The 3-4 Diamond

[Flugel]

When I think of the 3-4 defense I think of an imaginery diamond with 4 pointed prongs and 1 inside pillar of support.

 

1.) Top of the diamond - you've got your guy on the apex/nose. If it's soft there, forget going any further. The Steelers have Hampton and we have Rogers. Ironically, they're best friends from the same college. I think Rogers is a little better BUT I'd like a little more endurance from him because we suck the second he heads for the sidelines. In the past, Bob Golic manned this down masterfully for us with Pazzouli spelling him wonderfully. He was actaully a LBer in college while this was the very first year Rogers has played NT in a 3-4. This position is the glue that keeps ILBers from shedding too many 300 pounders. It's your gate to shutting down the inside run. Again, when Rogers goes to the sidelines, the door of the gate falls on the ground. We need better depth there like a Jason Hoke type. Last year's draftee didn't impress me any more than Phil's other draftees on the Nose. His leverage sucked and he looked like a sled ride in the directions Centers wanted to go. We can do better in round 7 most likely.

 

2) Pass Rushing OLBer. Now comes your elephant or LBer to matchup with the best athlete on the opponent's oline manning down LT. Understanding that's often the QB's blind side, it HAS to be the best athlete to protect what's usually the highest investment the opponent has. In the past, we've had Chip Banks as this pass rushing LBer off the edge. As Jack Nicholson would ask "ARE WE CLEAR?" In case we're not, Bill Cowher & Marty Schottenheimer were with our team at the time and GUESS WHAT thought they took to KC and Pitt? I'll help: Derrick Thomas. Cowher extended this to Pittsburgh shortly thereafter with: Kevin Greene, Joey Pottymouth, and James Harrison. AGAIN, that started HERE with Marty coaching up Chip Banks. NOW, I've heard Harrison got cut more than once so he had much LESS of a promising start than Wimbley did right? Wimbley introduced himself to our division with an 11 sack rookie entrance. Add better coaching, a couple more offseason conditioning cycles to an allout hustle attitude that attracted our staff to Wimbley in the first place and why do we throw this Wimbley out for FSU's newer version at the #5 overall? I'd rather go after the next Clay Matthews in round 2 than blowing our #5 overall on a high bust possibility. NONE of Pittsburgh's guys from Woodley to Harrison to Pottymouth were round 1 guys right? I think Greg Lloyd went to an all-girls school like Vasser State or something goofy so you know he wasn't a round 1 guy either.

 

3) ILBer. I adored Mike Johnson, Pepper Johnson, Bam Bam (Dick) Ambrose and at times Candlestick Cousineau seemed to work out okay. Mangini LIKES the frequency Jackson shows up at the end of each play. I'm still making up my mind because I had ultra-high expectations for him as being an X-factor. In the end, good is better than bad and improvement is better than regression so I'll try to keep an open mind. Pittsburgh has put some ILBers in the Pro Bowl like Farrior and Kendrell Bell (both of whom didn't do ski-wat elsewhere, which reminds us exactly how valuable the NT and good coaching is for success therein). Rey could give us an unbelievable presence we haven't had since we Peppered opposing running games on our playoff team from the early 90s. He'd be an ideal compliment to D'Qwell. Jackson can stay hunting ankles while Rey is our designated "jar-the-footballs-loose" hitter. If not Rey, Curry can play this spot and prolly do everythign Rey can with twcie the upside. I think Rey would bring the more sudden impact since he's been in the 3-4 for the duration of learning under Pete Carroll and Ken Norton.

 

4) Non/Occasional Pass Rushing OLBer. Some refer to this as the SAM representing the strongside where the tight end lines up. The BEST I've ever seen this position played here in is by Clay Matthews. Our Pro Bowl OG Joe Dellemalure once said - "Clay might be the quietest and lesser known of the bunch but he's the toughest son of a bitch on our LBer corps." You don't play that position for about 20 years if you're NOT a stud. Your ideal guy should be able to handle dropping back into coverage or shutting down the run to the strong side. I still remember Clay Matthews intercepting Jim Kelly at the Goal line. Pittsburgh has had Greg Lloyd and LeMarr Woodley manning down this spot with enough flexibility to be an ideal pass rusher. So right now, I've covered 4 pieces of the diamond. Our GOOD diamond made us the #1 D in the AFC in the 80s and Pittsburgh barrowing that idea today. We revisited this diamond with our only playoff team in the 90s.

