Rams fan talking draft

[cdl15]

which is kind of why I want him. If Watkins is gone by #4, I really hope we take him.

 

too much sense. Not gonna happen. New qb with more second tier wr talent.

[hoorta]

 

I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.

 

 

That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.

 

 

Houston may very well take Clowney, but if they don't I can see the Rams either taking him or trading with Atlanta for him. So I think Clowney is going #1 or #2.

 

So the first QB is going either #1 or #2. And the second QB is going to Jax at #3.

 

If the Browns stay at #4, they will very likely get the the third QB, or Watkins. I highly doubt you get Clowney at #4.

 

There are many Rams fans that want Watkins at #2, but the big argument is that he's not a physical freak. He's may measure in under 6'1" at the Combine so he's not in the AJ Green, Juio Jones class. The remaining Rams fans want either Matthews or Robinson.

 

Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.

 

 

Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.

What constitutes "a lot"? By my count, I see about four that are flat out against Manziel, regardless of trading.

[ballpeen]

 

I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.

 

I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.

 

Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.

I could see it happening, though not a great possibility. My feeling is if we have a target, don't hope he is there. Just go ahead and do it. Live or die with that decision rather than allow other teams to dictate who you select.

 

That also makes me believe if we do trade, it will be for the #1 pick, and not the #2 pick. Houston has said they would like to drop as has St.Louis. That will bring some discount, especially since we sit at #4. Moving to #1 won't cost that much more then moving to #2. I think the only way we trade with the Rams is if we have Manziel and Bridgewater rated evenly and don't really care which guy we get.

 

We need to play that angle because #4 is a good trade down point for either team. Both will still be able to get a target player and pick something up in return. Our other 1st rounder will be the chip, but I wouldn't rule out us getting something else in return....maybe a 4th rounder. I don't see the market being such that will make it like it was for RGIII. I think it is more of a buyers market this year with the top two teams seeking to drop.

[Tour2ma]

Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.

Based upon his lack of progress, I'd be concerned, too. I know Miami had personnel "issues", but we in Cleveland have learned that there are no excuses.

 

There are many Rams fans who have Fisher on the hot seat. They would dump him if the Rams don't win in his 3rd season.

 

Getting #2 was a gift from heaven. When they made that RG3 trade, many thought the Rams blew it.

Brilliant trade...

 

As for Jeff... I love the guy, but understand the impatience. It's not just a lack of progress at St. Louis, it's also his TN resume where while relevant for a period, they only really contended one year.

 

 

I think they'll draft him even if they stay 3-4. That dude is more athletically gifted now than either of our OLB'ers. They may start off using him like we use Kruger, with his hands mostly in the dirt. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.

Could be, but standing up even a great athlete is a far from certain transition. Just ask Mario Williams... which means I guess you could ask Pettine.

[Tour2ma]

I could see (3 QBs in the first 3 picks) happening, though not a great possibility.

Ditto...

 

The draft can have elements of a lemming mentality to it. Once a run on a position starts, it continues for a while. And when teams start trading into positions to continue the run "it's on"... OT seems to be a favorite Round 1 run position. I think that the rookie pay structure makes it seem even more likely that a QB run is in the offing.

 

That said runs are more common in what are now the Day 2 rounds (there's almost always a CB run at some point), but it has and can happen on Day 1.

[Westside Steve]

I'll be pissed if we trade any of our first 5 picks. We have 5 of the first 83 picks, we should be able to get quality players without selling the farm to move up.

I'm with you there Bob. I'd bet that at least one of the top for quarterbacks will still be there at 26. Probably somebody in the second or third round with as much potential, and a better shot at success with three or four ass kicking pics on the team before him. I can see reasons to take any of the four top quarterbacks, possibly even 5. Also the risk of taking any of them. Of course whoever they pick will be my guy, but only after Brian Hoyer proves he can't.

 

Ram guy, you drafted Sam Bradford pretty high so it's going to be tough to write him off. That's the problem with a high pick quarterback. If we got somebody in the third round we wouldn't freak out starting somebody else.

 

WSS

WSS

[maxwell]

Just to summarize...

The problem for the Rams in this draft is that there is no once in a decade guy at a position of need for them, only Clowney. Plus, there are 2 OTs and a WR that really good but not at the Orlando Pace or Megatron level.

Thing is, SOMEBODY has to go #1 overall. It appears that it will be one of 4 guys. Those 3 QBs or Clowney. I mean, even if Houston trades down like this guy is talking about, SOME TEAM has to take SOMEBODY. And I don't believe it will be anybody but one of those 4 guys. So it doesn't matter to us, really who has the pick. We just scratch a QB or Clowney off the board.

