The Current Keepers & Needs Defensively

[Flugel]

On Defense, here's my opinion of the peeps we should keeps...

Front 7:

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does)

Louis Leonard (Thanks for the name correction DTBH. He needs to stop jumping offsides though)

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do)

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)

 

D-backs:

Davon Holly (In 07 we didn't have a MORE underrated player. Stays on the hip, uses sidelines well and closes great)

Eric Wright (My first impression said overrated. My remaining impression is my first impression was dumb!)

Brandon McDonald (LOVE this kid regardless of the night he had vrs Denver. Who doesn't use mulligans here?)

Sean Jones (HOPE he's healthy again because he was our defensive MVP the year we went 10-6 IMHO)

Brodney Pool (This kid has shown temporary flashes of excellence between injuries - but we need him to step up)

Mike Adams (THANK YOU for stepping up and filling in admirably at times)

Nick Sorenson (Proved to be nice depth and the reason he's remained in the league is because he's a sick basterd on STs. This former college QB seems pretty good at knwing what to expect and look for)

 

The Hear Me Outs (if they aren't signed or won't be - disregard):

Willie McGinest (If he's on fumes at age 40, he'd certainly make a nice coach the players can relate to with this 3-4)

Antwaan Peek (If he's 100% for a change, he's worth competition value and rotation depth)

Kris Griffin (Not even sure if he's still here but he has tons of experience and is a good STer)

 

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me. There's a place in this league for those kinds of players. It's a place content with being 4-12 - if we're still that place, they'll remain here. If not, we've moved onto higher expectations. I'm sure I forgot a couple people too.

 

Needs:

Impact LBer (IMO, we need a starter and I'm not picky between Rey or Curry)

 

Safety Depth (There should be some mid round gems available)

 

Dline Depth (could we see a curve ball in rd 1 with Raji? Meaning we could also move Rogers around some - especially if Shaun Smith remains distracted and Robaire isn't 100%? If Rogers ever gets hurt - stick a fork in us folks. Look how bad we are the 50% of the time he's on the sidelines getting oxygen. It would be cool to move Shaun next to Wimbley with Raji inside. That's got some matchup intrigue upfront and our LBers would LOVE it!)

 

Corner Depth (I love finding corners mid to late rounds. No need to blow a high pick on this position)

 

Anyway, thanks for reading! I appreciate any suggestions or tweakages people can offer.

 

- Tom F.

[DTBH]

I'm sure you meant Louis Leonard and not Leonard Little. You didn't mention Cousins, and that might be for a good reason. He stinks and if it were up to him he wouldn't get his uniform dirty one bit on Sundays.

 

Shaun Smith has to go. He makes a lot of noise on and off the field, and it overshadows the very little he does well. When I watch him on STO doing that show trying to form coherent sentences when he talks, I have such a hard time believeing that he's an intelligent player. I believe he plays hard, but if he's not doign exactly what he needs to be doing and filling the right gaps, it doesn't matter how hard he plays.

[Sez.EJ]

Just a couple comments. We must upgrade over Robaire Smith.. stricly a journeyman on the DL.. We must get more talent and depth across the board on the DL. You are absolutely right that there is nothing there when Rogers is on the sideline. After him we have 2nd and 3rd tier players. I think we have to get a playmaker on the DL before we get a linebacker. Having better linebackers is useless if the opponents lineman are all over them because we have an ineffective DL. I think we wait on a LB until the middle rounds. but that's just me..

 

My problem with our #5 draft spot is that I don't see the player value at our areas of need (no LB,DL, RB worthy of the #5 pick). I would love to see a trade down to the middle and pick up xtra picks.. Pray Crabtree does not go before we pick and we have a shot at a trade in a big way.... We need help all over the place on Defense. Really.. Is there ANY position that really is excellent with talent and depth? I am not seeing it. We MUST get a real runningback and there are no free agents... This is a bit of a pickle Since Phil managed to trade away our draft picks every year. Sorry guys..but Harrison aint it for the starting RB. He is a 3rd down back.... and can be a good one..but he is not an every down guy. Not in our division. I hate to say that I think we are stuck with Jamal for the upcoming season. I think we are going to see a TON of undrafted RB's in camp.. pray we hit the lotto unless we can trade down out of the 5 spot

[ClevelandFanForLife]

i think that this defense definitely has talent. i hope that they get the personnel this off season and rob ryan gets the most out of them. the most important thing ryan will do though is make a defense that fits these player's needs. if they run a defense that nobody on this team is equipped to run, then it will be another long season.

