Do juiced-up Steelers teams deserve asterisks?

[plumcrazy73]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9217162...s?&MSNHPHMA

 

Do juiced-up Steelers teams deserve asterisks?

 

by Mark Kriegel

Mark Kriegel is the national columnist for FOXSports.com. He is the author of two New York Times best sellers, Namath: A Biography and Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich, which Sports Illustrated called "the best sports biography of the year."

 

Alex Rodriguez's admission of steroid use has unleashed a new round of debate in yet another fantasy game.

 

Where to put asterisks?

 

Which are the corrupted numbers?

 

Will Rodriguez's eventual tally for hits and home runs warrant the mark of eternal shame?

 

Will Barry Bonds' 762, or 73?

 

How about 354, Roger Clemens' career win total?

 

Or maybe, 6?

 

That's the number I propose for consideration. If it doesn't sound like a baseball number, that's because it isn't. Still, if you want baseball — a game that quantifies itself for posterity — to acknowledge its tainted records, then football should have to do the same, no?

 

I have recently returned from the Super Bowl, which was not merely thrilling, but as you've no doubt been assured, historic. In beating the Arizona Cardinals, the Pittsburgh Steelers became the first NFL franchise to win six Super Bowls. Such success has been attributed to great players, great coaches and — John Facenda's voice, please — to the fair and forward-thinking House of Rooney.

 

But what about steroids? Do the Steelers reach six without steroids?

 

They won four titles in the Seventies. But those teams — the offensive linemen, in particular — had a notorious, and not undeserved, reputation for abusing performance-enhancing drugs.

 

Let's not deign to indulge the standard excuse that steroids were legal back then. Winked at, perhaps. But legal, definitely not. The NFL didn't have a full-blown steroid policy — by which I mean one with required testing and proscribed punishments — until 1989, a full 15 years before major league baseball. But as is the case in baseball, misuse of prescription drugs was always prohibited.

 

As it pertained to illicit performance-enhancing drugs, the NFL of the '70s was not unlike the Major Leagues of the '90s. Juicing may have been accepted in certain precincts of certain locker rooms, but just the same, juicers had good reason to keep their business hidden for fear of stigma and sanction.

 

"They knew what they were doing," said Kim Wood, who from 1975 to 2001 was the strength and conditioning coach for the Steelers divisional rival, the Cincinnati Bengals. "They knew they were cheating."

 

In the case of the old Steelers, the anecdotal evidence is as damning as it is overwhelming. Steve Courson, a Steelers lineman from '78 to '83, issued his well-known confession in a magazine article and later, an autobiography entitled "False Glory: Steelers and Steroids." "To say that anabolic steroids didn't play a role in the Steelers' success would be a falsehood," said Courson, who developed heart problems after his retirement.

 

Then there's Hall of Fame center Mike Webster — dead of heart failure at 50 — who compensated for a lack of natural size by adding artificial size. The brother of linebacker Steve Furness — 49 when his heart gave out — also suspected that steroids played a role in the death. Even a running back like Rocky Bleier admitted to ESPN that steroids were part of his offseason training regimen.

 

A few years ago, Jim Haslett had this to say on the subject of steroids and the NFL: "It started, really, in Pittsburgh. They got an advantage on a lot of football teams. They were so much stronger (in the) '70s, late '70s, early '80s. They're the ones who kind of started it."

 

While Haslett's statement incurred the wrath of some in the Pittsburgh organization, the former linebacker was merely reiterating what so many in the business already thought about those Steeler teams.

 

"The Steelers in the '70s were one of the most influential teams on the game of football, especially the weight training part," says Wood. "It was the success of that team that had to do with the phenomenon being really, really accepted for use by football players."

 

Describing the spread of steroid use from high schools to the NFL, he said: "it wasn't a trickle down. It was a waterfall."

 

Wood qualifies as an old school moralist on the subject. "It's a drug that appeals to insecure men," he says. "The first thing you have to do is fess up to yourself, that you don't have enough of the stuff that makes a man."

