TRICH traded to colts

[Mark O]

Any Anti-Trent bias that comes from me is a direct result of certain "Browns Fans" who are now claiming to be done as Browns fans as a result of this trade.

 

You know who you are..

[The Goat]

I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.

 

Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.

 

The media "experts" are idiots.

 

I sincerely do understand the feeling of a lost season. I had Saban bail on us, Ricky retire on us, watched our management team pick Culpepper over Brees, and dealt with Sparano for a few years.

 

Things get better. Stuff happens (like, say, your arch-rival hiring Sparano as an offensive coordinator).

 

Hang tight.

[JAFBF]

I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.

 

Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.

 

I have seen posts elsewhere where Browns fans are shocked and delighted that we actually got a 1st round pick for Trent.

 

I've also seen the total shock and despair from this trade.

 

 

All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.

Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?

I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.

 

Just something to think about.

[manbearpig]

Yep i bekieve I wlll be drinking a few while I listen to this next game.................

[Mark O]

 

All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.

Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?

I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.

 

Just something to think about.

 

Jerome FREAKING Harrison once rushed for nearly 300 yards with a shit ass Brady Quinn at QB.

 

What does that tell you..

[Spectralcow]

Here's a question: Did the new management bring new scouts/evaluators with them? Because, to me, a HUGE part of the Browns' inability to draft properly, for YEARS now, has been an inability to properly identify talent. So, as I'm trying to look forward to this next draft now, I have to HOPE that the guys who are looking at the players to be picked are somehow HUGELY better than what we've had so far. (I do know that HCs and coordinators and management are a large part of the decision making, but there's gotta be someone at the more preliminary levels, right?)

[miktoxic]

 

Actually, it seems to me like QBs are easy to get if you know where to get one. Russell Wilson seems to be working out okay, as does Collin Kaepernick, but we drafted Weeden. My point is that the problem with the Browns hasn't been a lack of picks, it's been not picking the correct players. So forgive me if I don't think another 1st round pick is a great deal for the Browns. I don't see recognize it as a guarantee (or even a good chance) that we'll get anything better than Richardson.

 

 

 

I was around for that and no one that I remember thought that. Everyone that I recall thought it was crazy what they got for a RB who was already starting to age. Besides, this is all irrelevant since it is not even close to comparable. The Cowboys made out huge because they got a ton of great picks and used them well. The Browns got ONE mid- to late-first round pick for Richardson. Now, MAYBE that player will be the greatest player ever to play football. But, with the Browns picking, there's about the same chance that the same thing could happen with a late round pick or an undrafted FA. I'd have rather seen the Browns get multiple picks later than to see them get one first rounder that they may waste.

 

2 of the best and smartest posts from a newbie ever.

 

can we hire better scouts or something? yeah mingo looks like a good pick but where's mcfadden and the rest of last year's picks?

[miktoxic]

 

The media "experts" are idiots.

 

I sincerely do understand the feeling of a lost season. I had Saban bail on us, Ricky retire on us, watched our management team pick Culpepper over Brees, and dealt with Sparano for a few years.

 

Things get better. Stuff happens (like, say, your arch-rival hiring Sparano as an offensive coordinator).

 

Hang tight.

 

dude that offensive coordinator now with the jets is going to beat you twice this year.

[JAFBF]

Here's a question: Did the new management bring new scouts/evaluators with them? Because, to me, a HUGE part of the Browns' inability to draft properly, for YEARS now, has been an inability to properly identify talent. So, as I'm trying to look forward to this next draft now, I have to HOPE that the guys who are looking at the players to be picked are somehow HUGELY better than what we've had so far. (I do know that HCs and coordinators and management are a large part of the decision making, but there's gotta be someone at the more preliminary levels, right?)

 

Yes.

 

This last Draft was the last Scouted by the previous Regime's Scouts.

 

This FO is using all new Scouts at this point.

[Spectralcow]

 

I have seen posts elsewhere where Browns fans are shocked and delighted that we actually got a 1st round pick for Trent.

 

I've also seen the total shock and despair from this trade.

 

 

All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.

Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?

I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.

 

Just something to think about.

 

I never really expected him to break a really long run. He's not really that sort of back, is he?

