Virginia Gov. Mcdonnell Signs Bill Mandating Photo Id To Vote

[The Cysko Kid]

He'd have to have an effect on me to be a bully

 

I'm just saying whether or not your feelings are hurt (I know they're not) its a bullying tactic.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I've already done that once. No need to re-read, Alan. Just because you disagree with my response doesn't mean it came up short. That's something you ought to learn. And the "pussies" would probably come to an end. Targeting a largely Republican demographic with laws that would turn them into felons overnight thus making them ineligible to vote fits the bill no matter how many of your tears say it doesn't.

 

You still haven't answered why a person shouldnt have to prove their citizenship with a photo ID to participate in a process such as electing our nations leadership. That's the "big fucking mystery" (oh wait, it's not).

 

Um, hello? I've already answered that question multiple times in the thread. That's the whole point of the thread - that making the millions of people who lack a photo ID get one in order to solve a problem that really isn't there is likely to disenfranchise a lot of perfectly eligible voters, especially when you do it months before an election, and that this was a transparent attempt by Republicans, one among many, to limit Democratic turnout. You can't see that? It's only been written 5-6 times.

 

What's more, I've even got a post up there that says that this isn't a huge burden for people if you do it now as opposed to months before an election.

 

And you're gun example is still a whiff. It really is. You can stand by it, but to suggest that the real purpose of laws against guns like background checks is not an attempt to limit gun violence but to disenfranchise Republican voters is complete nonsense. Even if you accept that it's one of the double-secret purposes of the legislation - which is insane, but whatever - stop and think about it for a second: if someone fails a background check and can't get a gun because they're a violent felon, they're already a violent felon. So how has this affected their voting status? It hasn't.

 

So, come on. This is you moving the goalposts. I asked you to come up with Democratic examples that you claimed were there. Specific laws aimed at reducing Republican turnout. You tried the gun thing and then pretended this was about me not answering your question, even though I've been giving that answer the whole time.

 

Like I said, it'd be easier to admit that not everything is done equally by both sides of the aisle. Republicans have been pretty shameless with this stuff, and it's because the higher-ups in the party know they're already demographic underdogs when the contest begins. These have been some of their attempts to level that playing field. Democrats are hardly apolitical, and that was never my claim. (Give me a break.) But in terms of people's voting rights, they haven't been in the business of trying to legislate hoops for Republican-leaning voters to jump through to gain partisan advantage. This is a Republican thing.

 

Now I hope you have a better day today, you big, strong, powerful man.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Well we can deal with my distaste for our current political system at some other time but for now:

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the 15,000,000 illegals should not be voting.

 

And the fact that there is a little bit of work, remember a very little, to get to the polls and vote is fine with me.

Lets not pretend that it is only fairness that makes you want to artificially bloat the numbers of illiterates criminals drug addicts welfare recipients etcetera.

( And before you launch into your canned speech remember its you who has been complaining that these groups need even more prodding to get to the voting booth. But thanks for finally agreeing with me.)

 

Do you think differently?

WSS

 

You're not answering the question. Who, in your mind, should not be allowed to vote by law? Because here's who I think should be allowed to vote: any American citizen, who is an adult, who is properly registered to vote. Other than people who are currently incarcerated, I wouldn't put any restrictions on who gets to choose their representation. What these representatives do affects just about everyone, from the richest to the poorest, and so everyone can have a say in who that's going to be.

 

What say you?

[heckofajobbrownie]

Also, are you under the impression that as soon as we grant legal status to illegal immigrants under whatever new immigration deal we get that they instantly get voting rights? That we're going to have 15 million eligible new voters? Because that's not the case. And I wouldn't be for that even if it were. But it's not.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Just for the record, in Arizona the percentage of illegals is 6 percent.

The percentage of the workforce is 7.4 percent.

Heck and his people are outraged that folks there be asked to show identification.

 

Why do you suppose this is?

WSS

 

Beautiful. Let's unpack this. You're implying that many of these illegal aliens in Arizona vote, and that's why I don't want them to show ID when they vote, right? Because I'm for padding the Democratic vote totals with illegal aliens?

