The Gipper Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Before 2010, Ohio had the worst prescribing habits in the entire country with regards to opioids. We had a HUGE oxycodone problem which resulted in tons of deaths and addiction-related issues. In 2010, new legislation was passed that placed harsh restrictions on prescribers and the drug Oxycontin was reformulated to prevent abuse via IV. Those things, combined with cheaper price and availability of heroin have led to a state-wide heroin epidemic. In 2013, you were at higher risk for a drug overdose if you lived in a "rural" county. Heroin is not only the biggest problem, but it is no longer an inner-city problem, it is a problem for everybody. Research predicts that before the end of 2014, all Ohioans will personally know somebody with a heroin-related problem. Haven't you seen "Justified"? It seems that it is a much bigger problem in rural areas than in cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 If this were Gordons first offense there would be a sh.it storm. Its his what 4th now? Obviously that's a pattern and with 4 "minor" violations the hammer is going to come down. Especially when you consider he was already in hot water and he got flagged again. If I knew I was under a microscope there is absolutely no way I'd even be around people smoking it. I wouldn't be in the same room, hell I wouldnt be in the same building. Its that level of both arrogance and ignorance that is going to get Gordon suspended for 16. Well, I believe that there is a possibility that he may be "let off" on the drug charge, but suspended for the OVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 You yourself may want to do a little more research. Lol... u use marijuana? ... enough said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 God damn, I can't wait, I want to know now! It's like Christmas, in some warped dimension, where you get to find out how shitty your present is going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out. Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case. Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm. If I'm not mistaken cold medicine that has pseudoephedrine in it could come up positive for speed. They new that back in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Marijuana is harmless. If you mis-use anything, it can be dangerous. If you drink too much water you can die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Marijuana is harmless. If you mis-use anything, it can be dangerous. If you drink too much water you can die. Doesn't appear so: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Haven't you seen "Justified"? It seems that it is a much bigger problem in rural areas than in cities. Great show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Okay, here's a puzzler, or a possible indication of the outcome : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 2h Updating earlier post: Roger Goodell will be in Canton, Ohio on Fri. and now will meet with Browns WR Josh Gordon at sometime in next week. If I'm Gordon, and I get suspended tomorrow, WTF would I bother meeting with Goodell next week? I'm torn on this one. I'm starting to think Gordon is gone (even though he shouldn't be from the results), but this indicates he may not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Has anyone heard an update about this being moved? Mary Kay has been all over the place on Twitter (not surprised) and there's no real good information I can see. It sounds like the appeal is being moved but idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Tony Grossi's been moving it around as well. Last I heard, from Schefter was that hearing is still tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out. i know from experience those products that hold everything inside the body so you can temporarily pass the test can attribute to that. it's understood you are supposed to drink tons of water, as much as possible. risk of dilution through over-hydration is more favorable than the alternative>>a small and heavily colored sample. a long duration is ideal--as is a light (but not clear-ish) looking sample--and you always capture the sample from somewhere in the middle of the stream. never the first of ur piss and never the last either. either of the latter can fail you...as can a small sample or even piss you've been holding for a long time. it's kind of a science on both sides it really. without revealing tmi i know someone who isn't me (swim) who passed a ton of UAs over the years using the "mid stream" method. a TON. like close to 50. swim says they don't see the nanogram reading but it's gotta be very very trace amount and they had always smoked sometime somewhat fairly recently prior. they have also passed one doing nothing at all extra regarding water flush or chemicals or anything only a week after engaging in somewhat light smoking. but then again they were thin and toned and younger and really active and everyone is different. or not and maybe they just got it like that. oh, point being that if someone is using one of those products, depending on the amount they had just recently drank and have available to piss out even across a few ounces the results can vary wildly. a small sample or one taken from "beginning" or "end" piss could account for the discrepancy between bottles if it wasn't well mixed or whatever. im curious if thc is heavier or lighter than urine for it to separate and float or sink or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 well i see it reported that goodell is going to take care of aldon smith next week on the 8th, smith got a dui within