Hoyer trade rumor

[bbedward]

 

I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.

 

Carr is a top 4 QB prospect solely purely because of numbers. He's four of six quarterbacks that will get drafted before round 5. That, in no way, puts him in the category of being considered as the best QB prospect.

 

Shit, you could include Fales in the conversation just as quickly as you could Carr.

 

Yeah I'd say that Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles are higher than Carr. But they are the top 4 prospects.

 

Regardless there's people who think Bortles is the best prospect. Others say Manziel or Bridgewater. I'd be ok with any one of them since I'm not particularly high on any of them.

 

The FO would have to have one of those guys rated significantly higher than the others to make a trade like that. But it's all piss in the water until we learn their intentions on draft day.

 

I agree that Pete Carroll is a significantly better coach than any we've seen in a looong time. Their scouting department is also probably better than anything we've seen in a decent while (I'm sure Pete Carroll has a pretty big voice in personnel decisions there too).

[jcam222]

I honestly believe if we trade Hoyer we will regret it. Call it gut feel, call it bullshit , call it what you will I just strongly feel that. I loved how the team played with him in the game. Add a running game, another receiver and a guard to that and wow I think you have magic. Yes I know it was only two games and again I might be full of it but its what I feel.

 

I really do not want to see us going into the season with a rookie starter , a rookie back up and a third string vet.

 

The more likely scenario would be sending Hoyer to Washington for Cousins which again I would absolutely hate.

[Shep]

I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"

 

But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.

 

BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.

[jcam222]

I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"

 

But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.

 

BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.

Shep based on the play style you will get with Manziel and the good possibility he gets creamed wouldn't you prefer having Hoyer there to come in the game over Campbell or Cousins??

[miktoxic]

 

Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams.

this^. i think our scouting has been some of the worse this league has seen since coming back in '99.

 

but your comment of picking a QB @4 this year doesn't make sense in your argument about the seattle/cleveland comparison. remember wilson was a 3rd rounder. and i'm sure their front office didn't 'sell their soul' for any one position.

 

they sure as hell have made it look easy building a quality team since hiring carroll, than we have in 2 decades.

[Shep]

Statues get creamed. Johnny Football escapes. Plus, he'd have the best blindside blocker in football.

 

But I prefer Hoyer to Campbell on the field, period.

 

If you're talking about his love of contact, he'll need to get over it and step out of bounds, slide, etc. But he's done pretty well staying healthy... in the SEC.

 

 

Shep based on the play style you will get with Manziel and the good possibility he gets creamed wouldn't you prefer having Hoyer there to come in the game over Campbell or Cousins??

[Shep]

It's interesting that Seattle came really close to drafting Wilson in the 2nd round. Of course, now they'd take him top 10, if they could. Nick Foles might be top 10. Best two third round picks I've seen in quite some time.

 

Then again, last third round pick I saw start that many games that soon was Colt McCoy. Before that, Charlie Frye. Isn't like we haven't tried that route. We just didn't get steals.

 

Wilson was a steal because of height. Foles because people mistook his 40 time for a lack of mobility... and he's actually plenty mobile and athletic. I'd hate to see Big Ben's 40 time right now. Both guys should've had first round grades on arm talent. McCoy and Frye weren't 5'11" and didn't run 5.14/40s, so why were they available in round 3?

 

Because they aren't good.

[Rooster Dick]

Hoyer is the only hope I have for the 2014 Browns

[miktoxic]

Hoyer is the only hope I have for the 2014 Browns

here here!

 

i'm not against picking a QB @4 BUT you better make the can can win in the NFL. if you flop on a top 5 QB you are doomed for years to come.

 

i say use the quality picks on sure fire D players and offensive weapons play hoyer, good or bad. then aim at your guy next year.

 

i'm sure the jets would give back their last QB drafts to do the same.

[Blakebtb23]

IMO, There's not enough of a difference between the 4th and 1st pick in this draft to warrant trading Hoyer + other picks away. If we move up to get Manziel, he is not worth a first overall pick, and would probably be there at #4. I'd rather sit at 4 and take whoever falls to us.

 

 

 

I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.

 

Here you go: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1944924-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/4

Obviously this is a dumb mock and he will not go this high, even though that'd be great for us if the Jags actually did this.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

this^. i think our scouting has been some of the worse this league has seen since coming back in '99.

 

but your comment of picking a QB @4 this year doesn't make sense in your argument about the seattle/cleveland comparison. remember wilson was a 3rd rounder. and i'm sure their front office didn't 'sell their soul' for any one position.

 

they sure as hell have made it look easy building a quality team since hiring carroll, than we have in 2 decades.

