Canton Dawg Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Kelly inherited a decent team looking to go to the next level. He had some success with the players they had, including Shady, Foles, Jackson, & Maclin, then he wanted to run it all his own way, sung a browns-worthy trade for Sam Bradford, is surprised at his non-elitenes and injury proneness, and his team is now sitting at 4-7. What about this exactly screams 'hire me just as soon as I'm fired from my current job'? The Philly fan base and media have turned on Chip, so the writing is on the wall that he will be gone at season's end. I would guess that his next HC gig will be in the college ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yup, fully expect that. Or maybe Tennessee, back with Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yup, fully expect that. Or maybe Tennessee, back with Mariota. Do you think Chip would take a step down and be an OC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Unlikely, he seems arrogant. But he might also manage to persuade them to give him the HC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 .... he seems arrogant..... seems???.......HA! Trust me, he is.......(very)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Another point worth mentioning is coaches not wanting to coach in Cleveland because they know if they have a rough start they may get tossed. That can happen in every market. And you don't have to have a rough start. Kelly was 10-6 and 10-6 in his first year, and now after giving up 45 points in consecutive games, the entire city wants him gone. How long did Whisenhunt last in Tenn. I think they hired him the same time the Browns hired Pettine. And McCoy in SD.....again, I think hired same year as Pettine....and he may be gone. And the only thing that reprieved Joe Philbin in Miami for a while was that he....or was it his wife....had cancer. They basically fired John Fox in Denver after having gone to the playoffs like every year there. Who would want to possibly go to a situation like that? So....it is stupid to conclude that no one would come here because they may get fired if they don't succeed. Every single fucking coach in the NFL is susceptible of being fired if they do not succeed. Two losing seasons in a row in Pittsburgh and they would probably start calling for Tomlin's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 For the love of Christ can we keep someone around for atleast three years, oh yeah I forgot Browns 101 keep changing so it never gets better. For the love of Christ can we have someone start coaching to the point that the team is playing competitively and perhaps even winning? Sorry....but as far as I am concerned.....the reason the Browns are having such a bad season is purely based on the terrible coaching they are receiving from this group. Period. They have as much or more talent than 2/3rds of the teams in the NFL.....but they have a losing culture. And if a coach wants to stay.....come in and win. At least be competitive and approach a .500 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runyon27 Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 That can happen in every market. And you don't have to have a rough start. Kelly was 10-6 and 10-6 in his first year, and now after giving up 45 points in consecutive games, the entire city wants him gone. How long did Whisenhunt last in Tenn. I think they hired him the same time the Browns hired Pettine. And McCoy in SD.....again, I think hired same year as Pettine....and he may be gone. And the only thing that reprieved Joe Philbin in Miami for a while was that he....or was it his wife....had cancer. They basically fired John Fox in Denver after having gone to the playoffs like every year there. Who would want to possibly go to a situation like that? So....it is stupid to conclude that no one would come here because they may get fired if they don't succeed. Every single fucking coach in the NFL is susceptible of being fired if they do not succeed. Two losing seasons in a row in Pittsburgh and they would probably start calling for Tomlin's head. Sure there are examples of other teams screwing up and pulling the trigger early, does not mean we need too. I think Pettine had issues, like sticking with his DC far too long, that unit should be way better than it is. But I am looking at the long game, if we use your criteria, then Ron Rivera and Marvin Lewis would not be around today. I can tell you for a fact people were calling for Rivera's head in his second season and now his team is now 11-0. So give Pettine and Farmer one more year, the offense and defense more time in the same season. I mean we have had 6 differenct OCs the last 6 yrs, very hard to win that way. Lets get some stability, show other we are willing to give things time. To me the examples you listed are things NOT to do. You think Kubiak is a better HC than John Fox? Look what Fox has done in Chicago already? Denver is in a slow burn to collapse. Titans still suck, they gave whisenthunt like 3 games with Marriotta at the helm? Dumb as hell. And SD has been decimated I mean decimated by injuries and still have remained competitive in many games. Pettine needs to stay and he needs to dump O'Neil. And Farmer need to let the HC be the HC. You keep the 1/2 yr churn going you will not get the top coaching candidates and the players once they lose a few will say here we go again. You have to change the culture, firing Petitine keeps the status quo the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Still a better coach than Mike Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Sure there are examples of other teams screwing up and pulling the trigger early, does not mean we need too. I think Pettine had issues, like sticking with his DC far too long, that unit should be