Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BrownieMan

"Browns won't target a WR in the first round"

Recommended Posts

Are you serious? We better have a good plan for getting a WR. Either 1st round, 2nd round, or a big free agent. I am not going to be happy about a Miles Austin/Taylor Gabriel WR core next year.

 

Read it here: http://walterfootball.com/draft2015rumorsteams.php

 

I sure hope that guy is wrong.

 

Our WR corps was more than serviceable this year. It's the QB that is the issue.

 

Either get a QB or get a true #1. It's time to stop trying to Moneyball the NFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good, the Browns have too many other needs.

 

A first round wr is a wasted pick.

I agree. On O, receiver is the least important position. I say that because in order for them to max out, every other position has to be playing well. If your QB, O-line, or running game is weak, receivers can be neutralized fairly easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't bother me at all. There's plenty of wide receiver talent to be had in the 2nd round and beyond.

Your leading receiver for the SuperBowl winner was drafted in the 7th round and the SuperBowl runner up was undrafted.

 

This fad of having flash at the skill positions you think would wear thin by now. If you're solid in the trenches, your skill players automatically become that much better.

 

Give me DL/OL/LB/ in the 1st depending on BPA then Coates or Devin in the 2nd. Then one more receiver in the later rounds. If the Oline stays healthy along with Crow and West,

the receivers will be the least of our concerns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much more clear does Farmer have to get on his philosophy when it comes to WRs?

 

That said, and maybe I am alone here, but not "targeting" a WR does not mean to me that will absolutely not pick one... does not even mean we won't pick one relatively high... which for Farmer would be Day Two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WR is a shiny hood ornament.

 

Farmer is right to go OL/DL/QB in 1 and 2.

 

All of the Seahawks WR were undrafted, and the Pats' earliest was a 3rd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. On O, receiver is the least important position. I say that because in order for them to max out, every other position has to be playing well. If your QB, O-line, or running game is weak, receivers can be neutralized fairly easily.

Farmer's belief is that a WR is only only touches the ball 6-8 plays per game. Which is true. Of course, it is nice to have that long ball when you need it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with qb/OL/DL. Neither Superbowl team had a true #1 receiver.

The QB won't be there though that could make a difference.

But then.....look at the QBs in the game yesterday......a 3rd rounder and a 6th rounder.

and consider: Bart Starr 17th round.

George Blanda: 12th round

Roger Staubach 10th round

John Unitas 9th round

Bob Waterfield 5th round

Van Brocklin/Jurgenson both 4th round

Tarkenton and Montana 3rd round

(but of course, by far the most HOF QBs were taken in round 1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I know he would be expensive and we would have to overpay(relative to Dallas and other more desirable places) to get him, but watching Johnny throw to dez Bryant would be nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quarterback and wide receiver duos always had a great supporting cast for all the great nfl teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The QB won't be there though that could make a difference.

But then.....look at the QBs in the game yesterday......a 3rd rounder and a 6th rounder.

and consider: Bart Starr 17th round.

George Blanda: 12th round

Roger Staubach 10th round

John Unitas 9th round

Bob Waterfield 5th round

Van Brocklin/Jurgenson both 4th round

Tarkenton and Montana 3rd round

(but of course, by far the most HOF QBs were taken in round 1)

And don't forget, you're going back some way there, to an era where there was much less scouting, and what scouting there was wasn't as sophisticated - how much 'coaches tape' was readily available in the 60's and 70's, for example? The combine as we know it wasn't around until the mid 80's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shelton and McKinney or OL fill our Largest needs. WR's Sammy Watkins to Odell Beckem it's a total Crap shoot..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The QB won't be there though that could make a difference.

But then.....look at the QBs in the game yesterday......a 3rd rounder and a 6th rounder.

and consider: Bart Starr 17th round.

George Blanda: 12th round

Roger Staubach 10th round

John Unitas 9th round

Bob Waterfield 5th round

Van Brocklin/Jurgenson both 4th round

Tarkenton and Montana 3rd round

(but of course, by far the most HOF QBs were taken in round 1)

Definitely true. I didn't mean to imply qb is the first on the list. I just lumped those positions together. To me those are top priority in any order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And don't forget, you're going back some way there, to an era where there was much less scouting, and what scouting there was wasn't as sophisticated - how much 'coaches tape' was readily available in the 60's and 70's, for example? The combine as we know it wasn't around until the mid 80's.

