Stockton Shorts Discusses Brian Hoyer

[Westside Steve]

 

not true.

 

there is a large majority on here that try to get along and know what the boundaries are for each member when posting and replying to each other.

 

stockton doesn't care about getting along or trying to fit in, his agenda is like an ice breaker on lake erie in february, just keep going and break as much up along the way as he can.

Well I don't know mik...

The guy does seem to be a dick head of the first order but let's be honest these threads seemed to go on forever and ever and ever so somebody must be responding the same old way.

WSS

[USFBrown]

I think the piling on against Stockton is pathetic.

 

Takes balls to express an opinion thats different from the cabal.

Its one thing to express a different opinion. Its another to constantly blast it and tell other people how stupid they are for not having the same opinion.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I think the piling on against Stockton is pathetic.

 

Takes balls to express an opinion that’s different from the cabal.

I would say it takes a low IQ to repeatedly say the same stupid opinion over and over. Not so much balls but just an empty head.

[Dste Ace]

Ghoolie pisses a lot of people off with many of his posts but, to me, he simply seems to

enjoy playing the gadfly. Most of his posts seem to be tongue-in-cheek and meant to

rile people up. And yes, over the last 2 or 3 years his win/loss prediction has usually been

right on.

 

Now Stockton, on the other hand...

[Manzier]

Well I don't know mik...

The guy does seem to be a dick head of the first order but let's be honest these threads seemed to go on forever and ever and ever so somebody must be responding the same old way.

WSS

Especially since Stockton hasn't even posted on this thread since page 6 or 7ish. Thats page after page of people talking about Stockton, but no Stockton. Yes, Im guilty too. But Im sure he has accomplished his goal and is enjoying all the attention immensely.

[Unsympathetic]

TL;DR.

 

Stockton said to cut Manziel and give Hoyer a $100M contract, right?

[tml1138]

I think the piling on against Stockton is pathetic.

 

Takes balls to express an opinion that’s different from the cabal.

Hi opinion has been duly noted...the first dozen times.

[The Gipper]

Especially since Stockton hasn't even posted on this thread since page 6 or 7ish. Thats page after page of people talking about Stockton, but no Stockton. Yes, Im guilty too. But Im sure he has accomplished his goal and is enjoying all the attention immensely.

Wikipedia needs help with talk about Stockton

 

http://wikitravel.org/en/Talk:Stockton_(California)

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.

 

I don't think Hoyer is the long-term solution in Cleveland. I don't think that championing a few stats against the worst pass defenses in the NFL is an argument FOR his efficiency. The combination of Mack going down and teams loading up against the Browns' running game (with little fear of Hoyer's arm) is real and is the reason that the Browns are having some real problems sustaining drives. When he lists top QBs and says Hoyer isn't anywhere near them, he's right. When he says that it's very unlikely you can win without that level of player, he's also right.

 

I think that a lot of his lashing out is in response to lousy arguments against what he's saying. He's not sucking Johnny's knob... It's not that kind of argument. I'm impressed with Hoyer's record as the Browns' starter, but am decidedly less infatuated with (let's say) his QB rating against the Bucs. I think if you want to make an argument FOR Hoyer, you look at his overall record without getting too much deeper... Other stats don't come out necessarily in his favor.

 

Here's the thing (if Stockton will indulge me a couple of questions answered), is that I think a leap is being made that I can't make sense of.

 

1) As a Browns fan, would you seriously prefer to see them lose, even though they have a QB you don't believe in?

2) Who gives the team a better chance to win right NOW. Hoyer or Manziel?

3) Why are winning and team-building considered mutually exclusive? What prevents the Browns from going (let's say) 8-8 this year, having another strong draft and another battle for starting quarterback next year and continuing to build on this season's successes?

 

Being lousy hasn't gotten this franchise anywhere for the last 15 years. I'm sorry man, I WANT TO WIN. 8-8 would be a BIG fucking year for this team. And right now, the guy who has the best chance of getting us there is Brian Hoyer. A 7-3 record as a starter is impressive, even if it IS against shitty competition. If nothing else, it's evidence that the Browns are no longer in that shitty grouping; that there are games you can reasonably EXPECT the Browns to win... And that's a positive, man. And Hoyer is a part of that positive.

[Westside Steve]

That was a pretty good post Mr makebelieve.