 

Okay, first of all, I'm not for allowing illegal immigrants to vote. Voting must be reserved for citizens only.

 

Second of all, illegal aliens cannot vote in our elections. And here's why your post is either willfully or unwittingly misleading people who might get the impression that all an illegal alien would have to do is to show up to a poll, where they're not asked to show ID, and then they get a ballot, fill it out, and that ballot is counted. But that's not how the system works.

 

The first part of voting is registering. So, let's take a look at Arizona's registration system. You'll notice that the first tab is "Qualifications." And under qualification it says:

 

To Register to Vote in Arizona you Must (Qualifications):

Be a United States citizen

Be a resident of Arizona and the county listed on your registration

Be 18 years of age or more on or before the day of the next regular General Election

You cannot Register to Vote in Arizona if:

You have been convicted of a felony and have not yet had your civil rights restored

You have been adjudicated incompetent

 

And how do they prove that you're a citizen? Well, look under the tab that says "Proof of Citizenship" where it spells out:

 

If this is your first time registering to vote in Arizona or you have moved to another county in Arizona, your voter registration form must also include proof of citizenship or the form will be rejected.

 

And then it spells out the ways you can go about proving that you're a citizen:

 

If you have an Arizona driver license or non-operating identification issued after October 1, 1996, write the number in box 9 on the front of the Arizona Voter Registration form. This will serve as proof of citizenship and no additional documents are needed. If not, you must attach proof of citizenship to the form. Only one acceptable form of proof is needed to register to vote.

The following is a list of acceptable documents to establish your citizenship:

A legible photocopy of a birth certificate that verifies citizenship and supporting legal documentation (i.e. marriage certificate) if the name on the birth certificate is not the same as your current legal name

A legible photocopy of the pertinent pages of your passport

Presentation to the County Recorder of U.S. naturalization documents

or fill in your Alien Registration Number in box 11

Your Indian Census Number, Bureau of Indian Affairs Card Number, Tribal Treaty Card Number, or Tribal Enrollment Number in box 10

A legible photocopy of your Tribal Certificate of Indian Blood or Tribal or Bureau of Indian Affairs Affidavit of Birth.

 

So, as you can see, the scary scenario you lay out? Well, it doesn't work that way. Some guy from Guatemala can't walk in to a precinct and request a ballot and then vote. Because he's not registered. Because he's not a citizen.

[Westside Steve]

Also, are you under the impression that as soon as we grant legal status to illegal immigrants under whatever new immigration deal we get that they instantly get voting rights? That we're going to have 15 million eligible new voters? Because that's not the case. And I wouldn't be for that even if it were. But it's not.

 

Instantly?

 

Heh...

 

Do you suppose when the Browns draft this month they expect to win the Superbowl instantly?

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, they have to become citizens in order to vote, just like everyone else does. And the path to citizenship that will result from this bill is long and tedious and expensive. If you're against allowing someone who is willing to go through all of that to become an American citizen to vote as well, what do you want me to tell you? There aren't going to be many people who choose this path. It's practically prohibitive, and designed to steer people through the normal immigration process.

 

But now that you've tried to change the subject, let's go back to your post. There are lots of illegal aliens in Arizona. You were implying that they can easily vote, and this is why Democrats oppose photo ID. Do you accept that illegal aliens would have to do one of two things in order to vote:

 

- Forge their American citizenship well enough that it fools the state of Arizona, and use it to register to vote, risking detention and deportation.

- Impersonate an American citizen who is registered, risking detention and deportation.

 

How many of either of these cases do you think resulted in votes being counted in the 2012 election? Because you seem very concerned about them, and also unaware that they need to show proof of citizenship in order to register to vote.

[calfoxwc]

Heck translation:

 

"So, it must be "no id required to vote", because we want illegals who are destitute and dependent on Obamao to vote, and we want

 

blacks to vote as many times as they want."

[heckofajobbrownie]

And when are you going to answer the question? Which of your fellow citizens, in your mind, should have their voting rights stripped from them?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

And when are you going to answer the question? Which of your fellow citizens, in your mind, should have their voting rights stripped from them?