a mile of a grade school, got caught at an airport with a loaded weapon leading to 3 felony gun charges and making a fake bomb thread (which i thought would be a federal charge). if smith gets less than gordon, there'll be a flippin riot. gordon's case won't be heard by goodell as he will be in canton. i really hope it's not the scrub that was on the air last week trying to justify the league's punishment to ray rice. he got hammered and i'm sure he's looking to come off as a hard ass now. if it's him gordon is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 btw, nice job by the crack investigative reporting team at the plain dealer.... grossi and cabot should have found out by now who is hearing gordon's case and posted their bio someone on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Lol... u use marijuana? ... enough said I do on occasion but my father has been battling stage iv colon cancer and his vape has been an invaluable tool in his recovery process for both pain and his upset stomach. What you are attempting to argue is like attempting to argue that burger king sells big macs. Everyone knows they sell the damn whopper just like EVERYONE knows marijuana blocks pain receptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Doesn't appear so: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm Lol why not link an article that isn't full of a bunch of opinionated bs. I stopped reading the minute I read gateway drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Doesn't appear so: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm I can pull up a similar article on how McDonalds hamburgers are dangerous. Its all in how you use it. If you overuse, or abuse it, of course its dangerous, as is just about anything. If youre smoking 3-4 joints a day, as the article stated, you are literally walking around high all day. Smoking a bowl at night is not so bad. Think in terms of alcohol, if you are drunk all day, you could probably drink a case of beer easy, if you just want a little buzz at night and you drink 5 or 6 before bed, its relatively harmless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Lol why not link an article that isn't full of a bunch of opinionated bs. I stopped reading the minute I read gateway drug. I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can pull up a similar article on how McDonalds hamburgers are dangerous. Its all in how you use it. If you overuse, or abuse it, of course its dangerous, as is just about anything. If youre smoking 3-4 joints a day, as the article stated, you are literally walking around high all day. Smoking a bowl at night is not so bad. Think in terms of alcohol, if you are drunk all day, you could probably drink a case of beer easy, if you just want a little buzz at night and you drink 5 or 6 before bed, its relatively harmless. a 6 pack before bed is harmless? lmao! not disagreeing (but i might) that's just a bold statement is all. how about one? SWIM's Mom has drank one every single night before bed for decades, never miss. never ever even "buzzed", just that one at night and maybe one or two socially on very infrequent occasions...and i'd bed a billion dollars i don't have that she'd sleep like absolute shit if she tried to sleep without one. is she an alcoholic? no but is there a dependency there? im not saying it's an issue or bad, but to me that's kinda different than harmless. back to mj>>joints are fucking dumb and are for getting the room high instead of the people in it. it's like drinking from a lake with your hands or a big waterfall: sure you can get a little in ur mouth, but it's mostly all over ur face and down ur front. or maybe i'm just a greedy pothead fiend. lol don't get me wrong, i'll hit a joint. i just don't roll em much anymore. now i'm throwin brickweed in blunts all day long....but i only see that shit like once every few years now anyway. mj is for "pain management" only. it's not an effective "pain killer" per se. disagree? go snap ur femur and go pull some bong hits. lemme know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 5 or 6 beers before bed? lol, I would be dead in only a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Doesn't appear so: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/bldea050426_4.htm Referencing an article by Bush’s former head of the DEA, who now works with Motorola, is not substantive. The article is purposely flawed, especially in the areas of “gateway drug” and driving under the influence. Its authenticity lies somewhere between Reefer Madness and useful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 i know from experience those products that hold everything inside the body so you can temporarily pass the test can attribute to that. it's understood you are supposed to drink tons of water, as much as possible. risk of dilution through over-hydration is more favorable than the alternative>>a small and heavily colored sample. a long duration is ideal--as is a light (but not clear-ish) looking sample--and you always capture the sample from somewhere in the middle of the stream. never the first of ur piss and never the last either. either of the latter can fail you...as can a small sample or even piss you've been holding for a long time. it's kind of a science on both sides it really. I can tell you this much for sure- I've done a ton of UAs (uninalisys). Looking for dilution is kindergarten. Pure water has a specific gravity of 1.000, If your pee is 1.003, it's damn near pure water. A normal SG is around 1.020. They'll probably say sorry Charlie, you've been super hydrating. I don't know what the testing cutoff would be for too low