 

5) Back-diamond prong: The Safety. We once had Don Rogers and then Thane Gash justified his name extremly well. Not too much later we had Eric Turner making that early 90s playoff D sound and complete. Pittsburgh had Carnell Lake and more recently Polamolu. Any questions about the value of an Eric Turner, Carnell Lake or Troy Polamolu? There really can't be. Eric Turner once blanketed Ben Coates in our playoff win. Polly ended Baltimore's hopes with an INT for a TD in the biggest game of the AFC season this year.

 

Right now we have the following underway:

1) Rogers. It took us 4 years to come up with this solution so AMEN!!!!

2) Wimbley - remember 11 sacks, great attitude and non-stale coaching arriving. Also remember James Harrison's growth. This may quietly be the least of our evils unless you think Everett Brown is a big enough change. Perhaps MOST importantly is Alex Hall brings us the wing span of a guy who is 6'5" in height. He looked VERY promising at times so here's our competetion for Wimbley without wasting a #5 on the possibility of a big bust. Alex Hall might be the MOST exciting small school physics project we've ever put on the edge. May the best upside WIN this position. I think we still have Peek coming back from his second consecutive General Hospital episode as tertiary insurance to this position.

3) Jackson with Rey or Curry as an excellent sidekick inside. This could get rock solid at warped speed.

4) I can't lie, here's why Curry is my #1 over Rey however slight that may be. He's even closer to being the next Clay Matthews than Clay Matthews Jr if that's freakin possible. Curry looks like he can do anything extremely well and that REALLY excites me. Aloy is the man for getting me pumped about him. It would still be nice to see Willie McGinest return using the same fossil fuels as Willie Nelsen for 1 more run at teaching the younger guys on and off the field here.

5) Sean Jones SHOULD BE much healthier in 2009, he was easily my favorite defensive player in 2007. I don't think people were fair to him when the guy was clearly sucking it up to play at about 50% health and capability for a stretch this year. Bad drafting and offseason yuckage left us little to no alternative so why boo the guy sucking it up for us? Wrong aggression folks. If Taylor Mays was coming out - he would be my #1. "Heaven Can Wait" as they say.

 

Well, if you made it this far - thanks for reading 1 knucklehead's opinion.

- Tom F.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Very good analogy. I believe what Mangini was saying about Jackson is he likes the way he free lances and flows to the ball. He needs to be able to do that more. But, for him to do that you need a very athletic, quick and disciplined SILB to support him. Davis surely was not that. Curry may be a better fit with Jackson then Rey. My opinion only.

 

I do agree tha Taylor Mays might have been my first pick also. He would fall into that catagory of "best player available", but he is also a need. Nothing wrong with Curry or Rey. This staff will have to figure out who the best fit would be. I think most agree that Rey isn't a #5 pick, so you would want to trade down.

 

I liked the way Mangini stated his priorities. "Musts" then "needs" and then basically wants which would be position upgrades and best players available.

 

IMO, ILB is a must. Depending on FA and siging our FAs, Safety could also be a must. Needs are many; OLB, CB, DL, OL,WR and RB.

 

Too much to cover with 4 draft picks and limited money in FA. Time to get busy remaking our roster.

[Gips]

When I think of the 3-4 defense I think of an imaginery diamond with 4 pointed prongs and 1 inside pillar of support.

 

1.) Top of the diamond - you've got your guy on apex/nose. If it's soft there, forget going any further. The Steelers have Hampton and we have Rogers. Ironically, they're best friends from the same college. I think Rogers is a little better BUT I'd like a little more endurance from him because we suck the second he heads for the sidelines. In the past, Bob Golic manned this down masterfully for us with Pazzouli spelling him wonderfully. He was actaully a LBer in college while this was the very first year Rogers has played NT in a 3-4. This position is the glue that keeps ILBers from shedding too many 300 pounders. It's your gate to shutting down the inside run. Again, when Rogers goes to the sidelines, the door of the gate falls on the ground. We need better depth there like a Jason Hoke type. Last year's draftee didn't impress me any more than Phil's other draftees on the Nose. His leverage sucked and he looked like a sled ride in the directions Centers wanted to go. We can do better in round 7 most likely.