 

Was it fair, I asked, for his team to be regularly paired against a juiced-up rival?

 

"How did I feel personally? I was pissed off. It put tremendous pressure on me."

 

He could hear the whispers, why don't our guys get gacked up like the Steelers? Fortunately, he says, he had strong support coming from the top of the organization, especially from owner Paul Brown, that insulated him from that pressure. "I refused to be an enabler for weak people," says Wood, who dismisses my asterisk theory.

 

There is no denying the greatness of those Pittsburgh teams, he says. What's more, it didn't begin with the offensive line. Rather, it began with the defense and players like linebacker Jack Ham, whom he calls a friend. The legacies of guys like Ham and the great defensive back Mel Blount, Wood says, should not be questioned for the misdeeds of the weaklings.

 

But that's not why he considers my proposed asterisk laughable. Wood knows the numbers of premature deaths among those Steeler alums. The South Florida Sun-Sentinel columnist Dave Hyde recently noted that, since 1996, 13 veterans of those championship teams died before the age 60. Of the 13, seven were heart attacks. (Courson, it's worth mentioning, died when a tree fell on him).

 

Performance-enhancing substances do not qualify as a cause on anyone's death certificate. I'm not qualified to make a scientific case. But I know that football players are like professional wrestlers. No one really cares — certainly not enough — that they die young. After all, we don't associate them with any records. We can't represent their careers as statistical sagas.

 

Still, now you wonder what fate awaits the major leagues' first generation of juicers.

 

"That's the real perniciousness here," says Wood. "Guys are talking about the stats being (messed) up?

 

"This isn't a scandal about statistics or asterisk. This is a public health scandal."

[Guest AdaM]

I would prefer if they just rename it back to the NFL Championship Game and take everyones superbowls away

[Furnier]

No doubt in my mind. That "classy" organization has gone out of their way to win by hook or by crook. Since they can't get away with the steroid thing now, they've found a way to get favorable officiating. I expect the expose on that will leak out sometime in the near future. There's a HUGE * next to them.

 

Doug

[Guest ATENEARS]

Yes, they deserve an asterisks. The Pittsburgh Steelers are the Poster Child of Steroids.

 

No one killed more of their own with chemicals until Saddam came along. Rooney should be tried, and held accountable in the deaths and cheating of the sport.

 

What a nasty, nasty, dirty franchise.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

No doubt in my mind. That "classy" organization has gone out of their way to win by hook or by crook. Since they can't get away with the steroid thing now, they've found a way to get favorable officiating. I expect the expose on that will leak out sometime in the near future. There's a HUGE * next to them.

 

Doug

 

 

I see you guys are still Bitter and senseless !!!

As if ALL Of Football wasn't "Juicing" at that time ...Mike Golic just said that the other day. And The Officials ? lol... Again was it Big Ben`s TD Reversal , the Reversed Fumble recovery or the Holding in the End zone that qualifies the "they've found a way to get favorable officiating. "

And dont tell me they were the "Right" calls...that is arguable anyway ... "Conclusive" is the word ! Plus its extremely easy for a ref to Turn away from that Holding call , they do it all the time...IF they wanted Pitt. to win , common sense says they wouldn't be calling back a first down and Giving `Zona a Safety and the Ball inside of 5 minutes again IF they wanted Pittsburgh to win. How ridiculous you guys sound. And dont get all pissed off cuz I responded to this. Its here and You guys are bringing it up ... or shall I get banned again for speaking truth ?

[ClevelandFanForLife]

I see you guys are still Bitter and senseless !!!

