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New OC again!

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I dont know...but MY memory was there were early rumors(that continued thru the season) to the effect of pettine being a hoyer lover and shanny wanting jff

This is the way i saw it too. Hope shanny makes a trade for jff, so we can get back to football around here.

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my old post on the browns' scheme for manziel is out there to find, but bottom line, any intelligent person with some football background would do better than what shanahan did.

 

That is why the most hated, misunderstood, and disrespected guy in america still has a job with the browns, and the NFL's darling daddy's boys in charge of putting him in a position to succeed are FIRED.

 

if you give manziel a decent sized pocket, with his eyes down field, and some decent routes and reads, he will be very effective. Especially if your OL knows to stay on blocks, and find new ones as the play breaks down... and as long as your OL knows when it's time to get downfield. Even more so if your WR's know how to extend the play and when to start slobberknocking DBs if Manziel crosses the LOS.

we also all know that manziel is the most elusive 'evader' ever, with eyes in the back of his head; but that his pure straight line speed is just slightly better than the average NFL safety or OLB, with an even smaller frame.

finally we also know that he has no better than mid-pack-NFL-starter arm strength and accuracy, but that he can make those throws across the entire field as well as from any body position, and on the move as well -- abilities in which he is almost unique.

Of course the rule is you never throw across your body... but manziel can still work things in there that no one else really can once he acclimates to the league. if trained and used properly, he potentially threatens more of the field for longer, and in more different ways, than any other QB in the league.

it is also obvious that:

at his height, a tight pocket with max protect is likely to result in batted passes (that NEVER happened in college, despite playing SEC defenses that have put 10+ NFL defenders in the league). He needs a little bit of space to work the lanes.

so what does shanahan do? lots of tight pocket with max protect. and guess what? more batted passes in one half than he had in his entire college career.

zone read....my dear god.... with his escapability and improvisational skills, the last thing you want to do is to force him to sit in one spot behind center, read a DE instead of the whole field, give the defense the initiative, and then force him decide to either hand the ball off and get plowed, or keep the ball and get plowed. Zone read does this, allows no creative alternatives available to him, and destroys every advantage he brings.

 

forcing him to run in a bootleg or rollout straight line down the line of scrimmage in this scheme, against guys with equal speed, more size, when at least one of them are spying him anyway, is exactly what he can't do well, and will probably get him hurt.

so what does shanahan do? Lots of zone read and QB sweeps off tackle, or trying to fit through tight gaps inside the tackles. imagine that, he kept getting plowed on those plays.

what else? lots of play action rollouts, where manziel is not allowed to dictate his position, keep his eyes downfield, or threaten the whole field.

with manziel in the shotgun and wide OL spacing, he threatens the entire field for 5-6 second every play, both in the air and on the ground. this is impossible to defend well, even in the NFL.

 

so of course shanahan's favorite play is a rollout play action pass, which means for the first 2 seconds Manziel is not a threat for anything because he's wasting time faking a handoff jogging back from under center, and the next 2 seconds he is being forced into a corner of the field and told not to throw back - thus he threatens less than half the field for 2 seconds or less -- instead of threatening the whole field for 6 seconds or more.

 

but he probably wont get the full 2 seconds, because, 1) the spying LB's job has been made simple by the rollout, so he will force a quick throw, and 2) the WR patterns are such that they only have a split second window to be open or not - and no one has time to make a play.

just brilliant.

 

they did not even slide a hot read route in behind the spying defender for gods sake!

you could not possibly have created a worse situation. no way. it was perfect. perfectly wrong.

and then i wont even get into all the execution problems the team had, as well as their attempted psychological mindgames i guess aimed at beating down manziel in the media.

in every way, the browns did the exact worst thing possible if they wanted manziel at QB.

 

that is why shanahan is fired, and if they get a half ass OC and QB coach next year, the browns may be a real pleasant surprise.

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^^ Johnny?

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Shows a lack of class.

And?