[Gips]

On Defense, here's my opinion of the peeps we should keeps...

Front 7:

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does)

Leonard Little (Needs to stop jumping offsides though)

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do)

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)

 

D-backs:

Davon Holly (In 07 we didn't have a MORE underrated player. Stays on the hip, uses sidelines well and closes great)

Eric Wright (My first impression said overrated. My remaining impression is my first impression was dumb!)

Brandon McDonald (LOVE this kid regardless of the night he had vrs Denver. Who doesn't use mulligans here?)

Sean Jones (HOPE he's healthy again because he was our defensive MVP the year we went 10-6 IMHO)

Brodney Pool (This kid has shown temporary flashes of excellence between injuries - but we need him to step up)

Mike Adams (THANK YOU for stepping up and filling in admirably at times)

Nick Sorenson (Proved to be nice depth and the reason he's remained in the league is because he's a sick basterd on STs. This former college QB seems pretty good at knwing what to expect and look for)

 

The Hear Me Outs (if they aren't signed or won't be - disregard):

Willie McGinest (If he's on fumes at age 40, he'd certainly make a nice coach the players can relate to with this 3-4)

Antwaan Peek (If he's 100% for a change, he's worth competition value and rotation depth)

Kris Griffin (Not even sure if he's still here but he has tons of experience and is a good STer)

 

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me. There's a place in this league for those kinds of players. It's a place content with being 4-12 - if we're still that place, they'll remain here. If not, we've moved onto higher expectations. I'm sure I forgot a couple people too.

 

Needs:

Impact LBer (IMO, we need a starter and I'm not picky between Rey or Curry)

 

Safety Depth (There should be some mid round gems available)

 

Dline Depth (could we see a curve ball in rd 1 with Raji? Meaning we could also move Rogers around some - especially if Shaun Smith remains distracted and Robaire isn't 100%? If Rogers ever gets hurt - stick a fork in us folks. Look how bad we are the 50% of the time he's on the sidelines getting oxygen. It would be cool to move Shaun next to Wimbley with Raji inside. That's got some matchup intrigue upfront and our LBers would LOVE it!)

 

Corner Depth (I love finding corners mid to late rounds. No need to blow a high pick on this position)

 

Anyway, thanks for reading! I appreciate any suggestions or tweakages people can offer.

 

- Tom F.

 

Thanks for this well done insightful piece flugal well done!

I will now add my 2 cents onto the end hope you dont mind..

 

 

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)Incredible

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)a great player to rotate with rogers

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does) hasnt adjusted well to a 3-4 end im still hopeful and he is tough

Leonard Little (Needs to stop jumping offsides though)backup material

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)mediocre at best bye bye

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)a great prospect

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)jury still out on wimperly

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do) while not the greatest he is the best lb we have

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)with coaching he may be a keeper

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)would love to see him play

 

D-backs:

Davon Holly (In 07 we didn't have a MORE underrated player. Stays on the hip, uses sidelines well and closes great)i love davon cant wait for his return!

Eric Wright (My first impression said overrated. My remaining impression is my first impression was dumb!) i love this guy as well

Brandon McDonald (LOVE this kid regardless of the night he had vrs Denver. Who doesn't use mulligans here?)a great talent he will only get better

Sean Jones (HOPE he's healthy again because he was our defensive MVP the year we went 10-6 IMHO)lacks toughness and speed

Brodney Pool (This kid has shown temporary flashes of excellence between injuries - but we need him to step up)zero durability and toughness

Mike Adams (THANK YOU for stepping up and filling in admirably at times)a keeper as backup/3rd down package/special teams

Nick Sorenson (Proved to be nice depth and the reason he's remained in the league is because he's a sick basterd on STs. This former college QB seems pretty good at knwing what to expect and look for)has heart he is a keeper

 

The Hear Me Outs (if they aren't signed or won't be - disregard):

Willie McGinest (If he's on fumes at age 40, he'd certainly make a nice coach the players can relate to with this 3-4)to old bye bye

Antwaan Peek (If he's 100% for a change, he's worth competition value and rotation depth)injury prone bust 2-3 games a year are no help

Kris Griffin (Not even sure if he's still here but he has tons of experience and is a good STer)

 

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me. There's a place in this league for those kinds of players. It's a place content with being 4-12 - if we're still that place, they'll remain here. If not, we've moved onto higher expectations. I'm sure I forgot a couple people too.