Nobody is asking anyone to sell their soul, so I don't understand that.

 

Wilson is also a big part of the reason Manziel is even being considered in the top 5. He's proven that size does not matter, which I'm sure makes a lot of guys around here have been telling themselves for years.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

IMO, There's not enough of a difference between the 4th and 1st pick in this draft to warrant trading Hoyer + other picks away. If we move up to get Manziel, he is not worth a first overall pick, and would probably be there at #4. I'd rather sit at 4 and take whoever falls to us.

 

 

Here you go: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1944924-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/4

Obviously this is a dumb mock and he will not go this high, even though that'd be great for us if the Jags actually did this.

Wow.

 

Please let this happen.

[JAFBF]

This is the closest thing I've come across so far :

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/will_the_browns_trade_for_kirk.html

 

 

I like Hoyer, and I think he's got the infamous "it" factor

He's definitely the only QB I've seen spark the Team and lead come from behind victories in some years.

 

 

I don't know what anyone else has been hearing, but I've seen what I'd normally say is some crazy stuff.

 

There's new thinking in town though now, we've seen that for sure this year with the Trent deal and the shopping of Gordon . . .

 

 

So we've got Hoyer to the Texans, and possibly more (draft pick/another player)

Cousins coming to the Browns due to our just signing Shanahan as our OC since they've worked together

There's a Haden rumor for additional draft picks floating around

Word is Mack's gone (pretty much expected), and Ward may get the Franchise tag.

 

Possibly some more, but these are the closest to being remotely possible.

 

 

Can't say it's going to be boring with all these things kicking up, should be interesting to see how it shakes out.

3/11/14 is when things should start to get real as far as cuts/trades I believe . . . we'll see.

[hoorta]

 

Why wouldn't we have Seattle's defense? Because we're not drafting them high enough?

 

No, because we draft like shit, Maiava anyone?

 

We have a higher ADP of our defensive players than they do. Our players were drafted higher than theirs.

 

See above.

 

Pete Carroll is a better defensive mind than Ray Horton. Ray Horton is not a good defensive coordinator, as I've been saying for a while. The proof is in the pudding. He had a more talented team than Seattle, based on average draft position, but didn't know how to use them.

 

Granted Horton was overrated. But If he had a more talented team, go tell me how many Browns start on Seattle's defense Haden is the #2 corner- don't tell me he's better than Sherman. Maybe Ward. Give me the other 9 Browns defensive players the Seahawks would trade for straight up. Position by position.

 

Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams. Either way, taking a quarterback at #4 doesn't change either of those facts.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

 

Why wouldn't we have Seattle's defense? Because we're not drafting them high enough?

 

No, because we draft like shit, Maiava anyone?

 

We have a higher ADP of our defensive players than they do. Our players were drafted higher than theirs.

 

See above.

 

Pete Carroll is a better defensive mind than Ray Horton. Ray Horton is not a good defensive coordinator, as I've been saying for a while. The proof is in the pudding. He had a more talented team than Seattle, based on average draft position, but didn't know how to use them.

 

Granted Horton was overrated. But If he had a more talented team, go tell me how many Browns start on Seattle's defense Haden is the #2 corner- don't tell me he's better than Sherman. Maybe Ward. Give me the other 9 Browns defensive players the Seahawks would trade for straight up. Position by position.

 

 

Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams. Either way, taking a quarterback at #4 doesn't change either of those facts.

So your argument is that we are shitty drafters, and the solution is that we should just waste our higher draft picks on players that won't turn out anyway.

 

Got it.

[hoorta]

So your argument is that we are shitty drafters, and the solution is that we should just waste our higher draft picks on players that won't turn out anyway.

 

Got it.

 

Proven fact that a huge part of the Browns problems since 1999 have been atrocious draft day decisions, I won't reiterate them, but I'll be happy to point out the future Hall of Famers and multiple Pro Bowl selections that were still within easy reach when we drafted if you'd like. .

 

The rest of your statement is a non-sequitur. However, Lombardi (Mr Shit track record drafter) may continue the trend.

 

Now kindly kindly answer how many of the Browns defense would have a shot at starting on Seattle's. I say damn few.

[cuwoohio]

I can't see the Texans doing anything like that. I could see them picking Manziel with that 1st pick.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Proven fact that a huge part of the Browns problems since 1999 have been atrocious draft day decisions, I won't reiterate them, but I'll be happy to point out the future Hall of Famers and multiple Pro Bowl selections that were still within easy reach when we drafted if you'd like. .