As if ALL Of Football wasn't "Juicing" at that time ...Mike Golic just said that the other day. And The Officials ? lol... Again was it Big Ben`s TD Reversal , the Reversed Fumble recovery or the Holding in the End zone that qualifies the "they've found a way to get favorable officiating. "

And dont tell me they were the "Right" calls...that is arguable anyway ... "Conclusive" is the word ! Plus its extremely easy for a ref to Turn away from that Holding call , they do it all the time...IF they wanted Pitt. to win , common sense says they wouldn't be calling back a first down and Giving `Zona a Safety and the Ball inside of 5 minutes again IF they wanted Pittsburgh to win. How ridiculous you guys sound. And dont get all pissed off cuz I responded to this. Its here and You guys are bringing it up ... or shall I get banned again for speaking truth ?

no, but you should get banned for being a lonely loser who has to pass time by going onto a browns fan website and talk trash. move out of your mom's basement.

[Zombo]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9217162...s?&MSNHPHMA

 

"They knew what they were doing," said Kim Wood, who from 1975 to 2001 was the strength and conditioning coach for the Steelers divisional rival, the Cincinnati Bengals. "They knew they were cheating."

Yes, the NFL knew the Steelers were cheating, just like baseball knew Bonds and Mcguire were cheating and they are letting them twist in the wind and suffer horrible, irreversable damage to their reputation as men and competitors, while the Steelers are lifted up and promoted and celebrated for "winning" six Super Bowls.

 

And let's not act like it was just a 70's thing either, James Harrison did not get that good and that big and that fast by eating his Wheaties.

 

Football is going under the steroid microscope next ... and the Steelers will be Bonds, McGuire, A-rod and Clemens rolled into one ... it ain't gonna be pretty.

 

But when you make yourself the Poster Team for cheating ... they will come after you eventually.

 

Zombo

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

o, but you should get banned for being a lonely loser who has to pass time by going onto a browns fan website and talk trash. move out of your mom's basement.

 

 

What ever dude... Hilarious. You calling me a loser. And I stop by here a few minutes now and then... And Talk TRASH ??? I am merely defending the asinine BS being spouted. Why the heck do you guys even talk about this crap , if not to hear from us ? Because you are a lonely Loser who gets your rocks off trying to talk trash about a Solid well respected Franchise. I say trying because you sound like totally Retarded people (in the Football sense) . If the World heard what you guys say , Cleveland would be forever labeled SORE ~ Loserville USA !! By the way I am in Basement , but unlike you Havnt lived with my Mommy in a few decades.'ClevelandFanForLife' Wow ..the name explains the Bitterness. Rich4Eagle is right about some of you guys. sad sad sad... shells of men , Estrogen Rules your posts , get over yourself or get a freaking Testosterone shot ! Girlie man !

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

But when you make yourself the Poster Team for cheating ... they will come after you eventually.

 

Zombo[/b][/color]

 

 

But If you make your self the Poster Child for losing...Nobody give a Damn !! Things that make you go hmmmmm.....I am Done , Talking to you guys is like Trying to Reason with 2 year old Little Girls... Have fun in your little FaNtasia ! No more will you have to read my CRAP... and Yes I know you think its CRAP. But you have Crap for Brains , so.... Things that make you go Hmmmm AGAIN !!

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Good post Freak...............

 

The Pittsburgh Steelers are about all that a sports franchise should be

 

An ownership that sets the rules

 

Management that embellishes the rules

 

Players that are fitting the rules

 

and best a name that embraces the identity of the team and legacy of the city

 

and there you have it going on forty years of constant winning

 

Pittsburgh Steelers the best model for a franchise in all sports the last forty years

 

 

Personally I have so many Friends on the Street that are Browns Fans. I would love to see them get competitive again. The Hater attitude makes me Think...hmmm.... There is NO Common sense in the Posts here regarding the Steelers. S the answer ? BAN Them ... and we can Post Shitty carp in Peace with NO Opposition. That is mental Illness people. Get Help !! They have Drugs !! Be Happy !!! Its just a Game !! Did I come back in here talking Crap Bragging and trashing Cleveland NO... Not until I see Insane attacks that make NO SENSE !! Andf even then ..i only speak TRUTH ! Not BS ... Oh well Adios ! Back to Steeler Nation ...TALK AMONG YOURSELF S ! Fantasia....