 

They should raise the voting age to 35.

[heckofajobbrownie]

There's one horrible idea, or perhaps a joke. Any others?

[Westside Steve]

There's one horrible idea, or perhaps a joke. Any others?

30?

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And when are you going to answer the question? Which of your fellow citizens, in your mind, should have their voting rights stripped from them?

Just so we get along I'll say only white males over the age of 30 who own property and are gainfully employed who can read and write and not addicted to illegal drugs should be denied the right to vote.

 

Seriously I'm busy but will get to it

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Also, are you the lone musician I know if who has never done any drugs?

[The Cysko Kid]

Also, are you the lone musician I know if who has never done any drugs?

 

 

Done drugs and addicted to drugs is two different things.

 

Also Steve you said addicted to illegal drugs. For every addictive illegal drug there's an equally addictive legal alternative. Oxycodone, and adderall are the two big addictives- equal to heroin and coke respectively. Then there's benzos, such as Xanax Valium and ativan. Highly addictive but as far as I know there's no illegal counterpart

[heckofajobbrownie]

Everyone in this country is on some sort of drug.

 

I drink a few nights a week. Can I vote too?

[calfoxwc]

I think you should be a property owner to vote on any tax issues, and

 

you should swear loyalty to our Constitution and pass a test on it, to be able to vote for anything else.

 

And farmers get to vote six times, to counter Heck's black and illegals multiple votes.

 

And, I think all border patrol agents should have phasers set on stun to stun illegals.

 

And, electrify the border fence like a bug zapper.

 

I think I need to go make myself some hot chocolate and watch a good western tonight.

[The Cysko Kid]

I think you should be a property owner to vote on any tax issues, and

 

you should swear loyalty to our Constitution and pass a test on it, to be able to vote for anything else.

 

And farmers get to vote six times, to counter Heck's black and illegals multiple votes.

 

And, I think all border patrol agents should have phasers set on stun to stun illegals.

 

And, electrify the border fence like a bug zapper.

 

I think I need to go make myself some hot chocolate and watch a good western tonight.

 

 

Cal, sometimes I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I hope most of that is in jest because it's as fascist as you like to claim the democrats are. You have to swear an oath to the constitution to vote? Give me a break. Nobody has to swear allegiance to anything in this country. That's one of the founding principles of it. You have to be a property owner to vote on any tax issues? Last I heard renters still have to pay taxes on any number of things. My opinions aren't always right, in fact frequently they're not, just like everyone else on this board, but at least they have some basis in logic most of the time.

 

and if you are going to watch a good western I would recommend Tombstone, The Wild Bunch, True Grit, or 3:16 to Yuma

[calfoxwc]

Oh, I was just kidding, honest. Renters voting on property taxes bugs me, but in jest, I just made it across the board.

 

It is frustrating, though, back to the point of the thread - that dems refuse to try for a solution to voter fraud. It's like

 

they say they want to not alienate some voters, but their actions say more like "if we win, we are happy if they vote more than once for us".

 

The western channel has a lot of bad and great westerns - I'll have to check what we've recorded tomorrow night.

[Legacy Fan]

Beautiful. Let's unpack this. You're implying that many of these illegal aliens in Arizona vote, and that's why I don't want them to show ID when they vote, right? Because I'm for padding the Democratic vote totals with illegal aliens?

 

Okay, first of all, I'm not for allowing illegal immigrants to vote. Voting must be reserved for citizens only.

 

Second of all, illegal aliens cannot vote in our elections. And here's why your post is either willfully or unwittingly misleading people who might get the impression that all an illegal alien would have to do is to show up to a poll, where they're not asked to show ID, and then they get a ballot, fill it out, and that ballot is counted. But that's not how the system works.

 

The first part of voting is registering. So, let's take a look at Arizona's registration system. You'll notice that the first tab is "Qualifications." And under qualification it says:

 

To Register to Vote in Arizona you Must (Qualifications):

Be a United States citizen

Be a resident of Arizona and the county listed on your registration

Be 18 years of age or more on or before the day of the next regular General Election

You cannot Register to Vote in Arizona if:

You have been convicted of a felony and have not yet had your civil rights restored

You have been adjudicated incompetent

 

And how do they prove that you're a citizen? Well, look under the tab that says "Proof of Citizenship" where it spells out:

 

If this is your first time registering to vote in Arizona or you have moved to another county in Arizona, your voter registration form must also include proof of citizenship or the form will be rejected.