WSS

[Unsympathetic]

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

If Rodgers sat, Manziel sits.. period. The first 2 yrs [05, 06] after Rodgers was drafted, Favre was just above average with more interceptions than Hoyer.

[D Bone]

Hoyer's last start was without his pro bowl WR, TE and center. Guess that doesn't account for anything huh? "Just plug in their backups and the QB shouldn't miss a beat" is the expectation from some. Would Johnny have done better? We'll never know, because as it stands now, he hasn't shown the coaches anything that makes them believe that he gives the Browns a better chance to win than Brian currently does.

 

If anyone thinks for a second that the coaches won't play who they believe gives the team the best shot to win, hasn't been paying attention this year.......... Ask Tate, Crow and West, they'll tell you.

[miktoxic]

Hoyer's last start was without his pro bowl WR, TE and center. Guess that doesn't account for anything huh? "Just plug in their backups and the QB shouldn't miss a beat" is the expectation from some. Would Johnny have done better? We'll never know, because as it stands now, he hasn't shown the coaches anything that makes them believe that he gives the Browns a better chance to win than Brian currently does.

 

If anyone thinks for a second that the coaches won't play who they believe gives the team the best shot to win, hasn't been paying attention this year.......... Ask Tate, Crow and West, they'll tell you.

^exactly.

 

no one discounts the fact that brian hoyer isn't perfect, that he hasn't shined in some games that all brown's fans should've thought he'd excel in. we've seen many teams in the past that have just folded after a key element on either side of the ball has been out because of injury. wasn't atlanta on a run there for a second years ago and julio went out and they flopped? when gronk was out didn't the patriots with the hall-of-famer brady look like trash? i mean our run game is down to zero and our only legit star wideout was our TE who is now out.........but we continue to win.

 

so why all the bitching?

 

god forbid we lose tomorrow night cuz all the JF fags will be racing in (along with the 1/2 JF fag brown's fans) to say it's time for JOHNNY MANZIEL.

 

throw him in and let him get busted. then you'll all be happy correct?

 

bunch of fucking idiots.

[Tour2ma]

I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.

 

I don't think Hoyer is the long-term solution in Cleveland. I don't think that championing a few stats against the worst pass defenses in the NFL is an argument FOR his efficiency. The combination of Mack going down and teams loading up against the Browns' running game (with little fear of Hoyer's arm) is real and is the reason that the Browns are having some real problems sustaining drives.

 

I think that a lot of his lashing out is in response to lousy arguments against what he's saying. He's not sucking Johnny's knob... It's not that kind of argument. I'm impressed with Hoyer's record as the Browns' starter, but am decidedly less infatuated with (let's say) his QB rating against the Bucs. I think if you want to make an argument FOR Hoyer, you look at his overall record without getting too much deeper... Other stats don't come out necessarily in his favor.

Most here do agree with aspects of StockBoy's argument. I agree with aspects. Hell, during a running battle with Mikey, I posted aspects months before he came along.

 

The basic disagreement, as you get to in the last half of your post, is timing. StockBoy argues the result is inevitable, so make the change now. I and others argue you simply cannot justify that decision now; you have to let it play out.

 

StockBoy lashes out because what matters most to him is that others adopt his position. He is here to be admired, not to debate and discuss. Simply acknowledging his position and agreeing to disagree, is not an option. And so the name-calling ensued...

 

 

One last point, no one has yet posted any data supporting a statement that "teams (are) loading up against the Browns' running game (with little fear of Hoyer's arm)". If you have some, I'd love to see it, because the data I have generated does not show "loading up" is occurring.

[USFBrown]

^exactly.

 

no one discounts the fact that brian hoyer isn't perfect, that he hasn't shined in some games that all brown's fans should've thought he'd excel in. we've seen many teams in the past that have just folded after a key element on either side of the ball has been out because of injury. wasn't atlanta on a run there for a second years ago and julio went out and they flopped? when gronk was out didn't the patriots with the hall-of-famer brady look like trash? i mean our run game is down to zero and our only legit star wideout was our TE who is now out.........but we continue to win.

 

so why all the bitching?

 

god forbid we lose tomorrow night cuz all the JF fags will be racing in (along with the 1/2 JF fag brown's fans) to say it's time for JOHNNY MANZIEL.

 

throw him in and let him get busted. then you'll all be happy correct?

 

bunch of fucking idiots.

Preach it!

[jcam222]

 

Exactly the attitude that is going to ruin the franchise.

