Oldcrow1945 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I disagree with Grossi on the Edwards trade to N.Y. I have always thought big playmaking WR's are overrrated when it comes to winning Championships. I think Bill Belichick proved that with his Patriot teams. Give me a great defense and a solid running game with a QB that completes 60% of his passes and doesn't make too many mistakes and I'll win a bunch of games. Move Cribbs to safety, Give me Kiwanuka, a FA Signing and two more defenders in the first 37 picks and I've upgraded my defense by leaps and bounds. After the 2010 draft and one or two more FA signings (Will Smith) in 2010 and this defense could be scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I disagree with Grossi on the Edwards trade to N.Y. I have always thought big playmaking WR's are overrrated when it comes to winning Championships. I think Bill Belichick proved that with his Patriot teams. Give me a great defense and a solid running game with a QB that completes 60% of his passes and doesn't make too many mistakes and I'll win a bunch of games. Move Cribbs to safety, Give me Kiwanuka, a FA Signing and two more defenders in the first 37 picks and I've upgraded my defense by leaps and bounds. After the 2010 draft and one or two more FA signings (Will Smith) in 2010 and this defense could be scary. I agree on the big playmaking WRs being overrated give me an accurate full field scanning qb and 3 guys with fair speed,decent routes and great hands 2 TEs that can block and catch and 2 Rbs that can run,block and catch over a snazzy self serving big play WR that drops half of what comes at him..anyday. And cribbs would be a knockout safety in no time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 1- Cutler is a great QB. he's not a whinner or any of that. 2- i don't think he's going anywhere. this got all out of proportion, and now other teams are trying to capitalize on it and the rumor mill is in full force. cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I disagree with Grossi on the Edwards trade to N.Y. I have always thought big playmaking WR's are overrrated when it comes to winning Championships. I think Bill Belichick proved that with his Patriot teams. Give me a great defense and a solid running game with a QB that completes 60% of his passes and doesn't make too many mistakes and I'll win a bunch of games. Move Cribbs to safety, Give me Kiwanuka, a FA Signing and two more defenders in the first 37 picks and I've upgraded my defense by leaps and bounds. After the 2010 draft and one or two more FA signings (Will Smith) in 2010 and this defense could be scary. I agree with upgrading the defense and having a strong running game. Coaches used to say to have a great defense you had to be strong up the middle. DT, ILB and have a great SS. We have Rogers and we need a strong run support SILB and a kick ass SS. Maybe why Jones was sent looking. There are 2nd round picks like Chung and Moore and Nic Harris that could fill the bill at SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I agree with upgrading the defense and having a strong running game. Coaches used to say to have a great defense you had to be strong up the middle. DT, ILB and have a great SS. We have Rogers and we need a strong run support SILB and a kick ass SS. Maybe why Jones was sent looking. There are 2nd round picks like Chung and Moore and Nic Harris that could fill the bill at SS. I love Chung. Almost a corner/safety hybrid that likes to hit. If the Browns got this guy in the 2nd round I'd be very excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why cant we win Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 or we could put cribbs at ss maybe he could form into that crazy haired guy from pittspuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Seems Grossi agrees with me: Just not likely. Hardly going out on a limb. I think it was been in the unlikely category since it was first floated. I do disagree on the trade....I think it would be wonderful. As Shep said....Quinn could easily be better than Cutler....he can also flop like a fish out of water.....so as the saying goes...a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush. Give me the proven any day of the week.....also seeing I don't think Quinn could end up much better. Rogers would be a problem.....but one I feel could be adequately addressed in the draft.....Raji with our 1st pick would be a good start....who else are we going to take there?? But....the odds of this happening are about 2%, so i have wasted enough of my time considering the ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Play the year with Quinn. If he sucks, we suck. Spend the #1 pick next year on a QB and move on. This is not the year to get rid of an unknown Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 for some reason, so i realize that you guys really do love/trust in Quinn.. i almost get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why cant we win Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 for some reason, so i realize that you guys really do love/trust in Quinn.. i almost get it. any more if your a browns fan u love/trust who ever is behing the center throwing the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_illness Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 which is debatable......but sure, i almost get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I love the idea of a first round draft pick being named the starter, going through spring and preseason as the starter, and giving him at least half of the season to see what he can do. I like Quinn because he's already a Brown, wants to be a Brown, and has a strong enough history as a successful QB to be given his shot. I also love the idea of the Browns doing everything they can to give every first round draft pick, forever more, a chance early and often (especially if the guy in front of him is ranked last in the league). I also love the fact that Quinn (and DA for that matter) has never whined publicly like Winslow and Cutler. It's a sad day when Carmelo acts more mature than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky20 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Besides...he already has a 'young' Favre on the roster in DA. WP - are you f.ucking serious??????!!!!!!!! You