VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 70's with medical advances I just looked it up The mean is in the 40's, I said median in the above post Source:http://www.sicklecelldisease.org/index.cfm?page=faq You can live up to your 70s, but it's not the majority of cases. Not yet, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Anyway abortion for medical reasons is substantially different than abortion because you just don't want the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 We've had this argument before and my opinion of elective abortion has failed to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yummy, but no. If you think that a two year old is less sentient than a chicken, you're just being obtuse. ? Hey it was your own dip shit example.... Make it a one day old if you'd rather. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Let's ask this. Would you rather have sickle cell or never get the chance to live at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yeah, we disagree there. I just don't get the vitriol that's directed at women in college who opt for an abortion. When the options are dropping out of college with student loan debt, no degree, likely single, and a second mouth to feed, I really can't see why people would be angry that they choose abortion. Those who choose to give birth are going to be stuck in the lower class for the rest of their life, likely living off all sorts of social services. I don't really think that's the best thing for society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Why aren't those women on free birth control pills? They're pretty efficient at preventing pregnancy in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yeah, we disagree there. I just don't get the vitriol that's directed at women in college who opt for an abortion. When the options are dropping out of college with student loan debt, no degree, likely single, and a second mouth to feed, I really can't see why people would be angry that they choose abortion. Those who choose to give birth are going to be stuck in the lower class for the rest of their life, likely living off all sorts of social services. I don't really think that's the best thing for society. OK. Now we are beginning to be on the same page. Cost to society, I understand that. So let's go back to my facetious argument of a few years ago... Let's sterilize the poor! problem solved. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hey it was your own dip shit example.... WSS And you were the only one suggesting that because I'm okay with killing chickens, I'm okay with killing kids. Dipshit Let's ask this. Would you rather have sickle cell or never get the chance to live at all? I can't really answer that, I haven't had much exposure to sickle cell. I've been lucky enough to have hit the genetic lottery. Some of the people I've seen who come to free clinics for all their healthcare needs, really heartbreaking stuff - I can tell you that I'd much rather be spared existence than to experience life through their eyes. That being said, those folks need all the help they can get, and I'm happy to oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 And you were the only one suggesting that because I'm okay with killing chickens, I'm okay with killing kids. Dipshit I can't really answer that, I haven't had much exposure to sickle cell. I've been lucky enough to have hit the genetic lottery. Some of the people I've seen who come to free clinics for all their healthcare needs, really heartbreaking stuff - I can tell you that I'd much rather be spared existence than to experience life through their eyes. That being said, those folks need all the help they can get, and I'm happy to oblige. Really? You'd rather never experience love, sex, happiness because you may or may not contract a debilitating disease? I wouldn't choose to have missed out on life for any reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Really? You'd rather never experience love, sex, happiness because you may or may not contract a debilitating disease? I wouldn't choose to have missed out on life for any reason I give Cysko the points on this one. There are an awful lot of miserable people in the world probably least of which in the United States, but still relatively few suicides. And suicide is pretty fucking easy to pull off. Most people, I think would choose to live once here. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Why aren't those women on free birth control pills? They're pretty efficient at preventing pregnancy in the first place In some cases, idiocy, but that hardly seems like a sufficient reason to stick them with that lot in life. Personally, I think that 95% of people are poorly educated on the efficacy of birth control, and they rely too heavily on a single method. Most birth control methods have a 5-20% failure rate (ie. they result in pregnancy) over the course of a year. If you really want to use birth control effectively, options should be combined. If she's not on the pill, and you're only using a condom, you'd best pull out. With the exception of IUDs, using only one form of birth control is just asking for a kid, imo. Until people start realizing this, there are going to be lots of surprises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 In some cases, idiocy, but that hardly seems like a sufficient reason to stick them with that lot in life. Personally, I think that 95% of people are poorly educated on the efficacy of birth control, and they rely too heavily on a single method. Most birth control methods have a 5-20% failure rate (ie. they result in pregnancy) over the course of a year. If you really want to use birth control effectively, options should be combined. If she's not on the pill, and you're only using a condom, you'd best pull out. With the exception of IUDs, using only one form of birth control is just asking for a kid, imo. Until people start realizing this, there are going to be lots of surprises. The good lady has a copper implant which we use as the single method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 In some cases, idiocy, but that hardly seems like a sufficient reason to stick them with that lot in life. Personally, I think that 95% of people are poorly educated on the efficacy of birth control, and they rely too heavily on a single method. Most birth control methods have a 5-20% failure rate (ie. they result in pregnancy) over the course of a year. If you really want to use birth control effectively, options should be combined. If she's not on the pill, and you're only using a condom, you'd best pull out. With the exception of IUDs, using only one form of birth control is just asking for a kid, imo. Until people start realizing this, there are going to be lots of surprises. I'm all for education in preventing a cruel and morally reprehensible practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Really? You'd rather never experience love, sex, happiness because you may or may not contract a debilitating disease? I wouldn't choose to have missed out on life for any reason I give Cysko the points on this one. There are an awful lot of miserable people in the world probably least of which in the United States, but still relatively few suicides. And suicide is pretty fucking easy to pull off. Most people, I think would choose to live once here. WSS Ironically, I'm probably a posterchild for the pro-life movement. Born to a low-income 20 year old whose entire family suggested to abort me. And here I am moving up the socioeconomic ladder and living the American Dream, so long as student loan debt doesn't kill me first. On the flip side, it absolutely kills me that my existence took a whole lot of opportunities away from my parents. I watched them constantly struggle and fight over (lack of) money, and I'm dating an upper-class white girl who has no idea what it's like to watch her parents scream at each other. My parents both love me, they're proud of me, and they're living vicariously through me, but I can tell that they feel they missed out on their 20's. As much as I appreciate my own life, I don't think it's right to make a 20 year old put their life on hold to make room for another one because they made some boneheaded decisions. If I was in my mom's shoes, I would have aborted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So the epidemic of single parent children and the illegitimacy rate is due to, now let me get this straight, women who are absolutely too fucking stupid to know how babies are made? That's your platform? How in the hell do we allow them to vote? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So the epidemic of single parent children and the illegitimacy rate is due to, now let me get this straight, women who are absolutely too fucking stupid to know how babies are made? That's your platform? How in the hell do we allow them to vote? WSS I say keep 'em chained up in the kitchen where they belong! But an IQ test before being able to vote would be a wonderful thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Ironically, I'm probably a posterchild for the pro-life movement. Born to a low-income 20 year old whose entire family suggested to abort me. And here I am moving up the socioeconomic ladder and living the American Dream, so long as student loan debt doesn't kill me first. On the flip side, it absolutely kills me that my existence took a whole lot of opportunities away from my parents. I watched them constantly struggle and fight over (lack of) money, and I'm dating an upper-class white girl who has no idea what it's like to watch her parents scream at each other. My parents both love me, they're proud of me, and they're living vicariously through me, but I can tell that they feel they missed out on their 20's. As much as I appreciate my own life, I don't think it's right to make a 20 year old put their life on hold to make room for another one because they made some boneheaded decisions. If I was in my mom's shoes, I would have aborted me. So would we......... (kidding) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So would we......... (kidding) WSS I lold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I say keep 'em chained up in the kitchen where they belong! But an IQ test before being able to vote would be a wonderful thing... If in fact you are too stupid to know how pregnancy happens a chain in a kitchen is probably the best you should ask for. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 If in fact you are too stupid to know how pregnancy happens a chain in a kitchen is probably the best you should ask for. WSS Fuck no, I'd probably get food poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's callous. They didn't and now what? Are your parents living a life of abject misery and hardship? Would they have gained more happiness than they have now by aborting you? Ask your mother if shed have traded the joy and frustration of raising you to adulthood for a little extra cash. Money comes and goes in life. Nothing can replace feeling of partaking in your child's joys and ills in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Here's a thought exercise - Carlos Boozer's first child had sickle-cell anemia. He and his wife wanted to ensure that their second child did not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWU22DGOO2c They didn't want an abortion for their first child, it never was an option. For their second child, they used in vitro fertilization, which required the fertilization of ~20 ova. Only a few of these embryo did not express the sickle-cell trait, those which did were destroyed. Would you consider Carlos Boozer a mass murderer? A mass murderer? no. A shitty human being? Yes Gonna be an awkward love letter to that first child, don't you think? Dearest Firstborn: You and your dabilitating disease are such a burden on our family's happiness and opulent wealth (of which 99.9% of the world will never know, much less enjoy), that we have decided to push the limits of medical science (and perhaps decency) to ensure that YOU NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. At least in our family. Your mother and I couldn't put ourselves through the agony of loving another child as physically, mentally, and emotionally demanding as you. All the best, Carlos (dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's callous. They didn't and now what? Are your parents living a life of abject misery and hardship? Would they have gained more happiness than they have now by aborting you? Ask your mother if shed have traded the joy and frustration of raising you to adulthood for a little extra cash. Money comes and goes in life. Nothing can replace feeling of partaking in your child's joys and ills in life. I don't wish that she never had kids. I just wish it happened later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 When you die I doubt many people bitterly wish they'd had more money. You may regret time not spent with loved ones but probably not regret being richer. You can't take money and status with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I don't wish that she never had kids. I just wish it happened later. I don't care what you think. I want to know what your parents think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I don't care what you think. I want to know what your parents think The point I'm trying to make is that my parents always had the choice available to them. If I had to guess, I'd say that they were happy they chose what they did (like they're gonna tell me otherwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Came across this about 'smart' guns. Basic premise is you wear a watch which acts as a second safety on the gun - if the watch isn't within a few inches of the gun (ie, you're not wearing the watch) the gun won't fire. It would certainly eliminate the possibility of little timmy psycho stealing him dad's gun and going on a rampage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Came across this about 'smart' guns. Basic premise is you wear a watch which acts as a second safety on the gun - if the watch isn't within a few inches of the gun (ie, you're not wearing the watch) the gun won't fire. It would certainly eliminate the possibility of little timmy psycho stealing him dad's gun and going on a rampage. Assuming infallibility of the technology, this is presumably the kind of gun control that pro-gun people can get behind - so that only the owner of the gun can fire it? Not necessarily sold on a smart watch being included - perhaps something you could attach to your watch in a discreet way? Obviously, if you're wearing a big 'I can fire my gun' watch, it defeats the point of CCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 The potential for that set up to screw up make it a no go for me at least. What happens if you have to use your "off hand" that doesn't have the watch? I am normally a "no safeties but the one between your ears" kind of guy. I carry Glocks, M&Ps (buy models with zero safeties), and Sigs. I don't like having to mess with any safeties in a high stress situation. I have a ton of range time in so I am comfortable with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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