Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 So you believe a team lead by Mariota would beat those three? I think we need to find a gooddamn quarterback. I think it is objective number one. I have no idea if Mariotta is going to be the guy, but I want the Browns to go after whoever they think is the best guy out there draft/trade/fa. Finding a franchise QB is job #1. Keep taking shots at it. We have two SEC midgets, neither of whom are pocket passers, on our roster. One is raw and undrafted, the other is raw and overdrafted ... and in rehab. The fucking position needs to be addressed. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Z, as others have said Mariota got exposed by Ohio State. I certainly didn't like what I saw either. MHO- is he's JFF II- without the outside baggage. Certainly not worth risking the three years of hell if he busts- It's going to take the Browns an RG III type deal to move up high enough to draft him. He is NOT a surefire, can't miss prospect- you can look up the scouting reports if you don't believe me. Neither is Winston for that matter- but if I had to roll the dice selling the ranch to move up- I'll put my money on Famous Jameis instead. He at least ran a pro style offense. PS- and I'd take Cardale Jones over either of them. 12 Guage continues on his current pace- he's going to be the 2016 #1 overall- and no one will trade out of it either. Yes indeed we're in quarterback hell once again. But barring a JFF miracle, I don't see any viable way out this year. Cardale Jones is not in this draft. Who knows where he will be rated next year and where we will be drafting. I couldnt give two shits about him right now, we need to pick the right guy for 2015 ... unless you think he is on the roster. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think we need to find a gooddamn quarterback. I think it is objective number one. I have no idea if Mariotta is going to be the guy, but I want the Browns to go after whoever they think is the best guy out there draft/trade/fa. Finding a franchise QB is job #1. Keep taking shots at it. We have two SEC midgets, neither of whom are pocket passers, on our roster. One is raw and undrafted, the other is raw and overdrafted ... and in rehab. The fucking position needs to be addressed. Z You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 1) Mariota is not a savior of anything. He's not even the day1 starter. He IS NOT ACCURATE under pressure in college .. what magical unicorn thinking allows anyone reading this thread to convince themselves that he'll be Tarkenton just because he's now getting paid? He still sucks. 2) The 2014 Browns defense was not magnificent.. and the 2015 version will be missing both Skrine and Sheard at minimum. We cannot afford to throw away bucketloads of picks for a guy who is barely a backup. Don't forget: We'd be also giving up the opportunity to get Shelton at NT to replace the flaps of skin labeled Rubin and Taylor, and upgrades at OT/OLB/ILB.. the players we would have taken at those pick positions. News flash: Robinson is not good. Mingo is a substitute, not a 1st round difference-maker. And who do we have at RT? Will a QB depth chart consisting only of Heisman winners give us a free 12 points at the start of the game? No? Then don't waste one moment of anyone's time even contemplating this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I've read everything posted on this and it is a close call. Good arguments on anyway we go. We need a quarterback. That is our most pressing need. We also need to upgrade defense to stop the run. We need a wide receiver. So we have multiple needs. Then you have to prioritize what is the most important? Probably quarterback but is this a good year for that? It doesn't seem to be. For me the safest bet is to resign Hoyer if possible and get the other upgrades. Let Manziel try to beat him out as starter in pre-season. Hoyer is good enough to be a bridge quarterback until the right time comes to try for the franchise quarterback. That is not a great option either after witnessing the collapse of our offense the second half of the season. I have to wonder though how much losing Mack and our run game dropping off after that was the main reason for Hoyer struggling? It seems like any quarterback would struggle without a run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 We gotta get one. Brady Wilson Rodgers Luck Manning Romo Flacco Cam Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year. We have Manziel and Shaw. C'mon man. If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste. Zombo Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 this is my position on the whole deal draft-wise. what are our major holes on defense? a defense that could be top 5 in the league next year if prospects are drafted correctly? 1-2 DL (rubin gone, taylor hurt)? ILB? that's 3 right off the top. so instead of upgrading and cementing the D to be the best in our conference, if not the division, we waste those 3 picks and hope on a wing and a prayer that one of these 2 QBs would pan out and be a starter from day one? GTFO. give me those 3 D picks a WR a backup C and a RT then in between if a guy like hundley or petty or mannion present themselves by all means throw in the card. but to think the browns are only a QB away from being true contenders is ridiculous at this point. everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You said a lot, yet still didn't answer my question. Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him. I'm not a scout. I'm a fan. I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything. If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything. If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that. Zombo way to serve up that softball.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him. I'm not a scout. I'm a fan. I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything. If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that. Zombo What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)... Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?...... Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so..... So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)... Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?...... Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so..... So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?...... If they don't see anyone that they think can be "the man" I'd re-sign Hoyer or a similar vet, and I'd probably still throw a draft pick at a QB in the mid-rounds to come in and challenge for the backup role. I don't think much of Shaw as an NFL prospect, and I think Manziel has to be challenged every step of the way, and if he slips again, we should have an answer in place. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 way to serve up that softball.... Yes, I realize I am sounding like this: http://youtu.be/QxaQ9cKYQXo?list=PL2142E1B1F2086BF6 But the folks that don't seem to see QB as a major need are stunning me, I am trying to make it as basic as I can so I can understand whether they just don't like Marriota in particular, or if they just think we shouldn't spend resources on QB in general. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Love these grasping at straws futility posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 i think most realize that QB IS the most important move to be made in the offseason. where the opinions differ is by which means the browns obtain theirs. resign hoyer, sign a vet, trade for a starter, move up in the draft (costing us precious draft picks) and pick another rookie etc. etc. no one on the roster now could lead this team on a 16 game campaign in a competent manner IMO. foles would be great if we didn't have to give up much to get him. i really think they'll try and resign hoyer and if that doesn't work go after some other perennial backup/journeyman type guy to get us through another season. it really depends on what the FO/coaching staff's plans are on how to continue to build what they started last year and either resign a bunch of guys or let them go and draft their replacements. the browns were very competitive with the team they fielded before the injury to mack, even though other teams just ran the ball down our throats. that's why most fans feel the need to draft DL and ILB as well as backup C and OL as priorities. but who knows what farmer has up his sleeves. for all i know they move up to take white and draft hundley in the 2nd. we all know that haslam says they won't make huge deals in FA and want to build through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 My opinion is that we live in a hero worship culture. If a team is very good in other aspects they will compete. Then add an above average quarterback and they will flourish. We take our eye off the ball when we assume that one guy is going to turn the world around. We saw that last season. The team was good enough to compete with a guy like BH at the helm. But then one chink in the armor and it all falls apart. If we don't have a plan B, no running game and we don't have a run defense it will make any third or fourth or even first round quarterback look like crap. A great quarterback can make a good team great but he can't make a bad team good. Trading 2 first round picks for Marcus Mariota, that nobody in the world seems to think is the next Joe Montana, means not taking two position players who, according to the Gippers list, who have a good shot at being outstanding players. That hurt the team now and in the future and jeopardizes Maiotas chances for success. And greatly increases the odds of another major house cleaning. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 But the folks that don't seem to see QB as a major need are stunning me, I am trying to make it as basic as I can so I can understand whether they just don't like Marriota in particular, or if they just think we shouldn't spend resources on QB in general. I think we ALL see QB as a major need and agree we should keep looking and trying them till one sticks...... The real variance is how much we think the Browns should give up to try one...... And, this year, I dont see one that is worth so much we should forgo our other needs to get him. Why stop the development of a good team just to fill one position(albiet it an important one), when the candidates dont look very good..... So, my view is that a lot of us want to pick a QB, or sign a QB, but we sure as hell dont want to spent 2 first rounders(or, god forbid more) for one that has all kinds