Rubin needs coached davis needs to go...

 

Needs:

Impact LBer (IMO, we need a starter and I'm not picky between Rey or Curry)

I couldnt agree more..

 

As you can see i grade tuffness and durability as part of the talent package a player that is injury prone is little or no help over the course of the season no matter how skilled they are..many of our players lack true grit thats required to go the distance..

 

We didnt count tackling yet another thing the entire defense in general lacks and must improve on...

[Guest Aloysius]

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)injury prone lacks toughness

That's silly. Before his Achilles injury, Smith had only missed one game in the previous six seasons. He may not be able to return 100% from that injury, but it's not because he's soft.

[Gips]

That's silly. Before his Achilles injury, Smith had only missed one game in the previous six seasons. He may not be able to return 100% from that injury, but it's not because he's soft.

Oops your right!

[Flugel]

Thanks for this well done insightful piece flugal well done!

I will now add my 2 cents onto the end hope you dont mind..

 

 

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)Incredible

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)a great player to rotate with rogers

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does) hasnt adjusted well to a 3-4 end im still hopeful and he is tough

Leonard Little (Needs to stop jumping offsides though)backup material

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)mediocre at best bye bye

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)a great prospect

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)jury still out on wimperly

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do) while not the greatest he is the best lb we have

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)with coaching he may be a keeper

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)would love to see him play

 

D-backs:

Davon Holly (In 07 we didn't have a MORE underrated player. Stays on the hip, uses sidelines well and closes great)i love davon cant wait for his return!

Eric Wright (My first impression said overrated. My remaining impression is my first impression was dumb!) i love this guy as well

Brandon McDonald (LOVE this kid regardless of the night he had vrs Denver. Who doesn't use mulligans here?)a great talent he will only get better

Sean Jones (HOPE he's healthy again because he was our defensive MVP the year we went 10-6 IMHO)lacks toughness and speed

Brodney Pool (This kid has shown temporary flashes of excellence between injuries - but we need him to step up)zero durability and toughness

Mike Adams (THANK YOU for stepping up and filling in admirably at times)a keeper as backup/3rd down package/special teams

Nick Sorenson (Proved to be nice depth and the reason he's remained in the league is because he's a sick basterd on STs. This former college QB seems pretty good at knwing what to expect and look for)has heart he is a keeper

 

The Hear Me Outs (if they aren't signed or won't be - disregard):

Willie McGinest (If he's on fumes at age 40, he'd certainly make a nice coach the players can relate to with this 3-4)to old bye bye

Antwaan Peek (If he's 100% for a change, he's worth competition value and rotation depth)injury prone bust 2-3 games a year are no help

Kris Griffin (Not even sure if he's still here but he has tons of experience and is a good STer)

 

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me. There's a place in this league for those kinds of players. It's a place content with being 4-12 - if we're still that place, they'll remain here. If not, we've moved onto higher expectations. I'm sure I forgot a couple people too.

Rubin needs coached davis needs to go...

 

Needs:

Impact LBer (IMO, we need a starter and I'm not picky between Rey or Curry)

I couldnt agree more..

 

As you can see i grade tuffness and durability as part of the talent package a player that is injury prone is little or no help over the course of the season no matter how skilled they are..many of our players lack true grit thats required to go the distance..

 

We didnt count tackling yet another thing the entire defense in general lacks and must improve on...

 

Well done & very insightful Gips! Thank you!

- Tom F.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

That's a great evaluation. I have some disagreements, but nice job. I agree with some above that S. Smith is a dog and Robaire Smith when 100% was a very solid DE. Problem is I would doubt that Smith will make it back from his injury. I'm sure hoping he does because he was very unappreciated by the fans.

 

I think everyone knows who are core players are and I really don't want to express much on some others because I don't think they were coached up or put into the right situations to succeed.

 

IMO needs are great and that's why I am hoping they find a way to obtain more picks. This is a deep draft in positions which we have needs for.

 

Musts - ILB, 3rd corner (we need to resign Holly). Safety (decision needs to be made on Jones and Adams)

 

Needs - DE (especially if their is a question with R. Smith), OLB/pass rusher, OL (Center especially), WR, RB

 

 

[DTBH]

I really don't want to express much on some others because I don't think they were coached up or put into the right situations to succeed.

 

I tend to agree with that. Someone said somewhere (I think it was Aloy) that if Alex Hall gets bigger and Cribbs plays defense, that'll be like adding two players. I think if we're going to be getting a whole roster full a new players, players with renewed discipline, intensity, and better coaching.