way better than it is. But I am looking at the long game, if we use your criteria, then Ron Rivera and Marvin Lewis would not be around today. I can tell you for a fact people were calling for Rivera's head in his second season and now his team is now 11-0. So give Pettine and Farmer one more year, the offense and defense more time in the same season. I mean we have had 6 differenct OCs the last 6 yrs, very hard to win that way. Lets get some stability, show other we are willing to give things time. To me the examples you listed are things NOT to do. You think Kubiak is a better HC than John Fox? Look what Fox has done in Chicago already? Denver is in a slow burn to collapse. Titans still suck, they gave whisenthunt like 3 games with Marriotta at the helm? Dumb as hell. And SD has been decimated I mean decimated by injuries and still have remained competitive in many games. Pettine needs to stay and he needs to dump O'Neil. And Farmer need to let the HC be the HC. You keep the 1/2 yr churn going you will not get the top coaching candidates and the players once they lose a few will say here we go again. You have to change the culture, firing Petitine keeps the status quo the status quo. My point simply was in response to Vag......I showed him where other teams besides the Browns had quick triggers on firing coaches. I am not urging the firing of Pettine......his DC...yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Wisenhunt should have been fired after last years lost to the Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 That can happen in every market. And you don't have to have a rough start. Kelly was 10-6 and 10-6 in his first year, and now after giving up 45 points in consecutive games, the entire city wants him gone. How long did Whisenhunt last in Tenn. I think they hired him the same time the Browns hired Pettine. And McCoy in SD.....again, I think hired same year as Pettine....and he may be gone. And the only thing that reprieved Joe Philbin in Miami for a while was that he....or was it his wife....had cancer. They basically fired John Fox in Denver after having gone to the playoffs like every year there. Who would want to possibly go to a situation like that? So....it is stupid to conclude that no one would come here because they may get fired if they don't succeed. Every single fucking coach in the NFL is susceptible of being fired if they do not succeed. Two losing seasons in a row in Pittsburgh and they would probably start calling for Tomlin's head. Does it matter what the fans want? The Rooney's certainly wouldn't be looking to fire him unless they were seeing a dramatic regression. Fans in certain circles have been calling for his firing for the team going 8-8 a couple seasons in a row and missing the playoffs. Fan opinion should count for zero when making personel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 lets be honest.....last season the team improved and we all loved Pettine and were on board for him to get more time than the previous regimes..... Now......less than a year later, the team is doing worse......or has regressed.......and everyone wants him out.... So....the criteria has become that he should be fired BECAUSE the team has gotten worse?...... If thats the case....then more than 1/2 the coaches in the league should be fired immediately.....(17 teams currently have worse records than last season)......(I guess the ravens should fire Ozzie AND Harbaugh, considering they didnt get better and actually have destroyed a playoff team) So far its been fire Pettine cause the team is regressing.....or fire Oneill because the D sucks.....or fire Farmer cause the talent sucks..... How about actually figuring out the problem and making a move to correct it, rather than wiping the whole slate clean just to make sure we've eliminated the cause?....... Knee jerk decisions have killed this team....and if we go and fire em all again?.....then it shall continue..... what do they say about History repeating itself??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Never said he was. That would be the only coach I'd want at this point in time other than Mike Pettine. Even if the hoodie wanted to be in Cleveland, no thanks unless it was a GM. He is in Michigan because he sucked in the pros. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 He is in Michigan because he sucked in the pros. WSS That's a joke right. 44-19-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 For the love of Christ can we have someone start coaching to the point that the team is playing competitively and perhaps even winning? Sorry....but as far as I am concerned.....the reason the Browns are having such a bad season is purely based on the terrible coaching they are receiving from this group. Period. They have as much or more talent than 2/3rds of the teams in the NFL.....but they have a losing culture. And if a coach wants to stay.....come in and win. At least be competitive and approach a .500 record. Cause your high. The Browns are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Does it matter what the fans want? The Rooney's certainly wouldn't be looking to fire him unless they were seeing a dramatic regression. Fans in certain circles have been calling for his firing for the team going 8-8 a couple seasons in a row and missing the playoffs. Fan opinion should count for zero when making personel decisions. No, you are right....it doesn't matter what the fans want....and the Rooney's certainly would not fire him.... ....but my point simply is.....the Fans there WOULD be calling for his firing....even though it would count for nothing....it would still happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Cause your high. The Browns are awful. The Browns are awful......mainly because they are coached terribly. So you are right. I see where maybe they have at most 3-4 spots that could/should be filled/upgraded. (not counting injury) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 lets be honest.....last season the team improved and we all loved Pettine and were on board for him to get more time than the previous regimes..... Now......less than a year later, the team is doing worse......or has regressed.......and everyone wants him out.... So....the criteria has become that he should be fired BECAUSE the team has gotten worse?...... If thats the case....then more than 1/2 the coaches in the league should be fired immediately.....