 

The rest of your statement is a non-sequitur. However, Lombardi (Mr Shit track record drafter) may continue the trend.

 

Now kindly kindly answer how many of the Browns defense would have a shot at starting on Seattle's. I say damn few.

The schemes are different, but here goes:

 

Mingo, Sheard and Kruger could all start over at weak side linebacker over Malcolm Smith. All had similar stat lines and played nearly the same amount.

 

Ward would start over Chancellor. Better stats, similar playing time.

 

Haden would start at #2, based on stats. But, because of the scheme they run, he wouldn't be considered in a trade. He's simply too small.

 

Rubin would start on the interior over either Mebane or McDonald. Better stat line.

 

Desmond Bryant would also get some playing time on the interior.

 

 

Those Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers were available for many other teams as well. As a matter of fact, essentially every Pro Bowler and Hall of Famer not taken in the first round was passed over by every team at least once. So, by that reasoning, every team's scouting department sucks.

[hoorta]

Those Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers were available for many other teams as well. As a matter of fact, essentially every Pro Bowler and Hall of Famer not taken in the first round was passed over by every team at least once. So, by that reasoning, every team's scouting department sucks.

 

Many other teams? BS Not exactly- I have a better memory of Front office flops than you do- the worst passing on LaDanian Tomlinson, who went 2 slots below Gerrad Warren, or Richard Seymour that went three? How about Ed Reed who went 9 slots below Willie Green? Cameron Wimbley or Haloti Ngata- rough decision there. Taking (Known) Butterfingers Braylon when we needed a qb and Aaron fucking Rodgers was there for the taking. Freaking Brady Quinn potentially cost us Percy Harvin and Chris Johnson. I could go on- but you'd probably accuse me of 20\20 hindsight. That's just first round, and one second. You want to talk lower rounds- it's comical. Wazzits his name that landed in jail before he could even suit up. Yeah- we had a shot at Tom Brady, but decided to take Spurgon Wynn a couple of picks ahead. I call that shit drafting.

[Westside Steve]

We had a shot at Tom Brady. Yes since he went in the what sixth round that means that he was passed on nearly 200 times. So there are 32 or so front offices who are made up of fucking idiots. So what?

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Actually, Hoorta is exactly right. The Browns, for whatever stupid reasons, have made stupid ass

draft decisions over the years.

 

I blame it on the front offices, and the likes of guys like Savage and Scumbardi, and the rest,

who draft based on statistics, and maybe a little video.

 

Then the guys they drafted get to the NFL, like Robieski, and wimp out. Prima donnas like Braylon

and Winslow never "get it" team wise, and for years they kept ignoring the offensive line, and as much

as I don't want to ruin my breakfast, they drafted Junkin, the "mad dog in a meat market" whatever,

and that 4th round pick linebacker that Hoorta referred to, who never even got to the

Browns because of legal trouble.

 

That's where the Browns were for years - stupid ass talent choices that didn't pan out, again and again and again.

 

The Browns finally have a nice core of starting talent, and they still keep firing head coaches despite

not having quite enough talent to win with injuries to Hoyer, Lewis and whoever it it has been.

 

Teams that draft the college players who are smart, tough, love the game and are great additions

to the locker room with solid work eithic, do well. Teams like the Browns, keep drafting worse than

half the guys on this board could have done.

 

Drafting based on media hype, stats and all just ignores what is critical - drafting players who

are hungry, and have enough character to work hard, play hard, and be great additions to

the team on and off the field. One of the Seahawks even said it in an interview - the Seahawks

draft the same kind of guys to make a team.

 

Mistakes are made, sure. But the Browns have upgraded their talent appraisal more intelligently.

More needs to be done.

 

You draft a player, you need to look at the heart and mind of the player - because those things

drive everything else. If the Browns had done that, they would have picked Reed over Green.

They would have picked Tomlinson over Warren. If a player doesn't have the heart for the game,

pretty much says that they won't really take that next step up to the NFL. Just like freakin Robieski,

and so many others.

[DownSouthKC]

[quote name="Tim Couch Pulls Out" post="384128" timestamp="

 

He was a career backup who flamed out in Arizona, then put together two decent games here against two defenses starting backup and nickel cornerbacks. Let's not proclaim him to be anything else.

 

...

 

I would. And I would take Bortles. And then Davante Adams. And then Louchiez Purifoy in the second. And Andre Williams in the third. And then I would take Boyd in the fourth.

 

Well you were making sense and then you said you would trade make that trade to move up to 1 to get Bortles.

[Westside Steve]

Who believes the Texans will go quarterback with the number one pick?

