Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!

[BaconHound]

Didn't read all 9 pages but am I the only one who thinks that there isn't a single "it" guy at the QB position in this draft? I'd love to see an upgrade at WR, RB, CB and LB then take a chance on a "system" guy.

[Erie Dawg]

Didn't read all 9 pages but am I the only one who thinks that there isn't a single "it" guy at the QB position in this draft? I'd love to see an upgrade at WR, RB, CB and LB then take a chance on a "system" guy.

No a couple of us have been quite flaccid over the talent levels as well.

[slowburn]

No a couple of us have been quite flaccid over the talent levels as well.

lol

[cuwoohio]

I thought I was the only one here that liked/want's Manziel...I really think not only does the kid have star power...I really think...that if he plays his cards right could be a great imfluence on this team with his type of swagger...Seems to have the I.Q. necessarry...its just...will "everything else" between his ears catchup/lineup so to speak..but..Im willing to gamble on him...

 

Manziel has what Brady, Peyton Manning, and Luck have; Football smarts. He also feels the pressure without being able to see it, and he knows where everyone on the field is, and is able to move well enough to find a lane to throw in. His football IQ is way ahead of his experience level, and he's a born leader, with enough swagger to be a little cocky. I'm pretty sure he'll enter the draft next year, and the Browns will have to make it happen. He's the real deal.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Manziel has what Brady, Peyton Manning, and Luck have; Football smarts. He also feels the pressure without being able to see it, and he knows where everyone on the field is, and is able to move well enough to find a lane to throw in. His football IQ is way ahead of his experience level, and he's a born leader, with enough swagger to be a little cocky. I'm pretty sure he'll enter the draft next year, and the Browns will have to make it happen. He's the real deal.

Thanks, Johnny Football.

[Browns149]

 

Manziel has what Brady, Peyton Manning, and Luck have; Football smarts. He also feels the pressure without being able to see it, and he knows where everyone on the field is, and is able to move well enough to find a lane to throw in. His football IQ is way ahead of his experience level, and he's a born leader, with enough swagger to be a little cocky. I'm pretty sure he'll enter the draft next year, and the Browns will have to make it happen. He's the real deal.

I'm not sure I would trade up to get him, but if he's there when we pick, I would take him

 

Watching Johnny play in college...................he's way better then any draft pick or Free Agent QB we have had since 1999

[Hunt Daddy]

We're going Hundley or Mariota unless we can con Jacksonville into giving us Teddy B.

[Shep]

I still say Mariota, Boyd, or Hundley. Mariota is making a serious push to lock in behind Bridgewater.

 

Here's a look at how deep this class really is. David Fales and the kid with the wild Italian name (Garrapola?) Don't even make the list. Everyone here could go in the first 2 rounds. That's a ton.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/10/2013_college_quarterback_repor.html

[miktoxic]

 

Manziel has what Brady, Peyton Manning, and Luck have; Football smarts. He also feels the pressure without being able to see it, and he knows where everyone on the field is, and is able to move well enough to find a lane to throw in. His football IQ is way ahead of his experience level, and he's a born leader, with enough swagger to be a little cocky. I'm pretty sure he'll enter the draft next year, and the Browns will have to make it happen. He's the real deal.

but he doesn't have what they have, height and a strong build. manziel is colt mccoy v2.0 with better legs.

 

he'll get demolished in the NFL.

[jcam222]

Didn't read all 9 pages but am I the only one who thinks that there isn't a single "it" guy at the QB position in this draft? I'd love to see an upgrade at WR, RB, CB and LB then take a chance on a "system" guy.

I agree. I would rather bring back Hoyer and draft a project buy in the 3rd to 4th round. Spend all of our higher picks on the right side of our Oline , WR and RB.

[cuwoohio]

but he doesn't have what they have, height and a strong build. manziel is colt mccoy v2.0 with better legs.

 

he'll get demolished in the NFL.

 

Drew Brees

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Drew Brees

I'll wait for you to name another.

 

Go ahead, say Russell Wilson.

 

 

Then.........

[Shep]

but he doesn't have what they have, height and a strong build. manziel is colt mccoy v2.0 with better legs.

 

he'll get demolished in the NFL.

Yikes. Manziel does everything about three times better than McCoy. Manziel is Showtime. McCoy is nap time.

 

Browns should subjugate the QB position and draft around it. That is just a brilliant plan. You out your highest chips at QB. That's where you want your cap, your highest pick, your best player. You don't want a doughnut team. Everything else gets easier once you have The Guy.

 

Browns will draft their next QB no lower than 6th next year, and still easily add a back, WR, another corner, and a right side blocker. We almost have to sign three or four serious free agents and we have a second, two thirds, and two fourths to maneuver into a couple seconds and a third.

