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Student called "Fascist bastard", is threatened to be suspended


calfoxwc

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mz the pussy, it's still happening... liberal harrassment by profs

 

Professor Sued by Student Over Anti-Gay Marriage Speech

 

Student Jonathan Lopez says a professor, John Matteson, called him a "fascist bastard" and refused to let him finish his speech against gay marriage during a public speaking class.

 

A student is suing Los Angeles City College over an incident in which a professor refused to let him finish a speech against gay marriage, according to the Los Angeles Times.

 

Watch VideoA college student has filed a lawsuit saying a public speaking professor berated him in class for making a speech opposing same-sex marriage.

 

Student Jonathan Lopez told the Times that the professor, John Matteson, called him a "fascist bastard" and refused to let him finish his speech during a public speaking class last November, weeks after California voters approved Proposition 8 banning gay marriage.

 

Lopez also said the teacher threatened to have him expelled when he complained to college authorities.

 

"He was expressing his faith during an open-ended assignment, but when the professor disagreed with some minor things he mentioned, the professor shut him down," Hacker said. "Basically, colleges and universities should give Christian students the same rights to free expression as other students."

 

 

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Guest Aloysius

I think I've had more conservative professors than liberal ones, at least in the economics & political philosophy course that I've taken.

 

Don't really get this "conservatives silenced in the classroom" meme. Tupa, did you ever get shot down by a nasty liberal prof?

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Eh....then I would venture to guess you didn't pay close attention to a lot of lectures then.

 

Not the case at all. I was a Psych major and also took all of the pre-med science courses. Politics simply don't come up, unless you have a shitty professor (luckily I went to decent schools). I mean, I guess if you disagreed with science you'd have a bit of a problem, but come on, who goes to college and believes in Creationism anyway? Home schooling is more than adequate for "those" minds.

 

I've had several friends who took religion classes there who said the professor talked about religion as one who was on a mission to debunk every miracle, every account, basically everything. If you argued for the side of religion you were talked down to and usually received low marks on tests and papers.

 

Religion is one of those courses where the profs are going to have a point of view, and the coursework is going to vary from prof to prof. You just have to know that going in.

 

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I've had several friends who took religion classes there who said the professor talked about religion as one who was on a mission to debunk every miracle, every account, basically everything. If you argued for the side of religion you were talked down to and usually received low marks on tests and papers.

How does one go about debunking miracles? Just because a professor doesn't start with the assumption that the biblical account is accurate doesn't mean that he's got an agenda; it means he's an academic with high evidentiary standards.

 

There's a difference between what's done in a church Bible class & a college classroom. Maybe the students who received low marks didn't know that.

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Guest Aloysius
Do you think a student decides to take that class because they've had this longing to see it torn to pieces? Or do you think they take the class because they want a deeper understand of what the New Testament says?

 

True or false is not an issue, and if you think it is then you really have no understanding of what religious studies are.

Well, it's not just true or false, just like "what the New Testament says" isn't really what academic scholars do. You're assuming that the text & its interpretation are static forms, when scholars spend most of their time doing source criticism and trying to understand how the meaning of a certain passage has shifted over time.

 

That can be frustrating to someone who's never been exposed to it; it can even seem like the NT is being "torn to pieces". But if you want simple, uncritical answers, you're not going to get them in an academic setting.

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Well, mz the pussy, you obviously didn't attend Kent State...

 

or you would have known it happens. If you had been a staunch conservative you would :rolleyes:

 

eh... "never mind"...

 

It happens, like I said before, and this is just one recent example

 

It's political harrassment, with the dire possible affects of ruining your GPA,

your schedule of graduation, getting a masters, getting into grad school,

 

or possibly intimidating a student into changing to another line of study to get

away from it.

 

It's wrong. If it were on the conservative prof - liberal student side, the ACLU would be all over

it like bark on a tree.

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I am at Kent State right now, and it is true that there are a lot of liberal leaning professors. But it isn't a re-education camp like you are trying to make it out to be. The most outspoken professor I have had was in a global politics course, which is to be expected. She was never rude, and I even spent time openly debating different economic and foreign policies with her. That same semester I had a US history course where we spent time on Clinton's abuses of power.

 

The professor in the original article obviously was grossly unprofessional and wrong, and I don't think anybody would argue that. But to claim that this is widespread based on an isolated case is absurd. The vast majority of professors are not there to push a political agenda, and are there because they love the field that they are in and want to share their knowledge with others.

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why don't you tell me to my face tough guy. Go xxxx yourself.

 

 

 

Please be careful diehard.

One of these days your going to mouth off to the wrong person and they are going to kick you right in your vagina.

 

You ever have anything constructive to say Duh? All you and your sissy buddy mz the pussy can do is throw little girl insults. Common, act like a man instead of a punk.

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Guest Aloysius
I know you want to prop up what they do as academic studies, but it simply isn't. If you seek to to do a "source criticism" of something you first have to understand the source, and to understand the source you have to study it on it's own terms, not terms you come to it with.

I'm not sure what this means, but I'm pretty sure I disagree with it.

 

What are the Bible's "own terms"? That it's the inerrant word of God? Not sure I need that to understand the Book of Jonah.

 

And if a text is to have "its own terms," wouldn't they stem from the culture from which the texts originated? If that's the case, an academic who's familiar with ancient Mesopotamia, can read Hebrew, Akkadian, etc. would be far better equipped to interpret the text than you or me.

 

But I'm not saying that. Instead, I'm arguing that the text & its meaning fluctuates and evolves over time. On the other hand, you're arguing for a fixed form & meaning of the text, which is precisely what would get someone poor grades in such a course.