[Flugel]

My problem with our #5 draft spot is that I don't see the player value at our areas of need (no LB,DL, RB worthy of the #5 pick). I would love to see a trade down to the middle and pick up xtra picks.. Pray Crabtree does not go before we pick and we have a shot at a trade in a big way.... We need help all over the place on Defense. Really.. Is there ANY position that really is excellent with talent and depth? I am not seeing it. We MUST get a real runningback and there are no free agents... This is a bit of a pickle Since Phil managed to trade away our draft picks every year. Sorry guys..but Harrison aint it for the starting RB. He is a 3rd down back.... and can be a good one..but he is not an every down guy. Not in our division. I hate to say that I think we are stuck with Jamal for the upcoming season. I think we are going to see a TON of undrafted RB's in camp.. pray we hit the lotto unless we can trade down out of the 5 spot

 

Sez,

This might be a GREAT year for a trade down for MORE picks. We're not good enough for just 4 draft picks AND I agree very much about the RB position. While I REALLY like Harrison and want to see more of him, I think he's more of a Leon Washington/Jerrious Norwood type. More specifically, I'd like to see him get about 8-10 touches a game instead of 1-3. Jamal Lewis was ONLY valuable the year he showed up 15-20 pounds lighter. Then he got the raise he wanted, gained the sluggish weight back and lost the giddyup. Time to move on. There's some REALLY intriguing RBs prospects that will be draftable in mid rounds so I'd love to see Kokinos doing some wheeling and dealing.

 

One thing to keep in mind, we were 10-6 without any superstars. Therefore, if we could add an X-factor on our defense and another playmaker or 2 on offense - I like our chances. Part of this is getting some people back healthy again too.

- Tom F.

[Guest Aloysius]

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)

As JD said in another thread, Leon's good if you tell him to do one thing: rush the passer, cover the TE, shoot the gap. But if you send them out there with normal read & react 3-4 ILB responsibilities, he plays tentative and gets moved out of the play by incoming o-lineman.

 

That said, a creative defensive coach should be able to find ways to use him. I remember in the Washington game there was one play where Leon lined up at RILB without an OLB next to him. At the snap, Leon raced to the B gap and was able to stop the ballcarrier at the line of scrimmage. That's the way he should be used.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure the new regime will have much interest in finding ways to use Leon's talents: they didn't draft him, and he's only got one year remaining on him deal. And if their plans are to use him as a conventional 3-4 ILB, I'd prefer Kokinis trade him for a guy buried on another team's depth chart.

[roach]

On Defense, here's my opinion of the peeps we should keeps...

Front 7:

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does)

Louis Leonard (Thanks for the name correction DTBH. He needs to stop jumping offsides though)

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do)

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)

 

 

- Tom F.

 

i like Shaun Rogers.

 

i'd keep Wimbley, Leon, and D'Qwell, but they'd be competing for jobs.

 

i'd keep Shaun Smith around just to bitch slap Quinn if he gets too mouthy in the lockeroom.

 

Robaire should be a Special Teamer, if he returns.

 

The secondary is a mess too. i can't stand watching Safeties that hate to hit. That's Sean Jones. He's got coverage skills, but he is not an impact player. He likes watching the action from 20 yards behind the LOS.

 

Mangini is going to earn his pay with this group. i hope he cleans house.

[Guest Aloysius]

Ahtyba Rubin is a lock for the roster beause he's a NT and played quite well down the stretch. I think there's a better chance of Melila Purcell being active all year than Shaun Smith staying on the squad as the Browns try to get faster on defense.

Rubin's play in the Eagles game was fairly representative of his entire season. On a key 3rd and 1, he got planted on his ass by center Jamaal Jackson (6'4", 330 lbs.). But on a passing play, he was able to push Jackson back about five yards - had there been any kind of pressure from the other d-linemen, McNabb would have been squashed by his center.

 

Rubin's inconsistent, but that's because he's "raw as sushi," as one scouting service put it. That's what one would expect out of a guy who only played two years of Div. I-A football, and that's part of the reason why we were able to get him at the bottom of the 6th Round.

 

But Rubin's got the physical tools to be an effective 3-4 NT, as well as the endurance to play for long stretches (one report from his pro day had scouts amazed that Rubin wasn't even winded after being put through a rigorous workout).

 

So I agree with Shep: Rubin's a lock to make the team next year. If Shaun Smith is retained and moved back inside, I expect there to be an interesting camp battle for the backup NT job.