 

2) Pass Rushing OLBer. Now comes your elephant or LBer to matchup with the best athlete on the opponent's oline manning down LT. Understanding that's often the QB's blind side, it HAS to be the best athlete to protect what's usually the highest investment the opponent has. In the past, we've had Chip Banks as this pass rushing LBer off the edge. As Jack Nicholson would ask "ARE WE CLEAR?" In case we're not, Bill Cowher & Marty Schottenheimer were with our team at the time and GUESS WHAT thought they took to KC and Pitt? I'll help: Derrick Thomas. Cowher extended this to Pittsburgh shortly thereafter with: Kevin Greene, Joey Pottymouth, and James Harrison. AGAIN, that started HERE with Marty coaching up Chip Banks. NOW, I've heard Harrison got cut more than once so he had much LESS of a promising start was that to Wimbley? Wimbley introduced himself to our division with an 11 sack rookie entrance. Add better coaching, a couple more offseason conditioning cycles to an allout hustle attitude that attracted our staff to Wimbley in the first place and why do we throw this Wimbley out for FSU's newer version at the #5 overall? I'd rather go after the next Clay Matthews in round 2 than blowing our #5 overall on a high bust position. NONE of Pittsburgh's guys from Woodley to Harrison to Pottymouth were round 1 guys right? I think Greg Lloyd went to an all-girls school like Vasser State or something goofy so you know he wasn't a round 1 guy either.

 

3) ILBer. I adored Mike Johnson, Pepper Johnson, Bam Bam (Dick) Ambrose and at times Candlestick Cousineau seemed to work out okay. Mangini LIKES the frequency Jackson shows up at the end of each play. I'm still making up my mind because I had ultra-high expectations for him as being an X-factor. In the end, good is better than bad and improvement is better than regression so I'll try to keep an open mind. Pittsburgh has put some ILBers in the Pro Bowl like Farrior and Kendrell Bell (both of whom didn't do ski-wat elsewhere, which reminds us exactly how valuable the NT and good coaching is for success therein). Rey could give us an unbelievable presence we haven't had since we Peppered opposing running games on our play team from the early 90s. He'd be an ideal compliment to D'Qwell. Jackson can stay hunting ankles while Rey is our designated "jar-the-footballs-loose" hitter. If not Rey, Curry can play this spot and prolly do everythign Rey can with twcie the upside. I think Rey would bring the more sudden impact since he's been in the 3-4 for the duration of learning under Pete Carroll and Ken Norton.

 

4) Non/Occasional Pass Rushing OLBer. Some refer to this as the SAM representing the strongside where the tight end lines up. The BEST I've ever seen this position played here in is by Clay Matthews. Our Pro Bowl OG Joe Dellemalure once said - "Clay might be the quietest and lesser known of the bunch but he's the toughest son of a bitch on our LBer corps." You don't play that position for about 20 years if you're NOT a stud. Your ideal guy should be able to handle dropping back into coverage or shutting down the run to the strong side. I still remember Clay Matthews intercepting Jim Kelly at the Goal line. Pittsburgh has had Greg Lloyd and LeMarr Woodley manning down this spot with enough flexibility to be an ideal pass rusher. So right now, I've covered 4 pieces of the diamond. Our GOOD diamond made us the #1 D in the AFC in the 80s and Pittsburgh barrowing that idea today. We revisited this diamond with our only playoff team in the 90s.

 

5) Back-diamond prong: The Safety. We once had Don Rogers and then Thane Gash justified his name extremly well. Not too much later we had Eric Turner making that early 90s playoff D sound and complete. Pittsburgh had Carnell Lake and more recently Polamolu. Any questions about the value of an Eric Turner, Carnell Lake or Troy Polamolu? There really can't be. Eric Turner once blanketed Ben Coates in our playoff win. Polly ended Baltimore's hopes with an INT for a TD in the biggest game of the AFC season this year.

 

Right now we have the following underway:

1) Rogers. It took us 4 years to come up with this solution so AMEN!!!!

