bbedward Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Similar size, similar arm strength....similar inconsistency. Actually Blaine Gabbert was more like Wentz 6'5, 235, 10" hands. Was regarded as more athletic and was known for having exceptional arm strength. I think you're the only one saying Goff is like Gabbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 .. and heels dug in... Was definitely never concerned about his size, and the crazy thing about Wentz is he was something like 5'7 and 150 pounds as a freshman, LOL. (I could be a little off, but it was something like that). Slightly off as that is a HS story.. - Goff is better at making reads, better accuracy, better footwork, better awareness (he never looks at pressure but he always knows where it is), and is much quicker going through progressions (he is also always light on his feet and turning his body as he scans the field - similar to Rodgers). Wentz tends to lock on to his first read and predetermines a lot of throws. He leads guys too far sometimes, is more raw in all these categories. This^... while I agree with the rest of the statement, the key factor needed a slight tweak IMO. When one QB is already clearing the highest career hurdle a FBS QB can face while another has not showed the ability to clear a lower, Division I hurdle, there is no competition. Someone above mentioned Bortles... given Wentz's very limited experience at QB, I think the better comp is Tannehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Actually Blaine Gabbert was more like Wentz 6'5, 235, 10" hands. Was regarded as more athletic and was known for having exceptional arm strength. I think you're the only one saying Goff is like Gabbert Slight Variations. An inch, a couple of pounds. For all I know they are both about like Gabbert.....from that standpoint that they should be viewed as potential NFL backup QBs. Though, sure....maybe put on like 10 pounds and Wentz could become like Roethlisberger. Tall strong QB from smaller school. He would only need about 10 pounds. Maybe Wentz is the guy. He has AFCN size. But then, what about Lynch's size? 6'6" 225......he is an even bigger MOFO than Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I like how all season long we talk about this QB or that QB not having it between the ears, or his mechanics aren't great, crumbles under pressure, can't read defenses, then draft time comes around and people are obsessed with size and arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 .. and heels dug in... Slightly off as that is a HS story.. This^... while I agree with the rest of the statement, the key factor needed a slight tweak IMO. When one QB is already clearing the highest career hurdle a FBS QB can face while another has not showed the ability to clear a lower, Division I hurdle, there is no competition. Someone above mentioned Bortles... given Wentz's very limited experience at QB, I think the better comp is Tannehill. Well.....see above. You don't have to play in a P5 conference to become a good NFL QB.....See BR, Flacco, Fitzgerald, Bortles, Romo, Kaepernick (still some potential), Carr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Maybe Wentz is the guy. He has AFCN size. But then, what about Lynch's size? 6'6" 225......he is an even bigger MOFO than Wentz. It's not about the size, it's how you use it I'm just sick of getting boners over ideal size and arm strength. We have a guy with the right mechanics, dime accuracy, reading defenses (usually is correct pre-snap at identifying where the blitz is coming and coverage) available in 2016 - who is younger than the other 2 prospects no less. I don't see how we pass that up for 2", 20 pounds, and a stronger arm (though I don't think our FO will, only some fans seem to want to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Well.....see above. You don't have to play in a P5 conference to become a good NFL QB.....See BR, Flacco, Fitzgerald, Bortles, Romo, Kaepernick (still some potential), Carr Who wants a "good" QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I love hearing about the measurables, but I also think it can be somewhat overrated. At the same time, having ideal size and strength certainly isn't a BAD thing. What I really like about Wentz receiving so much buzz is that it makes me think we don't have to trade up to get Goff. Now, I realize a lot has to happen in order for Wentz to be considered the same caliber as Goff, but if our talent evaluators have Wentz (or Lynch for that matter) graded out about the same as Goff, then I have no problem with taking him at #2. Would it be nice to move back a few slots and still get our guy while acquiring more picks? Sure it would, but I don't want to get screwed either. I'm not sure you take a chance when it comes to getting your QB, and if we trade back, even just a couple slots, that would leave room for another team to make a crazy trade proposal and leap frog us. THAT, I'm not cool with. By just about all accounts, we need a young QB, and using the draft to get our guy seems the best way to handle this matter. Trading for a viable starter is rare, and we'd either get a guy at the end of his rope, or somebody with too many question marks. No, I think the draft is the way to go, and I think that's what we do. Just look at the four teams that competed in the championship games. Brady is the only guy that wasn't drafted in the first round, and I think it's safe to say he's simply a freak of nature and NFL statistics. The other three teams not only had first round QB's, they were #1 OVERALL picks I believe. I'm certainly not saying that Goff, Wentz, or Lynch is rated anywhere near as high as the likes of Palmer, Newton, or Manning, but the point is they were picked in the first round, and I think that's the way we have to go. Would I like to draft a Bosa, Ramsey, or Tunsil and grab a starting QB in the second? Hell yes I would, but we don't have that luxury in my opinion. We've had one day of senior bowl practice, and this is the just the beginning of a long process in which hundreds of talent scouts will pick the new QB candidates apart. Wentz has jaw dropping physical stats, and I also read that the guy has something like a 4.0 GPA in college. So he appears to be gifted both mentally and physically. I'm very interested in