 

And then it spells out the ways you can go about proving that you're a citizen:

 

If you have an Arizona driver license or non-operating identification issued after October 1, 1996, write the number in box 9 on the front of the Arizona Voter Registration form. This will serve as proof of citizenship and no additional documents are needed. If not, you must attach proof of citizenship to the form. Only one acceptable form of proof is needed to register to vote.

The following is a list of acceptable documents to establish your citizenship:

A legible photocopy of a birth certificate that verifies citizenship and supporting legal documentation (i.e. marriage certificate) if the name on the birth certificate is not the same as your current legal name

A legible photocopy of the pertinent pages of your passport

Presentation to the County Recorder of U.S. naturalization documents

or fill in your Alien Registration Number in box 11

Your Indian Census Number, Bureau of Indian Affairs Card Number, Tribal Treaty Card Number, or Tribal Enrollment Number in box 10

A legible photocopy of your Tribal Certificate of Indian Blood or Tribal or Bureau of Indian Affairs Affidavit of Birth.

 

So, as you can see, the scary scenario you lay out? Well, it doesn't work that way. Some guy from Guatemala can't walk in to a precinct and request a ballot and then vote. Because he's not registered. Because he's not a citizen.

Whew. That was a close one. Nobody has ever faked a drivers license.

The virtue of the voting system is upheld!!

[Legacy Fan]

Now I hope you have a better day today, you big, strong, powerful man.

Hahaha. Huh? Tripped out man. Tripped out.

 

And to return to reality for a minute: I'd argue that "reducing gun violence" isn't the top priority of an AWB etc., just as requiring an ID to vote isn't *really* about maintaining the integrity of the voting process (as you suggest).

 

Your ability to give the benefit of the doubt for one side of the aisle yet unleash the Tet offensive 2.0 on the other side for an equally subversive tactic (bill) is mesmerizing. So, congrats on that I guess.

[Westside Steve]

Everyone in this country is on some sort of drug.

 

I drink a few nights a week. Can I vote too?

You?

Uh.........

No.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And when are you going to answer the question? Which of your fellow citizens, in your mind, should have their voting rights stripped from them?

None.

I'm not even completely comfortable with denying right to felons who have served their time.

Even though many of you anti gun zealots seem to favor stripping basic rights from that group.

 

But I don't exactly swell with pride to see people who are completely incompetent casting votes for things they know absolutely nothing about except that someone dragged them to the poll.

Personally I'm not comfortable with someone voting who is drunk on his ass or stoned out of his mind, apparently that's cool with you since they're probably Democrats.

I don't particularly enjoy people with no responsibility voting on how much of my money to steal for themselves.

 

Still I have absolutely no problem with any of these bums having to take the tiniest bit of effort, including scraping up at identification card.

And we all understand why you would want to artificially inflated that number.

 

But still it's a positive thing that you now admit that illiterate welfare criminals are a good solid portion of your base.

 

Baby steps.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And just for the record I wasn't changing the topic with the Arizona numbers.

You don't want to have to see ID because you don't think there are enough voter fraud cases to enforce.

You also, apparently and correct me if I'm wrong, don't want people in Arizona to show identification either.

6 percent committing that particular crime isn't enough for you either.

 

I have not looked up the statistics but I'd wager that way less than 6 percent of Americans have committed murder.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Cal, sometimes I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I hope most of that is in jest because it's as fascist as you like to claim the democrats are. You have to swear an oath to the constitution to vote? Give me a break. Nobody has to swear allegiance to anything in this country. That's one of the founding principles of it. You have to be a property owner to vote on any tax issues? Last I heard renters still have to pay taxes on any number of things. My opinions aren't always right, in fact frequently they're not, just like everyone else on this board, but at least they have some basis in logic most of the time.