 

Browns are a middle team, not good enough for the playoffs. Have played by far the easiest schedule in the NFL this year and are still in last in the division.

 

We'll win on Sunday and people will start doubling down on the "WE'RE 5-3! 5-3!!!!" chants, meanwhile the distance between us and the next easiest NFL schedule will only grow.

 

The absolute worst thing that could happen to the Browns is to hang in the hunt for the 6 seed so long that Manziel gets no playing time. 1) Browns won't make the playoffs, once the back half of the schedule starts next Thursday it'll become pretty obvious and 2) Hoyer isn't the answer, couldn't be more clear and not finding out if Manziel is the answer before this offseason would be a disaster for a building franchise.

 

Jacksonville, Minnesota, Oakland and Tennessee are ALL in better positions for their future because they're learning about what the next 5 years holds right now. The Browns are selling the future to try and make the 6th seed this year. Awful strategy when you don't know who your franchise QB is. Awful that will only come back to hurt the Browns.

 

You want to be on the beach or in the ocean, one or the other. If you're in the surf you'll die. The Browns are hanging out in the surf and the low self esteem of the fans who get a hard on at the prospects of a winning record, even though the team isn't a contender, are the ones drowning the team.

Getting no playing time for a few years really fucked up Aaron Rogers too! Some of your posts are so stupid its painful on the eyes to read,

[jcam222]

I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.

 

I don't think Hoyer is the long-term solution in Cleveland. I don't think that championing a few stats against the worst pass defenses in the NFL is an argument FOR his efficiency. The combination of Mack going down and teams loading up against the Browns' running game (with little fear of Hoyer's arm) is real and is the reason that the Browns are having some real problems sustaining drives. When he lists top QBs and says Hoyer isn't anywhere near them, he's right. When he says that it's very unlikely you can win without that level of player, he's also right.

 

I think that a lot of his lashing out is in response to lousy arguments against what he's saying. He's not sucking Johnny's knob... It's not that kind of argument. I'm impressed with Hoyer's record as the Browns' starter, but am decidedly less infatuated with (let's say) his QB rating against the Bucs. I think if you want to make an argument FOR Hoyer, you look at his overall record without getting too much deeper... Other stats don't come out necessarily in his favor.

 

Here's the thing (if Stockton will indulge me a couple of questions answered), is that I think a leap is being made that I can't make sense of.

 

1) As a Browns fan, would you seriously prefer to see them lose, even though they have a QB you don't believe in?

2) Who gives the team a better chance to win right NOW. Hoyer or Manziel?

3) Why are winning and team-building considered mutually exclusive? What prevents the Browns from going (let's say) 8-8 this year, having another strong draft and another battle for starting quarterback next year and continuing to build on this season's successes?

 

Being lousy hasn't gotten this franchise anywhere for the last 15 years. I'm sorry man, I WANT TO WIN. 8-8 would be a BIG fucking year for this team. And right now, the guy who has the best chance of getting us there is Brian Hoyer. A 7-3 record as a starter is impressive, even if it IS against shitty competition. If nothing else, it's evidence that the Browns are no longer in that shitty grouping; that there are games you can reasonably EXPECT the Browns to win... And that's a positive, man. And Hoyer is a part of that positive.

Number 3) equals winner winner chicken dinner. We need to manage both the short term and long term plan. Hoyer managing the field in the short term is the right decision and its working well. Johnny is getting the chance to develop and that's a good thing. Far to many of these young QB's get rushed into action. Regardless of whether Johnny has played in a game or not you can bet that the staff of experts know if he has a future.

[hoorta]

I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.

 

1) As a Browns fan, would you seriously prefer to see them lose, even though they have a QB you don't believe in?

2) Who gives the team a better chance to win right NOW. Hoyer or Manziel?

3) Why are winning and team-building considered mutually exclusive? What prevents the Browns from going (let's say) 8-8 this year, having another strong draft and another battle for starting quarterback next year and continuing to build on this season's successes?

 

Being lousy hasn't gotten this franchise anywhere for the last 15 years. I'm sorry man, I WANT TO WIN. 8-8 would be a BIG fucking year for this team. And right now, the guy who has the best chance of getting us there is Brian Hoyer. A 7-3 record as a starter is impressive, even if it IS against shitty competition. If nothing else, it's evidence that the Browns are no longer in that shitty grouping; that there are games you can reasonably EXPECT the Browns to win... And that's a positive, man. And Hoyer is a part of that positive.

