LCDawgFan13 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/20...tive_going.html I saw this on Cleveland PD. Has eanyone else heard anything more on it? I think it would be a great trade for the Cavs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/20...tive_going.html I saw this on Cleveland PD. Has eanyone else heard anything more on it? I think it would be a great trade for the Cavs! I hope this guy has an adequate source he's going by and didn't just read our hype here over Shaq and ran with a story. This is the best news possible, IMO. I really like this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDawgFan13 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I hope this guy has an adequate source he's going by and didn't just read our hype here over Shaq and ran with a story. This is the best news possible, IMO. I really like this deal. I totally agree! This wins this year and possibly next year and keeps our money open for 2010! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Don't know about how he fits in. I guess at power forward, a 7-1 foot power forward? I think it would be a good move though. Imagine if they can get rid of Wally-World and a draft pick for Richard Jefferson, I can only dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Don't know about how he fits in. I guess at power forward, a 7-1 foot power forward? I think it would be a good move though. Imagine if they can get rid of Wally-World and a draft pick for Richard Jefferson, I can only dream. Why would you want to get rid of wally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Why would you want to get rid of wally? I don't want CLE to lose Wally, but Wally for Jeferson is a good deal. Because that move doesn't screw up the rotations much. Jeferson can play 2G or SF, like Wally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Why would you want to get rid of wally? In every game I have seen either on TV or at the Q (I think I missed about 8 total), he has never hit a shot when it counted. He's soft. His legs are old and gets beat off the dribble often (his legs were not always the best anyways). Averaging 7.5 points a game and making 13 million this year? He hasn't averaged more than 10 points a game since 06-07. Come on. I know his contract expires, but I can name 50 people in the NBA making less than 10 million that are way better. 2 people on our roster that are better, Delonte West (4.5 mil) and Mo Williams (8.6 mil). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 In every game I have seen either on TV or at the Q (I think I missed about 8 total), he has never hit a shot when it counted. He's soft. His legs are old and gets beat off the dribble often (his legs were not always the best anyways). Averaging 7.5 points a game and making 13 million this year? He hasn't averaged more than 10 points a game since 06-07. Come on. I know his contract expires, but I can name 50 people in the NBA making less than 10 million that are way better. 2 people on our roster that are better, Delonte West (4.5 mil) and Mo Williams (8.6 mil). Wally has his role, he's a fantastic free throw shooter, a veteran leader, and he played damn good last night in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Wally has his role, he's a fantastic free throw shooter, a veteran leader, and he played damn good last night in Toronto. Besides, there is no salary cap in basketball, who cares how much he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Cleveland Cavaliers struggling to get right deal for Shaquille O'Neal by Brian Windhorst / Plain Dealer Reporter Thursday February 19, 2009, 1:17 PM TORONTO -- The Cleveland Cavaliers' proposed deal for Phoenix Suns center Shaquille O'Neal is not dead yet, but it's in trouble. The Cavs are getting creative in trying to find a way to help the Suns save money on the deal and are trying to find another team to join the mix. The original proposal involved the Cavs sending Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic to Phoenix in exchange for O'Neal. O'Neal is paid what is left on his $21 million contract this season, plus about $20 million next year. Wallace is paid $14.5 million this season, about $14 million next year. The Suns are asking about Wally Szczerbiak because his contract expires after this season, but the Cavs don't want to lose Szczerbiak. So it appears they are hoping to bring in a third team in order to help make the deal. Wallace and Szczerbiak were at the Cavs practice today in Toronto. Pavlovic (ankle) is not traveling with the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 In every game I have seen either on TV or at the Q (I think I missed about 8 total), he has never hit a shot when it counted. He's soft. His legs are old and gets beat off the dribble often (his legs were not always the best anyways). Averaging 7.5 points a game and making 13 million this year? He hasn't averaged more than 10 points a game since 06-07. Come on. I know his contract expires, but I can name 50 people in the NBA making less than 10 million that are way better. 2 people on our roster that are better, Delonte West (4.5 mil) and Mo Williams (8.6 mil). Actually Wally was averaging over 10pts a game before he was traded to CLE. After arriving in CLE he was taking 2 less shots a game and this year 3 less a game than last. Wally can still shoot and CLE needs to have rotation at the 2G and SF. Unless CLE is getting that back in a trade, moving Wally will hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 The original aspect taht lead me to start thinking about Shaq, was how good of a fit trading Wally's deal for him would have been. When I read the lead to this story today with Sasha and Ben involved instead of Wally, I rubbed my brow and said, "hmmmm..." to myself. It didn't seem to have the same numbers-fit, and I was too lazy to calculate. I'd throw in Wally and Ben for Shaq. I like some of the stuff (setting picks) that Ben does, but Shaq is ... aah .... freaking Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Actually Wally was averaging over 10pts a game before he was traded to CLE. After arriving in CLE he was taking 2 less shots a game and this year 3 less a game than last. Wally can still shoot and CLE needs to have rotation at the 2G and SF. Unless CLE is getting that back in a trade, moving Wally will hurt. For the year he averaged 10. I see what your saying, he just can't produce the way he used to though. I would rather have Jefferson. Any NEWS? Only 20 minutes left, Ferry is probably running in circles (sort of like when he played, ohhhhhhh zing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Sasha can fill the roll of 2G and SF for CLE. But I just don't trust him on the floor and he barely tries to play D. Not to mention he seems to have forgotten how to take the ball to the hoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 For the year he averaged 10. I see what your saying, he just can't produce the way he used to though. I would rather have Jefferson. Any NEWS? Only 20 minutes left, Ferry is probably running in circles (sort of like when he played, ohhhhhhh zing) I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had. I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Good article, but not any new News Cleveland Cavaliers