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Camp Wentz- Starts here.

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So take Tunsil at 2 and trade to San Diego for Goff and a second or third.

WSS

Tunsil will be a Tit or Charger@ #1 & well deserved

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Besides us moving up one spot to take TR at #3?

 

Since 2000....

  • Jags traded up to #5 to take Blackmon.
  • Bills traded up to #4 with us to take Watkins.
  • Fins traded up to #3 to take Dion Jordon.
  • Falcons to #6 for Julio.
  • Jets traded up to #4 to take Dwayne Robinson (?).
  • Saints traded the farm to move up to #2 to take Ricky Williams.
  • WSH traded up to #3 to take Chris Samuels.
  • Ravens traded up to #5 to take Jamal Lewis.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/Years/

Thanks, didn't remember that many off the top of my head.

 

Not very many Top 2s.

 

And not very many great picks in that group.

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I guess I'm technically president now, but this is the first time I've been on all week.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637808/article/mayock-carson-wentzs-ceiling-similar-to-andrew-lucks

 

Sheeze, the silly season has started. Can we start a little more humble with the ceiling stuff like Joe Flacco? Just got around to catching the Senior Bowl- he does have the athletic talent, arm & smarts. Can he read and react to a pro defense, that's a few orders of magnitude more difficult than D II? Plenty of cannon armed qbs that were total flops in the pros.

 

 

Besides us moving up one spot to take TR at #3?

 

Since 2000....

  • Jags traded up to #5 to take Blackmon.
  • Bills traded up to #4 with us to take Watkins.
  • Fins traded up to #3 to take Dion Jordon.
  • Falcons to #6 for Julio.
  • Jets traded up to #4 to take Dwayne Robinson (?).
  • Saints traded the farm to move up to #2 to take Ricky Williams.
  • WSH trades the Farm to move up and take RG III
  • WSH traded up to #3 to take Chris Samuels.
  • Ravens traded up to #5 to take Jamal Lewis.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/football/DraftTrades/Years/

 

:) Don't know how that got missed.

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Sheeze, the silly season has started. Can we start a little more humble with the ceiling stuff like Joe Flacco? Just got around to catching the Senior Bowl- he does have the athletic talent, arm & smarts. Can he read and react to a pro defense, that's a few orders of magnitude more difficult than D II? Plenty of cannon armed qbs that were total flops in the pros.

 

 

:) Don't know how that got missed.

The question was for non-QB trades.

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Sheeze, the silly season has started. Can we start a little more humble with the ceiling stuff like Joe Flacco? Just got around to catching the Senior Bowl- he does have the athletic talent, arm & smarts. Can he read and react to a pro defense, that's a few orders of magnitude more difficult than D II? Plenty of cannon armed qbs that were total flops in the pros.

 

 

:) Don't know how that got missed.

 

The silly season started for me months ago. For tia, months before that.

 

 

The Flacco comparison goes only as far as the level of competition. As far as on-field comparisons, Lynch is much closer to Flacco than Wentz. The Luck comparison, IMO, is because of Wentz's athletic ability + size + pro-style experience combination. He's not a world beater athlete a la RG3, but he's certainly a threat on his feet. He doesn't possess a cannon arm a la Russell, but he's certainly capable of making every NFL throw. He's not a towering monster a la Lynch, but he certainly possesses an NFL frame.

 

I just find it funny that there are people desperately clinging to "polish" like it's a mutually exclusive trait. Just because Goff is "more polished", doesn't mean Wentz isn't polished in his own right. It's not one or the other when it comes to that.

 

Maybe some find it important that a guy comes in immediately and does...ok. Personally, I'd rather a guy sit for 6-12 games, then have a great career.

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Speaking of RG3, him to SF makes too much sense not to happen.

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Manziel makes just as much sense.

Perhaps, but there are extra-curricular issues that might prove a problem. Also, RG3 has at least shown some semblance of success in the league.

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Perhaps, but there are extra-curricular issues that might prove a problem. Also, RG3 has at least shown some semblance of success in the league.

True, but if you only looked at the last two years of play Johnny shows way more upside...

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True, but if you only looked at the last two years of play Johnny shows way more upside...

You mean ignore RG3's pro-bowl, rookie of the year time and only look at those years where he's not played? Sure. Same could be said of Austin Davis or Brandon Weeden.

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The silly season started for me months ago. For tia, months before that.

 

 

The Flacco comparison goes only as far as the level of competition. As far as on-field comparisons, Lynch is much closer to Flacco than Wentz. The Luck comparison, IMO, is because of Wentz's athletic ability + size + pro-style experience combination. He's not a world beater athlete a la RG3, but he's certainly a threat on his feet. He doesn't possess a cannon arm a la Russell, but he's certainly capable of making every NFL throw. He's not a towering monster a la Lynch, but he certainly possesses an NFL frame.

 

I just find it funny that there are people desperately clinging to "polish" like it's a mutually exclusive trait. Just because Goff is "more polished", doesn't mean Wentz isn't polished in his own right. It's not one or the other when it comes to that.

 

Maybe some find it important that a guy comes in immediately and does...ok. Personally, I'd rather a guy sit for 6-12 games, then have a great career.

 

TC, I'll leave it to Hue which one he likes better. It's the Manziel question all over. Granted Wentz has the higher upside, but Goff is the lesser risk.

Yeah, they're both risks, but please get it right for once.

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Wentz may objectively have the higher ceiling, but if he's not ready to start immediately - and at some point this season he'll have to start, you can be sure of that - there's a very good chance he gets destroyed before he can reach that ceiling. If Goff, as he appears to be, is ready to start on day 1, but maybe doesn't have a HoF ceiling, he's still more likely to have success with the browns than Wentz.