 

1) As a season ticket holder with a 6+ hour round trip there and back, are you out of your f**cking mind? You think since 1999 after paying my annual tribute, you might think I'm f**cking sick and tired of losing? Like I really enjoy a 3 hour drive back to Dayton after another loss? I said it to Stockton, and I'll say it to you- F**CK Manziel's development.

 

2) That's not too bright- if Pettine and Shanahan thought Manziel gave them the better chance to win, he'd already be starting. Head coaches put the players out there they believe gives them the best chance to win- or they get fired in short order.

 

3) That's what's really f**ked up. Even if the Browns should lose to the Bengals- they're still 5-4. 4 more wins puts them in Playoff discussion, 5 definitely will- the way this season is playing out. Or you forget Gordon comes back the last 6 games of the season?

 

FWIW, today is Hoyer's Super Bowl- beat the Bungles, it's his job to lose the rest of the way out.

[Tour2ma]

Needless to say after our road win against CIN, we are all beginning to see the wisdom in StocktonShorts' words...

 

 

... NOT!

 

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...............

[StocktonShorts]

Bengals made the same mistake all of you are begging the Browns to make, they took a guy with average talent and made him their Franchise
Now they're fucked.

I told my Bengal fan over and over and over "Dalton isn't the guy" and he said "But he wins, he gets us to the playoffs" and everytime I'd say "He doesn't have the talent" he'd repeat Daltons record over and over. 30-18 this past offseason.

Bengals signed him up for 6 years 115 Mil and the very FIRST thing they said was his record. 30-18, two playoff appearances. Sometimes its ugly but he gets wins.


Sound familiar?

Thats why you don't take average talent and make him your Franchise.

"BUT STOCKTON YOU SAID HOYER WOULD LOSE!!!"

I know all of you are going to say it, and this Bengals game had ZERO to do with Brian Hoyer. ZERO. He had an ok game. I saw one pass that was a great pass and a ton of passes that went to WRs with nobody within 5 yards of them.

90% of all Hoyers throws, if he DIDN'T complete it he'd be selling insurance by now.

He's an average talent, and now hes going to be asking big money and if the Browns give it to him (which they wont) thats the end of the Franchise. Kiss everyone goodbye in 3 years as it'll be starting all over, all over again. And now you got them on NFL network talking $100Mil contract??? Is this real life?

You don't take an average QB and make him your Franchise. You don't keep quoting a record and ignore the actual ability. You do that, and you ruin your Franchise.


By the way you can not tell me about any Manziel lovers...they don't exist....they don't exist....meanwhile there are fans CHANTING "BRAIN HOYER" Chanting it. Ignoring the rest of the team, and acting like Hoyer is the CAUSE of these wins and not just the QB that they're working with. 15/23 for 198 Yards and 0 TDs and people are CHANTING his name on the road?! And you wonder why I can't believe you people.

There are FAR more Hoyer zealots who give him far too much credit and zero blame, then there has EVER been Manziel lovers.

You people are in love with his story and ignore the reality of his talent.

If the Browns Front Office are dumb enough to buy into it, just like the Bengals did with Dalton.....Kiss any chance of a Super Bowl goodbye.

[tiamat63]

And goodbye to you, sir.

[miktoxic]

the sociopath just posted another thread.

 

unbelievable. seriously.

[Tour2ma]

lol... I cannot believe I did not see this coming...

 

Dude... you could fuck up a wet dream...

[upper lip]

so stupid... ugh

[Kvoethe]

Im pretty sure any qb who misses 90% of his throws would be selling insurance.

 

Your dumb

 

First Place!!!!!!!!

[miktoxic]

truly, truly unbelievable.

 

a browns board sociopath terrorist.

[TypicalBrowns]

Hoyer was in a zone, didnt need to pass the 2nd half..

[Tour2ma]

After further review...

 

StockBoy is right...

We did not stop Hoyer when we had the chance...

And now it may be too late...

We may just have to continue winning in spite of him...

[upper lip]

and i dont even need to justify why brian hoyer is the man, because its not worth it, but if hoyer was on the bengals he'd have top 5 stats in the league. if you cant watch a game and see hoyer has the intangibles and ability of a legitimate winning quarterback then idk what to tell you. just unbelievable i had to read this when i was excited

[Adoug319]

Sooo..... Are you a Browns fan?

 

 

Would you make a thread like this after a super bowl win with Brian Hoyer under center?