WPB Dawg Fan Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Leigh Bodden WAS our best CB...then suddenly he was shipped off to an even WORSE hell-hole in Detroit. Now the Lions are cutting him. The Lions played pretty much a Tampa Cover II last year...and that didn't fit with Bodden very well. Is it possible...with the Browns playing a bit more man-to-man and other coverages...that Bodden will be able to come back and regain his stature as one of the better young CB's in the league? Even if he can't take over as a starter...wouldn't he be worth a look as depth? He should come relatively cheap...and he is likely to know much of our defense (even with it getting a make over)...so to me he seems to be a likely pick up in the coming weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Just because he WAS doesn't mean he was any good. The last think I want to see is that guy covering someone man to man. I would rather draft someone rather than look to the past for our future. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Leigh Bodden WAS our best CB...then suddenly he was shipped off to an even WORSE hell-hole in Detroit. Now the Lions are cutting him. The Lions played pretty much a Tampa Cover II last year...and that didn't fit with Bodden very well. Is it possible...with the Browns playing a bit more man-to-man and other coverages...that Bodden will be able to come back and regain his stature as one of the better young CB's in the league? Even if he can't take over as a starter...wouldn't he be worth a look as depth? He should come relatively cheap...and he is likely to know much of our defense (even with it getting a make over)...so to me he seems to be a likely pick up in the coming weeks. Problem is Mangini will be playing a lot of cover two zone defenses. He is not a man to man cover guy on defense. Cleveland will play a base cover two zone with most pressure coming from the front 7. BTW, Bodden was traded because he lost a step due to his many injuries and was tenitive in run support. He's, at best, a 4th corner now and Detriot doesn't want to pay a backup or dime back the kind of money he was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 88fingerslewy Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 We need beast linebackers and lineman who can pressure the qb. Our young secondary will continue to get better and we have more pressing needs and Bodden wasnt all that in the first place,I'd pass on him. Totally agree, instead of worrying about the secondary; we should concern ourselves with putting QB's on their back. Tough to throw a pass from the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Depends what he would cost. I have no issue with it as long as the development of the Bmac and Wright continues, but there is no guarantee Holly will be healthy and resigned and he's got to be better than Cousin. Bodden was a pretty solid player who played hurt for two straight years in a number one corner capacity (although he did play a lot of slot in 07). He also was good in run support for the most part. Look, we're not going to draft every piece, so a guy like Bodden instantly gives the secondary depth that is so badly needed. We got torched by Ralph Brown in 06 and Cousin in 08, so bad that a marginal safety in Adams had to play the slot. Picking up a guy like Bodden would keep us from drafting someone like Jenkins and really concentrate on the front seven the way it should be. I see nothing wrong with going after Bodden, not at all. We know what we're getting and also he should know his role if he were to sign here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Problem is Mangini will be playing a lot of cover two zone defenses. He is not a man to man cover guy on defense. Cleveland will play a base cover two zone with most pressure coming from the front 7. god, i hate our defensive scheme. keeping both safeties high sucks because it lets the defense know where they're going to be and having the corners play the flat is, in our case, both a waste of our corner's man to man coverage skills and a stupid gamble looking to pick off short passes that will inevitably fail when we don't generate enough pressure. it makes me sick that we're still playing the wrong version of the 3-4 and that we're compounding it by playing a stupid zone over it. corners can't use their speed if they're covering the flat. at least let them play a deep zone once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 god, i hate our defensive scheme. keeping both safeties high sucks because it lets the defense know where they're going to be and having the corners play the flat is, in our case, both a waste of our corner's man to man coverage skills and a stupid gamble looking to pick off short passes that will inevitably fail when we don't generate enough pressure. it makes me sick that we're still playing the wrong version of the 3-4 and that we're compounding it by playing a stupid zone over it. corners can't use their speed if they're covering the flat. at least let them play a deep zone once in a while. Let me correct what I said, It's more of a zone like Pitts plays then a cover two. He believes in stopping the run and loves to play with a very active, athletic SS. You will see him play the SS in the box on 1st down a lot. He does play some man when he blitzes in 2nd and long or 3rd and long. You'll rarely see him blitz on first down unless they are in the red zone and then it would be a zone blitz. Know, Ryan may ease him out of that bend but don't break zone defense, but don't look for a lot of man coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Bodden will likely want far more than he is worth and with wright and bmac coming into their own bodden would be a backup at