2) Wimbley - remember 11 sacks, great attitude and non-stale coaching arriving. Also remember James Harrison's growth. This may quietly be the least of our evils unless you think Everett Brown is a big enough change. Perhaps MOST importantly is Alex Hall brings us the wing span of a guy who is 6'5" in height. He looked VERY promising at times so here's our competetion for Wimbley without wasting a #5 on the possibility of a big bust. Alex Hall might be the MOST exciting small school physics project we've ever put on the edge. May the best upside WIN this position. I think we still have Peek coming back from his second consecutive General Hospital episode as tertiary insurance to this position.

3) Jackson with Rey or Curry as an excellent sidekick inside. This could get rock solid at warped speed.

4) I can't lie, here's why Curry is my #1 over Rey however slight that may be. He's even closer to being the next Clay Matthews than Clay Matthews Jr if that's freakin possible. Curry looks like he can do anything extremely well and that REALLY excites me. Aloy is the man for getting me pumped about him. It would still be nice to see Willie McGinest return using the same fossil fuels as Willie Nelsen for 1 more run at teaching the younger guys on and off the field here.

5) Sean Jones SHOULD BE much healthier in 2009, he was easily my favorite defensive player in 2007. I don't think people were fair to him when the guy was clearly sucking it up to play at about 50% health and capability for a stretch this year. Bad drafting and offseason yuckage left us little to no alternative so why boo the guy sucking it up for us? Wrong aggression folks. If Taylor Mays was coming out - he would be my #1. "Heaven Can Wait" as they say.

 

Well, if you made it this far - thanks for reading 1 knucklehead's opinion.

- Tom F.

 

This knucklehead made it that far its a nice read!

I like curry a lot and i like rey rey too curry is a little undersized imo but easily makes it up in ballhawking intuition 101..

Unfortunately most of our linebackers lack a certain toughness and the ability to see the play unfold... jackson has good ability but is injury prone,wimbley may be a big bust plus he is injury prone.. peek is another injury prone bust..mcginest is old and also injury prone.. imo pittsburgh one ups us at every linebacker position,we could really use a curry or rey rey and hopefully hall and wimbley will work out...

[YtownBrownsBacker]

This knucklehead made it that far its a nice read!

I like curry a lot and i like rey rey too curry is a little undersized imo but easily makes it up in ballhawking intuition 101..

Unfortunately most of our linebackers lack a certain toughness and the ability to see the play unfold... jackson has good ability but is injury prone,wimbley may be a big bust plus he is injury prone.. peek is another injury prone bust..mcginest is old and also injury prone.. imo pittsburgh one ups us at every linebacker position,we could really use a curry or rey rey and hopefully hall and wimbley will work out...

 

I agree we need some toughness at LB. You say Jackson and Wimbley are injury prone. How did you come to that conclusion? What have they missed? Now, Peek, you are right on.

 

Instead of me labeling Wimbley a bust, I want to reserve judgement until he has a chance to work with a different staff and see how they use him. If this group can't get anything out of him then I will agree.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Great stuff. Wimbley, Jackson, Rogers, and Williams are starting. We have three of the front seven positions up for grabs. Doesn't mean it won't happen internally on one of those... and it probably will.

 

We do have some decent backup DL guys. It would be a great plus if Robaire Smith could get back to 100%. I don't think Hall will be any more then a situational rusher, and I put Peek in that boat if he can stay healthy. I always thought that Leon Williams played well as a edge rusher and WSOLB. He is not really a ILB and hasn't progressed there. Would like to see him get a shot as an WOLB this year.

 

[Guest Aloysius]

I think the problem with moving Williams to OLB is that he's not strong enough to hold contain. You can have him blitz from that spot, but he won't hold up against the run.

[Flugel]

I think the problem with moving Williams to OLB is that he's not strong enough to hold contain. You can have him blitz from that spot, but he won't hold up against the run.

 

Williams couldn't ever keep a starting job at the University of Miami because he made alot of mental errors. Therefore, I think he's more of a special teamer or a part time rotation guy with 1 type of responsibility per anticipated tendency. I LIKE his effort and tenacity and believe if you don't overwhelm him with too much responsibility - he can be an effective role player for us.

- Tom F.