Does anyone really believe the Rams aren't trading down? With 3 of those 4 potential #1 picks still on the board, some team will want one of them. Cleveland, Minny, Atlanta, and Oakland are good candidates for a trade. I gotta believe the Rams are trading with one of them.

Then Jax will take either a QB or Clowney.

So after the first 3 picks, I think 2 QBs and Clowney will be off the board.

The only question is whether Watkins or one of the OTs goes in the top 3. And the way I see it, the only way that happens is if they go in the #2 spot to the Rams, which I doubt.

So if the Rams trade out of #2 as many expect, and they don't trade with Cleveland, then the Browns will be very likely down to the last of the 3 top QBs to pick. That could be a big problem for them if they determine there is a guy they really want ahead of the others. That's the way I see now anyway.

 

[LondonBrown]

Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.

[Westside Steve]

Hell I'd be happy to trade down from the number 4 pic if we could find a sucker that fell in love with one of these top five guys...

WSS

[The Gipper]

Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.

By NO means will we know which QB the Browns want after the combine. We won't know that until the moment they pick him. NFL teams often guard their thoughts on who they want to draft as if they were state secrets on the order of the Enigma Machine.

So, no, we may never have a clue until the deed is done.

And that is the way it should be if the Browns are smart. And Banner is smart that way.

[ballpeen]

I don't think he meant WE would know. I took it that the FO would know who hey want to target.

[LondonBrown]

Yeah I said the FO will know, we won't have a clue!

[The Gipper]

Yeah I said the FO will know, we won't have a clue!

OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).

Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.

So many contingencies.

 

Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.

And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?

I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).

[LondonBrown]

I don't think they know who they want yet at all, there are a few months of evaluations to come.

[maxwell]

OK, well, maybe they will know. By some reports their mind if already made up. (I doubt that).

Hell, it is possible they may not know themselves until they are on the board.

So many contingencies.

 

Remember how panicked the Browns were (Bill Belichick) when Kyle Brady, the man they wanted was plucked right before they picked? They went into panic mode.

And correct me if I am wrong.....wasn't Lombardi involved in that situation?

I suspect he has learned not to go into panic mode....(or maybe he has learned nothing).

If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.

 

Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.

 

I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.

[The Gipper]

If they don't know until they are on the board, then you need a new front office.

Let's put it this way: they may know who they want....say they really want JM....but lets say he is taken ahead of them the Texans or Jags. Well, they are not going to get what they want, are they. They will then have to fall to Plan B. That is what I mean by "they won't know". They don't know if the guy they really really want is going to be there.

 

Most of the FO's know before the Combine who they want and just use the Combine to confirm medical and psycho stuff. The tape doesn't change between now and May 8th.

 

I think if Houston takes a QB at #1, that will send a bit of a shock wave to the other teams near the top of the draft looking for a QB. Jax, Minny, Oak, and Cleveland will get more active on the phones.

 

I am not that intimately familiar with how an NFL FO works to say that they know who they want before the combine. I seriously doubt that for most teams.

 

[hoorta]

Once the combine etc is done I am sure the FO will know which QB they want and trade up for him. It's a young roster I just don't see them drafting 10 more rookies.

 

If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...

 

It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.

 

And I absolutely disagree that a team knows "for sure" who they're taking before the combine. It would be criminally negligent- at least regarding your first round pick(s)- if you didn't interview them at length, and stage multiple workouts..

[maxwell]

 

Ah. I got what you were saying now.

 

Well, it kind of goes with my point. Assuming the Browns know who they want on May 7th, they have a few options.

 

1. They can try to trade up with Houston to ensure getting him. This is the most costly method but sure fire, except if Houston prefers to take who they want at #1. I think the odds are pretty good that the guy Cleveland wants is not the same guy the Texans want, plus Clowney is in the mix. So it's best to wait until #2, I think.

 

2. Waiting until the Rams are on the clock makes it interesting for the Browns. If the Texans took the Browns guy, then the Browns may just wait it out until #4 or they may have a close 2nd guy that they like almost as much. I think the Browns would make the trade with the Rams if they have a close 2nd guy.

 

3. If the Browns guy is taken by Houston, then the Brown may just sit tight at #4. They could do this even if their guy hasn't been taken by Houston, but will they risk losing him to either another team that trades with the Rams, like Minny, or letting Jax take him at #3?