however. BTW THC is only marginally soluble in water- and it's a lot heavier too. Would it sink to the bottom of your bladder and the high concentration come out first? Don't have any data on that one. :/ Regardless, Gordon is a not too bright doofus for being around the people he's been hanging with. Hmmmmm....... if Goodell is going to meet with Josh next week- there is the possibility he's not going to get suspended- but Roger can tell him, you get your name on a police blotter again, I'm going to suspend you under the Personal Conduct policy- for a LONG time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Referencing an article by Bush’s former head of the DEA, who now works with Motorola, is not substantive. The article is purposely flawed, especially in the areas of “gateway drug” and driving under the influence. Its authenticity lies somewhere between Reefer Madness and useful information. Heres one from the UK. Don't think any evil Bush person works for them? http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/drugs/Pages/Cannabisdangers.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 If this were Gordons first offense there would be a sh.it storm. Its his what 4th now? Obviously that's a pattern and with 4 "minor" violations the hammer is going to come down. Especially when you consider he was already in hot water and he got flagged again. If I knew I was under a microscope there is absolutely no way I'd even be around people smoking it. I wouldn't be in the same room, hell I wouldnt be in the same building. Its that level of both arrogance and ignorance that is going to get Gordon suspended for 16. Here's the deal guy- a little personal info on me- I've done medical laboratory work, and been around that type of instrumentation for a long, long time. I won't argue that if you go by the very strict interpretation of the drug policy, Gordon will get suspended for a year. However- I make my living interpreting laboratory test results. If Gordon had pissed a 100, it would be bye-bye, no question. Here's some stuff his defense team is going to bring up. Things like accuracy, precision, and reproducibility. Notice the NFLPA agreement says the second sample is "limits of detectability"? I don't know what that would be for this particular method, but you can sure as hell bet his lawyer does. That has to be getting mighty close to a (crazy low by Olympic drug standards) positive. Notice the difference between the two tests? That can bring into question the reproducibility, precision, and accuracy- the two samples should have been near identical- within tenths- and they're not. So again, I'm sure Mr Hotshot lawyer has thoroughly researched that sort of stuff. If the precision, reproducibility & accuracy at that level are ± 10% you do the math what 16 - 10% = . Same thinking as a DUI lawyer that gets a 0.81 thrown out on instrument error. Not saying it will happen, but the possibility is there. My hope is the suspension does get tossed. and then Goodell suspends him for a couple of games for hanging out with dopers. Fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can tell you this much for sure- I've done a ton of UAs (uninalisys). Looking for dilution is kindergarten. Pure water has a specific gravity of 1.000, If your pee is 1.003, it's damn near pure water. A normal SG is around 1.020. They'll probably say sorry Charlie, you've been super hydrating. I don't know what the testing cutoff would be for too low however. BTW THC is only marginally soluble in water- and it's a lot heavier too. Would it sink to the bottom of your bladder and the high concentration come out first? Don't have any data on that one. :/ the stuff in your bladder is unaffected by that product. not at all a masking agent it instead somehow sucks everything up and holds it like the thc is temporary locked in the fat cells or something. it's amazing stuff...been around forever. the stuff in your bladder is bad. right when you drink it you have to get rid of whatever urine you have because it wouldn't be able to "capture" the thc already present in the urine in the bladder, only the new stuff still being processed by the body. hoorta what is ur protocol when you have a diluted sample? is there a limit on resubmissions? and do you simply wait for another? and again? and again? diluted negatives beat the hell out of positives any day of the year. eventually ur gonna get one ur satisfied with and as long as it's within that 4-6 hr window and they got the rest right ur gonna get a clean negative sample from them. i kinda feel like super asshole rt now cuz i basically told the web how if u wanna screw somebody u suspect smokes over on a UA, just make them wait a good long while. Roger can tell him, you get your name on a police blotter again, I'm going to suspend you under the Personal Conduct policy- for a LONG time. i don't like him getting a year on such marginal charges--go big or go home. if he can escape these last two, with maybe just a 0-8 game penalty hit for the DWI (even if it gets plead down to reckless)...Goodell should definitely say something like "That's it Josh. No more. None. Not even one. Nothing. Not even 14.9 nanograms. NONE. Capish? ANYTHING at all...speeding ticket over 10 mph I mean anything, and it's gonna be 2 years out of the league with immediate suspension of pay. Period. Have a nice day Sir, take care." would that be enough to wake you up? it actually might have me. if Goodell gives a pass with an enormous next penalty maybe this could be enough for him to better preserve his welfare from negative associations and start realizing the consequences of his actions. first of all if