Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Post your player(s)... Make your case... Let the battle begin... My can't miss list members in order (* denotes new additions): Sammy Watkins (WR-Clemson) Jake Mathews (OT-TAMU) Anthony Barr (OLB-UCLA) Khalil Mack* (OLB-BUF) Jadeveon Clowney (DE-SCar) Kony Ealy* (DE-Missou) I have one recent deletion: Gabe Jackson (OG-MissSt - bad Sr. Bowl week) Still under consideration (in no particular order): Eric Ebron (TE-NC); Mike Evans (WR-TAMU); Marqise Lee (WR-USC); Greg Robinson (OT-Auburn); David Yankey (OG-Stanford) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 nice list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I see you have no QBs on your list. Explain please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Im sure Lametardi is going to draft guys no one ever heard of..He always does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I see you have no QBs on your list. Explain please.He specified what he thought are can't miss prospects. What to explain?WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I see you have no QBs on your list. Explain please. QBs are just a lot harder to label as "can't miss". You see a lot of people questioning aspects of Manziel, Bridgewater, Bortles, etc. But you don't really see people criticizing watkins' hands, awareness, speed, etc. Everyone can miss though. QBs more likely than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 No such thing as a "can't miss" player in the draft. Put their names on a routlette wheel, and I wouldn't even make a bet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 He specified what he thought are can't miss prospects. What to explain? WSS I just thought I might like his opinion on why any of the top QB prospects do not fall into the "can't miss" category. I don't disagree with him, I just thought I might like to know his reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Luck was considered one of the biggest can't miss players in years. For all positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I see you have no QBs on your list. Explain please. I also have no RBs, FBs, DTs, ILBs, CBs, FSs, SSs, Ps, or Ks. Does not mean there aren't any... just that I have not tabbed any.... yet. He specified what he thought are can't miss prospects. What to explain? Bingo... QBs are just a lot harder to label as "can't miss". You see a lot of people questioning aspects of Manziel, Bridgewater, Bortles, etc. But you don't really see people criticizing watkins' hands, awareness, speed, etc. Exactly... It's all probablility based. The greater the skill set required, the higher the bar to "can't miss". And, to borrow a phrase from The Right Stuff. QBs are "at the top of the pyramid." No such thing as a "can't miss" player in the draft. Put their names on a routlette wheel, and I wouldn't even make a bet... Here are a few I have tabbed: Joe Thomas... Patrick Peterson... Ndamukong Suh... Calvin Johnson... Andrew Luck... Orlando Pace... There are players in nearly every draft who are so ready to excel in the NFL that the only things that can keep them from stardom are injury (Greg Cook)... and sometimes not even that (Adrian Peterson)... or self-destruction (Von Miller... so far...). Are there ever consensus "can't miss" players that miss? Sure, but that's on the evaluators... not the players. Have I ever mislabelled a player as "can't miss"? Yup... while I was not for taking him as high as we did, I thought TR was going to be a stud, but I had Doug Martin as a better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Luck was considered one of the biggest can't miss players in years. For all positions. Yea Luck's don't come around often though. You could go back a lot of drafts and most of the top QBs wouldn't go in the 1st if we knew then what we did then. But when there is a "can't miss" guy they could fail miserably (Ryan Leaf). And of course guys with question marks could be incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yea Luck's don't come around often though. True... Luck, P. Manning, Elway... maybe one per decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Joe Thomas was a can't miss guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gipper there are also no safeties guards inside linebackers kickers or punters in his top 6. And we understand that can't miss players sometimes, well, miss. But it's probably fair to say that a guy should be a once every few years calibre player to be considered a can't miss prospect. Disagree? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Joe Thomas was a can't miss guy You don't have to list all the "can't miss" guys who turned out good, because I don't want to list all the "can't miss" guys who turned out to bust... thanks I'll play along though: If there were any "can't miss" players in this draft, here's who I think: Anthony Barr - OLB - UCLA - at 6'4" 250 with great speed, he's a can't miss OLB for a 3-4 team b/c he doesn't have to convert - he played 3-4 OLB in college. Jadaveon Clowney - DE - So.Car - he is ONLY a "can't miss" if he plays 4-3 DE. I would never call a pass rusher who has to convert to OLB as "can't miss" Jake Matthews - OT - TA&M - it's easy to predict OTs will be "can't miss," but different blocking schemes and QB styles can affect guys at the next level C.J. Mosley - LB - Alabama - I call him "can't miss" because he is very versatile. Can fit inside in a 3-4 or outside in a 4-3, either way he's always around the ball Kony Ealy - DE - Missouri - another "can't miss" ONLY if he plays 4-3 DE. "Might" fit a 3-4 DE, but again, you never know when systems change Question marks surrounding all the other players projected in the first round IMHO. There are other players that I think will be good, but I couldn't call them "can't miss." I would never put that label on a QB, RB, WR, or CB because it is so difficult to grade those positions b/c of the widespread level of competetion they are against in college... just my thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Of course it is his opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beare Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 clowneys not a cant miss it all depends on his desire to play he seems to take games off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Daddy Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 True... Luck, P. Manning, Elway... maybe one per decade. And the Colts drafted all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gipper there are also no safeties guards inside linebackers kickers or punters in his top 6. And we understand that can't miss players sometimes, well, miss. But it's probably fair to say that a guy should be a once every few years calibre player to be considered a can't miss prospect. Disagree? WSS OK, but no position gets the attention that a QB gets.....look at this forum....90% of it is dedicated to yammering on and on about the QB position. If Tour says "no QB in my opinion rates a can't miss" I would not argue...probably agree. But when you state that opinion on such a hot button topic people want to also know Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Clowney is from S.Car. Not Clempsun. Please fix that egregious mistake before he realizes it and eats the entire message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 I think he probably would have mentioned one if any of these four guys were being called the best to come out in years like some of the other positions. It's actually too bad there isn't a can't miss quarterback or two. Then we might have one instead of just paying for one. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 are we staying with the 3-4 or switching back to a 4-3. IMO the 4-3 was better suited to this team. sheard could get loose and who knows what kreuger would have ended up doing. since they haven't named a DC yet i guess it's all up in the air. if they were to switch to a 4-3 clowney would be 'can't miss'. there are no probs with his motor or taking games off. you've got to understand everyone was telling him to take the year off last year. he had just seen his team mate in lattimore lose his career the year before due to injury.....what would you have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 didn't we hire that Jim O'Neill from Buffalo? Or am I confusing somebody with somebody else... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewsBrowns Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Yeah they did... and when I read what Pettine's defensive philosophy is it sounds pretty much identical to Horton's. I guess they plan to run an aggressive 3-4,4-3 hybrid defense. Although I really can't recall Horton getting too creative with the D last year as much as it was hyped up to be before the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 didn't we hire that Jim O'Neill from Buffalo? Or am I confusing somebody with somebody else... WSS Yes, but Pettine is presumably going to be calling the plays this season... That means hybrid 3-4/4-3, depending on situations. Last year the Bills played a lot of 4-man fronts with 5-6 in the secondary. I think Pettine will be game-planning based on the players we have, and the team we're facing, not necessarily focusing on a "base D." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Ideally, I think our D would look good as a 4-3... Taylor/Bryant in the middle, Kruger/Sheard on the outside, Jackson in the middle, Mingo/Robertson at OLB, Haden/Skrine at CB, Ward at SS, and a gaping hole at FS That would be dependent on 3 things: 1-Mingo converting to the "Bruce Irvin-type" 4-3 OLB, 2-finding an upgrade to Robertson, and most importantly 3-we need a FS with great ball skills to round out what could be a stellar D... I'd consider Haha Clinton-Dix a potential "can't miss" prospect at #26, but he'll probably be gone by then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gipper there are also no safeties guards inside linebackers kickers or punters in his top 6. And we understand that can't miss players sometimes, well, miss. But it's probably fair to say that a guy should be a once every few years calibre player to be considered a can't miss prospect. Disagree? Ed Zachery... You don't have to list all the "can't miss" guys who turned out good, because I don't want to list all the "can't miss" guys who turned out to bust... thanks I'll play along though: If there were any "can't miss" players in this draft, here's who I think: Anthony Barr - OLB - UCLA - at 6'4" 250 with great speed, he's a can't miss OLB for a 3-4 team b/c he doesn't have to convert - he played 3-4 OLB in college. Jadaveon Clowney - DE - So.Car - he is ONLY a "can't miss" if he plays 4-3 DE. I would never call a pass rusher who has to convert to OLB as "can't miss" Jake Matthews - OT - TA&M - it's easy to predict OTs will be "can't miss," but different blocking schemes and QB styles can affect guys at the next level C.J. Mosley - LB - Alabama - I call him "can't miss" because he is very versatile. Can fit inside in a 3-4 or outside in a 4-3, either way he's always around the ball Kony Ealy - DE - Missouri - another "can't miss" ONLY if he plays 4-3 DE. "Might" fit a 3-4 DE, but again, you never know when systems change Question marks surrounding all the other players projected in the first round IMHO. There are other players that I think will be good, but I couldn't call them "can't miss." I would never put that label on a QB, RB, WR, or CB because it is so difficult to grade those positions b/c of the widespread level of competetion they are against in college... just my thoughts... All the hits and busts I listed were players I pegged, not "common wisdom" or consensus choices. So you can't list all my busts, because you do not know all my choices. TR was one; Brian Bosworth was another, but I never understood the hype around Tony Manderich... so I have that going for me. But glad you played along... substitute Watkins for Mosely and add Mack and you have my list... and your rationales are virtually identical to mine. And good thoughts they are on "other players"... so good you've inspired another thread. clowneys not a cant miss it all depends on his desire to play he seems to take games off Was also a major concern of mine until recently. And the Colts drafted all of them. LOL... damn... that's right! Clowney is from S.Car. Not Clempsun. Please fix that egregious mistake before he realizes it and eats the entire message board. Done... sorry for jeopardizing the entire operation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Pettine, I believe, fits his scheme to his players. All that's guaranteed is that we will field 11 players on defense. Sometimes we'll have 7 up front, 4 in coverage. Other times we may have 8 up front. Other times we may have 5 or even 6 in coverage. That's about the only guarantee you can make right now. If Pettine stays true to his "put the best players on the field" mantra, we'll be running the good ol' 4-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 If Tour says "no QB in my opinion rates a can't miss" I would not argue...probably agree. But when you state that opinion on such a hot button topic people want to also know Why? I stated it by omission? I can link to my cases against Bridgewater and Manziel, who are the only two QBs in the draft to even approach consensus Can't Miss status... and neither is really that close from all I have read. Ideally, I think our D would look good as a 4-3... Taylor/Bryant in the middle, Kruger/Sheard on the outside, Jackson in the middle, Mingo/Robertson at OLB, Haden/Skrine at CB, Ward at SS, and a gaping hole at FS Agree on the 4-3... but do not see Bryant in any DT rotation. I see Taylor/ Rubin/ Winn/ Hughes... If you think DQ is your MLB (I do not), then draft Barr at #4 and set your LB corps Mingo-Jackson-Barr. I'd move DQ back outside, and snag Borland in the 3rd for my MLB... Mingo-Borland-Jackson. Not sure what to do at FS... If Pettine stays true to his "put the best players on the field" mantra, we'll be running the good ol' 4-4. Actually more like a revolutionary 7-2-2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted February 4, 2014 Report Share Posted February 4, 2014 Agree on the 4-3... but do not see Bryant in any DT rotation. I see Taylor/ Rubin/ Winn/ Hughes... If you think DQ is your MLB (I do not), then draft Barr at #4 and set your LB corps Mingo-Jackson-Barr. I'd move DQ back outside, and snag Borland in the 3rd for my MLB... Mingo-Borland-Jackson. Desmond Bryant was our most disruptive D-lineman last year before he got hurt, and one of our highest paid... why would you not see him in the rotation? Also, DQJ never played OLB... and he was much more effective in his 2 seasons in the 4-3 than he ever was in his career... I'd add a player behind him to groom, but he is more than capable of starting at ILB with 4 linemen in front of him... he shrinks when there are only 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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