 

Which is why I'm having trouble buying your claim that religious studies profs are all anti-religion. When I adopt a minimalistic, contextual position (the meaning depends on who's reading), you respond by saying that I'm ideologically opposed to you because I don't endorse your absolutism. Just because I won't give your reading a privileged position doesn't mean that I'm attacking you; it means that you're claiming much more authority over what ancient Hebrew and Greek texts mean than you deserve.

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........when scholars spend most of their time doing source criticism and trying to understand how the meaning of a certain passage has shifted over time.

 

 

The point is, Al, the meaning HAS NOT changed over time.

 

People like to try and turn the messages of the Bible in a way to conform with THEIR view and wants for the world.

 

There is ultimate and static truth. It can be found in the Bible. Both Testaments.

 

Like the first sentence in Rich Warren's masterpiece, "A Purpose Driven Life' says - IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!

 

 

Academics be damned.

 

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Guest Aloysius
Let's substitute Judaism and Christianity for Taoism or Buddhism, just so we can get rid of this foolish me vs you crap. The study of said religion is not about what we think about it today, it's what they thought of it when the text was written, what was going on when this text was written, who wrote this text, why did he/she write this text?

Does this really help any? If you're introducing the when and they questions, you're opening up a whole new batch of uncertainty. When was the Pentateuch written? When was it compiled? How far back can we trace the J, E, P, and D traditions?

 

And they once again raises the question of interpretive authority.

 

So going to Eastern religions doesn't solve anything; it only obscures the issue.

 

And of course I don't think college professors should mock students' beliefs. But if evaluating the documentary hypothesis is a problem for them, they probably shouldn't be in the class.

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The point is, Al, the meaning HAS NOT changed over time.

 

People like to try and turn the messages of the Bible in a way to conform with THEIR view and wants for the world.

 

There is ultimate and static truth. It can be found in the Bible. Both Testaments.

 

Like the first sentence in Rich Warren's masterpiece, "A Purpose Driven Life' says - IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!

 

 

Academics be damned.

 

The old testament is pretty violent. so you are saying that's the ultimate truth? It does say that Jews should kill anyone who does not practice their own religion.

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Guest Aloysius
It doesn't obscure the issue at all, I wanted to make this discussion less than personal, you were making claims based on my own personal experience claiming that we don't like what we hear because it is different then what we heard in church, thus the switch to eastern religions because that's the crux of it. It's not what I personally believe, its about professors who are doing a huge disgrace to the academic community by using their classroom as a pulpit to teach their own agenda. That's the whole point of this argument. You are making the argument that this doesn't exist, and that any negative comments made about religion are completely valid because they are in the name of "textual criticism" when in fact that's not what at all it's about.

I'm sure it exists, but I obviously don't believe it's as prevalent as you do.

 

And I'm not sure what you think constitutes a negative comment about religion. If, say, a professor were to argue that the claim of a Sinaitic OT text doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny, would that be a negative comment? Or that there isn't any evidence of a historical Jesus - is that a problem for you?

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Actually, one of the problems I have with biblical criticism is that there's such a high knowledge barrier to entry that it can't be properly evaluated by a kid in his first semester of college. But because of that, I don't think you or I should instruct professional scholars what is or isn't worth focusing on.

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I'll get back to you on that one :rolleyes:

 

Exodus

15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

 

 

Leviticus

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

 

24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

 

25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

 

26:7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.[/size]

 

Numbers

 

15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

 

25:6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation

25:7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

25:8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

 

Deuteronomy

2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.

 

4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:

4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

 

4:34 Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors

 

13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

 

13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

 

17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;

17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:

17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

17:7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

 

just a small example

 

 

 

 

 

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slavery, killing interracial couples, killing witches, killing fortune tellers, killing unruly children, killing aldulteres, killing everyone who worships another god, advocating terrorism. all in the old testament.

 

some of these things might have been necessary for survival in ancient times. Not anymore. honestly the whole thing should not be taken literally.

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slavery, killing interracial couples, killing witches, killing fortune tellers, killing unruly children, killing aldulteres, killing everyone who worships another god, advocating terrorism. all in the old testament.

 

some of these things might have been necessary for survival in ancient times. Not anymore. honestly the whole thing should not be taken literally.

 

 

You mean that the 5 books that were "revealed" after spending nearly half a century wandering around a desert aren't going to a little bit aggressive?

 

 

Who wudda thunk it? :rolleyes:

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The second is so completely absurd I won't even validate it. You can believe what you want about Jesus, but to say he didn't exist is absurd, and yes teaching that as fact is what I would consider negative.

 

Sorry, Inspecta, but to say a historical Jesus wouldn't be so absurd.

 

1st century Palestine has a very good written history with many different scribes. You'd think that with some guy going around feeding thousands of people with a couple of loaves of bread would be worthy of writing down. Don't you think it is a bit irresponsible to not write down anything about someone that is turning water in to wine, healing sick people and raising the dead? Then you look at the gospels, and the first one (Mark) wasn't written until 70 ad at the earliest. That is not contemporary.

 

And come on, Jesus was totally a rip off of other deities from other religions. Horus, Dionysus, Krishna, Mithras... especially with Horus it seems someone went through the story and changed all the "Horus" to "Jesus".

 

If you are a Christian, Jesus not being a historical figure shouldn't change anything. It is the virtues that count.

 

 

 

And about the Jew-slaves wandering around in the desert:

 

Why didn't they leave any artifacts behind after wandering around for so long?

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