 

I just saw Banner on television. He says he completely understands the criticism and skepticism for now. His hope is that it will eventually be proven wrong. I respect and appreciate that he made the statement, but my feeling is that you don't make that statement if you think everyone is on-board with it. So, there is an official acknowledgement that the trade may not look that great from the Browns end.

 

The idea, then, is "I realize that this looks a little shaky, but just trust me on this, I have an idea." Which is fine, except that I get tired of hearing it year after year. At some point, I'd like people to stop having new ideas and start finding ways to make the team work without starting over from scratch AGAIN (and then failing, AGAIN). I kind of feel like it's a maneuver to buy time instead of prioritizing the improvement of the team. "If I claim that NOTHING was right when I got here, then I can scrap at least one season and claim its not my fault." Instead, I'd like for once for someone to come in and say, "Okay, a lot of this is junk BUT, there's this and that and this... that I think I can work with if I add a few things."

[Hunt Daddy]

So. Greg Little for starting RB?

[Frenchie]

What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.

[browns23]

It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.

 

In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.

[Spectralcow]

What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.

 

I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.

[JAFBF]

 

I never really expected him to break a really long run. He's not really that sort of back, is he?

 

I just saw Banner on television. He says he completely understands the criticism and skepticism for now. His hope is that it will eventually be proven wrong. I respect and appreciate that he made the statement, but my feeling is that you don't make that statement if you think everyone is on-board with it. So, there is an official acknowledgement that the trade may not look that great from the Browns end.

 

The idea, then, is "I realize that this looks a little shaky, but just trust me on this, I have an idea." Which is fine, except that I get tired of hearing it year after year. At some point, I'd like people to stop having new ideas and start finding ways to make the team work without starting over from scratch AGAIN (and then failing, AGAIN). I kind of feel like it's a maneuver to buy time instead of prioritizing the improvement of the team. "If I claim that NOTHING was right when I got here, then I can scrap at least one season and claim its not my fault." Instead, I'd like for once for someone to come in and say, "Okay, a lot of this is junk BUT, there's this and that and this... that I think I can work with if I add a few things."

 

Oh, if he wasn't supposed to be able to break the long run, then he we definitely WAY over paid for him.

 

A #3 pick RB should be able to beat 7/8/9 in the box and bust through the Secondary.

 

Trent pretty much did this in College . . . but that was College, this is the NFL.

 

Shelf life for an NFL RB isn't all that long these days either with all the punishment deal/take.

 

 

I'm going to keep an eye on Trent out of curiosity more than anything else, but it should be interesting.

[JAFBF]

 

I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.

 

Chud wanted to come home and Coach his Hometown favorite Team - that's the biggie.

 

Until you actually get your hands in the nuts and bolts, it's not always easy to see what you've got.

I think that's probably a part of it too - he needed to see what he could salvage with the changes in schemes.

 

So far, it looks like the D is coming along well.

The O has turned into an unexpected nightmare though if you ask me.

[Spectralcow]

It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.

 

In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.

 

It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.

 

Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.

I was against the Trent acquisition from the get-go, but I also have him in my fantasy league and I believe he is a good man as well as a good player.

 

If we had taken him later in the draft, I would have been ecstatic. I thought taking him at 4 was a bit too high and trading up to 3 was definitely not the best move.

 

In this league, you can find dynamic backs outside of the first round (see: Alfred Morris, DeMarco Murray, LeSean McCoy, Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles, etc.)

 

Trent put up solid numbers for us (3.5 YPC, 1100+ Yds, 11 TDs), but he wasn't a true playmaker. He could grind out the tough yards and he had some fantastic runs, don't get me wrong. I mostly enjoyed watching him play. But I never got the feeling that I was watching someone truly special whenever he touched the ball like I get with AP, Megatron, Rodgers, et al, and his stats back that up. Trent's good, not great.

 

To be taken that early, you have to take the league by storm. He just didn't do it, and that's behind a better line than he'll be behind in Indy.

 

If the Browns take that pick and get a dynamic, playmaking WR, CB or QB and then pick up a RB in rounds 2-4 that puts up numbers similar to Trent's...this will be a big win for our FO.