best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewDago Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Let me correct what I said, It's more of a zone like Pitts plays then a cover two. He believes in stopping the run and loves to play with a very active, athletic SS. You will see him play the SS in the box on 1st down a lot. He does play some man when he blitzes in 2nd and long or 3rd and long. You'll rarely see him blitz on first down unless they are in the red zone and then it would be a zone blitz. Know, Ryan may ease him out of that bend but don't break zone defense, but don't look for a lot of man coverage. okay, cool. i think the basic scheme you're talking about goes like this: the SS comes down into the box and either plays a zone in the middle of the field or blitzes. the CBs and the FS either play 3 deep across the top or play two deep with one CB staying to either cover the flat on his side or to cover intermediate routes between the flat and the safeties, a bit deeper than the LBs play. depending on what the SS does, one to three of the LBs are available as blitzers and the others drop into zones in the middle of the field. the d-linemen all rush/occupy the o-line. one idea to implement from the cover two, and something the steelers have done because of tomlin, is to have an ILB progressively drop to cover the middle of the field as the safeties split in two deep coverage. it's not an issue if we play three over the top, but the middle of the field is often wide open as the safeties split (larry fitzgerald scored his second TD in the SB on a play like this because the MLB didn't drop deep enough, something DQ won't have a problem with). a good 3-4 is really cool because it combines the pressure that a 4-6 can bring with the unpredictability of the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 okay, cool. i think the basic scheme you're talking about goes like this: the SS comes down into the box and either plays a zone in the middle of the field or blitzes. the CBs and the FS either play 3 deep across the top or play two deep with one CB staying to either cover the flat on his side or to cover intermediate routes between the flat and the safeties, a bit deeper than the LBs play. depending on what the SS does, one to three of the LBs are available as blitzers and the others drop into zones in the middle of the field. the d-linemen all rush/occupy the o-line. one idea to implement from the cover two, and something the steelers have done because of tomlin, is to have an ILB progressively drop to cover the middle of the field as the safeties split in two deep coverage. it's not an issue if we play three over the top, but the middle of the field is often wide open as the safeties split (larry fitzgerald scored his second TD in the SB on a play like this because the MLB didn't drop deep enough, something DQ won't have a problem with). a good 3-4 is really cool because it combines the pressure that a 4-6 can bring with the unpredictability of the 3-4. You're basically describing a disguised Tampa Two. Bodden is a good player, he can fit in any system we run. I'm just saying if he is willing to not break the bank he is a viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 You're basically describing a disguised Tampa Two. Bodden is a good player, he can fit in any system we run. I'm just saying if he is willing to not break the bank he is a viable solution. He may not be the Bodden that started here but would be a decent backup or nickle back. He has definately lost a step and his injuries have caught up to him. I think the reason he got cut from the Lions was more about the size of his contract then his ability to still play at a respectable level. I think it all depends on how much he wants. He could bring experience but I don't think he still has the ability due to injuries to be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Honestly...I was thinking of him more as our slot cover...not as a starting CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Honestly...I was thinking of him more as our slot cover...not as a starting CB. I thought that was a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Honestly...I was thinking of him more as our slot cover...not as a starting CB. That would be the only thing IMO......but I am not too concerned...we won't sign him. This group if anything is going to look young...they aren't going to start bringing back players on their last leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 we laready have our 3 CB's set in e wright, bmac, and daven. All Bodden would do is provide depth. I agree that we cant look from our past for the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiperBowl Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Honestly...I was thinking of him more as our slot cover...not as a starting CB. thats how detroit ended up useing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Leigh Bodden WAS our best CB...then suddenly he was shipped off to an even WORSE hell-hole in Detroit. Now the Lions are cutting him. The Lions played pretty much a Tampa Cover II last year...and that didn't fit with Bodden very well. Is it possible...with the Browns playing a bit more man-to-man and other coverages...that Bodden will be able to come back and regain his stature as one of the better young CB's in the league? Even if he can't take over as a starter...wouldn't he be worth a look as depth? He should come relatively cheap...and he is likely to know much of our defense (even with it getting a make over)...so to me he seems to be a likely pick up in the coming weeks. Bodden can play.............in a system dedicate to winning and using skill players wisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumcrazy73 