of questions.....thats all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 In terms of the QB situation I suspect that will be answered well before the draft through FA. To jump and sell the farm for one of those two is a huge risk. Build that line with depth in front of Hoyer and he will at least get us some winning seasons going. If not him then take a chance on someone else in FA or eat it this year and take the best QB next year. I still have not given up on JM. Remember he also played with Mack on the sideline and got no help from the D that game. He has taken the one step I felt was absolutely crucial to having any chance to be the NFL QB he wants to be. I'd give him a season to prove it is working (not necessarily as starter-just showing he is learning and playing well in clean up time and practice while staying sober) . If not then go for the highest guy next year who would then have a great team built around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 PS we were a backup center, a defensive lineman and maybe a kicker away from being a lot better than we wound up in 2014. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 PS we were a backup center, a defensive lineman and maybe a kicker away from being a lot better than we wound up in 2014. WSS you are correct sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Side question: Mariota is working out with Winston now. Does that mean O'Connell is doing work with WInston as well?Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too.WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Don't get me wrong. I am not saying we head in to the season with just JF and Shaw. All I am saying is it would be foolish to simply kick JF to the curb without one more good look. It makes no sense. Of course. everything Mik just said x100. The two dominant teams in our division built their defensive core first then went out and found a QB. If we fuck about wasting resources on finding a QB we're going to miss this small window where the North teams are restructuring. We need a defense to compete with them. A mean one. We don't have that I don't care if we bring Brady in here he won't get shit done. The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad. Yes, I did. I said i have no idea if Mariotta is the guy. I don't know if we start beating those teams if we draft him. I'm not a scout. I'm a fan. I'm telling you this team needs to do what it can to secure a QB this offseason. You keep bringing this back to Mariotta ... I keep trying to tell you that I don't know who the guy is, but whoever the Browns think they would like to target, whether it is through the draft, trade or free agency, they should go after without hesitation and not stand pat just because they drafted a QB in the first round last year. they can't count on him for anything. If the Browns think Mariotta is a stud, then go for him. If they want Nick Foles and think they can get him in a trade, go for it. If they want to keep Hoyer and may like a QB in the later rounds, then do that ... but just do something because we need a goddamn QB, it's almost embarrassing that fan of the Cleveland Browns doesn't recognize that. Zombo Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Fucking Suckeye Homers, Braindead, I mean "12 Cauge" ain't come to be #1 overall. Noones blowing a 1st rounder on the Suckeye hero except you fanboys who overrate the fuck out of every fucking QB you ever have. I know what I saw- & my qb prognostication is pretty good. Called it on Quinn, Harrington, Weeden, RG III. Hated the Manziel pick. True- I like the Buckeyes- but I'm not married to them. Yeah- Bosa is going to be a first round pick next year too- take it to the bank hatah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Of course. The Redskins sold the ranch on RG II before the team was ready. I'ts turned out horrifically bad. Problem is- there's no viable option to find "The Guy" this year. Foles is the only one I'm interested in- all the other options won't be worth the asking price. I'd rather stick with Hoyer than give up three first round picks to get either Winston or Mariota. Well, if you look at the eight guys I listed, Wilson was a third rounder, Brady a 6th and Romo a udfa ... I didn't say we had to trade up for a first round QB, I said we had to keep looking for one. Just gotta keep trying. If it is re-signing Hoyer and drafting another guy in th emid-rounds, I'm ok with that. Even when you have a franchise QB you keep looking ... Brady was drafted when Bledsoe was considered elite and the Pats have continued to draft the likes of Cassell, Mallet and Garopolo during Brady's prime. Good QBs are coming around alomost every year, but you aren't going to find one if you ain't looking. teams with ten draft picks tons of cap space and three starts on their roster need to be looking. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 My opinion is that we live in a hero worship culture. If a team is very good in other aspects they will compete. Then add an above average quarterback and they will flourish. We take our eye off the ball when we assume that one guy is going to turn the world around. We saw that last season. The team was good enough to compete with a guy like BH at the helm. But then one chink in the armor and it all falls apart. If we don't have a plan B, no running game and we don't have a run defense it will make any third or fourth or even first round quarterback look like crap. A great quarterback can make a good team great but he can't make a bad team good. Trading 2 first round picks for Marcus Mariota, that nobody in the world seems to think is the next Joe Montana, means not taking two position players who, according to the Gippers list, who have a good shot at being outstanding players. That hurt the team now and in the future and jeopardizes Maiotas chances for success. And greatly increases the odds of another major house cleaning. WSS We need a Kevin Bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Fucking Suckeye Homers, Braindead, I mean "12 Cauge" ain't come to be #1 overall. Noones blowing a 1st rounder on the Suckeye hero except you fanboys who overrate the fuck out of every fucking QB you ever have. Why is this dingleberry still clinging on to the ass of the browns board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Nope, it just means Irish people and Polynesians love crab legs too. WSS WINNAH!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 What if they dont see anyone who they think is "the man"......?....let it go for a year?.....just asking because I agree they should take a swing......unfortunately they'll get lambasted for it though.....(not my problem, I get it)(just a point for the bitchers, haters and whiners to think about)... Took a swing at Weeden, Manziel and McCoy(for example).....they probably weren't 100% sold on any of them, but had to at least try, right?...... Of course, now they are dumb asses for doing so..... So......"for the FO haters"(not you Z)......do we pick one we "hope" can make it or do we wait till we are 100% sure about a player and also happen to have the pick to get him(fyi - that might be 30-40 years, so I hope you can wait)......and if we do take a chance, then are we dumb asses who should be fired if it doesn't pan out?...... Was McCoy really a swing? He was the winningest college quarterback and he was taken in the 3rd round. I don't think that was a swing and a miss as much as it was a value pick. Actually, the only "mortgage it all, swing and a miss" quarterback pick I can really recall Cleveland making was Tim Couch. The Browns have take exactly one quarterback with their first pick in the draft in the last 44 years - Tim Couch. Quinn, Weeden, Manziel...value picks. Bad picks? Sure. But value-based nonetheless. The Browns haven't mortgaged their future and moved up to take the top rated QB once in the modern era. For those of you saying we've been burnt before...learn the difference between moving up to #22 to take a questionable pick and moving up to #1 to take the top-ranked guy. I'm not saying this necessarily applies to this situation, but the sheer lack of knowledge by some of these people is frustrating. I'm also not referring to you, Mud...just using this reply as a platform to voice my displeasure over some of these fucking clueless idiots who come out of the woodwork and start blasting Zombo just because they heard Skip Bayless compare Manziel to Mariota or some stupid shit like that. The Browns have tried to shop for value and gotten fucked numerous times. Stop being pussies and trying to backdoor your way into the playoffs. Get a quarterback who can compete. You don't plan for a Wilson or a Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Even IF that strategy is correct - and I don't think it is: Washington is fucked for 5 years because they did exactly what you promote - MARIOTA SUCKS. The unproven assertion within every post on this thread is that Mariota is some kind of Brady, Luck, or Wilson - and frankly he is not. Mariota wouldn't beat Manziel in a battle this offseason. He simply is not accurate. But keep ignoring reality because your agenda is "Fuck everything, throw the entire draft away to own a replacement-level QB!" That is RISKY. And the only way it's worthwhile is twofold: One, does the reward match the actual risk.. and two, is the % chance that the reward will pay off greater than 50%? Frankly, the chance that Mariota is a savior is 5% AT BEST. The risk is that the D departures mean the D sucks even more in 2015 than 2014, the QB depth chart includes 2 guys who would lose to Billy Volek, the OL still has to start Turnstile Schwartz, we still have no WR, and we have only blocking TE's. That's the future if the Browns employ your strategy. And the ONLY defense of that move is the unproven assertion that Mariota equals savior. You have ZERO PROOF that will actually materialize... just bizarre platitudes about "taking a shot." How many super bowls did Ricky Williams win the Saints? How did that Herschel Walker trade work out for Minnesota? How's RG3 doing? Show the number of times the Steelers have mortgaged their future for one player. Show the number of times the Ravens have mortgaged their future for one player. Why do you think the consistently great teams DO NOT do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 couch is the perfect example of how not to build a team. put him on a good team coming out of college (good OL, running game, WRs and defense) and i'm sure we wouldn't think of him the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.