 

More often than not, the schemes and supporting cast make the player. There have been countless players that have fizzled out and never amounted to anything because they were with the wrong team at the wrong time. Take Shady McCoy and put him in Arizona, he won't be nearly as effective. Take Alfred Morris and put him in New Orleans, he doesn't have the same effect. Take anybody from New England and put them anywhere else, they won't be nearly as good. Trent just was put into the wrong situation in Cleveland.

 

There are some players that transcend that. Megatron in Jacksonville is still Megatron. AP in Dallas is still AP. Barry Sanders in Cleveland is still Barry Sanders. A RB taken with the third overall pick should be grouped with the latter, not the former, but Trent finds himself on the wrong list (in my opinion).

 

A 4th round RB in the right system for his talents is just as effective as a 1st round RB in the wrong system.

[listercat]

I am stunned....listening to Mary Kay Cabot mention that no one not brought in by Banner is safe...not Thomas...no one

 

I work second shift so I am just getting up to speed....and am stunned

 

The year is fucking over and it is not even October yet...

[FairHooker11]

 

I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.

yea but by your estimation it seems like 20/20 hindsight

 

I dont mind Chud making this evaluation and pulling the trigger...

 

He (indirectly) did that a few years back as o coodinator when Frye was traded - DA started and well., got our hopes up again for a while at least?

[Zombo]

Hoyer -Rainey- Bess

 

Let's do this.

 

Score 24 points per week and we are in the playoffs with this defense.

 

One Time Baby

 

Z

[nickers]

Hoyer -Rainey- Bess

 

Let's do this.

 

Score 24 points per week and we are in the playoffs with this defense.

 

One Time Baby

 

Z

 

LOL...Gotta love your spirit and fire Zombo...dont ever change!

[Cbus Brownie]

Fuckin factory of sadness.

 

Some of you ppl are either blinded by bias or are complete morons.

 

TR was a workhorse back that is easily a top 15 back. He doesn't have break out speed, but how many backs do? He has been running behind LITERALLY THE WORST Oline in the league. Who in the league could run much better than 3.5yds/carry behind the likes of Cousins, Greco, and Schwartz? ****birds chirping****

 

So we trade a serviceable back that would be a great tandom with Lewis when healthy, for a wild card mid to late 1st rd pick.

 

What prospects are out there that were targeting? I don't see this is a great draft. Our pick (likely top 3) WILL NOT have the franchise QB we're looking for. Bridgewater, Boyd, Manziel....these guys aren't the answer for us IMO. So......we're going to take another QB that's not the right fit and gamble on a late 1st rd WR/RB/OL etc.

 

We only needed a QB, another WR for little, at least 1 more OG, and another CB. now we need another workhorse back to compliment Lewis.

 

I don't like this trade, not going try to spin it positive. It's bullshit wishful thinking, at best.

 

Frustrated.

[Spectralcow]

JAFBF brought up an interesting point regarding scheme versus personnel. Perhaps that's part of the problem I'm having here. I've never been a fan of the philosophy "To hell with the players we have, I'm running the scheme that _I_ like the best!" That seems to me like it results in exactly what we see with the Browns - a lot of turnover and starting over, with no realized success. "No good WRs? Who cares! I think 5 WR sets look cool, so that's what I'm running. Get those talented Tight Ends off my team! I don't use them!"

 

What's wrong with using what's already there and improving it instead of scrapping it all and starting over? That's part of why the Patriots organization is so great, I think. For a long time there, they didn't throw to their TEs like crazy. But then when they found some great TEs, they did. They didn't kick them off the team and say, "They're not really right for our scheme!" They changed their passing game to fit their personnel.

 

I know a lot of you don't agree with it, and obviously Chud doesn't either, but (the specific Trent example aside) I am just wearing of all the "starting over from scratch", and I would like to see someone inherit a team, look at what they already have, then improve on that. That's just me though, and not at all specific to this Trent situation. In the Trent situation, I would have been okay with them trading him if they would have just gotten more for him (or even a greater number of picks at a later round and then used them well).

[browns23]

 

It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.

That's not what I was saying I was just pointing out everyone for some reason thinks we should have gotten more, including the people outside of the situation, when really we got a fair return for a below average (statistically) running back in a passing league.