are gone dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 WP - are you f.ucking serious??????!!!!!!!! You are gone dude. read closer....STYLE of play...NOT talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I love the idea of a first round draft pick being named the starter, going through spring and preseason as the starter, and giving him at least half of the season to see what he can do. I like Quinn because he's already a Brown, wants to be a Brown, and has a strong enough history as a successful QB to be given his shot. I also love the idea of the Browns doing everything they can to give every first round draft pick, forever more, a chance early and often (especially if the guy in front of him is ranked last in the league). I also love the fact that Quinn (and DA for that matter) has never whined publicly like Winslow and Cutler. It's a sad day when Carmelo acts more mature than you do. All well written and right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 read closer....STYLE of play...NOT talent I understood what you meant. A big armed gunslinger who will try and force the ball in anywhere. As was evident in the year he threw 29 TD's as well as 19 INT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why cant we win Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 was watching mike and mike in the morning play again and espn 2 and john clayton was talking about jay cutler being traded but he didnt mention anything about cleveland being in the mix he said that denver is unlikey to trade him for picks becuasue they wouldnt have a qb in return so this means that the news of bq ans shaun rodgers aint getting around the league or john clayton just dont know about this rumor of us being in the mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 If we trade Rogers to Denver, it better be for Champ-effing-Bailey, because he's the only corner that can cover for 10+ seconds a play that comes with zero pass rush. Corner not being an area I feel needs immediate concern this season. I like Bmac as an all-around corner better than Wright as a pure shutdown guy. Lets give these guys at least 1 season with a pass rush before we start axing two solid tacklers and above average cover guys. B-mac made some pretty obscene-highlight reel picks last season. Both guys have speed, both are quick & explosive to the ball. But that should be our only interest in Denver. p.s. Could the poster (from page 1, too lazy to look, too pissed to care) kindly go play in traffic? How can you claim to be a Brownie and have anything nice to say about John Elway? I happen to like him as the car-salesman better. The more alleged Denver fans he can put behind the wheel of a car, the better chance they have in getting in car wrecks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 The lazy-eyed hobbit is 17-20 with 87 rating. I think we can manage that out of Quinn AND keep the ALL-PRO defensive tackle. The off-season is so GAY. It's like a freaking soap opera out there. Zombo LOL! I hear ya Zombo! The only 2 guys in this free agent market that excite me are Ward and Houshmasabee. All these other sweats have seedy/greedy agents connected at the hip whoring after signing bonuses and salaries their clients just aren't worth. I once pledged a fraternity and this miserable big basterd had a name tag on that read: FAAAAH-Q. Not the kind of guy you want around on RUSH night when you're trying to recruit new pledges. Anyway, your knuckleheaded buddy Flugel was the dumb one that asked what's your name say? I got a classic one liner in return: "Sound it out asshole!" When Greer showed up wanting the absurd amt of cake he's asking for - wouldn't you just love to hold up what was written on that name tag I spoke of? - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELandMILIDH Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 BRONCOS SAY THEY WON’T TRADE CUTLER Posted by Mike Florio on March 3, 2009, 6:22 p.m. The Broncos “absolutely” won’t be trading quarterback Jay Cutler. That’s the word from CBS4 in Denver, from Gary Miller. Adam Schefter of NFL Network got something even more clear. “Let me be as clear as I can about this,” McDaniels told Schefter. “We are not trading Jay Cutler — period.” That said, we’re still not sure we believe the team. Our guess is that the Broncos are trying, on a last-ditch basis, to rebuild the relationship with Cutler by making it clear to him that he won’t be able to talk his way out of town. (There’s also a chance that the Broncos are trying to restore the market for Cutler, by persuading other teams that they plan to keep him.) The next step comes next week, when Cutler will return to Colorado for a sit-down with coach Josh McDaniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 This thing is now even all over WKNR.....Sheez. It now has a life of it's own and the thought of it is ridiculous. Give up our best D-lineman and Quinn for Cutler and a 3rd? I hope someone puts it to bed quickly. The only way I'd even think about this deal is if it was Cutler and the Bronco's first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greythan Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yeah everything we hear is just smoke screen... It's like the report that Mangini doesn't like what he sees in Quinn. That was a total smokescreen too right? Could be Lum. Point is you can't believe anything you hear about either QB in this situation. Its in Cleveland's best interest to have teams believe we think DA is a God. But considering you'd have to think about it through the "Cleveland's best interest" lens, I can see how you missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Could be Lum. Point is you can't believe anything you hear about either QB in this situation. Its in Cleveland's best interest to have teams believe we think DA is a God. But considering you'd have to think about it through the "Cleveland's best interest" lens, I can see how you missed that. Only someone as screwed up as Lum would ever believe any of that crap. Can't believe the kind of shit that people here actually think has merit and then they run with it. WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 This rumor was actually started by Mike Florio of PFT. Cutler Could Intrigue Cleveland Tuesday, March 03, 2009 Posted By Mike Florio 1:01 AM Earlier