[Horse Balls]

Personally I have so many Friends on the Street that are Browns Fans. I would love to see them get competitive again. The Hater attitude makes me Think...hmmm.... There is NO Common sense in the Posts here regarding the Steelers. S the answer ? BAN Them ... and we can Post Shitty carp in Peace with NO Opposition. That is mental Illness people. Get Help !! They have Drugs !! Be Happy !!! Its just a Game !! Did I come back in here talking Crap Bragging and trashing Cleveland NO... Not until I see Insane attacks that make NO SENSE !! Andf even then ..i only speak TRUTH ! Not BS ... Oh well Adios ! Back to Steeler Nation ...TALK AMONG YOURSELF S ! Fantasia....

 

You just posted three times in a row (sign of psychosis) and you said in your second post you were done talking to us (you lied).

 

You make no sense.

 

You scream in all caps.

 

You have let the Browns get in your head again.

 

You and your Bitch Rich are owned.

[Snatch98]

[VaporTrail]

God, you guys are dense. This thread reeks of jealousy. Stop posting about what you think the Steelers should be considered, we all hate them, we all hate their fans, so put a xxxxing sock in it, because I'm looking through this thread for idiots, and the stupidity is coming from Cleveland. You guys are making Freak of Steel look like a genius. This topic is not an issue, it doesn't xxxxing matter, shut the xxxx up.

[VaporTrail]

Geez dude, you sound like you caught one of us in bed with your wife.....

 

 

Roll one up and relax bro....

 

Then act like a Browns fan instead of a whiny little jealous bitch.

[Jibz]

I hate Pittsburgh as much as any Browns fan

but seriously all this talk about Pittsburgh having the refs in their pocket is just embarrassing and reeks of sore loser.

I can't believe that some of you Browns fans really think all the referees have got together and agreed to put their jobs on the lines and cheat so the Pittsburgh can win.

REALLY? They may have got some breaks fall their way but I really don't think you are thinking clearly.

Let it go! Last season is over.

 

[Guest mz.]

Personally I have so many Friends on the Street.

 

That's Pittsburgh for ya.

 

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Every one of you know that every team in the NFL was doing steroids in the seventies. The STEELERS got the reputation because of their success, not because there were more players doing roids than the other teams. There is no doubt that the STEELERS helped to popularize Steroids and the drugs are a serious health issue.

 

But the fact is

 

The Cleveland browns were known for doing STEROIDS in the 60s before the STEELERS of the 70s.

The Cleveland browns have been caught lately using STEROIDS.

 

You just wish that your team had been more successful at it.

 

I suggest you read the book, "Anabolic Steroids In Sport and Exercise."

It will help some of you from seeming so stupid on the subject of Steroids.

 

You can read it here if you like.

 

Anabolic Steroids In Sport and Exercise

[Kosar_For_President]

The Cleveland browns were known for doing STEROIDS in the 60s before the STEELERS of the 70s.

The Cleveland browns have been caught lately using STEROIDS.

 

You just wish that your team had been more successful at it.

 

Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.

[kshutchins]

I suggest you read the book, "Anabolic Steroids In Sport and Exercise."

It will help some of you from seeming so stupid on the subject of Steroids.

 

You can read it here if you like.

 

Anabolic Steroids In Sport and Exercise

 

Well, you can read parts of it there. I would like to see pages 43-59. Do you have the book? Why don't you fill us in?

 

My random thoughts:

 

I would like to point out that the original post in this thread was simply a quoted article by a national columnist.

 

I grew up in a household where my mom, dad and I attended one high school but my brother and sister attended the cross-town rival. We rooted for each other's teams most of the time but there was always the head to head meeting each year. There was good-natured ribbing but by the next day it was all forgotten and "wait 'til next year" became the motto for whoever stood for the losing team. I really dislike the pure meanness that sometimes takes over these discussions because I know how much more amicable the rivalries can be and still be enjoyable.