 

Let's say we believe them and they are focused on Johnny Manziel. Okay.

We give up two first-round picks and our best hope at a successful quarterback.

 

Of course some may hope that last season was a flash in the pan and Brian Hoyer sucks.

 

Or you may roll the dice that Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell are actually bonafide starters.

 

Or you might risk starting Johnny football on day one. He will be playing with the same team that Weeden and Campbell had to work with last year.

 

Now take note of the fact that our defense lost us many games last year. I forget the exact number but I think it's 8, that we were either tied or ahead and lost.

 

The cardiac arrest kids.

 

Unless there is a miracle on the defensive side of the ball you must then assume that Johnny football will put up enough numbers as a rookie to compensate for that.

 

 

WSS

[lodilobo]

Yeah...good idea. Trade the only qb that the team responded to since 1999, along with our other draft picks to pick a Colt McCoy clone first overall. Yep...that will insure that we'll get the first pick in 2015, too. That way we can screw all these #1 draft picks up, and continue with our tradition. IDIOTS!!

[hoorta]

Bold text negates your entire argument about waiting to draft a QB. It works both ways, and the majority of the time, it's better to choose a QB early, rather than wait and rely on guys like Frye and McCoy.

 

Common sense is hard to drive through to an old and stubborn man like yourself. Even when you're wrong, you'd never admit it because you can keep typing the same thing 100 different ways until you convince yourself you're still right.

 

For the record, I like Blake Bortles and Teddy B, not Manziel, you stupid motherfucker

 

As Cal said, you're missing my main point. Not where you draft,it's HOW you draft. He did jog my memory on how badly the Browns have missed- not only in the first round, but in the second and third. Those are the "premium picks" and the Browns have generally drafted turds there of late.

 

The Aaron Rodgers thing was a fluke, Tom Brady was a fluke, Richard Sherman was a fluke. The Browns had an end of the road Trent Dilfer at qb, nice time to start thinking about the future, no?

 

Oh, and incidentally the year before (though some here don't like his off-field antics) I was screaming for the Browns to take Ben Rothlisberger instead of Kellen Winslow. Butch Davis couldn't draft enough guys from Miami, most of which turned out to be major busts.

 

Missed out on two stud qbs, a HOF RB & safety - shit drafting my friend- you want to refute that?

 

Bortles & Brigewater I can live with MIke- and I'm actually slightly warming to Manziel- just no dumb ass trade up- one of the three is certain to be there, though I have doubts about all of them.

[Shep]

I wonder how many teams that draft in the top 10 just about every year have gone since 1999 without drafting a top 10 quarterback? That's like 15 drafts ago.

 

Generally when you suck, it means you don't have a quarterback. And you should draft the best one you can because without a great one, nothing else much matters.

 

THAT'S the Browns biggest problem. They've had corners and centers and RBs and WRs and pass rushers and just about everything else... but never a great QB.

 

Also wonder if we're last in Passer Rating over that time. We have to be in the bottom few.

[Westside Steve]

So which one is a great quarterback? I say draft him!

 

WSS

[RoyceRolls]

Yeah...good idea. Trade the only qb that the team responded to since 1999, along with our other draft picks to pick a Colt McCoy clone first overall. Yep...that will insure that we'll get the first pick in 2015, too. That way we can screw all these #1 draft picks up, and continue with our tradition. IDIOTS!!

 

how is Manziel a McCoy clone? Manziel has a much better arm and better mobility. While I agree that trading up to land him would be questionable at best, if this FO believes they have to trade up to land 'their guy', regardless of who it may be, then they have to make the trade.

[miktoxic]

They've had corners and centers and RBs and WRs and pass rushers and just about everything else... but never a great QB.

 

since '99 how many corners and RBs and WRs and pass rushers have worked out?

 

i could name all on one hand and 2 or 3 are on this team now. so it's not just QB.

 

terrible scouting and drafting since 1999.

 

sounds like a bad beer slogan.

[BadNewsBrowns]

The truth is this organization has been a shit tornado since 99 so you really can't go back and claim we should have drafted so and so. Chances are if we'd had taken Roethlisberger and Pittsburgh taken Winslow then Roelisberger would probably be an unemployed never was and Winslow might be considered one of the greats.

 

It varies by position but most of the time it takes an exceptional player to transcend a failing organizations limitations.

 

It's a team game, not the NBA, most successful draft picks are put into the right scenario the right system with a strong supporting cast to supplement their talents.

 

Our high selections have been at a disadvantage off the bat since 99 because this organization is a shit storm, they could be golden but sooner or later they'll be swallowed up in this storm and covered in shit.