 

I dont know...but MY memory was there were early rumors(that continued thru the season) to the effect of pettine being a hoyer lover and shanny wanting jff

Agree... Young Shanny seemed to me to be in JM's corner from the get-go. Surprises me that now everything is saying he was not.

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that is why shanahan is fired, and if they get a half ass OC and QB coach next year, the browns may be a real pleasant surprise.

All that and the best you can offer at the end is "may"?

 

Holy fuck... it's worse than I thought.

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And? Agree... Young Shanny seemed to me to be in JM's corner from the get-go. Surprises me that now everything is saying he was not.

It's possible he liked Manziel but didn't think he was ready to play, which has shown to be true.

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I just read that if Kyle Shanahan gets the job as head coach in Buffalo he will make a deal to trade a draft pick to take Johnny Manziel with him.

Okay I didn't actually read it I heard it somewhere.

Okay I didn't actually really hear it anywhere, I just made it up.

 

Where do I get an application for beat reporter?

 

WSS

 

Mary Kay Cabot has built a career on that method.

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And here's the list of NFL people that are Manziel fans:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zombo

 

You left Jerrah off the list? He's the best shot the Browns have for a trade deal.

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It's possible he liked Manziel but didn't think he was ready to play, which has shown to be true.

Point taken... I'm guessing Kyle was never Mr. Popular and I think there's a little Pied Piper in our diminutive QB.

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I don't know what embarrass me more? the fact that we are going through a nother offensive system when it was working or that a dumb f*** Browns fan actually likes this turn of events wth Shanahan.

 

 

you let a stranger embarrass you? wtf?

 

well seeing the majority of people around here agree with my point of view...who's the dumbf*** now?

 

btw, as soon as there were 3 HC slots available, you didn't think shanahan was going to try and apply to at least one of them, you dumbfuck? even if he had stayed this coming year, dollars to donuts he'd be gone next. so why not get a guy in here who wants to stay and doesn't want or need the HC gig to make him feel 'whole'?

 

AND kyle's play calling sucked.

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If RoosterDick and BaconHound got a room ...

 

9 months later would we be welcoming "RoosterHound" or "BaconDick"?

 

Zombo

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If RoosterDick and BaconHound got a room ...

 

9 months later would we be welcoming "RoosterHound" or "BaconDick"?

 

Zombo

Great minds!! Lol believe it or not I was going to pose the same question. !! Don't forget the possibility of Hounddick or Roosterbacon. Roosterbacon is lower in fat.

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I like the move. If one of my employees made it clear to everyone that he wasn't happy working for the company, I wouldn't wait until he handed in his letter of resignation. Don't want to be here? Guess what? You're not here. And don't let the door hit you on the way out! Frankly, he was way over-rated and as we say in business, "lose an employee, my task is to find an even better replacement."

  • Upvote 1

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Shanahan has a history of screwing the pooch when it comes to helping QBs develop. Weis or Trestman can get the most out of a QB. That will be helpful to whoever we bring in to compete with Johnny Pop Warner.

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ghoulie, i think you might have to embed the audio file or post it to a host site and then the link.

 

i don't want to have to download your uki styled accordian version of 'whip it' by devo. but i'd gladly play it off the forum.

 

WSS knows how to do it.

 

i thought for a second you were burning the candle on both ends as the last thread you started had a picture of some guy with sardines in his hands with the caption 'we need cheerleaders'.......

 

 

uh???

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I guess Bears QB coach Matt Cavanaugh is a candidate for OC. He worked with Pettine at the Jets...with Sanchez as QB no less, who is going to be available.

 

And his assistant at the Jets was John DeFilippo, who then could be replacing Loggains as QB coach.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_bears_qb_coach_matt_cav.html

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Cavanaugh or Trestman would be good fits, personality wise, I'm not so sure about Weis.

 

Cavanaugh, on a side note for the youngsters, was a big deal when I was growing up back in the 70's, he was the QB of the Pitt team that won the National Championship with Dorsett. He had a long career as a NFL backup too. He was like Don Strock, but without actually playing, he had a great clipboard gig for several teams.