 

To me, steroids and other performance enhancing drugs take away one thing that belongs in athletics: respect for your opponent. If you defeat an opponent you don't respect, what have you won? In my opinion, nothing. If you win by cheating to obtain an unfair advantage, how can you respect yourself?

 

I've never understood the "he did it too!!!" argument as justification for wrongdoing.

 

Why should you be angry at Browns fans? Why not be angry at the people who cheated? They are the ones who chip away at the foundation of your pride in your team and your community.

 

We're spectators because being a spectator is supposed to be fun. A fair contest is a lot more fun for everyone than an unfair one.

 

 

[Flugel]

If you read False Glory written by one of their starting OTs for 2 Superbowls - he seems to think so. He was disappointed NOBODY fessed up like himself. They had a bunch of A-rods, which made future A-rods so possible . SI has done a couple of stories about them too. I don't see cities throwing parades for their Heroin users but if that won games and trophies - WOULD they? We know Pittsburgh would - but are other cities that bad? I think Canada wanted to send Ben Johnson on a 1 way plane ride to Pittsburgh. He would have started on their football team like alot of other junkies.

 

I get a kick out of the way SOME media makes A-rod sound like the very first cheater/liar they've ever discovered. In the 70s, the team that took the most junk won. If I wanted to follow a corrupt sport like that - I'd follow bodybuilding where the guy ingesting the most toxicity and flammables wins the trophy. Trust me when I tell you the Steelers would have been a MUCH BETTER story if it was just hard work in the weight room from both sides of their lines instead of bigtime shortcuts and crossing moral boundaries of right and wrong. GREED and POWER often superceeds right and wrong in this country though as it does around the world. Wall Street and Enron? Mortgage Companies? You get the picture.

 

I've witnessed an NFL random test in training camp in Tampa Bay. One guy made the team, the other did not. Point is, only 2% of the team was tested. In addition, of the 2% they test, MOST are smart enough to know that the current testing procedures cannot detect HGH so guess what the drug of choice is today? Wasn't it ironic to hear the Steelers' Team Doctor was investigated for excessive quantities of HGH purchased for his clinical practice just 1 year after a 5-7 truned into an 8-0 finish against the toughest part of their schedule? This doctor vanished into thin air. I'm guessing the Rooneys have him retired off in some tropical island where they'll never find him.

 

The year the Steelers started off 5-7, #7 was on the ground grasping his knee like he'd never walk again. 2-3 weeks later, he's running around like Randall Cunningham. You don't go from Bambi's broken wheel to Ben Johnson unless there's Ben Johnson ethics involved. If that's not enough, Ben's forehead grew bigger than Lerch's since draft day. Who's kiddin who? HGH has kept their IR list low. Coincidence? Think about it! Who here thought Joey Pottymouth was clean? And as 1 Steeler fan informed me - there was nothing wrong with steroids. Tell that Greg Loyd's wife and son that were tied up. The son got a pistol to the temple while the wife got a pistol shaft shoved through her teeth. Nice guy! That's the OTHER side of winning at all costs which gets hidden under the rug.

 

I don't mind calling out cheaters IF it's not gonna be so damn selective. There were Senators FIGHTING over Roger Clemons, but WOULD they fight over other cheaters? When we've had knuckleheads like Alzado and Verba on the Browns, they were jerks and their teammates hated them. WE hated them. When Tucker got busted, I said cut his ass. He's either been AWOL or a major distraction. When he was expected to be a team leader, that's a major disappointment. Cheating is cheating. Some will say there's ALWAYS been cheating; BUT I think there's a big difference between getting over-caffeinated and being able to bench press cars if you line up in the trenches. Man wasn't born to strap refridgerators on their back and race each other like all of the Steeler linemen used to do at the NFL's Strongest man competitions. Greg Pruitt was my version of Superman on the gridiron as a kid. If I found out the S on his chest was from steroids, he'd be nothing to me. I LOVE football so I'll always follow it. That said, I'd like to know the RIGHT people are being rewarded.