[Sez.EJ]

Sez,

This might be a GREAT year for a trade down for MORE picks. We're not good enough for just 4 draft picks AND I agree very much about the RB position. While I REALLY like Harrison and want to see more of him, I think he's more of a Leon Washington/Jerrious Norwood type. More specifically, I'd like to see him get about 8-10 touches a game instead of 1-3. Jamal Lewis was ONLY valuable the year he showed up 15-20 pounds lighter. Then he got the raise he wanted, gained the sluggish weight back and lost the giddyup. Time to move on. There's some REALLY intriguing RBs prospects that will be draftable in mid rounds so I'd love to see Kokinos doing some wheeling and dealing.

 

One thing to keep in mind, we were 10-6 without any superstars. Therefore, if we could add an X-factor on our defense and another playmaker or 2 on offense - I like our chances. Part of this is getting some people back healthy again too.

- Tom F.

Thanks flugs.. I agree with you on Harrison.. I am not totally dismissing the guy. I agree he needs the ball more, but too many guys think he can be "THE" guy. I really disagree with that. I really think this is the year to tradedown.. I would like to see a RB in the second round we can really hang our hat on for the future, but with the defensive needs that may not be in the picture this year.. While I hope we can.. I see undrafted flock of RB's in camp the more likely possiblility or a late round flyer for a sleeper... Too bad... But then I was 100% for Adrian Peterson and still stand by that... Sorry I know this is a defensive thread.

[Guest Aloysius]

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me.

Rubin was actually good in the Buffalo game. He was on the field for 13 defensive snaps (10 run plays) and only got pushed back on one of them.

 

On those ten runs, our defense yielded 4.4 yards per carry, which is better than the 4.9 yards per carry they averaged for the game.

 

The problem wasn't Rubin. As it was all season, the problem was our DE's. Corey Williams was injured and ineffective, Shaun Smith sucks at DE, Santonio Thomas isn't strong enough to play the position, and Louis Leonard often plays too high & gets pushed back.

 

Hopefully, Corey Williams will be better once his shoulder's healed. Thomas is a scrub and won't be on the team next year. Leonard will have a battle to make the roster; he played DE in Romeo's fat guy 3-4, but he may not be a good fit if Mangini wants smaller, more athletic DE's. And if Shaun Smith is retained, he'll probably be used exclusively at NT.

 

So Rubin isn't to blame for our bad run defense. From what I can tell, Savage made a good call in drafting this guy. His mistake was trying to fix our problem at DE by bringing in one high-priced guy (Corey Williams) instead of doing what Bill Parcells did: bring in a more affordable combination of FA's (Randy Starks) and rookies (Phillip Merling, Kendall Langford).

[JewDago]

my two cents:

 

i hope robaire smith can still be a useful player, but an old big man coming off surgery is a sketchy bet at best. we need to be looking for a replacement for him and fast. if he's not done this year, he'll be done sometime soon, and big men go from decent to terrible pretty quickly.

 

rubin's an acceptable backup. like alo said, he's still a very raw prospect who was learning on the job last year. however, he's shown himself capable at times, which, if he can consistently do, will make him a more than effective backup if not an eventual starter.

 

shaun smith needs to be relegated to the third string unless rubin shows that he hasn't sufficiently improved in camp. also, he's a terrible 3-4 end. he's just too slow and is far better in the middle, though, if rubin continues improving, there may soon be no need for him to be on the team at all unless we have an injury, which is the reason i say we should keep him around. if rubin or rogers goes down, we have someone who can man the middle acceptably.

 

leon williams, like alo said that i said, can only be good when he doesn't have to think, and that means he's a terrible fit for this scheme. trade him to the eagles for a fifth/sixth or to another team that has a smart linebacker who isn't the most physically skilled.

 

brodney pool blows goats. i'm tired of him not living up to his potential as a speedy FS who can cover center field and either break up passes or pick them off. he's another guy who looks the part but has tinker toys in his head. let him play out his contract if we can't get o.j. atogwe (which is likely because i think the rams will franchise him) or sign the former ram and let pool ride the pine until his contract is up. josh bullocks, yeremiah bell and james butler are all also guys i wouldn't mind seeing replace pool.

 

we need to resign mike adams. he's good as a backup and ST guy, and he did an admirable job filling in last year. if we go with pool and jones as our safeties again, we're sure to need a backup.