i were him i woulda bought a limo and had a driver a long time ago. this dude needs it more than anyone. not even a limo either--it could be any car. i guarantee there are easily thousands of people willing to sit in even HIS car all day long WITHOUT A/C for probably as little as $100 bux a day cash. just $36500 a year to preserve millions. James Harrison used to spend over 10X that a year on just massages. it's ridiculous that he's had two driving issues in as many months while awaiting his appeal. that's like selling drugs while out on parole. no? not same? how about doing coke while on probation? better? cuz weed lasts too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Things like accuracy, precision, and reproducibility. good point on this ^^. and they are not just different but by a measurable margin. the fact that the "B" is 13.6 ng as opposed to say 14.9 ng seems likely to help better his chances as well. but i have a feeling they will still be biased by the idea he is trying to beat the system. i know i am. and if he is a caregiver for his Mom who has glaucoma and chronically smokes chronic either hire that job out, get her a vape, do SOMETHING else. it's ridiculous to me to even suggest anyway...cuz i for one am failry convinced it wasn't 2nd hand smoke. but that's just me. his boy is obviously a chronic chronic smoker>chron chron>>chron squared>>kron to the 2nd... potheads and non-potheads mix, but they don't hang out daily like those two. seems like a bad influence and around every time something happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I do on occasion but my father has been battling stage iv colon cancer and his vape has been an invaluable tool in his recovery process for both pain and his upset stomach. What you are attempting to argue is like attempting to argue that burger king sells big macs. Everyone knows they sell the damn whopper just like EVERYONE knows marijuana blocks pain receptors. Your dad wants to smoke pot b/c it helps with cancer symptoms... fine. I never said THC doesn't block pain nor did I say it doesn't have any benefits for people in your dad's shoes. I said it has bad side effects, especially long-term use. You want to keep arguing that, I'll keep pointing to the fact that you use marijuana, so I'm assuming you enjoy it, so I'm assuming you have "research bias" that is pro-marijuana. I am unbiased. Talk to me when you've worked with literally 3,000+ drug addicts/abusers, and then tell me marijuana doesn't have side effects. Not to mention, I used marijuana damn-near everyday for 6 years of my life before I straghtened myself out. I think I have an idea of what I'm talking about... And please, don't use your dad's illness to justify your recreational pot use... that's just classless... I wish him all the best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think being around 3,000 + "addicts" would make you biased. Ive smoked weed for 13 years and Ive never once felt ill or shaky when I missed a few days. I smoke it because it relaxes me, and everything is better high. Food, movies, music, sex, and being bored are examples. Ive been around plenty of daily smokers, and I feel confident in saying Ive never met a marijuana addict. The problems with marijuana come in when you mix it, or smoke it all day every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 pot is not addictive, period. side effects? sure. there are side effects from everything done in life. married. divorced. side effect? a bitter old bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Here's the deal guy- a little personal info on me- I've done medical laboratory work, and been around that type of instrumentation for a long, long time. I won't argue that if you go by the very strict interpretation of the drug policy, Gordon will get suspended for a year. However- I make my living interpreting laboratory test results. If Gordon had pissed a 100, it would be bye-bye, no question. Here's some stuff his defense team is going to bring up. Things like accuracy, precision, and reproducibility. Notice the NFLPA agreement says the second sample is "limits of detectability"? I don't know what that would be for this particular method, but you can sure as hell bet his lawyer does. That has to be getting mighty close to a (crazy low by Olympic drug standards) positive. Notice the difference between the two tests? That can bring into question the reproducibility, precision, and accuracy- the two samples should have been near identical- within tenths- and they're not. So again, I'm sure Mr Hotshot lawyer has thoroughly researched that sort of stuff. If the precision, reproducibility & accuracy at that level are ± 10% you do the math what 16 - 10% = . Same thinking as a DUI lawyer that gets a 0.81 thrown out on instrument error. Not saying it will happen, but the possibility is there. My hope is the suspension does get tossed. and then Goodell suspends him for a couple of games for hanging out with dopers. Fair enough? I don't disagree but he's beyond his three strikes and if it were me after my first I'm doing everything in my power to avoid a second. Gordon grabbed a third and then grabbed a fourth whether it was a contact high or not. Gordon shouldn't have been around it at all and because he was it displays were his head isn't and that clearly isn't with a brown helmet on his head. He needs a life evsluation and even as a browns fan I'd want him to grab a 16 game in the hopes of keeping him on the straight and narrow long term. Give him a couple games and it will happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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