(17 teams currently have worse records than last season)......(I guess the ravens should fire Ozzie AND Harbaugh, considering they didnt get better and actually have destroyed a playoff team) So far its been fire Pettine cause the team is regressing.....or fire Oneill because the D sucks.....or fire Farmer cause the talent sucks..... How about actually figuring out the problem and making a move to correct it, rather than wiping the whole slate clean just to make sure we've eliminated the cause?....... Knee jerk decisions have killed this team....and if we go and fire em all again?.....then it shall continue..... what do they say about History repeating itself??? I think you're correct about a lot of things, but the difficult part of the equation is figuring out exactly what is wrong. Me and you have discussed this at great length, and the consensus is basically we need an infusion of talent...at a lot of different positions. We've been blown out in four straight games, which is a rarity in the NFL. Is talent alone enough to get us back to progressing, or is there an issue with our overall scheme? Is there something fundamentally wrong with how we go about our business? Honestly, that's above my pay grade. It's safe to say we need more talent, but I'm worried about our inability to make any corrective actions during the course of the season. If plans aren't working out, I would think a good coach might be able to figure out some methods to create some success. In Pettine's defense, it doesn't help that our secondary has been decimated by injuries, and the secondary has been victimized extensively during our blowout streak. How much of it is his fault? How many other teams can thrive when they lose their probowl DB's? Is it on Farmer's shoulders to provide the coach with better backups? Nobody is really going to have the answer, and as a fan, this is all too familiar, and way too frustrating. I've never gone on record and said "Fire Pettine!" I have suggested that maybe a new defensive coordinator could be the answer, but that doesn't seem likely, as Pettine and O'Neil go back a long way. We definitely need more talent, but we also have to play better too. We can't drop touchdowns, we can't have penalties on the one yard line, and we can't have other penalties that keep opponent's drives alive. The penalties aren't really on the coaches. That's on the players. I'm not sure firing Pettine would help, but at the same time, are we doing more damage by keeping potentially the wrong guy? I wish I knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 That's a joke right. 44-19-1 He's one of the guys that probably doesn't belong in a football discussion. Fires off what he thinks is true and then puts all the cards in that basket. when proven wrong it's deny, deny, deny. Go check out the political board. Harbaugh had a tough final season in SF and took all the blame. Kaep isn't very good. He lost a all pro middle linebacker to retirement and then lost Borland because of the concussion concern. Add in the Michigan job opening and the cards were on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think you're correct about a lot of things, but the difficult part of the equation is figuring out exactly what is wrong. Honestly, that's above my pay grade. It's safe to say we need more talent, I'm not sure firing Pettine would help, but at the same time, are we doing more damage by keeping potentially the wrong guy? I wish I knew. Well,,,,,it's above my pay scale too......Im just saying that I dont believe Farmer, Pettine & Oneill are all incompetent.... But just firing everybody again would show me that Haslem IS incompetent and has no clue whats wrong with the team or how to hire the right people..... My experience has always been that you can only win with talent....lots of talent......Ive never seen a great coach win it all without great players.....and, right now, we dont have any great players.... so, before switching coaches, Id at least wait to see what this one could do with the proper talent in place(and healthy)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well,,,,,it's above my pay scale too......Im just saying that I dont believe Farmer, Pettine & Oneill are all incompetent.... But just firing everybody again would show me that Haslem IS incompetent and has no clue whats wrong with the team or how to hire the right people..... My experience has always been that you can only win with talent....lots of talent......Ive never seen a great coach win it all without great players.....and, right now, we dont have any great players.... so, before switching coaches, Id at least wait to see what this one could do with the proper talent in place(and healthy)..... At this point.....if O'Neil would go, I would like to see what happens going forward from there. And the other thing I would change is for Ray Farmer to not be such a stubborn ass about the WR position. Get a good one high in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well,,,,,it's above my pay scale too......Im just saying that I dont believe Farmer, Pettine & Oneill are all incompetent.... But just firing everybody again would show me that Haslem IS incompetent and has no clue whats