 

antwaan peek needs to go. he's costing us more than his production could ever warrant and is in the last year of his contract, so cutting him will do nothing but save us money. he's shown flashes of productivity when healthy, but any time he's on the field is essentially time that alex hall isn't learning how to be an OLB. if we can restructure his deal so he'll cost us less or cut him and bring him back for less money, i'd be in favor of it, but his base salary of 2.95 mil this year is a bit much for a role player who's already hit his ceiling.

 

sorensen needs to be exclusively a ST guy. his blitzes are always mistimed and horribly obvious and he's terrible in coverage. we need a real backup or other starting safety to make sure that sorensen never has to be in on an actual defensive play.

 

we need an ILB, an OLB, a new S, depth at DE, and the 3-4 always needs depth LBs. we only have four picks in this draft and also desperately need a RB, who should be our second round pick, leaving us with picks in 1, 4 and 6 to spend on LBs and depth at DE and LB. if we pick up a safety, he should come via FA, as should pretty much any offensive linemen we add, and maybe even a starting ILB, which would negate taking curry and possibly allow us to trade down and get larry english while picking up extra draft picks.

[ballpeen]

When I look at that list, Shaun Rogers is the only keeper.

 

Not a single one of the others couldn't be upgraded.

 

In all honesty, I don't really care who we cut....just win.

[Sony Reed]

On Defense, here's my opinion of the peeps we should keeps...

Front 7:

Shaun Rogers (Take a bow but get back to work big fella!)

Robaire Smith (What an excellent surprise in 2007 - hope he's heeled to help us)

Corey Williams (handcuffed by cap BUT he played injured they tell me so we'll see how he does)

Louis Leonard (Thanks for the name correction DTBH. He needs to stop jumping offsides though)

Shaun Smith (when he kept his yap closed in 2007 - he played some good ball)

Alex Hall (There's Hall & Oats and there's Haulin Ass - this guy is Hall'n Ass)

Kam Wimbley (If A2 + B2 = C2, then 11 rookie sacks + good coaching = promising future)

D'Qwell Jackson (Mangini likes the kid, I've seen improvement and Shep tells me to give him a chance. Will do)

Leon Williams (I see desire, speed and high intensity which means we have STs and 3rd down packages for him)

Beau Bell (Wouldn't it be nice if this kid is a gem? Meanwhile he doesn't cost us squat)

 

D-backs:

Davon Holly (In 07 we didn't have a MORE underrated player. Stays on the hip, uses sidelines well and closes great)

Eric Wright (My first impression said overrated. My remaining impression is my first impression was dumb!)

Brandon McDonald (LOVE this kid regardless of the night he had vrs Denver. Who doesn't use mulligans here?)

Sean Jones (HOPE he's healthy again because he was our defensive MVP the year we went 10-6 IMHO)

Brodney Pool (This kid has shown temporary flashes of excellence between injuries - but we need him to step up)

Mike Adams (THANK YOU for stepping up and filling in admirably at times)

Nick Sorenson (Proved to be nice depth and the reason he's remained in the league is because he's a sick basterd on STs. This former college QB seems pretty good at knwing what to expect and look for)

 

The Hear Me Outs (if they aren't signed or won't be - disregard):

Willie McGinest (If he's on fumes at age 40, he'd certainly make a nice coach the players can relate to with this 3-4)

Antwaan Peek (If he's 100% for a change, he's worth competition value and rotation depth)

Kris Griffin (Not even sure if he's still here but he has tons of experience and is a good STer)

 

If you didn't see somebody's name like Rubin or Davis - it's because they're good for teams willing the be happy with 4-12 football. If you disagree, re-watch the Buffalo game for either guy and get back to me. There's a place in this league for those kinds of players. It's a place content with being 4-12 - if we're still that place, they'll remain here. If not, we've moved onto higher expectations. I'm sure I forgot a couple people too.

 

Needs:

Impact LBer (IMO, we need a starter and I'm not picky between Rey or Curry)

 

Safety Depth (There should be some mid round gems available)

 

Dline Depth (could we see a curve ball in rd 1 with Raji? Meaning we could also move Rogers around some - especially if Shaun Smith remains distracted and Robaire isn't 100%? If Rogers ever gets hurt - stick a fork in us folks. Look how bad we are the 50% of the time he's on the sidelines getting oxygen. It would be cool to move Shaun next to Wimbley with Raji inside. That's got some matchup intrigue upfront and our LBers would LOVE it!)

