laurinaitis coming in

[BigBrownsFan]

Dude, you only poke in here to fook with da ich or bash a Buckeye and pimp a Nittany Lion. BTW, I do like Derrick Williams.

Not true, but, whatever. Anyhow, I liked Derrick Williams, but he had horrible 40 times at the combine. They said he was sick with the flu, but, I don't know that to be a fact or fiction. That said, Derrick could have done so much better had we not had Antony Morelli at QB. Derrick finally got back to the things he could do well last year and succeeded. Just as important, the kid is an amazing character of a person - a leader, a teacher and someone who is willing to learn. I know a lot of people will say big whoop, this is the NFL - but, at least u will not have to worry about him getting into a bunch of BS like some of the clowns in the league do.

 

That said, I wouldnt go with him until Round 3. I think he can do better than Stallworth, but if and only if he were there in the third.

[Greythan]

Rich,

 

Your logic is that we shouldn't draft defense because we don't have an offense?

 

Your inference is that we have a defense? Unreal.

 

Being a contrarian because you somehow think it makes you "special" is one thing. Not understanding that this team has glaring needs on the defense is another.

[Sez.EJ]

It just kills my how everyone gets so off track on these threads.. I could give a flying crap about what school he's from.. I am only interested in where he stands with the Browns and will he be a good player for us if we draft him and speculating on what spot we might try to get him.. Focus guys focus..

[Riffer X]

It just kills my how everyone gets so off track on these threads.. I could give a flying crap about what school he's from.. I am only interested in where he stands with the Browns and will he be a good player for us if we draft him and speculating on what spot we might try to get him.. Focus guys focus..

 

Threads go where they may, that's the nature of the board.

 

Why do you always seem to be lecturing people anyway?

[Oldcrow1945]

That said, I wouldnt go with him until Round 3. I think he can do better than Stallworth

 

 

That's a bold statement.....lol.....I think we could grab a kid in the 4th or 6th and he'd be better than this stiff. He's been a bust from day 1 in the NFL.

 

This was Phil's worst signing during his time here.

It was the New England influence once again. He went to the Pats and looked decent...So he must be ok. Nope. He still sucks. Deion Branch was awful after leaving. David Givens signs a huge contract with the Titans and about halfway through the year (After doing nothing...0 TD's) he blows his knee up.

I'm waiting for Cassel to be a big bust as well.

[ballpeen]

There is thinking laruinatis may fall to the top of the 2nd round and we are scoping him out for a possible selection there.

[DTBH]

Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....

 

Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.

 

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

The combine is so overrated. It gives you an idea about someones physical attributes but doesn't tell the story about the person. Doesn't tell you what kinda heart he is going to play with when he goes to the pros or if he is just trying hard at the combine so he can get a better payday.

 

I'm 100% with you there. The combine is good for interviews to help judge character and to get true heights and weights. You get some agility numbers and strength numbers but you see what kind of football player he is on film.

 

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....

 

Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.

 

LOL.................................please, people knew Johnson could run. His 40 time didn't do crap for his draft status. Game film where they can see his vision, ability to make people miss, the heart he plays with and his love of the game. There are all kind of guys that can run a 4.3 working at wal-marts.

 

Laurenitis's 40 is average to good for a ILB. Notoriously slow conference is BS, you sound like Mark May. the man can flat out play and loves the game. He'll be a 1st round pick and someone will end up with a hell of a football player. Scouts are better educated in evaluating players to let a combine 40 that isn't bad influence anything.

 

So, using your criteria Maualuga must be going to fall to a 3rd round pick after his combine. And, Freeman must be jumping into the middle of the first round.

[Oldcrow1945]

. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.

 

This is one of the biggest myths going in college football today. It's for people that want to take ESPN at their word.

 

A few months ago I decided to break this down. I took the first four rounds of last five drafts and took a look at how many players were coming into the NFL via various conferences. I decided on the last five drafts so there wouldn't have been a case where a conference was just strong one year while another was weak. I used the first four rounds because that would be wide ranging while just keeping to those that are generally going to be considered future starters in the NFL.