wrong with the team or how to hire the right people..... My experience has always been that you can only win with talent....lots of talent......Ive never seen a great coach win it all without great players.....and, right now, we dont have any great players.... so, before switching coaches, Id at least wait to see what this one could do with the proper talent in place(and healthy)..... The only thing that makes great players great is success - and that is largely due to utilization and supporting cast. There's no talent differential between Edelman/Amendola and Benjamin/Hawkins. Same measurables, same strengths, same weaknesses. But one group has a great coach utilizing their talents effectively and a great QB able to anticipate when they will be open and deliver them the ball in space. On paper, our team is just as talented as at least half of the league, yet we are incorrectly utilizing our players (Sheard, Mingo, Crowell), underutilizing them (Duke, kind of Hartline) or not using them at all (Bowe, GIlbert). The only talent we're really seriously missing is a three-down OLB and/or stud ILB. The only person to blame is Pettine. Farmer gave him a team of talented players, Pettine has found a way to fuck it up. I'm sure Arians, Quinn, Harbaugh, Ryan, Rivera, Fox, Pagano, Lewis, Reid, Zimmer, Belichick, Coughlin, Kelly, Carroll, Smith and Bowles could manage more than two wins with our roster. Look at New England last night - Amendola out, Lewis out, Edelman out, Gronk injured late... and they still probably should have won that game. Are New England's fourth string WR's really just head and shoulders more talented than our starters, or is it more likely that Belichick and Brady know how to use the talent they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 And if we get a new coach he will want ALL NEW PLAYERS people he picked and in 2 years by the time they get developed we will get a new mother fucking coach who will want to bring in guys that he hand picked and in 2 years we will get a new coach who wants his own guys.......... YOU CAN'T BUILD A TEAM IN 2 FUCKING YEARS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 And if we get a new coach he will want ALL NEW PLAYERS people he picked and in 2 years by the time they get developed we will get a new mother fucking coach who will want to bring in guys that he hand picked and in 2 years we will get a new coach who wants his own guys.......... YOU CAN'T BUILD A TEAM IN 2 FUCKING YEARS You can improve in two years, not regress. I don't know why the common belief is that failure = firesale. The odds that Pettine, and O'Neil, and Flip, and Farmer and all of our players are shit are astronomical. There are plenty of teams that have lost a head coach without losing a GM, or a coordinator without losing the HC. Just because one guy goes doesn't mean you scrap it all and start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 And if we get a new coach he will want ALL NEW PLAYERS people he picked and in 2 years by the time they get developed we will get a new mother fucking coach who will want to bring in guys that he hand picked and in 2 years we will get a new coach who wants his own guys.......... YOU CAN'T BUILD A TEAM IN 2 FUCKING YEARS agreed, but we regressed in a big time way...from game 12 last yr to present day. We lose tonight, we lose the rest of the games, bank on it..even frisco will kick our ass. So it that is the case, we go 2-14, yeah, there better be some changes made because after yr 2 we are going backwards man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 The Browns are awful......mainly because they are coached terribly. So you are right. I see where maybe they have at most 3-4 spots that could/should be filled/upgraded. (not counting injury) Again Cleveland has maybe 6 players that other teams would want as a starter Benjamin, Barnidge, Schwartz, Thomas, Mack and Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Well,,,,,it's above my pay scale too......Im just saying that I dont believe Farmer, Pettine & Oneill are all incompetent.... But just firing everybody again would show me that Haslem IS incompetent and has no clue whats wrong with the team or how to hire the right people..... My experience has always been that you can only win with talent....lots of talent......Ive never seen a great coach win it all without great players.....and, right now, we dont have any great players.... so, before switching coaches, Id at least wait to see what this one could do with the proper talent in place(and healthy)..... If Mud and I agree it must be true but this is exactly what needs to be said. If we get the right talent and still can't win, see Detroit, then fire the coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Again Cleveland has maybe 6 players that other teams would want as a starter Benjamin, Barnidge, Schwartz, Thomas, Mack and Lee. I'd still take Haden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawg08 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Let's please hope Pettine is still around next year or we're gonna get another round of the sports world laughing and peeing on us. That being said, if Manning says i'll be the OC if you hire Dungy as HC.....ok deal. Then people would understand why we fired Pettine. But if we fire pettine and go into beggar mode again, "pweeeeeessee come to Cleveland"....the franchise is done. We don't fire another head coach for YEARS without his replacement ready to go next day. Are you serious?? I understand the consistency this team needs with coaching, BUT Pettine is a joke of a coach. Tonight's coaching snafu's weren't his first or even his 2nd. This is his 2nd year and the guy still has no clue what he is doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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