 

Just my 2p.

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Thanks, didn't remember that many off the top of my head. Not very many Top 2s.

 

And not very many great picks in that group.

 

Me neither... I think I had 2 off the top. The site made it easy to flip through a few years.

 

Not many top 2s, but a lot more traded picks, if expand to top ten.

 

The most surprising thing to me was the relatively low number of trade ups for QB.

 

 

 

I just find it funny that there are people desperately clinging to "polish" like it's a mutually exclusive trait. Just because Goff is "more polished", doesn't mean Wentz isn't polished in his own right. It's not one or the other when it comes to that.

 

Maybe some find it important that a guy comes in immediately and does...ok. Personally, I'd rather a guy sit for 6-12 games, then have a great career.

 

Way more than "polish" in my case. Deeply ingrained fundamentals and demonstrated read/progression capability are the major differences I see.

 

Odds of a great career after 6-12 sits seem greater for the guy with the better chance of success had he started Day 1.

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Wentz may objectively have the higher ceiling...

 

I know it's not necessarily your position, but I'd like someone to make this case... and I'll settle for subjectively...

 

For a long time I've conceded it, but the more I look, the less obvious this is given that I see Goff's floor as having already cleared the greatest hurdle pro QBs must hurdle.

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I know it's not necessarily your position, but I'd like someone to make this case... and I'll settle for subjectively...

 

For a long time I've conceded it, but the more I look, the less obvious this is given that I see Goff's floor as having already cleared the greatest hurdle pro QBs must hurdle.

For me Goff's floor is Alex Smith/Andy Dalton. But of course this is always subjective.

 

As for Wentz' ceiling, who knows.

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As for Wentz' ceiling, who knows.

 

Hopefully someone calling for Wentz over Goff at #2...

 

Problem is that it is not just ceiling height; it is probability of the ceiling being reached.

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Caron #2 then Braxton at #31. Let them develope and grow together.

What could possibly go wrong...

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You mean ignore RG3's pro-bowl, rookie of the year time and only look at those years where he's not played? Sure. Same could be said of Austin Davis or Brandon Weeden.

Yes ignore the pre injury RG3 and look at 2014 when he played like absolute garbage and 2015 where he never sniffed the field.

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Wentz may objectively have the higher ceiling, but if he's not ready to start immediately - and at some point this season he'll have to start, you can be sure of that - there's a very good chance he gets destroyed before he can reach that ceiling. If Goff, as he appears to be, is ready to start on day 1, but maybe doesn't have a HoF ceiling, he's still more likely to have success with the browns than Wentz.

 

Just my 2p.

Really think Hue knows he could coach Goff or Wentz. (not comparing just thinking) Goff as (Marriota) could not stay on field

with continued hits. Wentz as (Winston) with size absorbed same hits but stayed on field. But is that worth passing on Goff's anticipation, level of competition and better on touch passes? Sure Goff took some hits @ Cal with no OL imo. Wentz had arm trouble in HS baseball & now coming off a wrist. Hits at the next level, It maybe Wentz. Tuff call.

 

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But is that worth passing on Goff's anticipation,

 

level of competition

 

touch passes?

 

 

1) Good question. Probably Goff's best quality, IMO.

 

2) Doesn't matter whatsoever.

 

3) Not true whatsoever.

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For some reason, SF will keep Kaepernick. RG3 won't be going to SF.

 

I don't trust the media & trust the 49ers braintrust even less, so... photo-thumb-413.jpg?_r=1451713240 Most of all, I really don't care what the 49ers do.

Mike

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1) Good question. Probably Goff's best quality, IMO.

 

2) Doesn't matter whatsoever. (Does when your comparing Goff's to Wentz Competition level. But Flaco made it..)

 

3) Not true whatsoever. (Touch on pass & ball location over defenders on outs & swings. I like Goff when it gets faster. Trust Hue can make Wentz better tough.)

We Bark, & somewhat disagree but that's ok..

 

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We Bark, & somewhat disagree but that's ok..

 

 

The only instances I think competition level truly matters is when a guy's ONLY claim to fame is the gaudy numbers he put up against inferior talent - which isn't the case with Wentz, nor was it with Flacco or Ben, for that matter. Similarly, the argument of "how good can the guy be if no schools offered him" is a fallacy (though it's not an argument you were making, it was just a train of though thing).

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The only instances I think competition level truly matters is when a guy's ONLY claim to fame is the gaudy numbers he put up against inferior talent -

 

Agree it's not a make or break, all or nothing factor, but competition level makes it harder to evaluate any position on the field. You just can't gauge performance as well... greater extrapolation.

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Agree it's not a make or break, all or nothing factor, but competition level makes it harder to evaluate any position on the field. You just can't gauge performance as well... greater extrapolation.

I don't think "performance" in the traditional sense is what should be gauged anyway. A guy throws for a hundred TD's an no INT's? Cool...doesn't change the way mustard tastes. I'd take a prospect who never threw a touchdown pass in his life if he checked the right boxes.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less the outcome of a play when it comes to QB. Once the ball is thrown, I go to the next play anyway. In some cases, lack of playmakers can be a benefit - less chance of reliance on a "crutch".

 

Competition level only matters to me for one reason:

 

1) Why is the guy there? Why isn't he at another, bigger program? Was he a four-year QB who went unscouted? Was he a transition from another position? Did he have a bunch of injuries? Was he too small/too slow?

 

If there are legitimate reasons a guy is at a small school, it shouldn't be a knock on him whatsoever.

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