipped by everybody (see Clowney).

 

I think Goff is the right call, and will be fucking elite. Wentz might be slightly bigger and i see him having a potentially great career, but I think Goff is naturally better, and just wants it more.

 

It's a deep defensive draft, but how many potentially great QB's are there? None IMO

 

Is Bosa a once in a decade type of talent, in many estimations, yes

or can we get a badass DE in the second or third round, and potentially a great QB? No one really knows the answer to any of these questions.

 

I firmly think it's very naive to say that if he comes here he'll like it after he publicly dissed Cleveland. Anyways bro i'm not picking a fight with you and you're entitled to your opinion too and I respect that, I just don't think he's the best fit for the Browns....