All that 'sophistication' really paid off in the recent Browns drafts.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DL, OL and ILB depending upon free agency losses and pickups. WR has several decent ones under the radar this year we can get after those first 3 needs are filled IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for the record the Browns have an all pro number one receiver. The team plays better when he is suspended. Another great reason not to cut him!

;)

WSS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for the record the Browns have an all pro number one receiver. The team plays better when he is suspended. Another great reason not to cut him!

;)

WSS

Just keep him permanently stoned? For the good of the team, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the championship round there was one WR on all four teams combined that was a first round pick. That guy, Hakeem Nicks, was nothing more than a depth guy for the Colts who played zero role in their season or the playoffs. I've been preaching to anyone who will listen that WR is absolutely not a position to draft in the first round unless the value is incredible. The best teams do this and so should the Browns. Strengthen the defense, anchor the line and then find your WR corp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you shouldn't use just one example to make a conclusion...

 

like with a lot of positions, it's a hit or miss. It depends on a lot of things...

can a team sign good free agents because they are a playoff team?

How badly does a team need to upgrade the wr's they have, through the draft,

if not through FA?

 

Does a team have most of the pieces in place, but they need that #1 wr?

 

Green has been a star for the Bengals...

 

I think the most dramatic addition to the Browns this year, would be a star wr to replace

Gordon. I think that guy is White.

 

Here's a pretty cool list of first and second round wr's....

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/05/03/4884867/nfl-draft-a-decade-of-wide-receiver.html#.VNDqUGjF-rU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the championship round there was one WR on all four teams combined that was a first round pick. That guy, Hakeem Nicks, was nothing more than a depth guy for the Colts who played zero role in their season or the playoffs. I've been preaching to anyone who will listen that WR is absolutely not a position to draft in the first round unless the value is incredible. The best teams do this and so should the Browns. Strengthen the defense, anchor the line and then find your WR corp.

 

 

I agree, but it's not like that's a cut and paste strategy that works for every team. Even the two championship teams have very different strategies. Tale a look at their starting players' draft positions in the trenches.

 

Seahawks-

 

Russell Okung LT - 1st round pick by Seattle

James Carpenter- LG - 1st round pick by Seattle

Max Unger C - 2nd round pick by Seattle

J.R. Sweezy RG- 7th round pick by Seattle

Justin Britt RT - 2nd round pick by Seattle

 

Michael Bennett LE - Undrafted by Seahawks

Tony McDaniel DT - Undrafted by Jaguars

Kevin Williams DT - 1st round pick by the Vikings

Cliff Avril RE - 3rd round pick by the Lions

 

Patriots -

 

Nate Solder LT - 1st round pick by the Patriots

Dan Connolly LG - Undrafted by Jaguars

Bryan Stork C - 4th round pick for Patriots

Ryan Wendell RG - Undrafted by Patriots

Sebastian Vollmer RT - 2nd round pick by Patriots

 

Rob Ninkovich LE - 5th round pick by the Saints

Vince Wilfork DT - 1st round pick by the Patriots

Chris Jones DT - 6th round pick by the Texans

Chandler Jones RE - 1st round pick by the Patriots

 

The Seahawks invested heavily in their offensive line, with two first round picks, two second round picks, and then a draft gem in 7th round pick J.R. Sweezy. In contrast, the Patriots offensive line features only one first round pick, one second round pick, one fourth round pick and two undrafted players.

 

Seattle's defensive line (in a four man front) features two undrafted players, a 3rd round pick and one first round pick. Only one player on the Seahawks defensive line was drafted by Seattle. Their talent is accumulated at DT and RE, with Williams and Avril. The Patriots are slightly similar, they have their best talent at one DT position and then at RE. Only those two players were drafted by the Patriots.

 

Everybody here is so fucking hung up on draft position. Oh, first round this, first round that. You never take this player in this round because x. It's stupid to take a player at this position because so-and-so team didn't do it and look at their success.

 

There are an infinite number of variables that can be to blame for why one team is good and another isn't - not just because one team has a first round something and the other team doesn't. We don't need to draft two offensive guards with our first two picks just because Seattle has one. We don't need to wait until the 6th round to take a quarterback because the Patriots experienced success with Brady. We need an identity and, more importantly, we need to stick with it.

 

You take whatever player you need, when you need him, if you believe he is the best prospect for the identity you're trying to build. If that's a smash-mouth running team, you don't need to invest in an early WR, you need to invest in an offensive line. If you want to build a read-option, vertical threat team, you better get a receiver that can stretch the field and attack the ball and a quarterback who can run the system. The Panthers couldn't run the Patriots offense just like the Patriots couldn't run the Panthers.