[maxwell]

 

If you see talent in the draft that's better than what you have on the roster- you keep the picks. IMHO, the only way the Browns are trading up is if they're rock solid certain the qb they're trading up for is a bona fide franchise guy. Personally, I hope the Browns keep the at least the first four picks. You want to unload picks, do what the FO did last year- trade a third into a future second, and fourth into a third...

 

It's extremely unlikely that qbs will go 1-2-3 in this draft, no Luck or RGIII by all accounts, So if you have them rated evenly, you stand pat @ #4. The #1 crime in drafting is to fall too much in love with a particular player. I give you Mad Dog in a Meat Market Mega-Bust Mike Junkin as exhibit A. Rule #2 is don't panic if the guy you want gets taken off the board before you draft- say hi to Clifford Charlton. LOL, as Rams fan pointed out- but didn't elaborate on, if Atlanta trades up to #2, it sure won't be to take a qb- they're taking Clowney.

So what if Houston's O'Brien falls in love with Bortles and they take him at #1, for example.

 

And the Browns believe Bridgewater is the franchise guy they want.

 

Do they trade up with the Rams or do they risk Minny or Oak trading up with the Rams to take him or Jax taking him at #3?

 

That's the big question.

[hoorta]

So what if Houston's O'Brien falls in love with Bortles and they take him at #1, for example.

 

And the Browns believe Bridgewater is the franchise guy they want.

 

Do they trade up with the Rams or do they risk Minny or Oak trading up with the Rams to take him or Jax taking him at #3?

 

That's the big question.

 

Exactly what I said.... If Bridgewater is there @ #2, and they're certain, they may well make the trade. Ditto Manziel, though personally I'm the #1 member of the anti- Johnny Football camp. & personally, I don't offer anything more than our second round pick, or future pick(s) and not a first either.

 

BTW, the Jags are in even better position, and will need to offer less, moving up just one spot to take a qb. That's contingent on how greedy the Rams want to get dropping down farther to get more picks- but risk out on a top player. IMO you have the three qbs, Clowney and Watkins. None are likely to be there if you trade with Atlanta.

[maxwell]

 

Exactly what I said.... If Bridgewater is there @ #2, and they're certain, they may well make the trade. Ditto Manziel, though personally I'm the #1 member of the anti- Johnny Football camp. & personally, I don't offer anything more than our second round pick, or future pick(s) and not a first either.

 

BTW, the Jags are in even better position, and will need to offer less, moving up just one spot to take a qb. That's contingent on how greedy the Rams want to get dropping down farther to get more picks- but risk out on a top player. IMO you have the three qbs, Clowney and Watkins. None are likely to be there if you trade with Atlanta.

True about the Jags. And it could get interesting if Jax, the Browns, and another team all want the same guy.

 

Thing is, the Rams aren't interested in a QB, and DE is the strongest position on their team with Quinn and Long, so Clowney is a luxury pick for them. They may want Watkins or they may want one of the OTs. The OTs are of importance to the Rams now that Jake Long is coming off knee surgery and looks very injury prone now. Plus, they probably are gonna lose Rodger Saffold in FA. So suddenly, OT is a clear need.

 

If they want Watkins they can certainly get him at #4 and they can get one of the OTs at the Vikes spot at #8.

[The Gipper]

Or, what if the "real evaluators" are right......that these QBs given proper perspective ALL grade out to lower first round picks.....and that taking any of them should actually be considered a reach.

 

Not sure which scouting service does it, but they give each and every draft prospect a grade that goes like from 0-100.

 

It is possible that in a totally unprejudiced system that all these QBs could be considered not even in the Top 10 or 15.

 

To my mind taking any one of them at #4 may be overpaying for them.

[maxwell]

Just heard Peter King say he doesn't see Johnny Football in Houston. Doesn't fit the profile in Houston. Thinks they go with Bortles at #1 or in a trade down.

He stated the obvious, Rams wants to trade down. Didn't name a single player. Just that Snead is spoiled having multiple high picks and wants more.

Said Jax is a great fit for Johnny Football, and that JF won't get past #3.

PK said he knows that the Cleveland scouts really like Manziel, and now that Norv Turner is gone, that fits them going after Manziel.

He said it's early but if it ends up that Houston falls in love with Bortles and takes him at #1, then Rams are in business in a bidding war between Jax and Cleveland for Manziel.

I found it curious that PK didn't mention Teddy at all in the conversation. And I think the Raiders and Minny are in the mix as well.