 

That's six or seven big adds in addition to the QB.

[cuwoohio]

]I'll wait for you to name another.

Go ahead, say Russell Wilson.

Then.......

 

 

Don't need another, and Wilson isn't in that class

Height is not an issue with a mobile QB.

[hoorta]

Yikes. Manziel does everything about three times better than McCoy. Manziel is Showtime. McCoy is nap time.

 

Browns should subjugate the QB position and draft around it. That is just a brilliant plan. You out your highest chips at QB. That's where you want your cap, your highest pick, your best player. You don't want a doughnut team. Everything else gets easier once you have The Guy.

 

Browns will draft their next QB no lower than 6th next year, and still easily add a back, WR, another corner, and a right side blocker. We almost have to sign three or four serious free agents and we have a second, two thirds, and two fourths to maneuver into a couple seconds and a third.

 

That's six or seven big adds in addition to the QB.

 

To a point I agree. I'm just more cautious with my bargaining chips than you are. Care to repeat the Deadskins giving up the ranch to draft RG III? Dumb, & dumber. Griffin blows out another knee, and Washington is f**ked for the next 5 years. I will guarantee you one thing- if six qbs get drafted in the first round- three of them will bust. And don't give me crap that "it's so much more scientific now". Gabbert, Ponder, Tebow, Jafattus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Weeden, and Brady Quinn are living proof that's BS.

 

BTW, Manzel has the Heisman curse working against him. Gino Toretta, Tebow, Leinert, Crouch, Jason White, Troy Smith, Chris Weinke- wow, what a bunch of losers.

[BadNewsBrowns]

Care to repeat the Deadskins giving up the ranch to draft RG III? Dumb, & dumber..

 

Some bad luck and poor utilization but to get a franchise QB that's a risk I think you have to take. Especially in the situation we are in now similar to the mid / early 2000's Steelers being only a QB away from a legit team.

 

Just not sold on there being a real top notch QB in this up coming draft, then again I'm not too savvy on that sorta thing only time will tell.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

]I'll wait for you to name another.

Go ahead, say Russell Wilson.

Then.......

 

 

Don't need another, and Wilson isn't in that class

Height is not an issue with a mobile QB.

 

Yes, your one example disproves the rule.

 

How could we be so blind?

[hoorta]

 

Some bad luck and poor utilization but to get a franchise QB that's a risk I think you have to take. Especially in the situation we are in now similar to the mid / early 2000's Steelers being only a QB away from a legit team.

 

Just not sold on there being a real top notch QB in this up coming draft, then again I'm not too savvy on that sorta thing only time will tell.

 

 

Yeah, and Rothlisberger fell to the Steelers @ #9. Two first round picks? OK. Three firsts and a second? You're out of your damn mind. Go look at the draft value chart and tell me I'm wrong as to what Washington stupidly did.

 

& That's exactly it- I like what I've seen of Bridgewater- (he's no Luck or Elway fer sure BTW) but the Browns will need MORE than a RG III deal to move up that far.

 

IMHO the Browns are exactly in the position the Steelers were before Big Bum, or KC last year- get your franchise qb LAST. and no need to throw away multiple drafts to get him either.

[miktoxic]

Yikes. Manziel does everything about three times better than McCoy. Manziel is Showtime. McCoy is nap time.

 

Browns should subjugate the QB position and draft around it. That is just a brilliant plan. You out your highest chips at QB. That's where you want your cap, your highest pick, your best player. You don't want a doughnut team. Everything else gets easier once you have The Guy.

 

Browns will draft their next QB no lower than 6th next year, and still easily add a back, WR, another corner, and a right side blocker. We almost have to sign three or four serious free agents and we have a second, two thirds, and two fourths to maneuver into a couple seconds and a third.

 

That's six or seven big adds in addition to the QB.

 

hey i agree, except like hoorta i'm a little bit more cautious with my picks than most GMs seem to be lately. can we wait until the end of the year to give this greater discussion? who knows we might be picking sixth? i agree you've got to have that 'guy' but they are all just one big crapshoot. luck was the only QB out of these big name number ones that looks like he can actually lead a team. rg3 is lucky he got endorsement deals cuz as someone eluded to he's one more hit away from being out again......maybe for good. stafford is hurt all the time, freeman is traded.

 

where's the beef? you like murray. you think he won't be there @ 6?

 

i'd trade the second number 1 and maybe a scrub to new england today for ryan mallet. that's just me. i think the dude is solid as is just sitting there learning from the ultimate pro himself.

 

and to your first comment: sure manziel is showtime (in college) but he'll be nothing but flatlined (in the nfl).

[Westside Steve]

 

 

 

 

AZ and MN are far less likely, unless they really like one of the QB's coming out

 

 

 

And why would they? It doesn't seem as though there's anybody worth more than a second or third.