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I would bring him in if he was realistic on what he wants, if he wants more then is realistic then no thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Bodden can play.............in a system dedicate to winning and using skill players wisely I disagree Rich.....I am 260 lbs and can cover as well as that guy. Tell me the difference between getting punked by 4 yards like he would and getting punked by 20 yards like I would, other than I would do it for a lot less money? Bodden isn't a good CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 god, i hate our defensive scheme. keeping both safeties high sucks because it lets the defense know where they're going to be and having the corners play the flat is, in our case, both a waste of our corner's man to man coverage skills and a stupid gamble looking to pick off short passes that will inevitably fail when we don't generate enough pressure. it makes me sick that we're still playing the wrong version of the 3-4 and that we're compounding it by playing a stupid zone over it. corners can't use their speed if they're covering the flat. at least let them play a deep zone once in a while. Better get used to seeing the same basic defense! I think Mangini may have learned a lesson from last year though. You need those fast linebackers in his defense. Something that got exposed in the second half of the year in 2008 with the Jets. This is why he'll pick Curry if he's there, and why he'll be going out of his way to shoring up the Linebacking spots.. I think he has to for this 3-4 to have a shot in hell at being successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 we laready have our 3 CB's set in e wright, bmac, and daven. All Bodden would do is provide depth. I agree that we cant look from our past for the future Holly is a UFA. Just because we want him doesn't make it so. FA is a two way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I disagree Rich.....I am 260 lbs and can cover as well as that guy. Tell me the difference between getting punked by 4 yards like he would and getting punked by 20 yards like I would, other than I would do it for a lot less money? Bodden isn't a good CB. Isn't, or was? Have those injuries truly cost him a step? He's got to be better than some of our stiffs that were 4th on the depth chart like Terry (I can't cover my Cousins' sister?)- question is will he work at vet minimum, or near to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I disagree Rich.....I am 260 lbs and can cover as well as that guy. Tell me the difference between getting punked by 4 yards like he would and getting punked by 20 yards like I would, other than I would do it for a lot less money? Bodden isn't a good CB. We agree to disagree. I have not seen anything on our roster who is better. And like X said he was convering number one receivers when he was here. Personally, i would consider making him a free safety using his ball hawking skills. The best db's here in the last five years have been Bodden and Henry both dumped! We need to focus the draft of Offense, defense next year. So Bodden could be a nice FA grab. I am a 109lb weakling and I can hit harder than Andra Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 this article about Bodden may shed some light on the subject: Leigh Bodden headed out; the Lions are to blame by Tom Kowalski | Opinion Wednesday February 04, 2009, 5:30 PM AP File PhotoDetroit Lions cornerback Leigh Bodden was acquired in the trade that sent Shaun Rogers to the Cleveland Browns. There are going to be a lot of reasons given as to why the Detroit Lions informed cornerback Leigh Bodden that he won't be back with the team next year, as reported by The Detroit News today. There will be the roster bonus (which was huge), his performance (which was mediocre) and his postseason comments (which were the final nail in the coffin). All of these are legitimate reasons why Bodden won't return, but the real blame for this failure belongs squarely on the shoulders of the Lions. Bodden was acquired in the trade that sent Shaun Rogers to the Cleveland Browns and it appeared to be a great deal at the time. In addition to a draft pick, the Lions were beefing up their thin secondary with an up-and-coming player such as Bodden. Former coach Rod Marinelli and defensive coordinator Joe Barry, though, completely mishandled the situation. Bodden is a brash and confident young player who thrives on success, but the Lions messed with his head from the very beginning. Marinelli's custom of having new players "earn'' starting positions was ridiculous -- and that's been pointed out many times in this blog. It was especially foolish in the case of Bodden, who was a three-year starter with the Browns and had six interceptions the previous season. Still, Bodden was delegated as a No. 2 cornerback behind Travis Fisher for the entire training camp and preseason. It was embarrassing to Bodden. The Lions plunged the dagger in even deeper when they made Fisher the starter for the season opener in Atlanta. Bodden quickly entered the game when Fisher gave up some big plays, but the damage was done. During the season, the Lions -- after making an even bigger mistake by signing Brian Kelly -- switched Bodden over to Kelly's spot on the left side of the defense. It's a move that Bodden resisted, but the Lions didn't want to hear about it. Now, you can't have players running the locker room and while the coaches have to be the ultimate authority, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with young players and their egos. There never was a discussion with Bodden about why or any attempt to appease his feelings. Bodden didn't feel as comfortable on the left side but the