BaconHound Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 i don't think farmer made many mistakes year sans the JF pick card handed to him by the owner. i think if haslam let's his employees do their jobs w/o interference this could be a great draft. selling your soul for 1 unproven rookie at the most important position in the game is never a good idea unless you and your staff have the guy as your potential prized 'no doubt whatsoever' pick. and i doubt anyone in any FO this year besides tampa bay or philly think either winston or mariota are the next andrew luck. but hey, you never know. that's why we're not sitting in those seats. Right now Gilbert is underperforming as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Right now Gilbert is underperforming as well. well not right now because no one is playing. last year? yes, he greatly underperformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 lol... if he's underperforming in the off-season, then we really have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think one thing we can bank on with Mariota. He will know the playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Learn like a Brown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think we should forget about Mariota and work on other positions this year and eye up cardale jones in the next draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think we should forget about Mariota and work on other positions this year and eye up cardale jones in the next draft Absolutely agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 God I really hope somebody takes Mariota before our FO has the chance to fuck up another draft. Ha ha my thoughts exactly. Some sucker is going to get stuck with him, and as history shows that sucker is usually the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Mariota is not accurate, period. Go watch the OSU game again: He repeatedly missed wide-open receivers while not under pressure. And OSU was the first defense he faced all year that was able to put serious pressure on him... just like every AFCN team will always be able to do. Is he teachable? Yes. Is he a professional? Yes. But he is not worth trading up for, let alone multiple first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yet another person who doesn't know football. Here is what people who actually know said about Bitonio http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000448750/article/rookie-watch-2015-pro-bowl-picks-and-snubs I believe he is even is/was in consideration for offensive rookie of the year honors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Mariota is not accurate, period. Go watch the OSU game again: He repeatedly missed wide-open receivers while not under pressure. And OSU was the first defense he faced all year that was able to put serious pressure on him... just like every AFCN team will always be able to do. Is he teachable? Yes. Is he a professional? Yes. But he is not worth trading up for, let alone multiple first round picks. ^this. this is not the year. a month ago i wouldn't have said this but the browns need to see if manziel gets it now, is going to take this seriously and take a giant step in all of his game. meanwhile i'd expect the browns either to re-sign hoyer or get another stop-gap QB while they still build the rest of the team via FA and draft. a lot of big names will be available at positions of need that shouldn't be passed on because we trade the farm to get another unproven that everyone is guessing on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andeftw Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 ^this. this is not the year. a month ago i wouldn't have said this but the browns need to see if manziel gets it now, is going to take this seriously and take a giant step in all of his game. meanwhile i'd expect the browns either to re-sign hoyer or get another stop-gap QB while they still build the rest of the team via FA and draft. a lot of big names will be available at positions of need that shouldn't be passed on because we trade the farm to get another unproven that everyone is guessing on. That has to be the mindset. The Browns are not in a position where having Manziel or a solid starting QB will be the difference between finishing around .500 or getting to the Superbowl. Fill the other needs through the draft and free agency, without compromising your cap or next years' draft picks, and give the players a season to get comfortable with each other. If by the end of the season Manziel has proven to be a failure, the goal in 2016 has to be to find a solid QB, whether it's Cardale or someone who becomes available through trade/FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 That has to be the mindset. The Browns are not in a position where having Manziel or a solid starting QB will be the difference between finishing around .500 or getting to the Superbowl. Fill the other needs through the draft and free agency, without compromising your cap or next years' draft picks, and give the players a season to get comfortable with each other. If by the end of the season Manziel has proven to be a failure, the goal in 2016 has to be to find a solid QB, whether it's Cardale or someone who becomes available through trade/FA. I'd venture that they are, considering as they almost finished .500 with Hoyer at the helm. I don't see why some fans think we're so devoid of talent. We have a very talented team. Holes? Sure. We could use a bookend tackle, a DT, a pass rusher and a #1 WR. But, on paper, you could have said the same about the Patriots or Seahawks at the beginning