 

All this means to me is that I'll be shocked if these QBs last very long in this draft. I think these QBs will be rated a lot higher than last years guys, like Manuel and Smith and Nassib. Sure, there is no Luck in this draft but these guys are still fairly high picks.

[jrb12711]

To be honest I didn't read every sentence in the thread, but I think the Rams are in an awesome place to get either a high 2nd or (gulp) another first round pick specifically for Johnny Manziel in this draft. Obviously, if the Texans take Manziel this all goes out the window. Assuming he doesn't though, I'd bet my left nut one of the top ten teams who will seriously consider QB (Browns, Jags, Raiders, Vikings) will fall in love with Manziel and trade with the Rams for that pick. He's got that hype just like RG III had and I feel confident his workouts will only further it. Of course that's only speculation, but it seems like a likely collision course. I still can't believe that RGIII trade managed to turn into the 2nd overall pick.

[maxwell]

To be honest I didn't read every sentence in the thread, but I think the Rams are in an awesome place to get either a high 2nd or (gulp) another first round pick specifically for Johnny Manziel in this draft. Obviously, if the Texans take Manziel this all goes out the window. Assuming he doesn't though, I'd bet my left nut one of the top ten teams who will seriously consider QB (Browns, Jags, Raiders, Vikings) will fall in love with Manziel and trade with the Rams for that pick. He's got that hype just like RG III had and I feel confident his workouts will only further it. Of course that's only speculation, but it seems like a likely collision course. I still can't believe that RGIII trade managed to turn into the 2nd overall pick.

 

You make perfect sense to me.

 

Totally agree that Manziel is the key. If he is there at #2, the Rams are in business.

 

All signs point to Houston not taking him, but will they trade the pick so someone else can? They could trade with Jax, so Jax takes Manziel. But that only works if the Texans aren't in love with a specific QB. As the saying goes if you are in love with a QB you take him when you can.

 

And you're not the only guy who can't believe how the RG3 trade turned out in terms of the picks. On the Rams message board there were guys who said Snead made a mistake and should not have spread the picks out. Snead said at the time of the deal, that he specifically wanted the a first round pick in 2014 and that's why the Skins deal was more appealing than the Browns offer. Snead certainly got lucky, but luck is a residue of design. The guy knows what he's doing.

[bbedward]

I don't think manziel is nearly as appealing as Bridgewater as far as QBs go. Good game against duke doesn't make him the #1 QB all of a sudden.

 

Just IMO.

[Clevfan4life]

 

 

 

 

Could be, but standing up even a great athlete is a far from certain transition. Just ask Mario Williams... which means I guess you could ask Pettine.

 

 

Like I said I think we would use him like we use Kruger, who has his hand in the dirt most of the season. He'd be starting by year 2 or 3 which would be near or at the end of Krugers contract. Bye bye unless something magical happens and he gives us a 15 sack season next year.

[hoorta]

 

You make perfect sense to me.

 

Totally agree that Manziel is the key. If he is there at #2, the Rams are in business.

 

All signs point to Houston not taking him, but will they trade the pick so someone else can? They could trade with Jax, so Jax takes Manziel. But that only works if the Texans aren't in love with a specific QB. As the saying goes if you are in love with a QB you take him when you can.

 

And you're not the only guy who can't believe how the RG3 trade turned out in terms of the picks. On the Rams message board there were guys who said Snead made a mistake and should not have spread the picks out. Snead said at the time of the deal, that he specifically wanted the a first round pick in 2014 and that's why the Skins deal was more appealing than the Browns offer. Snead certainly got lucky, but luck is a residue of design. The guy knows what he's doing.

 

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. We'd be in exactly the Redskins shoes if the Rams had taken the Browns offer instead of Washington's. Every Browns fan is saying a prayer of thanks that the Josh Gordon trade rumors didn't come true. Also, I would hope the RGIII deal collectively taught FOs across the NFL that it's foolhardy to sell the ranch on a qb prospect. Three firsts and a second isn't happening this year.

 

 

Really?

 

 

Yeah- Manziel had that great game against Sam Houston State too.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. We'd be in exactly the Redskins shoes if the Rams had taken the Browns offer instead of Washington's. Every Browns fan is saying a prayer of thanks that the Josh Gordon trade rumors didn't come true. Also, I would hope the RGIII deal collectively taught FOs across the NFL that it's foolhardy to sell the ranch on a qb prospect. Three firsts and a second isn't happening this year.

 

 

 

Yeah- Manziel had that great game against Sam Houston State too.

I mean, it's not like he accounted for 5 touchdowns against the #1 ranked Bama defense or anything.