 

Corner Depth (I love finding corners mid to late rounds. No need to blow a high pick on this position)

 

Anyway, thanks for reading! I appreciate any suggestions or tweakages people can offer.

 

- Tom F.

 

Flugs, I likje reading your comments, put reading this post you make this defense sound better than it really is

for my 2 cents.

 

Shaun Rogers and D'Qwell Jackson are the only 2 guys on this defense that I would like to see starting and getting regular playing time this season.

 

IMO Eric Wright did not have a very good year and its obvious to me that we need a number 1 corner and Wright and McDonald are not the answer as a #1 CB, McDonald IMO should be a Nickle back ONLY playing a slot receiver and not used on the outside, I really hope the Browns would consider moving Eric Wright to free safety, think Wright could be a star at the free safety position. Holly is a question mark coming off major knee surgery and the remaining DB's don't really excite me.

 

Saftey position needs upgraded, Pool does not have the instincts required to be a free safety, see above where I believe Eric Wright would be a very good FS, Sean Jones wants big money and Jones can't cover so IMO he is a one dimmensional safety who can play in the box to stop the run but is a liability in the passing game, and Adams is a good nickle back and specials team player, but we need to replace both safeties and aquire more depth.

 

LB's, D'Qwell is the best we have and Alex Hall showed flashes early but this guy is not ready to move in as a starter IMO, Leon Williams can go along with Andra Davis and old man McGinest and after 3 seasons I just don't see Wimbley being anything but a guy with one pass rush move whom the league has figured out, I think its time to say in this 3-4 defense that Wimbley is a BUST and lets move on, are we supposed to let another season go by to see if a new coach can turn Wimbley around, I believe we all know the answer and is hoping something changes with Wimbley but thats been a problem with the new Browns sticking with a guy to long when he has showed you he is not the player you thought he was when you drafted him. guys like Kris Griffin is a specials team player and Peek is always injured so we need many new bodies at LB, and the word is Crennell after looking at film on Beau Bell did not think he could play in the NFL, but lets at least put the guy on the field and find out if he can play or not, Crennell did not trust playing young guys

unless he was forced to.

 

We must get more athletic on the DL, we need athletic defensive ends, Crennell's 3-4 using tackles to play DE won't cut it, I also believe though Corey Williams was hurt and it affected his play I would attempt to move Williams to a 4-3 team looking for a tackle, all guys can't adjust to moving inside from tackle and playing end in a 3-4 and I feel Williams is that type of player and also he does not have the speed we need from the DE position and the other guys on the DL are all backups including Robaire Smith who someone mentioned is just journeyman.

 

 

 

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Sony...I get where you are coming from...but I have a different view of what is happening.

 

First and foremost...all players who make a living off of stopping the pass are at the mercy of those players meant to contain the run...and in the 3-4...that is primarily the front 3 and the two ILB's.

 

Hear me out:

 

Our DL was a mess. We have ZERO true DE's on the line. R Smith was our best run stopper...and he was on the IR all season. C Williams has potential (even though he is too big for a traditional 3-4 DE)...but injury to his shoulder and learning a new position have us in a wait and see. Outside of that, we had a bunch of DT's and scrubs playing at DE.

 

The NT in the 3-4 is supposed to occupy the C and one G. S Rogers did that and more. He was a beast.

 

The DE's in the 3-4 are supposed to occupy the OT's (and a G if possible). In order to do that they need to have side to side mobility. Due to the fact we had DT's playing on the outside, our DE's either couldn't get out to the OT (if they lined up inside shoulder) or couldn't help out inside (if they lined up outside shoulder, leaving the NT solo vs 3 players). This basically blew up our entire scheme.

 

When the DE's lined up inside (most of the time) it left the OT's to face our OLB with the help of TE's and RB's...rendering our OLB's pretty much useless as pass rushers. You can't expect the OLB's to win battles against the BEST OL on the opposing team...and still get to the QB. Add into that the vanilla pass rushing schemes and it is a wonder we got ANY sacks out of these guys.

 

When the DE's lined up outside, it left our NT against the C and both G's. This meant that at least one (if not 2) guards were getting to the second level and tying up our ILB's. Therefore the tackles occurring 5 yds deep.

 

These issues were further complicated by not having a dominant player up the middle. While DQ is solid and has good side to side speed, we do not have a thumper type player in the middle to take on those blockers in the second level. We need to replace Davis with somebody with real play making ability. (Can Bell do it? Big question that needs to be answered).

 

As I said...the front 5 have a trickle down effect.