WSS

[cuwoohio]

Yes, your one example disproves the rule.

 

How could we be so blind?

 

My bad. I didn't know it was actually a "rule" that a QB had to be 6'4 to be a smart QB.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

My bad. I didn't know it was actually a "rule" that a QB had to be 6'4 to be a smart QB.

 

I'm not talking about them being smart.

 

I'm talking about them being successful.

 

The stats point to bigger QB's being successful. Of course there are a few exceptions...but generally speaking, bigger QB's tend to have more success. It's a hell of a lot easier to find a tall, successful QB than it is to find a short one. That's not because they're always better, but because shorter QB's tend to be phased out of that position early on in their careers. High school and college coaches are going to nearly always try and plug in the bigger guy and move the smaller guy to slot receiver or DB. It's not fair, but it tends to be the case.

 

Of course, as I said, there are exceptions.

 

I didn't know it was a "rule" that a QB had to be under 6'4 to be considered smart. Not all tall QB's are Derek Anderson.

[Shep]

Height thing does seem in flux. Brees used to be a total anomaly but he towers over Russell Wilson. RG3 (like Hoyer) is 6'2", only one inch taller than Brees. If we figure out how to keep a mobile QB healthy and alive, you will see some smaller, quicker guys playing the position, I think.

 

Seems like there won't be that one 6'4" prototype.

[cuwoohio]

Height thing does seem in flux. Brees used to be a total anomaly but he towers over Russell Wilson. RG3 (like Hoyer) is 6'2", only one inch taller than Brees. If we figure out how to keep a mobile QB healthy and alive, you will see some smaller, quicker guys playing the position, I think.

 

Seems like there won't be that one 6'4" prototype.

 

Exactly......the mobility will compensate for the lack of height. They don't have to be able to see over the line, they will

create an open lane to throw in, and in some cases, run in. The taller examples I was giving (Manning, Brady) were there

for their ability to find the open recievers, and call the right audibles, and avoid the pressure no matter where it comes from.

That is the ability Manziel has over some of the other college QBs that will be available in next years draft.

[BadNewsBrowns]

 

 

Yeah, and Rothlisberger fell to the Steelers @ #9. Two first round picks? OK. Three firsts and a second? You're out of your damn mind. Go look at the draft value chart and tell me I'm wrong as to what Washington stupidly did.

 

& That's exactly it- I like what I've seen of Bridgewater- (he's no Luck or Elway fer sure BTW) but the Browns will need MORE than a RG III deal to move up that far.

 

IMHO the Browns are exactly in the position the Steelers were before Big Bum, or KC last year- get your franchise qb LAST. and no need to throw away multiple drafts to get him either.

 

I think that draft value chart is pretty much irrelevent anymore with the new rookie wage scales and premiums on QB's.

 

And yes the Skins did overpay for Griffin but it's easy to say that now that he was injured and they aren't doing as well this season. Last year when he was playing like the second coming of Vick with some actual QB abilities the trade was looking a lot more in their favor. Draft picks are only numbers it's about the player you take with it, before we traded Richardson say the Skins were to offer us Griffin for Weeden,Richardson Schwartz and next years 1#, something similar to what they paid for him pick wise, you don't think the Browns would have made that trade immediately?

 

I don't know if there is any QB in next years draft that warrants a blockbuster deal similar to that, I think we can stay put and still get our guy.You have to like what we've seen from Banner so far trade wise,he's the guy doing the screwing and is 2for2 in my book with his trades, you won't see any ridiculous deals like the Minnesota trade to move up one spot. I really hope they don't sell the farm for a QB because we are loaded with picks, just hope they aren't all Leon McFadden's.

[dab7291993]

I'm definitely on board with building a great team before getting a QB.

 

I'm just not that big on drafting a QB that high either, unless it's Teddy.

 

AJ McCarron in the 3rd would be a steal, and if we can't get Teddy I don't want anyone ranked above him.

 

<E> Didn't we trade for Dion Lewis? That really didn't work out, but it's no one's fault.

[Tour2ma]

Agree... I still have a soft spot in my heart (or head) for McCarron...

 

Height thing does seem in flux. Brees used to be a total anomaly but he towers over Russell Wilson. RG3 (like Hoyer) is 6'2", only one inch taller than Brees. If we figure out how to keep a mobile QB healthy and alive, you will see some smaller, quicker guys playing the position, I think.

 

Seems like there won't be that one 6'4" prototype.

 

Even tall QBs need to find throwing lanes. Right, Wheezy? Well, maybe not Osweiler...

 

Shorter QBs just slide in the pocket to find them.