Lions didn't care. Bodden came into Detroit with a lot of promise and he was treated like a second-class citizen every step of the way and his performance reflected it. Bodden is due an $8.6 million roster bonus on Feb. 27 and that's one of the reasons he will be cut loose. The Lions can't officially make the move until Monday. The biggest reason for Bodden's departure, though, is because he's damaged goods. He was a player who might have been able to help turn the team around but he was so disgusted that after the team ended its 0-16 season, Bodden said this about his future: "I want to play football. I don't care where I'm at.'' Sounds to me he is healthy and ready to go...and that the Lions pulled a move typical of the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Bodden was always injured. I use to like the kid, but I think some of you are forgetting how often this guy was on the injury list. I think we need to look at CB's for their tackling skills and toughness as much as their cover skills. Coverage is more about scheme, tackling of the individual. Find me the next Antonio Winfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Bodden was always injured. I use to like the kid, but I think some of you are forgetting how often this guy was on the injury list. I think we need to look at CB's for their tackling skills and toughness as much as their cover skills. Coverage is more about scheme, tackling of the individual. Find me the next Antonio Winfield. Me, nor anybody is going to find you the next Winfield, it's not possible. Dude is one of a kind and one of the greatest tacklers in the history of the game. I think some of you are forgetting that we're not talking about Bodden being the number one guy and playing every snap. More like giving us that good veteran that we have so lacked the last three years to stabilize the secondary and mentor the kids. We all heard how much of a coach on the field Cousin was but the guy made Ralph Brown look like Minniefield. Bodden was also pretty solid playing the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted February 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 The key to a good defense is the ability to ROTATE players to keep them fresh. We have ZERO players that I feel comfortable rotating in at the CB/S positions. I agree that Bodden is likely not going to be coming in here and being a shut down CB...but then again we are mainly playing zone schemes anyway..so we don't need that. What we need is a third CB (and Holley is a FA as well as coming off an injury) that we can rely on to rotate in. Bodden could be that guy. He could also be the slot guy in nickle packages...freeing up Adams to be the rotate guy for the S position. Basically, he is giving us depth in 2 positions with one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Adams played great in Sean Jones absence early on last season. I can't figure out what the hell happened after Jones came back though ... we were horrible as the season progressed. We should have never rushed Jones back, he was down-right bad (Percy Ellsworth bad). I think Adams ended up getting banged up too. Cousins was a chaser and completely out of position. Mel Tucker just shit the bed last season with how badly that group played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 The key to a good defense is the ability to ROTATE players to keep them fresh. We have ZERO players that I feel comfortable rotating in at the CB/S positions. I agree that Bodden is likely not going to be coming in here and being a shut down CB...but then again we are mainly playing zone schemes anyway..so we don't need that. What we need is a third CB (and Holley is a FA as well as coming off an injury) that we can rely on to rotate in. Bodden could be that guy. He could also be the slot guy in nickle packages...freeing up Adams to be the rotate guy for the S position. Basically, he is giving us depth in 2 positions with one person. Exactly. When we had to play Mike Adams at slot it really was and indictment as to how bad our corners sucked after Bmac and Wright. When Bodden was here he generally was on the other team's best receiver. He would be able to thrive in a role where he wasn't expected to be the number one corner and could rotate in and out and stay fresh. Being fresh would also allow him to make more plays on the ball when he's in there and take advantage of his nose for the ball. Bodden is not an old man either, he's 27 and pretty much in his prime. Oh, and it also means we could have Rogers and Bodden for a third with Bodden making a drastically lower salary. How is this not a winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Adams played great in Sean Jones absence early on last season. I can't figure out what the hell happened after Jones came back though ... we were horrible as the season progressed. We should have never rushed Jones back, he was down-right bad (Percy Ellsworth bad). I think Adams ended up getting banged up too. Cousins was a chaser and completely out of position. Mel Tucker just shit the bed last season with how badly that group played. I wouldn't put it all on Tucker, his pedigree to this point has been pretty good. Grossi said it best, and that is he never would have went into the season with the starting corners being Bmac and Wright with no viable depth or backups. Then you factor in Jones being out, Cousin being a colossal bust and then Jones not playing at a high level until late in the season. It all adds up to a dangerous potion when you have no pass rush and no run support. Bodden could really solidify this secondary. It allows us to draft a safety if Jones takes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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