 

Wright and McDonald did an EXCELLENT job...considering the total lack of pressure on QB's. The fact that the Browns were ranked 2nd overall in INT's (23) while being ranked 30th in sacks (17) is simply remarkable. Sure, they got burned a few times...but when you are giving NFL QB's 10 seconds or more to dissect the defense...these things happen...especially to young guys.

 

Also, Pool and Jones were being forced to play so much run support (and both were injured early in the season) that they became hesitant in their games. How can you play consistent pass coverage if you are always having to look to run support...even in obvious passing downs.

 

Basically, I think our main concern is getting at least one (more likely 2) solid DE prospects/players. Hopefully R.Smith will come back and C.Williams will make the transition...but that leaves no depth and zero rotational players. So, DE is a HUGE NEED in my estimation.

 

We also need an IMPACT ILB. That doesn't mean he has to be huge...just a guy who is disruptive and doesn't get out of position often. That is why my first choice is Curry. It also helps that he has the versatility to go OLB if Bell turns out to be a good fit.

 

Lastly, I think that we need to look at S...just in case we loose Jones to FA. He is going to cost a ton to keep....and I am not sure we will go that route. A guy like Chung in round 2 may be a very good fit. He has decent coverage skills and can bring the wood. For those saying he is small (5'11" 207) ...he is about the same size as Troy Polamalu (5'10" 207).

 

Anyway...I think this team is 2-3 solid players away from making a dramatic change on the D.

[Flugel]

Flugs, I likje reading your comments, put reading this post you make this defense sound better than it really is

for my 2 cents.

 

Shaun Rogers and D'Qwell Jackson are the only 2 guys on this defense that I would like to see starting and getting regular playing time this season.

 

IMO Eric Wright did not have a very good year and its obvious to me that we need a number 1 corner and Wright and McDonald are not the answer as a #1 CB, McDonald IMO should be a Nickle back ONLY playing a slot receiver and not used on the outside, I really hope the Browns would consider moving Eric Wright to free safety, think Wright could be a star at the free safety position. Holly is a question mark coming off major knee surgery and the remaining DB's don't really excite me.

 

Thanks for the feedback SONY. I'm prioritizing what we need when I look at the D.

 

When there was a chance Taylor Mays was coming out I had him at #1 for about 1-2 weeks. Now, I'm right back to wanting us taking a LBer with our first pick on defense.

 

As for the secondary and this REALLY matters more than anyone is willing to admit. IF we had a better pass rush, our corners are fine. I was a BIG Davon Holly fan the year before so if he's 100% - I'm very comfortable. Just remember the year we were fresh off of 5-27 football, we put Jamir Miller on the edge and received a Pro Bowl Pass Rush that enabled our defense to lead the AFC in INTs with an extremely average bunch of corners by the names of Corey Fuller, Daylon McCutcheon and rookie Anthony Henry (who's ALWAYS getting burned as a starter). One of our Safeties was plucked off the unemployment line by the name of Devin Bush (to replace Percy Ellsworth) and Earl Little. Again, we LED the conference with that bunch. And the REALITY is that Jamir Miller was actually gearing up to be in a 3 point stance heading into that season. He was a problem-solve when Courtney Brown went down to injury again.

 

Moral of the story - if we add 1 X-factor into the front 7, it's the cause and effect we want. That's what Jamir Miller with 1 hand down was to a 5-27 football team. I know he played standing up the year before 2001 BUT he was the guy Courtney Brown never could become for us from that sic em and sack em spot.

 

Aloy sold me on Curry. It would be nice if we could do with our OLBers what Pitt does with their's. It looks to me like there isn't just 1 SAM between their 2 guys or 1 Elephant. Isn't that why they both had double digit sacks? It was COOL to see Wimbley intercept a pass vrs Buffalo. I'm not writing him off just yet. Like Jamir showed me - the RIGHT role for the guy might be found with a coach with a more open mind.

 

I don't think I made our dline sound like I was extremely comfortable with them. I'm not at all. Nobody was more vocal about the exchange value we got from Williams than me; BUT if he truely played with a seperated/injured shoulder I can cut him a little more slack than I did. Losing Robaire hurt us and Shaun Smith got really inexplicably weird. We need more than just Rogers though.

 

When we only have 4 draft picks - I feel like I HAVE to prioritize what we need most. It's front 7 all the way with me. We also need depth in the secondary so we might look for someone late in the draft or other means. There's free agency for some needs too.

- Tom F.