osusev Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 good god legacy you cant be serious. You think we are not stealing because corps and countries are able to bribe a select few into enslaving or abusing their population? If a advanced culture arms 100 strong men with rusty ak-47 against spears in order to retain control and then brings in their own private military contractors what exactly do you think that is? wow justifying ecological disasters that corp KNOWINGLY fully realize they are doing because the limited knowledge of organized resistance and or governmental operations is ok and not stealing.... blood diamonds.....ok Debeers is banned in the united states as a monopoly and currently operates a HUGE private militia all over Africa..... so slavery was not wrong for countries because someone was able to bribe some of the indegenous population? I am the athiest and you are a christian right? where is your moral compass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 good god legacy you cant be serious. You think we are not stealing because corps and countries are able to bribe a select few into enslaving or abusing their population? So now world socialism is the goal? You'll have a problem getting your fellow lefties to move into mud huts but maybe Obammy can give a speech...? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sev, the FREAKIN POINT is... that Africa is destitute in many countries, many, many areas.... and government dole "enslaves" people to dependency. It has nothing to do with other countries going in there and getting natural resources out of there, which they have done, you think that is not by "permission" by whoever is the "government" now? It has nothing to do with the slave trade. Did you know that it was corrupt AFRICAN BLACKS who also were bringing AFRICAN BLACKS to other countries to be slaves? Intertribe fighting and oppression has been going on for how long now? The Peace Corps has been working to teach a lot of the poor to garden and farm for themselves. In some areas, that works. But all too often, government dole breeds depency and sloth. The African governments should have kicked out the diamond traders and foreign natural resource groups who treated their poverty stricken "employees" so poorly long ago. but as usual in this world, those in power live and eat like kings, while their populace suffers from poverty in the worst degree. But poverty and infighting goes on, and so does the dependency of the poor Africans who have not much choice, unless they can have gov's who will protect their FREEDOM and can get some land and equipment to do their own farming. Until then, whining that American farmers get assistance is ridiculous, depending on the weather, a whole LOT of farmers could be wiped out by too much debt and no income, causing them to not be able to fund the huge amount of $$$$ the next year to farm. Weather affects food production. The system has checks and balances in it to perpetuate the ability to farm. It has nothing to do with keeping Africans poor. Always the victimizing of themselves, and the rest of us and our country is the "bad guy". Every freakin time ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 wss where you turned to the conclusion that systematic socialism is what I was proposing is extremely offbase, Cal in that last post you where talking a awful lot about what governments in that continent should do and their responsibility for their people...... here is the problem.... if said government which i will refer to as X was developed and organized by colonialism and then with the subsequent world transition to capitalism is given option A which usually is we will help you initially if you give us all rights and access to your rescources you will be granted freedom and support. well like the trickle down theory that fails to take into account human corruption those influences know factually that they can corrupt those individuals and do so. Its not rocket science and people dont often like to hear they benefit from less than moral actions such as what is used in Africa. Diamonds.... oil... and tons of other minerals are extracted from that continent and we do prop up corps and policies that in fact do basically steal and poison from the local populace. I do blame personal and governmental responsibility on the locals, I am realistice enough to understand the allure of money and support and how it affects a majority of people. Its not our fault directly.... more indirectly and honestly ignorance by the out of sight out of mind principle. The aid packages that is talked about in the news is just marketing window dressing so our population thinks we are helping. Ultimately it is each countries and population responsibility, I just happen to hold the opinion that outside influeces now are too strong and ingrained generationally for the corruption to realistically change. Look at our own system which is completely corrupted and hijacked by money and special interest. We dont exactly act or do much because we have our basic needs and entertainment value met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Now you've aggravated me SEV. Very nice post... Can't disagree, except the last line. Pres Bush invested more billions of $$$$$ to fight aids than ever before in our history... but the $$$$ goes to? Depends on the governments. Corruption? Greed? Sadly, seems to be any direction you can shake a stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Great Post Cal. Every word true. African countries are corrupt and aids infested. I guess that must be our fault. Everything it seems, is our fault. I have a suggestion to the liberals, if you don't like it here get the FOOK OUT! Move to Africa. Maybe Nigeria or Kenya. Help the poor people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Pick up that sexy gun and keep fighting for MY freedom, stud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 so slavery was not wrong for countries because someone was able to bribe some of the indegenous population? I am the athiest and you are a christian right? where is your moral compass? I'm not saying it's right (nor did I ever hint at the notion that it would be). But you are way off base regarding the impetus of the slave trade. It had nothing to do with bribes. Rulers of indigenous tribes had goods we