MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 You are such an arrogant twat. I'd love to see you get airlifted into a Muslim country. You and every other apologist. Change your fucking attitude real quick. I''d love to see you airlifted into one as well. That way you could fight the good fight your insane ass goes on about every day. They're all monsters. All terrorists. They all threaten the rest of us. And what do you do? You sit on your ass at a computer and insult them all day. You sit on your ass and post the most insane shit I've ever read on here. You post shit that if it was linked to you in real life, the people around you would question your sanity. So please, stock up. Get your weapons. Head over their and fight. Let us know how it goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just when I think these threads can't get worse. They do. Congrats. We now know all Muslims agree with ISIS. All are sand people. None of them have spoken out against ISIS and terrorism in general. None. Shocking I know, but it is true. Walter said so. Woody comes in and its like letting the special education kids get their say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Once again and emotional response from a frightened 22 year old kid fresh off the campus. You totally dodged the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Where is the LGBT community to stand up for the oppression of gays in middle eastern countries? Where is the Feminist movement to stand up for the oppression of women in middle eastern countries? Where are all the edgy atheist in Hollywood to stand up for free thinking in Middle Eastern countries? The point is that Liberals don't want to get caught in the crossfire, they constantly slam the right wing over all of these things^ yet they are too fucking scared to go after Muslims for it. They witness a Republican doing it and it's outrage, they witness a Muslim doing it and turn a blind eye to it. It's fucking fruity and irritating and people like Woody are responsible for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 What are you doing to stop the sand people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 France has 750 no go zones where Muslims live by Sharia Law and not French Law. This is why Liberals can't be trusted with the safety of a nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Because they love this shit. Cowards. All of them are Scum. You are correct. Most Muslims do not condone these acts of terror. You are also correct, most Muslims do love "not condoning." I find it pretty sad that you would want Muslims to condone terrorism and think they are scum for not doing so. Apparently you support terrorism. con·done verb \kən-ˈdōn\ : to forgive or approve (something that is considered wrong) : to allow (something that is considered wrong) to continue Which nation has. The Palestinian fake president attending the rally? The Iraqis because of fear of Isis and our air strikes. I have not heard any Muslim group come out and say this is not what they represent. Because the koran tells them to kill Your inability to Google "Muslims oppose Paris terrorism" is not Muslims fault, it is yours. More importantly, as an American why are you not coming out against ~15,000 murders in the USA last year? Why are you not coming out against rape in America when 20% of American women are raped according to the CDC? So most Christian Arabs have a hatred for Muslims. My dad told me never trust a Muslim Really? Because I was just in Egypt for three weeks. In this predominantly Muslim country, there were Christmas trees everywhere, all the Muslims I knew were calling their Christian friends and neighbors and wishing them a Merry Christmas. Their were skinny Arab Santa Clauses in the malls doing the same thing that Santas in America do. In fact, when my in-law's Christian neighbors in Egypt came home from overseas to an apartment that had no power, my Muslim mother-in-law made them food and gave them flashlights until they got their power back up later that evening. And during Christmas mass, the Muslim president of Egypt was in attendance. When was the last time all the Christians in America were calling up Muslims to wish them a happy Ramadan? When was the last time you helped a Muslim family in need? When was the last time you visited an Arab country? No, instead you'd poison yourself with your dad's bigoted "wisdom." Woody go on a trip and have a intelligent talk with an Isis member. What do you think the outcome will be? Why don't you go on a trip and have an intelligent talk with an every-day Muslim? The outcome will surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 "why do Muslims not Condon these acts of terror?" Assuming you mean 'condemn' not condone (or condon? yes, you'll get picked up for that sloppiness of spelling here and inability to go and change it once it's pointed out), they already have, as has been pointed out. For example from here, including such groups as: 6. Arab League [a regional organization representing 22 Arab countries, all of which have a majority Muslim population]: “Arab League chief Nabil al-Arabi strongly condemns the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo newspaper in Paris.” You talk about the 'fake' Palestinian president and the Iraqis doing it out of fear - what would you consider a genuine act of condemnation by any group of this attack? And what makes you think that none had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 maybe, just maybe the word he was searching for is condom. As in why don't Muslims condom the terrorists. Like putting a latex or sheepskin and petroleum jelly sheath over them? But I too tend to question the legitimacy of Palestinians and Palestine itself. I know some very nice and decent people who consider themselves Palestinian but not sure why they don't claim greater Jordan as well? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 maybe, just maybe the word he was searching for is condom. As in why don't Muslims condom the terrorists. Like putting a latex or sheepskin and petroleum jelly sheath over them? But I too tend to question the legitimacy of Palestinians and Palestine itself. I know some very nice and decent people who consider themselves Palestinian but not sure why they don't claim greater Jordan as well? WSS I was not questioning the legitimacy of Palestine itself, that's another debate for another day. Rather, if Palestine considers itself a state, and a muslim one at that, you'd expect them to attempt to take part in such geopolitical events as this and the message is the same from them as it is from every other country - these people do not represent the world of Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 That being said, I agree that nobody has attempted to put a condom on the entirety of ISIS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I was not questioning the legitimacy of Palestine itself, that's another debate for another day. Rather, if Palestine considers itself a state, and a muslim one at that, you'd expect them to attempt to take part in such geopolitical events as this and the message is the same from them as it is from every other country - these people do not represent the world of Islam. no not you, whoever mentioned something about a fake Palestinian president. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 no not you, whoever mentioned something about a fake Palestinian president. WSS Me and OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 On a serious note, I'll probably have some long spiel about the Paris attacks soon, just gathering my thoughts now the initial emotion of it is subsiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 On a serious note, I'll probably have some long spiel about the Paris attacks soon, just gathering my thoughts now the initial emotion of it is subsiding. Pfffffff.... Liberal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 http://www.alternet.org/media/45-examples-muslim-outrage-about-charlie-hebdo-attack-fox-news-missed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 What's funny is in France, Canada, and Sweden you can be jailed for "offending Islam" which I do on a daily basis cause fuck em. The US and Israel are the only real democracies left. Civil War is coming and finally Europe is waking up to it. It's nice seeing the EDL, German, Polish, and Holland resistance groups standing up to the savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Pfffffff.... Liberal France's Liberal policies are why those poor men are dead. They have 750 "no go" zones in France which is why Liberals shouldn't be allowed to every control the safety of this country. I used to be against the Patriot Act and NDAA but if it means we get to imprison and spy on Muslims, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 France's Liberal policies are why those poor men are dead. They have 750 "no go" zones in France which is why Liberals shouldn't be allowed to every control the safety of this country. I used to be against the Patriot Act and NDAA but if it means we get to imprison and spy on Muslims, I'm all for it. Where exactly are these no-go zones? I go to France a lot and would be keen to avoid them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 http://www.catholic.org/news/international/europe/story.php?id=58341 It's Catholic so feel free to make fun of it and degrade it. and the list: http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Right, I see the confusion. The "Zones Urbans Sensibles" - sensible is French for sensitive (no I don't know why) - are areas that have high rights of urban 'dysfunctionality' such as high crime, unemployment etc. rather than being 'muslim-only' areas. These zones actually get targeted for urban redevelopment, meaning that the government in fact has more input in those areas than in the rest of the country, in general. Of course, some areas you can go and feel quite unsafe, and I don't doubt that some of those are highly muslim areas. But equally, there are areas of the UK and France I wouldn't decide to spend my holiday for similar reasons, but that also includes high eastern-african populations, highly thuggish/chavvy populations. For example, I went to a pub with an American friend whose family is Indian (not native american, brown), and we got in to the place and everyone stopped talking, looked at us - one of those places, I'm sure they exist everywhere. No cards, only cash, attack dogs at the ready, football firm tattoos, that kind of place. Another pub in the same area, we got in, ordered a pint and the regulars started crowding around us. Not sure if it was because we were 'outsiders' - my accent doesn't quite fit in these areas - or because my mate is brown, but the message was very clearly 'leave and don't come back' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Walter - maybe you should consider a move to China? http://qz.com/324805/china-has-just-banned-the-burqa-in-its-biggest-muslim-city/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 There are "Zones Urban Sensibles" around Cleveland also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think Woody grew up in the 'Strongsville imbecille zone la gay'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I think Woody grew up in the 'Strongsville imbecille zone la gay'. That's a stretch even for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Not a stretch. Only 4 miles down 82. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 It seems impossible to entertain the idea that at least some of the terrorist attacks are as a result, direct or indirect, of the actions of 'western' countries over the past couple of decades without being accused of 'making excuses' or condoning terrorism. Some people do not seem to understand the concept that the hatred of America and its allies (UK, France, Germany etc) is in part fuelled by invasions, drone strikes, perceived 'control' of the world (via the UN security council). Yet, this is an inescapable truth. We have to accept that the foreign policy of the western nations impacts in some way the fanaticism of those people who are prone to being 'converted' to extremism. On the flip side, it seems impossible to discuss the problem Islam seems to have with attracting violent people to its cause without being labelled ignorant, a bigot, intolerant. We don't tend to see terrorist attacks on the same scale from other religions (or they're not reported?) around the world. Chances are when you hear about an attack of some kind like these, it's perpetrated by people acting supposedly in the name of Islam. Then again, that might be because Walter has posted every attack in the name of Islam there has ever been. The big question for me is whether Islam is the cause of the illiteracy among the middle east and north Africa that creates the environment where people can become radicalised; or whether the illiteracy is caused by something else - poor government for example - which itself creates an environment where radicalisation is easier because people aren't able to read the quran for themselves and come to their own conclusions. On to the attacks in Paris themselves, and we quite rightly condemn them. Yet, I can't help but feel a tinge of hypocrisy from a lot of places. For example, the Egyptian leaders taking part in the rally are themselves embroiled in a controversy surrounding their imprisonment of three Al-Jazeera journalists, primarily because of a political feud with Qatar (where Al-Jazeera is based). On a slightly less serious note, take a glance at #FoxNewsFacts on Twitter. After some utter moron described Birmingham (UK) as a completely muslim city - pro tip, it's not - lots of things were being purported as what Fox might describe as facts. Instead of taking it on the chin, Fox has started ordering people to delete the tweets or 'face legal action' - freedom of speech? Not if Fox can help it. Side note: white house says it should have sent someone more senior. Yes, yes it should. And what of Boko Haram, rampaging through Nigeria killing thousands of innocent people? It's in the news, yes, but because it's 'only' Nigeria, 'only' Africa, we somehow write it off, with an attitude of 'Well, Africa is Africa, that whole place is fucked, not much we can do about it.' Not to mention the bombing of that NAACP chapter in Colorado the same day as the attacks in Paris. The attackers themselves have claimed separately to be from Al-Qaeda and ISIS, yet also claimed to be working together. The chances of Al-Qaeda and ISIS working together about the same as Israel and Palestine working together, so who the fuck knows what's happening there. All this leads to the big question of 'what do we do about it?' Well, two things, in my mind. In the short term, we must do what we can to take care of ISIS. They are the biggest threat to democracy that we are facing currently - all other organisations out there are fighting for lands they consider their own: the taliban in Pakistan were ruling until the west deposed them; Hamas is fighting for secession from Israel, basically as a direct result of the British 'interventions' about 100 years ago. Al-Qaeda seems content taking pot-shots at western democracies. ISIS, however, is intent on making vast land grabs and subjecting the local populace to an extremely harsh form of Shaira law. Once ISIS is broken, probably with the billionaire leader taken out, we can continue to fight the others. In the longer term, we must strive to improve the literacy and general education level of these countries that seem to be the training grounds of radicalists and make it clear that people are free to belong to any religion they choose, and that nobody has any kind of divine mandate to force any religion on any other people. We must also improve the perceptions of the west among muslims, and the perception of muslims among the west. When things come to light like the 'torture report' recently, what effect do you think that will have on people on the edge of converting to radical Islam? When the local populace's only knowledge of America, the UK and the rest is in the form of soldiers and air strikes? To be clear, this cannot be done solely by the west. This needs cooperation from the countries in question, needs governments willing to make the change, and needs time to actually come to fruition. There will undoubtedly be people who view any cooperation on the behalf of their government as 'westernising' their country (or as 'muslimising' their country maybe), yet that must be overcome. The world needs to work together to overcome