seeing how this develops, and the more I read, the more I think we could be drafting this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy07 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Here's what I think about Wentz vs Goff: - Goff is better at making reads, better accuracy, better footwork, better awareness (he never looks at pressure but he always knows where it is), and is much quicker going through progressions (he is also always light on his feet and turning his body as he scans the field - similar to Rodgers). Wentz tends to lock on to his first read and predetermines a lot of throws. He leads guys too far sometimes, is more raw in all these categories. - Wentz has ideal size, more arm strength, and is more athletic. - Wentz played in a "pro-style" system except he did it against non-NFL talent, and only did it for 1 1/2 years worth of games. - Wentz broke his throwing wrist in october 2015 - missed 2+ months of action after surgery. Also broke is forearm or something in high school IIRC - Wentz is almost 2 years older than Goff (23 versus 21). You can put Goff in a pro system for 1 1/2 years and he'd be younger than Wentz is today - with more experience than Wentz has today. The only reason anybody is rating Wentz so high is because of potential. Ok he could become Joe Flacco or he could become Blaine Gabbert. Enough of the ideal size arm strength bull shit. Take the damn guy who's younger and does everything else well enough to be much closer to a "sure thing" Wentz is the guy we should trade up to #22 for, Goff is the guy we should take at #2. Just sayin' If wentz is second qb off the board, no way he's still there at 22, doubt he'd still be there at 22 even if 3rd qb picked, if we pass on Goff best we can hope for with #32 pick is Connor cook without trading back into top half of first round. Even then wed probably trading up for lynch over cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 If wentz is second qb off the board, no way he's still there at 22... bb was being facetious... #22 being the graveyard of Browns' QB picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 bb was being facetious... #22 being the graveyard of Browns' QB picks. We'll probably draft Goff at #2, but then give him #22 jersey somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 LOL... thankfully I do not think 22 is in the range of league approved QB numbers... Random Brain Cell Fire: I think John Hadl wore 22 years ago in the AFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 A top #NFL personnel exec at #seniorbowl told me #Browns should take QB Carson Wentz at No. 2. "They'd be set for 15 years'' - @MaryKayCabot "I think Carson Wentz could be a Top 10 pick." - @MikeMayock Senior Bowl: The hype on ND State QB Carson Wentz is pretty legit. 6-5, 233. Big frame, solid footwork + arm strength. He can sling it. - @MattBowen Just a few more tidbits from this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 At this point, I wouldn't hate either guy at QB. I do know I want the Browns nowhere near Lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 https://twitter.com/Browns/status/692171896389939200 This is a good 5 minute interview with Mayock and Wentz. My boner for the kid is now larger than bb's for Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 My boner for the kid is now larger than bb's for Goff. Well if we take Wentz at #2 when Goff is still on the board I'm going to cry during every one of the 10 super bowls Goff wins for Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy07 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 You two and your boner measuring contest LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Well if we take Wentz at #2 when Goff is still on the board I'm going to cry during every one of the 10 super bowls Goff wins for Dallas. I will enjoy your tears, gypsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Impressed by that interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4692711-carson-wentz-nfl-draft-2016-north-dakota-state-scouting-report-analysis-top-10-pick-ryan-tannehill Even after just a day of Senior Bowl practices, it is clear that Wentz's vertical placement, anticipation and timing on a multitude of routes are issues. He had at least three errant throws, all a result of a lack of comfort making all the throws in contexts outside of his college offense. I said this first and got subsequently shot down as being biased for Goff and ignoring the other prospects. Especially the vertical placement and timing I said were issues a week or more ago. --- edit: Drawing similarities to former Texas A&M and current Dolphins starter Ryan Tannehill, Wentz is a still-developing quarterback who may be over-drafted and rushed in the NFL despite clearly needing time to develop at the college level. And Tour said this first. So FU guyz -- Goff threw almost as many passes in 2015 as Wentz threw in his entire career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4692711-carson-wentz-nfl-draft-2016-north-dakota-state-scouting-report-analysis-top-10-pick-ryan-tannehill I said this first and got subsequently shot down as being biased for Goff and ignoring the other prospects. Especially the vertical placement and timing I said were issues a week or more ago. --- edit: And Tour said this first. So FU guyz -- Goff threw almost as many passes in 2015 as Wentz threw in his entire career It's cute when you get flustered. You mean a QB in a spread, air-raid offense that was trailing in a majority of their games threw just as many passes in one year as a guy in a pro-style offense that rarely lost who only played the equivalent of a season and a half? That's shocking. Changed my mind, let's get Goff. Guy throws 100 passes a game. Senior Bowl: ND State QB Carson Wentz can get the ball outside the numbers all day. Deep out & comeback. Pro arm strength. - Matt Bowen "He's separating himself from everyone else" - Pat Kirwan #browns Hue Jax sat down w/ QB Carson Wentz at #seniorbowl Tues to get a feel for him. "He has a lot of characteristics looking for. Early" - Mary Kay Cabot Carson Wentz/QB/NDSU showing impressive ball speed and arm strength in the adverse weather conditions today. Ball cutting through wind. - Tony Pauline "So far, Carson has certainly played like he belongs here in