 

The interior linemen on defense was really surprising.

 

D-Linemaen

 

ACC.........23 drafted in the first four rounds over the last five years

BIG 10.....21

SEC.........21

Big 12......12

PAC 10....10

Big East....3

 

 

O-Linemen

 

Big 12.....15 Drafted in the first four rounds over the last five years

SEC........14

ACC........13

Big East...12

Big Ten....11

Pac 10.....11

 

I have the numbers for LB's, Corners and WR's as well. I have to find them. The Big Ten had great numbers in these three positions! Linebackers especially.

 

The one thing it showed was that the SEC was not producing many more highly talented football players than The Big Ten or ACC especially. The numbers were very close.

What shocked me was the PAC 10. The numbers were generally lower. Take USC out of that picture and the numbers were shockingly low. Yet, it's the Big Ten that ESPN and these other media types like to rag on. They don;t have a clue.

[Tobalaz]

If little Animal falls to us in the 2nd we'd be crazy NOT to take him.

I don't think he's worth the #5 overall, but he's like C3, a smart kid that works hard and has a lot of heart. Another one of those "put him out there and not have to worry about him blowing his assignment" types.

 

[DTBH]

LOL.................................please, people knew Johnson could run. His 40 time didn't do crap for his draft status.

 

No they didn't, at least not to the level of him being drafted as high as he was.

 

Game film where they can see his vision, ability to make people miss, the heart he plays with and his love of the game. There are all kind of guys that can run a 4.3 working at wal-marts.

 

No they don't.

 

Notoriously slow conference is BS, you sound like Mark May.

 

And everyone else in the world who isn't blind for the Big 10 and in "Ohio State is slow" denial.

 

So, using your criteria Maualuga must be going to fall to a 3rd round pick after his combine. And, Freeman must be jumping into the middle of the first round.

 

Judging by game film, Maualuga goes solidly ahead of Laurenitis. Rey mid first, James late first. I've thought Laurenitis was late to the pile consistently way before he ever ran at the combine or pro-day, and I never thought that about Rey Rey.

 

I don't hate Laurenitis. If we could get him in the second I'd take him in a heart beat. I just see his flaws. He's not the best linebacker in the draft for a reason. Sort of like Beanie Wells isn't projected first overall, and Jim Tressell isn't Jesus Christ. I know anything other wise is demonic with the OSU homerism that goes on, and I find it disgusting being a Buckeye fan myself.

 

And people tend to get a little crazy with the "game speed is different" than "track" speed. You put the 3 cone, shuttle, 40, high jump, etc. together, you're going to a pretty damn close estimate of what a player can do.

 

Vision is one thing that can't be measured at the combine, but even something like "ability to make people miss" has it's own distinct drill where they expose a running back for shiftiness and lack thereof. Mike Mayock said after he saw Steve Slaton run that particular drill that he knew he would end up being one of the top backs in the draft.

 

Obviously heart, desire, drive, etc. can't be measured either. That's why I said it all gets put together for an aggregate evaluation of a player.

 

I guess all the scouts and coaches must have just missed the memo that the combine doesn't matter, though. Guys drop or climb in the draft after the combine for a reason, because scouts and coaches know that these measurables matter enough not to ignore.

[Oldcrow1945]

And everyone else in the world who isn't blind for the Big 10 and in "Ohio State is slow" denial.

 

It simply isn't true. You are being influenced by mostly ESPN as they are the the ones that like to talk about this the most.

It can easily be proven incorrect.

 

I can go to Scout.inc and go through the recruits and their 40 times for the past few years. OSU recruits are every bit as fast as USC's, or LSU's or Alabama's.

 

This "Slow" stuff is for the media and for those who want to believe every word that comes out of their mouth without looking at the facts. And the fact is this; There is very little difference in talent or speed.

