Canton Mike Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command. That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Are we really sure Pagano is that great of a coach? He "lucked" into a franchise QB and Arians coached that team for most of his first year anyways. I know he's won more games than Pettine has here...but are we really sure he's a great coach? I like Pags. I think he's done a great job this year with the hand he was dealt, and his teams always seem prepared and they play hard........ Just a gut feel on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command. That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens. Mike totally agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Keep 'em all. Even Farmer. Even O'Neill! Just get more juice at your position coach spots. Our guys are inexperienced, and suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I say, "Stay the Course"! Keep everything in place, build off what we have and if we don't eclipse a .500 season next year then we will have to pull the plug. But for right now, I feel like we need to invest in continuity. Maybe this scheme will work with a little more time towards adjustments. With the Browns getting Gordon back, a draft that might hold the number 1 overall pick to go along with a good draft class, getting Ekpre next season and just development from all our guys... we have a shot here to make a hell of a good football team. Pettine needs to be better. O'Neil needs to be better. Special Teams, specifically field goal unit, needs to be better. The micromanaging of the D line needs to stop. Guys like Shelton need to be in there for 3 downs, make the other team dread hitting our wall. Get some monsters out there and let them feast. But, I say we stay the course. Unless we can pry The Oz from Baltimore to come and be our GM and Gruden wants the Head Coaching Job.. hold firm and lets see if we can build something here. The longer we have continuity the faster and better our guys will be able to play. With knowing all the exceptions to the rules and where the plays are to be made... just build, invest and embrace the process. Superbowl next year, Gordon is the comeback player of the year. The Defense and Offense rank in the top 5 and our Gameplans are much more effective. Go Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'm in agreement PG and also with Mike. We do need experience, but this doesn't mean we have to fire. Continuity could well be the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 To keep everyone for the sake of continuity is not the answer....and even if it is, who has the patience? I really liked Pettine, but I think there is a lot going on that we just don't even know about. What if Pettine is the one who sabotaged this whole mess this season? We sign Bowe....he doesn't play him....we have Manziel...he doesn't play him until it's too late to really evaluate him. I have a feeling that this marriage between Farmer and Pettine has been a disaster...even worse than we think, from day one. If the plan is to keep Manziel, then Pettine absolutely has to go. If the plan is to get rid of Manziel, then Pettine still has to go. If he couldn't compromise for the sake of winning games in the past, he will only drag us down further...if that's possible. Farmer is incompetent and doesn't have one clue on how to evaluate talent. He should have been gone already, except for one possibility. Most media and fans believe that Farmer was the " fall guy" and took the heat for drafting Manziel, when it was actually an order from Haslam. If Farmer is still here after Monday, then we know this is true. Fire them all and hire a respected football person to build the management and the team. This is what most of us agree on. If Haslam picks the right individual, he will have enough influence to attract a decent coach and GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 The problem is that despite the bluster and the pontifications on this board we really don't know anything about the personal dynamics among the three key players. If I were Jimmy Haslam I do my best to get the general manager and the head coach to open up and tell me their honest feelings. It could be that they are on the same page and just fucking everything up. It could be Pet resents Farmer, and if so might be subconsciously undermining the pics. If Jimmy really is calling the shots, as in Johnny, then it doesn't matter who the coach is. If I were the owner I'd sit down with Johnny and ask him to come clean about his feelings about playing in Cleveland and his relationship with the coaching staff. Then and only then what I consider a trade with Dallas who sucks without Tony Romo. Problem is that if the head coach and GM don't get along that's a bad sign. The harder you force it the more resentment you get. But the fact is either the players are up to par or they're not being used very well. If we disregard injuries look at Paul Kruger. He was fine last year, but now playing in a different situation... I don't know enough about football to tell you if Mingo has been properly used, but I hear a lot of pundits questioning that. Of course if you should can the coach and GM I would imagine the coordinators would be replaced. And personally I'd like to start 2016 with a commitment to Johnny as he builds and on the field relationship with Gordon. A healthy Brian Hartline and another good year from Gary Barnidge and a toughened up defense with Joey Bosa and better luck with a defensive back at the top of the second round and a little easier last place schedule and I'm looking at a marked improvement on the season. Of course all of this rests on Jimmy's ability to talk with men and get some straight answers. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I agree, but I still want a new DCActually pet should get some blame for that. I mean he brought in his buddy, right? He can't sit down with him and get the shit together? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andeftw Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Wolf is promising, wouldn't have been promoted by the Packers if that wasn't the case. Expect an out clause in the contract though, he's going to head back to GB once Thompson retires in 2018 if he does well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Chuck Pagano would be an excellent choice. Actually pet should get some blame for that. I mean he brought in his buddy, right? He can't sit down with him and get the shit together? WSS Okay, so may the first rookie Head Coach without sin pick up the first rock to throw at Pettine. Can BB even pick up a rock here? Is anyone else with a pulse noticing what Khalil Mack is doing this year? Even guys that can only focus on QBs can't miss this guy hurrying passers into sacks or bad decisions. It's scary to know he wasn't even an option for Farmer at #4 overall. I mean playing in the MAC conference vrs a bunch of teams in Ohio really made him a needle in a haystack for Farmer's troops. Good Lord! Here's where we have remained since 1999 - a FO that keeps its Head Coaches playing gridiron chess with pawns. If you want to know how it feels - challenge someone to a game of chess letting them use all their attack pieces while you just use you pawns. Seems to me, this is the first staff that extracted excellence from Benjamin and Barnidge. At the same time, they managed to show a lot of Josh McCown critics he's not a bad QB at all. It's also the first staff that had a 7-4 run throughout an excessive volume of injuries coming off 4-12 football the year before. Of all the people that should know about rookie mistakes it should be Jimmy Haslem who continues to make a ton of them. If he keeps a dumb bastard like Farmer - the next Head Coach is only going to be 1 symptom of a terminal illness to this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25434733/reports-mike-pettine-could-be-coaching-his-final-game-with-browns-sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If Im Jimmy......I probably keep both for another year and just complete what I started.....BUT..... I would insist on improving the Coaching staff....especially the position coaches(add as much experience as possible)....AND... ....I would replace Oneill, with someone qualified to step in as HC for Pettine, as a built in safeguard going into 2016.... That way there is an answer if things dont improve out of the chute and a mid season change has to happen.... But....if someone is getting fired now, no matter what?......Id cut Farmer first...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25434733/reports-mike-pettine-could-be-coaching-his-final-game-with-browns-sunday Last weeks buzz was Farmer......this weeks buzz is Pettine....... And, if we clean house AGAIN.....the funny part is that the person most obviously fucking up....over and over.....is Haslem. This blurb, from the article above, says it all...... "Also, he is the coach of a 3-win team and working for an organization that specializes in firing its head coach every two years or so. It's dumb to give anyone less than three years as a head coach, but Cleveland canning Pettine wouldn't be surprising at this point" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I wouldn't hate hue jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Okay, so may the first rookie Head Coach without sin pick up the first rock to throw at Pettine. Can BB even pick up a rock here? . As I have said often enough I vote for continuity. That being said why does he get a pass for this shitso defense? Pet got his job here because he was a defensive coordinator. On top of that O'Neill is his old assistant. Coach can't just take him aside and point out things that are fucked up? I don't mind passing on a little benefit of the doubt but he wasn't hired to be an intern, he was hired to be the head coach. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Last weeks buzz was Farmer......this weeks buzz is Pettine....... And, if we clean house AGAIN.....the funny part is that the person most obviously fucking up....over and over.....is Haslem. This blurb, from the article above, says it all...... "Also, he is the coach of a 3-win team and working for an organization that specializes in firing its head coach every two years or so. It's dumb to give anyone less than three years as a head coach, but Cleveland canning Pettine wouldn't be surprising at this point" Well said Mud. So Jimmy of all people should understand the rookie mistakes thing should deserve a chance to allow the rookie to overcome the mistakes. We can STILL hire former Baltimore Defensive Coach now serving as Irsay's scapegoat (Chuck Pagano) to join Pettine's staff as our DC here. The biggest evil here has to be a personnel guy that doesn't even know who Khalil Mack is any more than he knows who Justin Gilbert is. He's had 4 first round picks in just 2 years with only 1 of them looking like he can eventually justify the draft value. Here's some things I'd like to know about Farmer since he's responsible for our personnel: Who does he have working for him in the scouting dept? How much does he weigh their time, energy and research? Does he have enough scouts since 7 of 12 darftees came from 1 conference? Does he know the difference between best football ahead vrs best football in the rear view mirror (ie; Dwayne Bowe)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 So you want to find someone to promote to defensive coordinator that has the chops to be the head coach? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 i think that's wishful thinking at this point. I think alot of the proven guys look at it that they might get Jimmy to part with alot of cash, but the experience here ruins their careers. Why would a Cowher or Gruden come to an organization as dysfunctional as this where there's no hope of turning things around quickly enough to satisfy the fan base that will be calling for them to be tarred and feathered halfway through the 1st season of what would necessarily be a minimum of a 4 year project? Why? You know full well that Gruden could sign on with us and the boners on this board for him woudl be raging......till literally 7 games into next season when we'll be lucky to have won a game or two. I think we have more talent than you give us credit for. A good coaching staff would have gotten a lot more out of the talent we have on both sides of the ball. If a new coach is given assurance he can address a pass rusher and QB in the draft I think we can attract talent. A new staff that designs a D around our player strengths likely gives us a top 10 defense. The return of Gordon and moving back to zone blocking upgrade our O immensely with MCcown at the helm Maybe I'm just a homer but I really don't think we are that far away on talent alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1216 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command. That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens. Mike Bernie Kosar for President Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I would get rid of Farmer. He was the main reason Shanahan left, and Dieken says that Pettine has weekly clashes with him. Not to mention, Farmer couldn't pick his ass even if he used a flashlight and a map. It would also help if Farmer would actually attend pro days (like most other GM's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 So you want to find someone to promote to defensive coordinator that has the chops to be the head coach? WSS Yes.....think it would make some sense...at least it would add a little security going forward.... This year, if Jimmy had wanted to fire Pettine, it was pretty clear that we had no one on this staff that was qualified to step in.....as the entire staff(top to bottom) is pretty much an all rookie cast....learning on the fly..... And if a rookie head coach gets a few(3 or 4?) mulligans for making mistakes.....how many mulligans do we get for a rookie HC, 2 rookie coordinators, 8 rookie position coaches, a rookie GM, a rookie President, a rookie owner and 8-10 rookie and 2nd year players.......all learning at the same time?....cause I count a hella lot of mistake potential there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 And if a rookie head coach gets a few(3 or 4?) mulligans for making mistakes.....how many mulligans do we get for a rookie HC, 2 rookie coordinators, 8 rookie position coaches, a rookie GM, a rookie President, a rookie owner and 8-10 rookie and 2nd year players.......all learning at the same time?....cause I count a hella lot of mistake potential there.... What could possibly go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 See....I dont even get these rumors......(and what does "extensive work" mean????)..... The Browns are described as having an over achieving offense, with Flip being one of the season bright spots.... And a team with an under performing defense.....which is the primary reason this team isnt winning..... So.....good offense - bad defense.....and the rumor is that we want to hire an offensive coach to fix it?.... Ok...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 What could possibly go wrong? How about a new rookie head coach??....now that his one has some experience and might be figuring it out.... And we can watch him flail about, trying to learn his job(with the ole massive 2 year axe hanging over his head)....whilst also trying to win without a single impact player.......on Offense or Defense.... THAT should be awesome!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andeftw Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 See....I dont even get these rumors......(and what does "extensive work" mean????)..... Gase pulled out of the Browns coaching search, so I'd assume extensive work refers to the amount of research they did on him back then. I would think they were also interested in bringing him in as the offensive coordinator when Fox was canned by the Broncos. I would prioritise the GM search. Let him pick whether to give Pettine one more year or if he should bring in a new coach. I'd be happy to keep Flip here next season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Oh maybe, but by the time in the season it becomes apparent that the worst is happening who cares what temp is elevated to head coach for the remainder of the games? We have a tough enough time promoting a coordinator to head coach, let alone promoting somebody's line coach to coordinator to head coach any seasons time Maybe for enough money Gruden would like to be DC? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 How about a new rookie head coach??....now that his one has some experience and might be figuring it out.... And we can watch him flail about, trying to learn his job(with the ole massive 2 year axe hanging over his head)....whilst also trying to win without a single impact player.......on Offense or Defense.... THAT should be awesome!!!!! There are those who think there will come a day, when some rookie HC prodigy will ride into town on his white stallion and take us to the SB in his first year. Yet those are the same folks that will want his head on a stick as soon as we go 0-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Fire both and then fire himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 We have a tough enough time promoting a coordinator to head coach, let alone promoting somebody's line coach to coordinator to head coach any seasons time Maybe for enough money Gruden would like to be DC? Ha!....Id def like someone experienced, like Gruden, as a coordinator...which is kind of my point.... Like you just said.....it IS tough enough just promoting a coordinator to HC.....so lets not get into a situation where we can be forced into promoting a QB coach.....to OC ....to HC all in one season.....which is where we'd be right now, had they wanted to fire Pettine earlier this season.....(ala Philbin) I liked what they did for Chud, by bringing in 2 top coordinators with extensive histories and past success.....by doing that, he had a world of experience right at his finger tips.....and, hey, if they wanted to fire him, then Norv Turner x -nfl coach is waiting in the wings..... But, Pettine has none of that...cause there's not one person within the organization that has the experience to help anybody with anything.....and thats across the board..... So....bringing in another inexperienced guy, by promoting another position coach to DC or promoting another coordinator to HC, is brutally unexciting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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