this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 “In the land of Gibberish, the man who makes sense, the man who speaks clearly, clearly speaks nonsense.” ― Jarod Kintz, This Book Has No Title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Thanks for this thoughtful post and your balanced approach. I'd like to respond to you from my perspective as someone that has lived in both worlds (east and west). See below in red. It seems impossible to entertain the idea that at least some of the terrorist attacks are as a result, direct or indirect, of the actions of 'western' countries over the past couple of decades without being accused of 'making excuses' or condoning terrorism. Some people do not seem to understand the concept that the hatred of America and its allies (UK, France, Germany etc) is in part fuelled by invasions, drone strikes, perceived 'control' of the world (via the UN security council). Yet, this is an inescapable truth. We have to accept that the foreign policy of the western nations impacts in some way the fanaticism of those people who are prone to being 'converted' to extremism. I agree 100% with this. The extent of the self-delusion that somehow actions don't have consequences has often had me (and many in the Muslim world) speculating that the delusion is propagated for the purpose of maintaining public support for military actions against Muslim countries. On the flip side, it seems impossible to discuss the problem Islam seems to have with attracting violent people to its cause without being labelled ignorant, a bigot, intolerant. We don't tend to see terrorist attacks on the same scale from other religions (or they're not reported?) around the world. Chances are when you hear about an attack of some kind like these, it's perpetrated by people acting supposedly in the name of Islam. Then again, that might be because Walter has posted every attack in the name of Islam there has ever been. You actually touch on two topics in this paragraph, so first the one about Islam attracting violent people to its cause. I do not think it is ignorant to ask the question if your heart is open and sincere in the asking. However, most people who ask "Does Islam attract violent people to it?" are really stating their belief: "Islam attracts violent people to it." So when people respond that asking this question is ignorant, bigoted, and intolerant, they are responding to the intent of the statement masquerading as a question. Because I know YOU as much as anyone can know anyone from their forum posts, I know enough to know you are asking the question as a question. So, does Islam attract violent people to it? Or at least, does it do so any more so than any other religion? Well, consider that Christians throughout history have killed far more people than Muslims have (the same link demonstrates that Muslim extremists are responsible for only 6% of terror attacks recorded by the FBI). In fact, right now tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing for their lives as Christian militias In CAR try to slaughter them. I needn't remind you of Bosnia, either. Consider that their are currently Buddhists massacring Muslims in Myanmar. Yet the Western world sees these killings in France as more tragic despite the death toll being orders of magnitude smaller than those Muslims killed in any of the examples I've mentioned. Do the happenings in Myanmar and CAR get reported to the same extent in Western media? No. This supports the impression in the Muslim world that Westerners do not value all innocent human lives equally. So take this message to heart: the extent of the reporting of the violence does not correlate with the extent of the violence. Therefore, getting back to your original question, what one should ask is "Why does Islam APPEAR to the Western world to attract violent people to it?" Once you begin to realize there is a specific narrative that is being propagated in the west for the purposes of maintaining a pretext for military action whenever a western government pleases, this all starts to fall into place. Their is an agenda being driven, and Walter is wittingly or unwittingly a pawn in that agenda. The big question for me is whether Islam is the cause of the illiteracy among the middle east and north Africa that creates the environment where people can become radicalised; or whether the illiteracy is caused by something else - poor government for example - which itself creates an environment where radicalisation is easier because people aren't able to read the quran for themselves and come to their own conclusions. Fortunately your biggest question is the easiest to answer. Nothing could be further from the truth. Logically speaking, since one of the major duties of every Muslim is to read the Quran, then how could it possibly be doing anything other than promoting literacy? In fact, the story of Mohammed's revelation could be used (and probably has been) as an advertisement for a literacy campaign in Muslim countries. Briefly, the story goes that Mohammed was meditating in a mountain cave when the angel Gabriel came to him. Here is the translation of what Gabriel said to Mohammed: "Read: In the name of the Lord Who creates, Creates man from a clot. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who teaches by the pen, Teaches man that which he knew not." What I can guarantee you is that the literacy rate in Muslim countries would be worse without Islam. Therefore, the cause of the illiteracy. In my opinion, the reason is, as you speculated, poor governance. I believe the governments of the Middle-East see an educated populace as a threat to their power, and it is for that reason that in Egypt a good education can not be had through the public system and all families that are able send their children to private schools instead. Ultimately, whether you believe the illiteracy is due to willful or unwillful neglect, the blame rests squarely on the governments of these nations. On to the attacks in Paris themselves, and we quite rightly condemn them. Yet, I can't help but feel a tinge of hypocrisy from a lot of places. For example, the Egyptian leaders taking part in the rally are themselves embroiled in a controversy surrounding their imprisonment of three Al-Jazeera journalists, primarily because of a political feud with Qatar (where Al-Jazeera is based). Yes, that is indeed hypocritical. People in Muslim world view many more hypocrisies surrounding these event. Muslims ask why Europe fails to condemn anti-Muslim attacks in Europe. Why the USA supports the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt even though they are viewed as terrorists by Egypt and many others (and have been committing acts of terror in Egypt). They ask how state leaders who have killed thousands of Muslims in acts of terror be allowed to attend the rally in Paris. And while the imprisonment of the Al-Jazeera journalists is horrible, when will the West look inwardly to see how our freedom of the press is restricted so that only the anti-Muslim narrative can flourish? Why was their so much opposition to Al-Jazeera opening a news station in the USA? Side note: white house says it should have sent someone more senior. Yes, yes it should. And what of Boko Haram, rampaging through Nigeria killing thousands of innocent people? It's in the news, yes, but because it's 'only' Nigeria, 'only' Africa, we somehow write it off, with an attitude of 'Well, Africa is Africa, that whole place is fucked, not much we can do about it.' Not to mention the bombing of that NAACP chapter in Colorado the same day as the attacks in Paris. And again, what of the Budhist Killer Monks, and the Christian Militias, the Left Wing Extremists, Communists, Latinos, and Jewish Extremists? In Europe, what about the separatists? The attackers themselves have claimed separately to be from Al-Qaeda and ISIS, yet also claimed to be working together. The chances of Al-Qaeda and ISIS working together about the same as Israel and Palestine working together, so who the fuck knows what's happening there. All this leads to the big question of 'what do we do about it?' Well, two things, in my mind. In the short term, we must do what we can to take care of ISIS. They are the biggest threat to democracy that we are facing currently - all other organisations out there are fighting for lands they consider their own: the taliban in Pakistan were ruling until the west deposed them; Hamas is fighting for secession from Israel, basically as a direct result of the British 'interventions' about 100 years ago. Al-Qaeda seems content taking pot-shots at western democracies. ISIS, however, is intent on making vast land grabs and subjecting the local populace to an extremely harsh form of Shaira law. Once ISIS is broken, probably with the billionaire leader taken out, we can continue to fight the others. In the longer term, we must strive to improve the literacy and general education level of these countries that seem to be the training grounds of radicalists and make it clear that people are free to belong to any religion they choose, and that nobody has any kind of divine mandate to force any religion on any other people. We must also improve the perceptions of the west among muslims, and the perception of muslims among the west. When things come to light like the 'torture report' recently, what effect do you think that will have on people on the edge of converting to radical Islam? When the local populace's only knowledge of America, the UK and the rest is in the form of soldiers and air strikes? Agreed, but also importantly, we must change the way the narrative is conducted. Right now it is a narrative driven by generalizations that lump moderate/liberal/progressive Muslims like myself in with people we do not consider to be Muslims. This is not conducive to opening a dialog that could lead to what I'd like to see: western society and moderate Muslims as allies in the fight against radicals. The people best equipped to advise and spearhead a movement against the radical ideology are the moderate Muslims, but we can only accomplish it if our voices become part of the mainstream media, and not in the confrontational mode that we saw CNN (see my Reza Aslan post) and Fox promoting, but one of support, to hold up the moderates doing good in society as heroes: The Ahmed Merabets and Lassana Bathilys who barely receive a metion here in the USA. To be clear, this cannot be done solely by the west. This needs cooperation from the countries in question, needs governments willing to make the change, and needs time to actually come to fruition. There will undoubtedly be people who view any cooperation on the behalf of their government as 'westernising' their country (or as 'muslimising' their country maybe), yet that must be overcome. The world needs to work together to overcome this problem. Amen. The world needs to LEARN how to work together before it can work together, and that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh lord...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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