 

You can stick to this "Slow" theory but you are only fooling yourself. I pointed out in a previous past that it's evident by the numbers going into the NFL as well. The Big ten has produced nearly as many high draft picks as The SEC and more than the PAC 10.

 

One of the reasons I did this research was someone was telling me the SEC was producing so many more defensive lineman than anyone else and that the Big Tens's linemen were especially slow. Yet just look at the numbers. In the last 5 years The SEC and Big Ten have each had 21 D-Linemen drafted in the first four rounds.

[DTBH]

In the last 5 years The SEC and Big Ten have each had 21 D-Linemen drafted in the first four rounds.

 

This isn't necessarily because Big Ten players are just as fast, but they've got other qualities that make them good. That argument is completely shallow and wrong.

 

A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.

 

Do you remember how Derrick Harvey made our offensive linemen look? Or are you like all other OSU fans and just block out that game? I'm not being influenced by ESPN, I'm being influenced by watching college football. You are being influenced, once again, by your scarlett and grey glasses.

 

Just another bitter, blindly loyal OSU fan.

[Oldcrow1945]

Just another bitter, blindly loyal OSU fan.

 

If you believe this then you haven't taken notice of my other post. I never defend OSU because I'm a fan. I'm on record concerning this year's draft and Donald Washington, Alex Boone and Chris Wells.

 

[Oldcrow1945]

A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.

 

Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4

 

Wide receivers taken

 

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

 

 

Corners taken

 

SEC 17

Big Ten 15

 

Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?

 

As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.

They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.

It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.

[Guest Aloysius]

Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4

 

Wide receivers taken

 

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

 

 

Corners taken

 

SEC 17

Big Ten 15

 

Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?

This debate seems to be going in circles, so let me interject with a suggestion: if you list the 20 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys, I'll look up their Combine times and give you a mean time for each. That'll give us a better idea about any potential difference in speed.

 

Better yet: have mercy on me and limit it to the last four drafts

[DTBH]

Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4

 

Wide receivers taken

 

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

 

 

Corners taken

 

SEC 17

Big Ten 15

 

Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.

 

The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.

 

Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.

 

As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.

[Oldcrow1945]

Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.

 

The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.

 

Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.

 

As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.

 

I love it....you spelled 'genius' incorrectly.

 

I'm just responding to your point. You said the SEC is known for speed and the Big Ten is known for size and strength. Yet now you say Speed isn't everything.

 

[Oldcrow1945]

Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....

 

Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.

 

Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?

You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?

 

Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?

[Guest Aloysius]

Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4

 

Wide receivers taken

 

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:

• Average time:
  • SEC: 4.425
  • Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

[DTBH]

Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?

 

I did not mean the conference was inferior. I simply meant the conference was not as fast overall as, say, the SEC. That doesn't mean they're inferior.

 

When I said subpar competition, I meant games against YSU, Akron, and such.

 

You still don't get it. I'm not saying speed is everything, and I'm not saying the Big Ten is weak. I'm saying the Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences. That's it. Take it for what it is.

[NewEraDawg]

I would rather have big , moderately fast players than smaller speedster types that cant do all jobs expected .

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:

• Average time:
  • SEC: 4.425
  • Big Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

 

But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.

 

Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

[Guest Aloysius]

Corners taken

 

SEC 17

Big Ten 15

I counted 18 apiece, with 14 SEC guys and 12 Big Ten guys running at the Combine.

• Average times:
  • SEC: 4.4078
  • Ten: 4.4442

 

[DTBH]

Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

 

Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.

 

But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.

 

OSU fag.

[Oldcrow1945]

OSU fag.

 

This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.

 

[Oldcrow1945]

I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:

• Average time:
  • SEC: 4.425
  • Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

 

That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.

I'm ROTFL here!

[YtownBrownsBacker]

This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.

 

Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.

[Oldcrow1945]

Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

 

Now he says he meant that only the non conference games were inferior. Not the games in the Big Ten.

Even though he said JL played "a lot games against inferior competition" and "In a notoriously slow conference"

I guess "A lot" means 3 of their 12 games. And five one hundreds of a second is "notoriously slow"