 

and if you are going to watch a good western I would recommend Tombstone, The Wild Bunch, True Grit, or 3:16 to Yuma

 

Naturalized citizens do.

[heckofajobbrownie]

And just for the record I wasn't changing the topic with the Arizona numbers.

You don't want to have to see ID because you don't think there are enough voter fraud cases to enforce.

You also, apparently and correct me if I'm wrong, don't want people in Arizona to show identification either.

6 percent committing that particular crime isn't enough for you either.

 

I have not looked up the statistics but I'd wager that way less than 6 percent of Americans have committed murder.

WSS

 

I'm not really understanding what your point is here.

 

Did you know that you have to show proof of citizenship in order to register to vote in Arizona? You were suggesting that all of those 6 percent could vote, and that the reason the Democrats don't want them to show ID is so we can pack the vote totals with illegal votes.

 

So, again, how many of these cases do you think we had in Arizona in 2012?

[heckofajobbrownie]

None.

I'm not even completely comfortable with denying right to felons who have served their time.

Even though many of you anti gun zealots seem to favor stripping basic rights from that group.

 

But I don't exactly swell with pride to see people who are completely incompetent casting votes for things they know absolutely nothing about except that someone dragged them to the poll.

Personally I'm not comfortable with someone voting who is drunk on his ass or stoned out of his mind, apparently that's cool with you since they're probably Democrats.

I don't particularly enjoy people with no responsibility voting on how much of my money to steal for themselves.

 

Still I have absolutely no problem with any of these bums having to take the tiniest bit of effort, including scraping up at identification card.

And we all understand why you would want to artificially inflated that number.

 

But still it's a positive thing that you now admit that illiterate welfare criminals are a good solid portion of your base.

 

Baby steps.

 

WSS

 

I wouldn't deny the right to felons who have served their time either.

 

As for the knowledge of the voting public, I don't share your eternal distaste for low information voters, nor do I celebrate them. Nor am I concerned about the tiny number of cases of people who vote drunk or stoned. (I really don't think voting is high on the list of things to do when you're an addict.) Nor am I concerned about people voting for how much "money to steal for themselves" as that's not really how our system works, even if I know what pissy point you're trying to make.

 

People vote their interests, what's important to them, what's important to their communities. They don't always share your interests. They don't always live where you live. They're not always going to have the same concerns that you do. This is the country we live in. It's pretty varied.

 

And your idea that "A good portion of the Democratic base" is made up of these illiterate, stoned, criminals on welfare voting to steal your money is, well, your usual rant. But completely fair, I grant you that!

 

You are something.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Hahaha. Huh? Tripped out man. Tripped out.

 

And to return to reality for a minute: I'd argue that "reducing gun violence" isn't the top priority of an AWB etc., just as requiring an ID to vote isn't *really* about maintaining the integrity of the voting process (as you suggest).

 

Your ability to give the benefit of the doubt for one side of the aisle yet unleash the Tet offensive 2.0 on the other side for an equally subversive tactic (bill) is mesmerizing. So, congrats on that I guess.

 

As someone who works/has worked around these people, I can guarantee you that the top priority, or the impetus, for an assault weapons ban is reducing gun violence. Absolutely. Whether or not you think it's misguided - and I'm inclined to agree - that's what's motivating these people. I can assure you of that. That's what background checks are about, too. Absolutely. But I don't think background checks are misguided.

 

And I'm hardly unleashing the Tet offensive. Because it's not the same thing. These aren't two "equally subversive tactics" aimed at reducing voter turnout. It seems pretty obvious to me, and I've yet to see anything in here that even comes close to the equivalent tactic employed on the Democratic side. But I guess I can't convince you of this, so we'll move on.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Leg, these are bills filed last week by Republicans in North Carolina. Tell me why you think they're doing these:

 

Senate Bill 428, filed by Sen. Jerry Tillman, R-Randolph, would cut the early voting period from two weeks to one and would eliminate same-day voter registration.

 

House Bill 451, filed by Rep. Edgar Starnes, R-Caldwell, goes even further. In addition to cutting early voting and same-day registration, it would also outlaw early voting on Sunday and straight-ticket voting.