should make the deal to get Shaquille O'Neal by Terry Pluto / Plain Dealer Columnist Thursday February 19, 2009, 1:09 PM CLEVELAND -- Shaquille O'Neal to the Cavaliers for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic? That's the offer the Cavs are making for a future Hall of Fame center, according to Plain Dealer Cavs beat reporter Brian Windhorst -- and the Phoenix Suns supposedly are thinking about it. I am, too. Assuming coach Mike Brown, LeBron James and other key veterans are in favor of adding O'Neal, so am I -- at least for Wallace and Pavlovic. James is very close to Shaq, dating to back to when James was in high school and Shaq was in Cleveland with the Lakers. Shaq rented a limo and went to Canton to see James play a tournament game for St. Vincent-St. Mary. My guess is James is for the deal. Wallace is paid $14.5 million this season, about $14 million next year. Pavlovic is part of the deal to make it work on the cap. If this is the package, I like it because: 1. The Cavs don't have to give up a core player. Wallace is a solid starter, but not nearly as important to the team as Delonte West and Anderson Varejao -- two players whom other teams have been asking about. 2. O'Neal can still play. In 30 minutes a game, he's averaging 17.2 points, 8.8 rebounds and even shooting a career high 62 percent from the foul line. 3. Shaq does love to win. He has four titles with two different teams. At 37, this is his last chance to add a fifth ring, and that should appeal to him. The Cavs could use a low-post scoring threat because Z has been spending so much time outside. 4. His contract will be an "expiring" deal next season, much as Wally Szczerbiak's deal is today -- meaning it's in the final year, and is an attractive piece in a trade for a team with salary cap and/or money problems. That's why the Suns would rather have Szczerbiak than Wallace in this possible trade. My concerns are: 1. Will Shaq clog up the middle, meaning James and others can't drive to the basket as he and his defender are in the way? Wallace does not want the ball, so that leaves plenty of shots and room to maneuver for James and Mo Williams. 2. What impact will he have on Mike Brown's team defense? I don't know how well he moves in the context of what the Cavs need from their big man. 3. The Cavs would have to start Shaq and Anderson Varejao, and they'd have to bring Zydrunas Ilgauskas off the bench. Z and Shaq can play at times on offense because Z is such a terrific outside shooter, but that is a very slow combination on defense. 4. You don't know if this will work, and the Cavs do have real chemistry with players who know their roles. The bottom line: I'd take the chance and make the deal ... only if it's Wallace and Pavlovic. But here's the qualifier: 1. I would not sub in Szczerbiak because Wallace and Shaq and Z on the same team is too many big guys. 2. I want Szczerbiak's contract because the $13 million expires and gives the Cabs more room to sign Varejao to an extension this summer. But having Wallace and Shaq chewing up nearly $35 million on the cap next season is a nightmare. 3. If Pavlovic is traded, Delonte West coming off a broken wrist and Daniel Gibson being injury prone -- the Cavs do need Szczerbiak in the backcourt. And finally ... Will it work? I don't know. But I'll take the chance if the price is Wallace and Pavlovic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Wally has his role, he's a fantastic free throw shooter, a veteran leader, and he played damn good last night in Toronto. Besides the free throw shooting, I don't buy it. He blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had. I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around. I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Besides the free throw shooting, I don't buy it. He blows. 11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots. Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player. I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot. The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 But here's the qualifier: 1. I would not sub in Szczerbiak because Wallace and Shaq and Z on the same team is too many big guys. 2. I want Szczerbiak's contract because the $13 million expires and gives the Cabs more room to sign Varejao to an extension this summer. But having Wallace and Shaq chewing up nearly $35 million on the cap next season is a nightmare. 3. If Pavlovic is traded, Delonte West coming off a broken wrist and Daniel Gibson being injury prone -- the Cavs do need Szczerbiak in the backcourt. And finally ... Will it work? I don't know. But I'll take the chance if the price is Wallace and Pavlovic. Sounds like Pluto has been reading my posts....lol Same reasons I have said not to move Wally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother. Can't give you his 4th quarter stats, but this shows you how he plays when he starts or sees starter minutes (averaging over 10 when he gets the minutes) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3329/s...MeTZIPzqodZPKB4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had. I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around. I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point. Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil. What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes. 4th Quarter Stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Can't give you his 4th quarter stats, but this shows you how he plays when he starts or sees starter minutes (averaging over 10 when he gets the minutes) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3329/s...MeTZIPzqodZPKB4 Proving my point he shouldn't be in to close the game, he starts cool, but sit him the the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot. The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe. Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point. Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil. What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes. 4th Quarter Stats With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR. And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter and getting a little more than 1 shot more a 4th QTR than Wally or Sasha. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR. So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound. Dude, I see that same stuff from Lebron, Sasha, and Boobie too in those situations too. I actually see it the most from James, not Wally. And you just said a couple of posts ago "Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR. And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR. So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left? Thank you for making my point for me. We don't ask him because he can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Dude, I see that same stuff from Lebron, Sasha, and Boobie too in those situations too. I actually see it the most from James, not Wally. True, man look at Lebron's 3 point & in the 4th, LOL. It's like 24% percent or something. I agree. I do remember a hot Boobie (LOL) last year when the time came down to it. I am just not a fan, don't think he's worth what he getting paid, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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