 

The NFL will never prevent 100% of cheating; BUT it CAN stop the extent of cheating alot more than testing 2% of it's players randomly (with tests looking for the outdated drugs of the 70s - let's get real). The NFL can UPDATE the testing to the thoroughness the Olympics use for NON-professional athletes. HOWEVER, that might be at the expense of taking those wasted dollars on sending millionaires to all expenses paid trips to Hawaii every February. When SI has to do a casket count for former Steeler players that couldn't reach age 50, I think it's worth trying to prevent more of this in the future. Here's the example kids of today are seeing: Superman is getting a needle and syringe in the fanny with something that isn't ethical to give him the strength that is so elusive to others. The message is - if you don't get caught, there isn't anything wrong. Plus, you can make the most money in your sport. A-rod, is an effect of the cause. The blind eye of MLB enabled this to happen. Doesn't excuse him. Football isn't any different if they're gonna cry poor sticking with outdated random testing.

- Tom F. (I ADMIRE hard work but despise cheating. There used to be a clearcut difference but I've been told I'm naive for thinking that way)

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.

 

The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.

 

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Flugel, that last post from you was beyond funny, it was downright ridiculous about the STEELERS of today using Steroids. There are multiple ways to treat injury and play through pain. It's funny that because the STEELERS are successful it must be steroids. Anabolic Steroids would work for an offensive lineman to bulk up, not to make a player faster. Anabolic steroids make your muscles recover faster after lifting, they are not some superdrug that fixes a persons major injury. Cortico steroids are quite a bit different than anabolic. Anabolic steroids make a person bigger, but also make a person slower. That is not a good mix for todays game of football and anyone other than a lineman. Even then, do you want a slow lineman? Wow, maybe that is why the STEELERS O-line was so poor this past year. It does not show why they were so weak and got pushed around so much though.

 

Some of you really need to get off the pity party you are on because of your teams lack of success.

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Well, you can read parts of it there. I would like to see pages 43-59. Do you have the book? Why don't you fill us in?

 

My random thoughts:

 

I would like to point out that the original post in this thread was simply a quoted article by a national columnist.

 

I grew up in a household where my mom, dad and I attended one high school but my brother and sister attended the cross-town rival. We rooted for each other's teams most of the time but there was always the head to head meeting each year. There was good-natured ribbing but by the next day it was all forgotten and "wait 'til next year" became the motto for whoever stood for the losing team. I really dislike the pure meanness that sometimes takes over these discussions because I know how much more amicable the rivalries can be and still be enjoyable.

 

To me, steroids and other performance enhancing drugs take away one thing that belongs in athletics: respect for your opponent. If you defeat an opponent you don't respect, what have you won? In my opinion, nothing. If you win by cheating to obtain an unfair advantage, how can you respect yourself?

 

I've never understood the "he did it too!!!" argument as justification for wrongdoing.

 

Why should you be angry at Browns fans? Why not be angry at the people who cheated? They are the ones who chip away at the foundation of your pride in your team and your community.

 

We're spectators because being a spectator is supposed to be fun. A fair contest is a lot more fun for everyone than an unfair one.

 

I agree with you, using steroids today is cheating. The use of steroids in the 60s and 70s was not cheating at the time, although it did give some of those players a strength advantage. Was that cheating? They paid the price with their health. Every team at that time was using anabolic steroids, not just the STEELERS and it was a couple of offensive linemen that were using them, not the majority of the team. It's not a "he did it too" attitude that is justifying their use. It's just a fact that all teams were using them, they were not illegal or against the rules, the side effects were very unknown. Today players use all kinds of things like hyperbaric chambers, taking their blood out of their body and increasing it's healing effects, among others. Is it illegal? Is it cheating? It certainly gives them an advantage. I am totally against the use of anabolic steroids but looking back thirty or forty years and saying teams were cheating because they took advantage of something they though would help them and was available to every team in the league is rediculous. Holding is cheating, but only if you get caught. Same with any rule. Using steroids today is not only cheating it is stupid.