of this season. Meanwhile the Broncos, on paper, looked to be locks. It doesn't matter the individual talent of each position, it matters how well the team performs cohesively. We could stand an upgrade at some positions but overall we have a solidly talented team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'd venture that they are, considering as they almost finished .500 with Hoyer at the helm. I don't see why some fans think we're so devoid of talent. We have a very talented team. Holes? Sure. We could use a bookend tackle, a DT, a pass rusher and a #1 WR. But, on paper, you could have said the same about the Patriots or Seahawks at the beginning of this season. Meanwhile the Broncos, on paper, looked to be locks. It doesn't matter the individual talent of each position, it matters how well the team performs cohesively. We could stand an upgrade at some positions but overall we have a solidly talented team. i think the browns have a lot of talent. the question is do you trade your first round and 'something' else to move up to take winston or mariota when no one has them graded as the next andrew luck? meanwhile with the first round we could get a dominate DT, a #1 WR and the rest you mentioned plus more in the later rounds (depending how much maneuvering the browns do). then if the FO thinks we're just that QB away next year you go all in. hell, a lot of people thought (cough) manziel was the answer last year and we all see how good that worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 i think the browns have a lot of talent. the question is do you trade your first round and 'something' else to move up to take winston or mariota when no one has them graded as the next andrew luck? meanwhile with the first round we could get a dominate DT, a #1 WR and the rest you mentioned plus more in the later rounds (depending how much maneuvering the browns do). then if the FO thinks we're just that QB away next year you go all in. hell, a lot of people thought (cough) manziel was the answer last year and we all see how good that worked out. If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended). Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation. Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation. Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk. Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out. Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair. We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 How well that worked out... We are talented... O-line and secondary in particular... and are good in many other areas. What we lack are impact players. Maybe a better way to think of it is talent at impact positions. a month ago i wouldn't have said this but the browns need to see if manziel gets it now, is going to take this seriously and take a giant step in all of his game. I, as well, think you have to take a second look, if a dedicated football player emerges. However, I see areas of his game rehab won't fix. So if the FO thinks one of the two top guys is the one, they have to go for him. What they cannot do is go all-in on a possibility they've built into something greater in their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended). Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation. Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation. Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk. Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out. Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair. We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set. Actually this season has begun to show his flaws. He doesn't come off of his first read very well, he has "slow eyes". When he does, the exaggerated wind up and deliver mean the ball comes out a bit late to his second read. Obviously his throwing mechanics aren't terrible, but they aren't as crisp as he'll need. The final issue is how quickly he likes to check down to his RB. Very Brady Quinn-esque. There are times when I see the 1st round investment and times that scare me, but to say he's a very complete QB would not be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sienn13 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 But you guys are all forgetting the most important thing that gets the media foaming at the mouth in Cleveland. We have to draft the elite qb or everything else is fucking crap! Fuck the DL, OL, WR, or any other position. If we dont have that elite QB the browns will never go more than 3-13. So I say trade all our draft picts, haden, thomas and mack for that elite QB so we can go to the super bowl! /sarc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 But you guys are all forgetting the most important thing that gets the media foaming at the mouth in Cleveland. We have to draft the elite qb or everything else is fucking crap! Fuck the DL, OL, WR, or any other position. If we dont have that elite QB the browns will never go more than 3-13. So I say trade all our draft picts, haden, thomas and mack for that elite QB so we can go to the super bowl! /sarc we drafted him last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 But you guys are all forgetting the most important thing that gets the media foaming at the mouth in Cleveland. We have to draft the elite qb or everything else is fucking crap! Fuck the DL, OL, WR, or any other position. If we dont have that elite QB the browns will never go more than 3-13. So I say trade all our draft picts, haden, thomas and mack for that elite QB so we can go to the super bowl! /sarc Your sarcasm is duly noted but...answer me this, how well has drafting for every