 

...Why would you want to outlaw early voting on Sunday? Why would you want to shrink the early voting period? Why would you want to outlaw straight-ticket voting?

 

And that's what's so fun about these efforts. At least with Voter ID laws there was a plausible claim that they were doing it to prevent a certain type of voter fraud, even though that was a pretty bogus rationale. But why would you care if registered voters voted on Sunday, when many aren't working, as opposed to Tuesday, when many of them are? Why would it matter if people voted straight ticket? Are people who vote straight ticket committing some type of fraud?

 

Or might there be another explanation?

[calfoxwc]

Leg, these are bills filed last week by Republicans in North Carolina. Tell me why you think they're doing these:<br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">Senate Bill 428, filed by Sen. Jerry Tillman, R-Randolph, would cut the early voting period from two weeks to one and would eliminate same-day voter registration.

*******************************************************

That's because of a variant of the Cloward-Piven strategy. In this case, it's overburdening the electoral process, which radicals want to subvert for

their own gain. Or, heckbunker, are you saying that there are a lot of dems who are too stupid and lazy to register well before an election?

 

Pick one. Stand up for a change, and make your choice. And, you've heard the "joke" .... "voter EARLY so you can vote OFTEN" ???

**********************************************************

House Bill 451, filed by Rep. Edgar Starnes, R-Caldwell, goes even further. In addition to cutting early voting and same-day registration, it would also outlaw early voting on Sunday and straight-ticket voting.<br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">...Why would you want to outlaw early voting on Sunday? Why would you want to shrink the early voting period? Why would you want to outlaw straight-ticket voting?<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">***********************************************************

Early voting? Same day registration? What is the point of voting "early" ? So certain Obamao dedicated voters can have time to vote more than once?

 

If it's about lessening the long? lines... why not emphasize a bit longer duration to be able to vote. No, it's always "early voting".

 

I'll tell you why early voting is wrong. Because dems/radical dirtbags could all vote "early" before anybody else usually would, and unduly and fraudulently

influence the election with media results.

 

And that should not be happening. That's a corrupt way to hold an election. Deny it, heckbunker, if you can.

**************************************************************

And that's what's so fun about these efforts. At least with Voter ID laws there was a plausible claim that they were doing it to prevent a certain type of voter fraud, even though that was a pretty bogus rationale.

*************************************************************

Now you've stepped in "it", heckbunker. That was stupid of you. Want one of us to post the black lady who bragged that she voted twice ? Actually voted

herself, about what was it, six or seven times? You think that was definately the only time that happened, or... it happen far more than we know, since

in Philly, the conservative observers were booted out, no explanation, and eventually were forced to let them back in.... now, why were they booted out

in the first place? Any idea, heckbunker?

Last chance.....You're "bogus rationale" is any reason that doesn't expedite you and yours political agenda. Plain and simple.

*******************************************************************

But why would you care if registered voters voted on Sunday, when many aren't working, as opposed to Tuesday, when many of them are? Why would it matter if people voted straight ticket? Are people who vote straight ticket committing some type of fraud?<br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">Or might there be another explanation?

*****************************************************************

Let me guess. Sunday, gov offices are closed. Only poll workers would be in the building, except for voters. Say, all black poll workers in Philly, all alone in an otherwise "closed" building?

Why gosh, what would be wrong with that, dumbass? What straight ticket, btw. I already vote straight ticket. Or, do you mean that you all want a checkbox, to

automatically vote straight ticket? The latter is my bet. It's easier to teach the uneducated and stoned, to "just click the "x" at the top of the page" to be able

to encourage the large dem voting block from having to decide for themselves on each person and issue. So, how the hell do you vote "straight ticket" on

ISSUES anyways? Or, the people your dem leftist activists drag out of retirement homes, cart to the voting booths to be legal, the residents

who don't know where they are... they can't concentrate long enough and their dem "assistants" that are..."helping" them don't want to get caught

making their choices for them? Maybe you dems want desperately to ENCOURAGE voter ....more....voter fraud? Or, "might there be another explanation?"

 

It's just as hard to make your voting choices on Sunday as it is any other day of the week.