 

[Kosar_For_President]

The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.

 

You were the one talking history "the Browns took steroids in the 60's". Typically hillbilly, choosing what you want to define as history. Pot meet kettle.

[Flugel]

I agree with you, using steroids today is cheating. The use of steroids in the 60s and 70s was not cheating at the time, although it did give some of those players a strength advantage. Was that cheating?

 

BIG time FOS. I define cheating as someone resorting to methods they need to be highly secretive about (because they know it's ethically wrong) in order to gain an unfair advantage over their opponent. When 5 olinemen are bench pressing between 500 and 615 pounds by alot MORE than just hard work at a day and age when this was unheard of, there's an ENORMOUS advantage gained. If they didn't need it then WHY did they take it? Even moreso, why were they so secretive if there wasn't anything wrong with guys sticking needles in each other's fannies if that was common place with drugs that require prescriptions from doctors? Let's not pretend you could find dianabol or testosterone or winstrol right next to the multiple vitamins in the nutrition stores. You're gonna have to get creative to sell me on this one. This came at a time when our Olympic athletes and those from other countries were complaining about Russia cheating to win with steroids.

 

The FIRST book exposing the casket count and nightmare of this eye popping practice was called Death in the Lockerroom - all about former elite, Olympic athletes dying inexplicably between the ages of 33 and 52. The SI story about all the former Steelers they followed after football looks disappointingly similar. As much as I hate the football team, I don't want to see their players dying and cheating life after football. Nothing worse than reading a 30-45 year old man died because he didn't have the RIGHT people looking out for him.

 

For the person that asks WHY wasn't this against the law back in the 70s if it was so bad. Well, we first needed guinea pigs willing to pioneer the practice here in the States to setup the NEED for such legislation. That was the Steelers and as a result, it's often noted that their advantages gained in the 80s created an enormously uneven playing field slanted toward those using needles and syringes. It would have been a wonderful story if it was just hard work. Pittsburgh was most often cited as the reason the NEXT generations of pro players were using steroids. Pitt didn't get penalized, they got more trophies leading to more endorsements, leading to more money. Now kids are using them. A-rod is about 30 years behind the Steelers but at the same exact mindset so how can you selectively determine Pittsburgh's practices behind closed doors were right and A-rod's were wrong? Steve Courson said guilt led to his book and he was extremely disappointed that MORE of his teammates wouldn't fess up. That sounds like a conscience while the others STILL wanted it kept a secret. If it's NOT cheating FOS why the prolonged secret?

- Tom F.

[Sez.EJ]

Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.

[plumcrazy73]

Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.

 

 

Sez, why do you call me out on this and not everyone else? Not that I care, but just curious. I was just posting what others were thinking, and writing that was not Cleveland writers. You can keep your swamp land.

 

But does it make it right cause everyone else was doing it? And other teams don't have the former players calling it out, plus all the early deaths. Now don't get me wrong maybe others do have the early deaths on par with the Steelers I don't know I only follow the Browns, and because I do follow the Browns, I do keep up with their rivals more then I do other NFL teams. Now here lately I have paid more attention to others but for many years I only followed the Browns and the Browns only and of course the rivals.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Everyone knows that every single Squeeler superbowl win is tainted, either by steroids or fishy officiating.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.

 

Mostly they weren't. As Haslett said, the Squeelers basicalyl started the whole thing. Cheaters.

[kshutchins]

The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.

 

First we had "everybody was doing it" as justification for steroid abuse. Now we have "if it was a long time ago it didn't count." Interesting philosophy you have there.