[Spectralcow]

That's not what I was saying I was just pointing out everyone for some reason thinks we should have gotten more, including the people outside of the situation, when really we got a fair return for a below average (statistically) running back in a passing league.

 

Does one statistic make it "statistically"? I'm assuming you're talking about YPC, because his other rushing stats were above average. 9th in rushing in a 32 team league is not statistically below average.

 

The "passing league" thing I keep hearing over and over is interesting. Anyone know where Flacco finished in the passing yardage or attempts last year? Seems I heard somewhere that his team had a pretty decent year...

[Zombo]

We can win this division 2013. Hoyer is an upgrade, running backs are disposable.

 

Let's do this. Pussies be damned.

 

Z

[Spectralcow]

Carson Palmer had a passer rating of 80.5 in 2011 and got traded to the Raiders for a 1st and 2nd round pick. That second round pick was conditional, and would have been another 1st round pick if the Raiders had made the playoffs in 2012.

[Waiting for next year]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A front office that "GET"S IT"

 

It does no good to have a 500hp twin turbo if all you have to put it in is a Yugo. This line is a Yugo...it sucks...it can't pass block, it can't run block. The Browns, NOT EVEN IN HINDSITE, should never have drafted Richardson and Weeden, we knew it then we certinally know it now. The Browns passed on all pro Matt Kaili and future all pro Chance Womack. Thomas,Greko, Mack, Womack, Kaili. Who cares who the running back is...even Weeden could stay upright behind that line. Maybe with the mistakes made with Quinn and McCoy the Browns would have a wideout who can CATCH THE BALL. It's funny how Greg Little develops "short arms" accross the middle. Our line has mastered the LOOKOUT BLOCK. They miss their block turn and yell " LOOK OUT WEEDEN!!!!". The average life of a NFL running back is less than 5 years. Richardson was already damaged goods BEFORE he was drafted, and was damaged further last year behind a better line. Remember the Browns passed on Adrian Peterson and no one keeps bringing that up because of Joe Thomas, even Peterson couldn't run behind this line.The longest average career is held by offensive linemen so doesn't it stand to reason to build your team from the front back? You never see linemen buy the running back a Rolex when he makes all pro or gets the big contract do you? It's alway the other way around. You never see the O line take the QB out for dinner if he keeps them sackless do you? That's always the other way around too

 

The only fault I see in the trade is I would have like to see a 3rd or 4th round pick if the Colts finish with say the 20th or lower pick..Last year if I recall they picked 24th. This will go down as either the trade that started the turnaround or the one that finished the franchise for good. I don't live in Cleveland, never have, so I'm a Brown's fan by CHOICE not by where I live and I've watched the media and you fans run the greatest coach of this generation, sure fire Hall of Fame's Bill Belichick (189-101-0 18-8 playoffs, 3 Super Bowls) out of town but kneel at the alter of Sam (47-50-0 0-2 playoffs) and think Marty ( 200-126-1, 5-13 playoffs)almost in the same light. You genuflect at the name Bernie(53-51-1) and think Brian (57-55-0)was great

 

Time to get over yourselves

[Tour2ma]

I'm stunned, but not unhappy...

 

You do realize the guys who picked Weeden and Richardson are fired right?

 

LOL... apparently not in many cases...

Biggest stunner of this entire thread was how many people think that the draft price paid for TR should have anything to do with what we got for him.

 

Trent Richardson was never worth the No. 3 overall pick. He didn't look the same this year... Indy is crazy if they think he's going to be able to run behind that o-line if he couldn't behind the Browns'

 

Really funny how many people are upset about this.

 

Agree, Mike... From what I've seen of Indy they lean towards zone blocking and TR has shown no aptitude to be the decisive, one-cut back you need there. However, he will catch more balls there. And miss his blitz pick ups to boot.

 

I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.

 

Let's see...

I'm offered my first HC job by the team I grew up rooting for...

Should I take it? or...

Should walk away from that because they are not destined for greatness five minutes after I sign...

Hmmmmmmm...

 

Lotta good posts there Cowboy, but that tweren't one of them.