position worked for us? Exactly. But...but...but...offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Actually this season has begun to show his flaws. He doesn't come off of his first read very well, he has "slow eyes". When he does, the exaggerated wind up and deliver mean the ball comes out a bit late to his second read. Obviously his throwing mechanics aren't terrible, but they aren't as crisp as he'll need. The final issue is how quickly he likes to check down to his RB. Very Brady Quinn-esque. There are times when I see the 1st round investment and times that scare me, but to say he's a very complete QB would not be accurate. I've watched the same film you have and some of those worries are warranted to the extent that they aren't perfect traits. However, his read progression, throwing mechanics, delivery, etc. are still more than adequate. He'd have been the second quarterback taken behind Luck, the first quarterback taken last year. It's easy to nitpick but he's still head and shoulders ahead of Manziel as a pro ready prospect. If he can be had for Manziel, a first and one more pick, there's no way I wouldn't take it. Even if it was for both firsts...but I'd hope we'd at least receive a mid round in exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Your sarcasm is duly noted but...answer me this, how well has drafting for every position worked for us? Exactly. But...but...but...offensive line. In the last 5 years? Quite well, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sienn13 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 In the last 5 years? Quite well, actually. Thanks Tiamat, and FYI TCPO I still were your jersey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 In the last 5 years? Quite well, actually. 7 wins is quite well? I'm sorry, but your bar is much lower than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andeftw Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'd venture that they are, considering as they almost finished .500 with Hoyer at the helm. I don't see why some fans think we're so devoid of talent. We have a very talented team. Holes? Sure. We could use a bookend tackle, a DT, a pass rusher and a #1 WR. But, on paper, you could have said the same about the Patriots or Seahawks at the beginning of this season. Meanwhile the Broncos, on paper, looked to be locks. It doesn't matter the individual talent of each position, it matters how well the team performs cohesively. We could stand an upgrade at some positions but overall we have a solidly talented team. Then we'll have to disagree on that point. The Browns have an excellent core at the moment, but they are as close to the Superbowl contenders as they are to the Buccaneers and Jaguars. (Strictly looking at the 2014 record, they fall right in between Tampa Bay and the top five teams which finished 12-4.) The team almost finished .500 with an easy schedule and they barely won games against some of the worst teams in the league (Saints, Falcons, Raiders, Buccaneers, Titans). The Broncos still made it to the Divisional round though, and would have played in the AFC Championship if Manning could still throw the ball accurately over 20 yards. The Patriots struggled at the start of the season, sure, but they have a secondary which is just as good as the Brown's and a Tom Brady led offense. The Seahawks played poorly at the start of the season, but they still had the best defense in the league and a dominant running game. The Browns do not have a dominant defense unless they can fill the needs in the front seven this offseason. The running game is good (if the OL stays healthy), but nothing exceptional, and the QB/WR groups are as bad as you'll find in the NFL. I like the direction the team is going and the plan that is in place with regards to personnel, but there is still a long way to go before I can be convinced that the Browns are anything more than a somewhat competitive team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA. And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel. Well that's the kiss of death. Foolish? Browns? OK, give away the house for another in a long line of QB's. It's the Browns being the Foolish Browns at their best. Reputation for that is on the line and far more important than building from the inside out. Sweet Jesus we have 10 draft picks this year and tons of cap money to find a truly dominating defense and O line. Don't throw that all away once again. If you build it properly, the QB will want to be here. It would seem to me that giving away the bank to get one of these two goes against Terry's "informational" article of two weeks ago other that they were not sure what to do at QB yet. http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/01/terrys_talkin_about_the_clevel_41.html#incart_related_stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel. Not sure about that. I think if they could package him in a trade they would/will. "Hey, I got a skinny 5'11 QB with no pocket passing skills, he's in rehab now, but would look great on your roster, what are you willing to give up for him?" I think we may be stuck with Johnny, but that should not effect what we do to address the starting QB position, whether that is bringing in the right free agent or going all in on Mariotta. We are lucky in that we have enough draft picks and money that we can just eat this pick and move on. Zombo --and if he sticks on the roster and eventually makes something of himself, all the better. Be we would be foolish to count on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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