BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats. Empty seats won't happen in our lifetime, supporting a loser is a badge of honor in Cleveland unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah, if you discount the spectacular TD bombs, it definitely takes some of the luster off. ... ... Now, remind me again, why am I supposed to discount the TD bombs?.... Because you can't sustain that. In today's NFL you either sling it all around and complete 65% of your passes or you have balance. TD bombs are like kick returns for TDs, awesome when they happen but can't count on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Alrighty I guess mine wasn't satisfactory. Could have been.... had you gotten the title right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 I haven't looked up the exact stats, but the frequency of 40+ yard touchdown plays is a lot higher than kick returns for TDs, so, while i get the analogy, it's not a very good one. I'm not saying success on the deep balls is everything, but, yeah, it's a big deal. Also, the threat can be parlayed into other advantages for the offense, as the defense has to respect the long ball. Manziel has thrown 3 (not 2) in 7 quarters this year. It would be crazy to not include them in the overall assessment of his performance. (I have to point out that electrifying wins are nice, too.) He's complete 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 This isn't an overreaction IMO: I see why Josh deserved a chance to start today, I get it. But it's obvious this whole team plays down when he's under center. The team plays a lot different when Manziel is in there. Correct your mistake and put Manziel in. I got there a little later than you. To start the 2nd half's 2nd Series, I would have made the change. Just to see if JM could provide a sorely needed spark. Maybe McCown is going to make us eat our words.... Nah... just a snack... The real beauty of it is that McCown played well enough so that there is no way you can make the switch now, but the Browns lost anyway. Meanwhile, the guy you spent a first round pick on watches and will watch again next week. That's the risk. If McCown uses this to springboard to a good season, everything is great. If not, everybody can kind of scratch their heads at draft time next year and wonder what to do. Outcomes are not that binary... plenty of room in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial... Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something. I would have started Manziel today, not because I think he's the savior just want to move on sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Actually, that's mostly what I'm saying. Manziel is an intriguing talent with serious flaws. Troy Aikman had 9 TDs and 18 INTs his rookie season, but he gained the experience that made him successful later under more favorable circumstances. I think Manziel has shown just enough (he didn't look too bad in the preseason, either), to let him run with it for a few games. Pettine probably doesn't think he has that luxury, but I don't think 7-9 with McCown will help his job security much either. Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 If we're gonna lose anyway, at least make it exciting to watch. Manziel would do that. Keep playing McCown, and I predict a lot of empty seats. ^+1 He's completed 54% of his passes and fumbled 4 times in 7 quarters And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters. Yeah, I get that. I'm just noting that that is by no means the whole story. The fumbles are a problem. The completion percentage is low (though the fetal-position offensive play calling with the lead in the Titans game didn't do anything to help it). I'm just pointing out that homeruns and walk-off homeruns are generally viewed as important and positive things. It's actually not that controversial... Guess what. When (not if) Pettine goes to Manziel, there will probably be more of each. Take your lumps now and find out what you have. Or, ride the 36 year old journeyman to...... something. correction- ride Josh to nothing. Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel He missed more throws than he made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Troy Aikman was the prototypical NFL QB Manziel is a short guy, with an ok arm and no real pocket presence. Say what you want about Mccown, he stood in the pocket, made the throw and took the hit like an NFL QB. None of the "tuck and runs" Vick, RG III, Kaepenick, etc have proved that style is sustainable. Vick had flashes of greatness but his arm and speed were much better than Manziel I'm sorry I must have missed the first game on the season freaking moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 ^+1 And McClown has completed 56% of his passes, and fumbled twice in 5 quarters. correction- ride Josh to nothing. He missed more throws than he made. Johnny Manziel has stunk as an NFL QB to this point. We can rationalize his poor play and say, "don't look at 2014" or "the first game is on the offensive line" but the truth is he has not been good. Maybe he turns it around and becomes Doug Flutie, I don't know. Today's loss was a team effort and every facet needs to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 I'm sorry I must have missed the first game on the season freaking moron I guess if I understood your point it may be easier to respond. Against the Jets week one Manziel fumbled four times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 quarterback isn't the worst problem at this point. To date, we have the WORST rush defense in the