 

You give nearly any coach 5-6 solid years to build his foundation and draft his own players to fit his own scheme with no interference from management, I'm sure he can field a championship level team. That's why the Patriots can stay at or near the top despite having completely different personnel. The personnel they do have fits the overall identity Belichick wants to run.

 

Imagine if the Seahawks fired Carroll after he only won 7 games in his first year. He just happened to get lucky, because 7 wins that season was enough to win the then-shitty NFC West.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a strong group of WR's in FA this year.....id hope to see Farmer to tab one from this group and save those higher picks for the non skill need positions.....DL - LB - OL.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I agree, but it's not like that's a cut and paste strategy that works for every team. Even the two championship teams have very different strategies. Tale a look at their starting players' draft positions in the trenches.

 

Seahawks-

 

Russell Okung LT - 1st round pick by Seattle

James Carpenter- LG - 1st round pick by Seattle

Max Unger C - 2nd round pick by Seattle

J.R. Sweezy RG- 7th round pick by Seattle

Justin Britt RT - 2nd round pick by Seattle

 

Michael Bennett LE - Undrafted by Seahawks

Tony McDaniel DT - Undrafted by Jaguars

Kevin Williams DT - 1st round pick by the Vikings

Cliff Avril RE - 3rd round pick by the Lions

 

Patriots -

 

Nate Solder LT - 1st round pick by the Patriots

Dan Connolly LG - Undrafted by Jaguars

Bryan Stork C - 4th round pick for Patriots

Ryan Wendell RG - Undrafted by Patriots

Sebastian Vollmer RT - 2nd round pick by Patriots

 

Rob Ninkovich LE - 5th round pick by the Saints

Vince Wilfork DT - 1st round pick by the Patriots

Chris Jones DT - 6th round pick by the Texans

Chandler Jones RE - 1st round pick by the Patriots

 

The Seahawks invested heavily in their offensive line, with two first round picks, two second round picks, and then a draft gem in 7th round pick J.R. Sweezy. In contrast, the Patriots offensive line features only one first round pick, one second round pick, one fourth round pick and two undrafted players.

 

Seattle's defensive line (in a four man front) features two undrafted players, a 3rd round pick and one first round pick. Only one player on the Seahawks defensive line was drafted by Seattle. Their talent is accumulated at DT and RE, with Williams and Avril. The Patriots are slightly similar, they have their best talent at one DT position and then at RE. Only those two players were drafted by the Patriots.

 

Everybody here is so fucking hung up on draft position. Oh, first round this, first round that. You never take this player in this round because x. It's stupid to take a player at this position because so-and-so team didn't do it and look at their success.

 

There are an infinite number of variables that can be to blame for why one team is good and another isn't - not just because one team has a first round something and the other team doesn't. We don't need to draft two offensive guards with our first two picks just because Seattle has one. We don't need to wait until the 6th round to take a quarterback because the Patriots experienced success with Brady. We need an identity and, more importantly, we need to stick with it.

 

You take whatever player you need, when you need him, if you believe he is the best prospect for the identity you're trying to build. If that's a smash-mouth running team, you don't need to invest in an early WR, you need to invest in an offensive line. If you want to build a read-option, vertical threat team, you better get a receiver that can stretch the field and attack the ball and a quarterback who can run the system. The Panthers couldn't run the Patriots offense just like the Patriots couldn't run the Panthers.

 

You give nearly any coach 5-6 solid years to build his foundation and draft his own players to fit his own scheme with no interference from management, I'm sure he can field a championship level team. That's why the Patriots can stay at or near the top despite having completely different personnel. The personnel they do have fits the overall identity Belichick wants to run.

 

Imagine if the Seahawks fired Carroll after he only won 7 games in his first year. He just happened to get lucky, because 7 wins that season was enough to win the then-shitty NFC West.

 

I hear what you're saying, but that still doesn't really change my mind. I get what you're going for and I don't inherently disagree. I'm very much of the mindset to have a BPA approach in terms of positions of need-which WR is clearly one. However, if I'm looking at the draft sitting there at #12 and there's equal value at DT or OLB/DE and WR, I'm taking the former two in a second. This appears to clearly be the approach of Farmer as well and some of the top teams in the NFL. I'm not going to shake my fist if we take a 1st round WR (I think Davonte Parker is the dude this year) but without a QB the whole point is moot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely ridiculous!

Take a fucking wideout, they need one badly!!!

Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.

WSS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.

WSS

Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×