on Monday, a league source advised us that the new regime in Cleveland - known lovingly in league circles as "ManKok" - would likely be interested in Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler as an alternative to Derek Anderson and/or Brady Quinn. And there are indeed as of this posting an old-fashioned, unsubstantiated, poo-on-the-wall "Internet rumor" regarding a deal that would send Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers to the Broncos for Cutler and a third-round pick. To be crystal clear, we are not reporting that a trade is or could be happening. In fact, given the top-secret manner in which the Browns handled the Kellen Winslow trade, we're confident that word of such a transaction would not leak. Our contribution to this one is only that it's believed that coach Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis would be interested in Cutler. (That said, you can bet that there will be plenty of people who come away from this one thinking that we're reporting that the deal is already done.) Much more would have to be determined, such as whether the Broncos would be interested in Quinn, who played college football at Notre Dame for Charlie Weis, who proceeded Denver coach Josh McDaniels as New England offensive coordinator and likely mentored him. Still, we're willing to put this one in the "possibility" category. http://broncosfreaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21418 I pmed this to Kosar earlier because I couldn't post for some reason. Thought he would post the link. Check it out and it will show you how stupid and gullible the media is. Within hours this story was everywhere and it all started as a joke on a broncos board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 http://broncosfreaks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21418 I pmed this to Kosar earlier because I couldn't post for some reason. Thought he would post the link. Check it out and it will show you how stupid and gullible the media is. Within hours this story was everywhere and it all started as a joke on a broncos board. "Stupid" is the key word there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 If we trade Rogers to Denver, it better be for Champ-effing-Bailey, because he's the only corner that can cover for 10+ seconds a play that comes with zero pass rush. Corner not being an area I feel needs immediate concern this season. I like Bmac as an all-around corner better than Wright as a pure shutdown guy. Lets give these guys at least 1 season with a pass rush before we start axing two solid tacklers and above average cover guys. B-mac made some pretty obscene-highlight reel picks last season. Both guys have speed, both are quick & explosive to the ball. But that should be our only interest in Denver. p.s. Could the poster (from page 1, too lazy to look, too pissed to care) kindly go play in traffic? How can you claim to be a Brownie and have anything nice to say about John Elway? I happen to like him as the car-salesman better. The more alleged Denver fans he can put behind the wheel of a car, the better chance they have in getting in car wrecks. Think thats me you are refering to I never claimed to be a Brownie, although my fiancee does. Sorry the drive still stings so much for you, hopefully the Browns will get to the bowl and you will get past it. With the way McDaniels is screwing the pooch here with my Broncos I doubt you will have to get past us in the playoffs. Anyway, I will take your post in the spirit it is intended and go play in traffic now, good luck to you and the Browns organization, hope your front office changes go better than I think ours will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Think thats me you are refering to I never claimed to be a Brownie, although my fiancee does. Sorry the drive still stings so much for you, hopefully the Browns will get to the bowl and you will get past it. With the way McDaniels is screwing the pooch here with my Broncos I doubt you will have to get past us in the playoffs. Anyway, I will take your post in the spirit it is intended and go play in traffic now, good luck to you and the Browns organization, hope your front office changes go better than I think ours will. It could be, I don't know. Glad you took it as a joke (its intent). Thanks for the well wishes, but I can't return the gesture. May Ed "Big Guns" Hochuli cost your team 2 games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Think thats me you are refering to I never claimed to be a Brownie, although my fiancee does. Sorry the drive still stings so much for you, hopefully the Browns will get to the bowl and you will get past it. With the way McDaniels is screwing the pooch here with my Broncos I doubt you will have to get past us in the playoffs. Anyway, I will take your post in the spirit it is intended and go play in traffic now, good luck to you and the Browns organization, hope your front office changes go better than I think ours will. I feel for your donkeys man we here on this board know all to well about newbie coaches and flamboyant newbie GMs that seem to think they can buy/build a consistant winner from FA your owner screwed up getting rid of shanahan you guys got andra davis from us and most of us would tell you he is mediocre at best and has downright blind vision as its not uncommon for him to not see a RB blazing right past him yet he somehow still grabs the guy and gets dragged 5 yards before bringing him down..maybe he will play better with coaching and better front 7 support then he had here.. For the most part im anticipating a welcome change in brownstown our new regime seems to be doing what it must do to secure the longterm success of the cleveland browns..we havent seen this kind of discipline around here in many years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefellswoop7 Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Can we lock this lame and over-the-top thread? I'm sure we've got other things to actually talk about... Screw you Phil for conditioning us to think FA is meant to sign all the top tier players and by not making a giant splash on day one we're doing it wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ die, thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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