league. Until that's top10, nothing else matters. If they do like the Jets and draft nothing but DL in the first for the next 3 years, I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 27, 2015 Report Share Posted September 27, 2015 Basically, you think they never should have drafted Manziel. If he plays like a rookie it proves your point. If he plays well, it also proves your point, because he didn't do it as a 6'3" 220 lb, prototypical NFL QB, and whatever he did is not sound or sustainable, pretty much by definition. The negatives are negative, and the positives are kind of negative, too. I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I'm going to have to rewind through this game during the course of the week, however im beginning to have questions about how we utilize our personnel on defense. I.e the philosophy Pettine and co. Subscribe to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him. There's not a GM in the league who would trade their proven starter for a relative unknown? Surely you jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I think Manziel was a stretch at 22. Don't really care how he does it if he's successful. If he goes on to have a hall of fame career I'll put some bbq sauce on the crow I'm eating. I've watched him play in 7 NFL games and based on that sample I don't think he plays like a NFL starter. Now I'm not the only one. I'd wager there isn't a GM in the league with the exception of Jacksonville that would trade their starter for him. 6 different teams decided they could do better than McCown- it's going to be 7 before long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 There's not a GM in the league that would trade their starter for McCown either. So why not play the guy you drafted the first round and see what he can develop into? Surely you don't think McCown is gonna take us anywhere? Meanwhile Manziel is sitting on the sidelines with everyone wondering what he can do, while a 36 year old "never was", who will probably be out of the NFL next year, is starting for our team ............................yea! That makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I must have watched a different game. McCown under threw, threw behind, missed open receivers so many times. He sucked, imho. Agree 100%. Secondly our defense should give their game checks to charity. I've heard of guys taking off a play. Our entire unit takes off whole games. I can only remember one pressure on Carr all day. He was basically playing back yard catch with Cooper. It's time to put Pettiness ass on the hot seat too, I've been a supporter but I am seeing a team that not prepared. That's on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgojackets Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Well let's make sure we hire a first time coach and gm while we're at it. Groundhog day over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 6 different teams decided they could do better than McCown- it's going to be 7 before long. We knew this going in, just don't think Johnny Football is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 We knew this going in, just don't think Johnny Football is the answer What we do know is that McCown isn't the answer. We need to get Johnny on the field for an extended look. We also need to get Austin Davis up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 We knew this going in, (edit: McCown stinks) just don't think Johnny Football is the answer The question would then be: Why did we do it? A perfect fit to get us the #1 overall pick in the 2016 draft? OK, I'm being a tad harsh on Josh- and it's just one game but objectively- he was as inaccurate as the bad Hoyer today. Came on in the second half when the Raiders softened up their coverage. Helped Gary Barnidge have a career day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowe Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 How sad is it that I called the game sealing int when that drive started? Why are we fans forced to expect the worst? Why??? I'm sick of fucking losing. Being in cincinnati and knowing all my bengal fans coworkers know that I'm a browns fan.. it seriously sucks. Everybody is a bengals fan right now. But when they lose they tuck their fucking tails and don't come out. No jerseys on Monday after a Sunday loss but when they are undefeated and just beat the ravens.. this shit has been insufferable. Will somebody please make a fucking play for this team? My thick skin with the Browns can take only so much of this bullshit. There.. I feel better now. Go browns. "I'll see ya sunday" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 Soooo....did anyone else see Hartline on D last drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 How sad is it that I called the game sealing int when that drive started? Why are we fans forced to expect the worst? Why??? I'm sick of fucking losing. Being in cincinnati and knowing all my bengal fans coworkers know that I'm a browns fan.. it seriously sucks. Everybody is a bengals fan right now. But when they lose they tuck their fucking tails and don't come out. No jerseys on Monday after a Sunday loss but when they are undefeated and just beat the ravens.. this shit has been insufferable. Will somebody please make a fucking play for this team? My thick skin with the Browns can take only so much of this bullshit. There.. I feel better now. Go browns. "I'll see ya sunday" Wait until the Bungles have their Dec/Jan meltdown, it's still early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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