 

73ac_35.JPG

 

And while we are going down memory lane, here is Trestman as our OC in the Bernie days:

 

8035520_f520.jpg

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I guess Bears QB coach Matt Cavanaugh is a candidate for OC. He worked with Pettine at the Jets...with Sanchez as QB no less, who is going to be available.

 

And his assistant at the Jets was John DeFilippo, who then could be replacing Loggains as QB coach.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_bears_qb_coach_matt_cav.html

So Cavanaugh was the guy responsible for Sanchez' soaring success with the Jets?

 

Well good to hear. Hey at least he's Irish.

 

WSS

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I thought Shanny did a good job masking Hoyer's flaws as long as he could, he gave us a chance to be competitive early in the season even though we were starting a backup QB and a bunch of backup WRs.

 

 

 

This^^

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Our best offense came with a dedicated FB infront of one of our RB's. Establishing the run than PA passes over the top. I don't want to see another west coast or read the fag option or whatever here in Cleveland. Play AFC North football.

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If RoosterDick and BaconHound got a room ...

 

9 months later would we be welcoming "RoosterHound" or "BaconDick"?

 

Zombo

Then the proposition to "Eat Me" would not be as distasteful.

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This OC would consistenetly cal draw plays into a 9 man pile up................. resulting in 3d and 6.

I know facts should be optional in a good rant, but we ran maybe 16 draws total all season long.

 

I guess Bears QB coach Matt Cavanaugh is a candidate for OC. He worked with Pettine at the Jets...with Sanchez as QB no less, who is going to be available.

 

And his assistant at the Jets was John DeFilippo, who then could be replacing Loggains as QB coach.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_bears_qb_coach_matt_cav.html

Two things:

1. Damn... Matt Cavanaugh is 58? How can that be?

2. The article (by MKC) includes this line:

"When Pettine took the Browns job last season, he was paired with Shanahan despite never having worked with him."

I do not recall Kyle being forced on Pet, which is what she implies. More faulty memory here or more MKC mischief?

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I know facts should be optional in a good rant, but we ran maybe 16 draws total all season long.

 

 

Two things:

1. Damn... Matt Cavanaugh is 58? How can that be?

2. The article (by MKC) includes this line:

 

 

 

"When Pettine took the Browns job last season, he was paired with Shanahan despite never having worked with him."

I do not recall Kyle being forced on Pet, which is what she implies. More faulty memory here or more MKC mischief?
He was paired with Pettine and they had not been together previously. That's what happens when we interpret the story. Unless she used the words forced on. We take it and run with it.

 

WSS

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"When Pettine took the Browns job last season, he was paired with Shanahan despite never having worked with him."

I do not recall Kyle being forced on Pet, which is what she implies. More faulty memory here or more MKC mischief?

 

 

He was paired with Pettine and they had not been together previously. That's what happens when we interpret the story. Unless she used the words forced on. We take it and run with it.

 

My memory is that Pettine was a very late hire and there were VERY limited pickins in terms of available coaches for his staff.....meaning all the best ones were already under contract.....

 

When Shanahan was selected, there was some discussion that he and Pettine didn't even know each other and may have some philosophical differences....but he was the only viable one at the moment....

 

So....like any other business....you can only hire from the available pool of talent....and then hope you got the right guy....

 

Dont think Shanny was forced on anyone, but do think they "settled" for him....

 

Considering Pettine had to hire a whole staff....and he was a new HC without an existing staff....it only stands to reason he may have to make some changes to get a whole group of coaches who are on the same page and have the same perspectives on how things should go....

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Some shaking out... sure, but Shanny was a prized OC on the rise as I remember it and I did not see any play-calling that did not fit with a conservative, defense-minded HC. Then again, that might be the real rub... Shanny felt too constrained.

 

In any event, thanks... reasonable stuff... especially since it "fingers" MKC and not my memory.

There's an image you'll hate me for...

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