Mobile among the best senior prospects in the draft." - Dane Brugler This guy is going to be our quarterback, unless he rockets up to number one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 It's cute when you get flustered. Just trying to derail the hype train. One senior bowl practice and now everybody wants to spend the #2 overall pick on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 In the past I seem to remember TC being leery of late, fast-risers... like Tannehill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Just trying to derail the hype train. One senior bowl practice and now everybody wants to spend the #2 overall pick on him. For me, it was more of an absolutely stellar career and growth in his one and a half years as QB. Plus the physical tools, the mental tools and the overall acceptable personality. In the past I seem to remember TC being leery of late, fast-risers... like Tannehill. You'd be right. I firmly believe that nothing done after the season should matter, which means that late risers are normally just combine warriors with inflated stock. However, I was also saying that I'd rather we take Wentz than anyone else while the season was still in play - so this case is different. His meteoric ascension right now is just proof of what I, and a few others, have already been talking about. I was also on the Bortles train very early, for the record. Very similar case here, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Actually Blaine Gabbert was more like Wentz 6'5, 235, 10" hands. Was regarded as more athletic and was known for having exceptional arm strength. I think you're the only one saying Goff is like Gabbert Yeah- I did a little research..... Slight Variations. An inch, a couple of pounds. For all I know they are both about like Gabbert.....from that standpoint that they should be viewed as potential NFL backup QBs. Though, sure....maybe put on like 10 pounds and Wentz could become like Roethlisberger. Tall strong QB from smaller school. He would only need about 10 pounds. Maybe Wentz is the guy. He has AFCN size. But then, what about Lynch's size? 6'6" 225......he is an even bigger MOFO than Wentz. Gip here's a couple pre-draft comments on Gabbert. Goff is not Gabbert. And regarding "ideal NFL size" Neither are Brees, or Wilson. Rodgers in 6'2. Goff is far from a midget @ 6'4". "In the Missouri spread, he often doesn’t have to see the entire field, generally making just one or two reads and get the ball out. In the NFL, he will need to improve his pocket awareness, and see the field better to make smart throws in case his top option is covered. His decision making has been somewhat errant at times, as he can be a bit of a risk taker, sometimes too confident in his ability to sling the ball into tight spots." Strengths: Quick release and fluid throwing motion Top shelf arm strength and velocity Ideal NFL frame Relatively mobile for his size Able to properly lead receivers Very accurate with short range throwsWeaknesses: Product of spread offense Must learn to go through progressions Limited experience under center Needs to work on pocket presence Only two years as starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 For me, it was more of an absolutely stellar career and growth in his one and a half years as QB. Plus the physical tools, the mental tools and the overall acceptable personality. You'd be right. I firmly believe that nothing done after the season should matter, which means that late risers are normally just combine warriors with inflated stock. However, I was also saying that I'd rather we take Wentz than anyone else while the season was still in play - so this case is different. His meteoric ascension right now is just proof of what I, and a few others, have already been talking about. I was also on the Bortles train very early, for the record. Very similar case here, in my opinion. I'll leave it to Hue and the analytics guys to make the call. I'm leaning towards Goff, but if we take Wentz, I won't be upset. Lynch is captain dump off, no thanks. And I'm not big on mental tools, unless you're talking football smarts. If smarts counted, Ryan Fitzpatrick would be an all-pro every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 May the M. Schwartz be with you. As Sashi sits in Alabama, rumor has it Schwartz is talking with Banner on his value which may bring Tunsill or ? in conversation? (do you trust erving?) Benji no deal. Still a lot of Sh** can happen. Keep pounding them pancakes, but we maybe going later rounds on a QB gems. Got any of those?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wow, we have Camp Wentz v Camp Goff already, could be a good offseason. I see there is a strong Pro-Bosa base too. The best was still 1999 when we were so starving for Browns football that it consumed us. Camp Couch versus Ricky "Small Hands" Williams, and Camp Trade Down (later known as The Ditka Trade), with appearances by Akili "A lot of RPMs" Smith, Donovan "Mr. Inaccurate" McNabb and Skippy's favorite ... Andy "Big Dumb Redneck" Katzenmoyer. When we drafted Couch the other groups combined to form "The Dark Side" The next year was Courtney Brown vs. Lavar Arrington, with some love for Peter Warrick. I wanted Arrington, but had a thing for Shaun Alexander too. Jamal Lewis was the pick of course, and he ran for a million yards against the Courtney Brown defense. No one mentioned that gangly QB who backed up Brian Griese and platooned with Drew Henson at Michigan ... who we passed up for Spergon Wynn in the 6th round ... but then again, Woody wasn't around then. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Schwartz is talking with Banner on his value I wasn't sure you meant Mitchell Schwartz and Joe Banner, it seemed odd, so I googled and ... why yes, they are discussing FA value. And Joe is doing us no favors: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_mitchell_schw_2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Joe Banner, it seemed odd, And Joe is doing us no favors: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_mitchell_schw_2.html & again FU Joe Banner.. & I assume Banner drafted Schwartz? sounds like his agent has all the help Schwartz needs $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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