wanted (people), and we had goods they wanted (rum - which is why the triangle makes a pitstop in the West Indies, & guns). I think I learned about the barter system in 4th grade. What I am saying, is that it's not our responsibility, as a nation, to "bring up the guy behind you." You and I as individuals can choose not to support companies that participate in any behavior we deem unfit for whatever reason. That would be where my moral compass comes in to play. I don't get to dictate what my moral compass should make you do - that's called fascism. We've seen what playing World Police accomplishes (middle east). There are economic reasons for our presence there, and we are witnessing countries that stand up, and say they don't want to participate in the group back-scratch. But guess what? you can't cry foul when we stop paying for your drinks. The middle east's eternal routine of selling us oil for the price they set but bitching about the West being the cause for their poplulation's poverty is the same thing as the hot girl's fat friend who will drink all night on your tab, but then C-blocks you when it's time to cash in. Every once in a while, you've got to either accidentally push the tub-face down some stairs, or send in a super-drunk wingman (Israel) to distract her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I wont get into a debate over African tribal slave trade because that is not the context of this post. I dont want us to act as the world police either... Obviously I have a rabid hate for the neocons just because of their proactive interventionist theories. However our nation has for the last 80 years wanted to be the leader and actively marketed and spread democracy and other moral principles. IF we are marketing the kool aid than maybe we should be leading by example. IF its not ok to poison our own people and steal from them what makes it right for our corps under our laws to do so overseas? Humans are still humans regardless of what country they happen to inhabit. We are profiting immensly from their rescources while they live in squalid conditions and envirementally poisonous land. I realize that life is basically a competition with winners and losers, but our wealthy country does not have to turn a blind eye like we do to how and where we benefit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I wont get into a debate over African tribal slave trade because that is not the context of this post. Well no, obviously not anymore, after I corrected you on the matter. I dont want us to act as the world police either... Obviously I have a rabid hate for the neocons just because of their proactive interventionist theories. However our nation has for the last 80 years wanted to be the leader and actively marketed and spread democracy and other moral principles. IF we are marketing the kool aid than maybe we should be leading by example. IF its not ok to poison our own people and steal from them what makes it right for our corps under our laws to do so overseas? Humans are still humans regardless of what country they happen to inhabit. We are profiting immensly from their rescources while they live in squalid conditions and envirementally poisonous land. I realize that life is basically a competition with winners and losers, but our wealthy country does not have to turn a blind eye like we do to how and where we benefit from. Since we are on the subject of "stealing" natural resources, I'll refute your claim that it doesn't happen here in our country: How many ballin' ass coal miners do you know? Have you ever been to a coal-mining town? Steve Jobs sure as shit isn't opening any apple-douche stores in Appalachia. Sure, there are some bigwigs in each town employed by various facets of the industry (research, mining, transport, etc.) Shouldn't those workers digging the shit out of the ground get paid like saudi princes?? Not unless you want to pay several thousand dollars a week heating/cooling your home. Man, we suck. Loggers? Pretty dangerous work, those guys make decent livings, but are relatively poor when compared to other regions of the country. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but I haven't seen anybody chroming out their Stihl Farm boss' at the local small engine repair shop. That's not fair, right? Daschle, Geitner & the gang command a pretty absurd salary relative to the work they perform, and owe more in taxes than 90% of the country makes in a year. Convince me they aren't stealing from our country, our people. I'll save you the trouble - you cant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 you corrected nothing nor proved anything dealing with slave trade origins of tribal groups versus european slave trade. Look up the definition of Bribe before you post again and how it related to giving something for an expected return. You are trying to move into a sematics argument. A common defense when someone is wrong or put in a position where they can no longer defend a flawed claim is to change the focus of the subject. We were talking about AFrica nor did I ever make the claim that theft of rescources here in the states does not happen. It does not happen no where even close to what we are factually doing in other continents. Yes I have been to coal mining towns in WV and south eastern ohio. First for you to compare U.S. workers in either the loggin industry or Coal mining industry is laughable. Obviously you have never been to any region of Africa. The poverty level and education/understanding of an average worker versus other oppurtunities that are available in each respective country is no where near comparable. We have lawyers and NGO's along with official agencies along with competent medical facilities versus well NOTHING in most of those countries. The EPA when it does work along with state agencies are 1,000,000 more organized and backed up socially and structually than any African country has. Legacy the people of those countries are being abused just like they would be anywhere there is not sufficient oversight. It happens here still but there are too many spotlights that can illuminate and prosecute those problems. Most African nations are like when were expanding West as a naion.... fairly lawless and corrurtable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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