 

I don't know if there is any QB in next years draft that warrants a blockbuster deal similar to that, I think we can stay put and still get our guy. I really hope they don't sell the farm for a QB because we are loaded with picks, just hope they aren't all Leon McFadden's.

 

I think that draft value chart is pretty much irrelevent anymore with the new rookie wage scales and premiums on QB's.

 

Agree... not yet wowed, but like a couple (and still looking). So if the draft ends up being preceived as QB deep as some of the current hype is promoting it, then hopefully the right one falls our way.

 

And agree as well on the chart... With the rookie cap in place the value of the top picks is much greater than before. Top picks are so much more affordable that sticking with a high pick is not the nearly the risk it once was.

[Shep]

The rule of thumb in team building is simple: If you don't have a great quarterback, you aren't relevant and you get one just as soon as possible. It's the hardest piece to acquire and you don't pass on it with plans to circle back for one later.

 

Again, as Chuckie and many others have said: Once you have your guy at QB, everything else seems easy. Gruden says it's the biggest lesson he's learned over the years. He makes your OL better, your receivers better, and all that makes your running game and pass rush better. Nobody in all of team sports has so much influence on everything else.

 

The Browns have a shitload of assets with which to acquire key upgrades next offseason, namely TEN draft picks and about $30 million that almost forces them to be more aggressive than last year. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to be stingy in trading up to get the quarterback they really want because it'll cost them a draft pick. They have more than they can use on a team already filled with a lot of (very) young talent.

 

Let's say the Browns draft 8th and they really want Mariota. They feel like they can get him at #3. They trade the 26th pick to accomplish that, maybe with that extra fourth rounder tossed in, too.

 

Who really cares? The Browns still have a high 2nd round pick, two thirds, and a fourth, not to mention the rest of the draft for depth. They can trade back into round 2 with that high third and a 4th, giving them 2 seconds, a third, and several free agent chips to play (probably 4 serious guys). They can add a WR, a RB, a rightside blocker, a corner, and more... in addition to Mariota.

 

Frankly, if this team ONLY had at least "good" QB play, like we'd get from Brian Hoyer? 9 wins would be reasonable. Really good QB play? 11. We have really good corners and pass rushers, one of the best left tackles in the game, a very nice pair of ILBs, a legit #1 WR in Gordon and a Pro Bowl TE in Cameron.

 

The difference between the Browns and winning teams isn't at guard or RB or even WR. It's at QB. And the team has every intention of drafting one way up high which is what that other first round pick is earmarked for. So we can keep talking "if" but it's a waste of time. The real conversation is "who."

 

At RB, it's Dion, Obie, and a high third round pick. At WR, we could add a guy with that 2nd round pick. Free agents on the OL, CB, and another WR, all serious guys. I could also see a TE high in the 4th.

[Tour2ma]

IF they want Mariota... stay tuned...

 

Meanwhile couple very good games to take a hard look at Mssrs. Hundley and Boyd this weekend.

 

(9) UCLA @ (13) Stanford --- Sat 10/19 14:30 EDT --- The lower ranked Cardinal is favored by 6 at home.

 

(5) Florida St @ (3) Clemson --- Sat 10-19 19:00 EDT --- The higher ranked Tigers are a 3 point dog at home!

 

[calfoxwc]

The rule of thumb in team building is simple: If you don't have a great quarterback, you aren't relevant and you get one just as soon as possible. It's the hardest piece to acquire and you don't pass on it with plans to circle back for one later Shep

*****************************************

It depends on when you start building. When they drafted Couch, they didn't have the team

around him to succeed. Even Eli Manning struggled, and there was a lot of talk that he may have been a bust

back then,

 

It's no different than when Archie Manning went to the Saints. He got the hell beaten out of him.

 

QB's get ruined by being picked to a team that can't protect them, doesn't have the talent around them to succeed.

Give them enough talent around them, and you can draft a Joe Montana in the 3rd round to make it take off.

But now is the time for the Browns to draft a qb. This class, to me, seems large qb-wise, but I don't

see that there is one qb to move up to get. In fact, depending on which qb they want, they could draft

Lee, wr, with their first pick, and move up from their second first rounder, and still get their qb.

Or not.

Mariota may end up being the first qb taken, and that isn't taking anything away from Bridgewater or Boyd - who knows?

The Browns need that Randall Cobb/Hines Ward kind of wr, regardless who the qb ends up being.

But, with Hoyer hopefully being the starter next year, they need to get that future qb in camp, and let

him learn the game for at least a half year, and the new kid takes over.

The big difference is, now, that the Browns have a staff that really, really knows what they are doing,

and what talent fits what they need. Whoever the Browns draft next year, if they spend some picks

to move up for that one guy, it's because it will be the right decision.

Offhand, Bridgewater and Mariota seem to be the top two qb's. It's way, way early.