"solid Starters"

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Most of you have probably seen this article, but it's ironic that all the "Solid Starter" possible free agents are in our areas of need(CB, LB, WR, OG, S)

 

 

11) Paul Kruger, OLB/DE, Baltimore Ravens: Be leery of paying a Dexter Jackson-like Super Bowl-run tax to Kruger. (Especially when he mostly sat in the Super Bowl in favor of Courtney Upshaw for run-defense reasons.)

 

12) Jake Long, OT, Miami Dolphins: Will a team get early-career Jake Long or late-career Tony Boselli? Long is a prime candidate to get overpaid.

 

13) Sean Smith, CB, Miami Dolphins: A physical player who occasionally looks like a true No. 1 cornerback. (At least for a few games at a time.)

 

14) Brent Grimes, CB, Atlanta Falcons: He'd be among the top 10 players if not for the torn Achilles' tendon suffered in Week 1 last year. That's a big "if," though. Grimes could sign a short-term deal, but his talent is worth the risk.

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15) Aqib Talib, CB, New England Patriots: I'd take my chances with Grimes over Talib, whose on-field play can be as erratic as his off-field behavior.

 

16) Phil Loadholt, OG, Minnesota Vikings: Loadholt is a throwback to the days when right tackles were maulers in the run game and not great at protecting the quarterback. Hidden value: His name is Loadholt.

 

17) Dannell Ellerbe, LB, Baltimore Ravens: The Ray Lewis-sized hole at the core of Baltimore's defense makes the versatile Ellerbe a priority to re-sign. He can rush, cover and stop the run.

 

18) Chris Houston, CB, Detroit Lions: The cornerback market is deep this year, and there's not a huge gap within the top seven guys at the position.

 

19) Keenan Lewis, CB, Pittsburgh Steelers: Lewis quietly stepped up as Pittsburgh's best cover corner in 2012 at age 26.

 

20) Dustin Keller, TE, New York Jets: Yes, there's a chance he gets a whole lot better away from Mark Sanchez, Tony Sparano and the rest of the Jets' offensive morass.

 

21) Brian Hartline, WR, Miami Dolphins: No, every white receiver should not be compared to Wes Welker. Hartline is more of a physical downfield threat who fits as a solid No. 2 receiver.

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22) Ed Reed, S, Baltimore Ravens: His post-Super Bowl/Oscars hangover could be mitigated if picked up by the Colts (Chuck Pagano) or the Patriots (Bill Belichick).

 

23) Danny Amendola, WR, St. Louis Rams: OK, here's a receiver who should be compared to Welker. This former "Hard Knocks" hero in Dallas is a great slot man who can't shake the injury bug.

 

24) Glover Quin, S, Houston Texans: Defensive coordinator Wade Phillips was smart to make Quin's cover skills at safety a huge part of his defense. Now the Texans will have to pay to keep him.

 

25) Fred Davis, TE, Washington Redskins: Davis was one of the league's most promising young tight ends before tearing his Achilles' tendon. He could be a great bargain.

 

26) Michael Bennett, DE, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Martellus' brother quietly emerged as a difference maker in Greg Schiano's defense.

 

27) Kenny Phillips, S, New York Giants: Injuries have sapped Phillips' reliability, but he's proven to be a plus starter when he's on the field.

 

28) Brandon Moore, OG, New York Jets: He's so much more than one-half of the "Butt Fumble." Moore can upgrade a lot of starting units.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000145968/article/top-85-free-agents-mike-wallace-heads-best-available

 

 

 

 

 

Do you guys believe this is the year we land one or two of these relevant names?

[Unsympathetic]

I hope we land:

 

Goldson, FS

Kruger, OLB/DE

Grimes, CB -- If he did the rehab to heal his Achilles

 

Draft: OLB/DE, CB, RG [hopefully Jones/Alabama]

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

I think if we signed any two of these guys, whether it be a safety and guard, or guard and corner, we will be ready THIS YEAR.

[Browns57]

I would say with 90% confidence that we land two of those names. I expect we sign 4-5 FA this year.

[The Gipper]

I would say with 90% confidence that we land two of those names. I expect we sign 4-5 FA this year.

 

 

Not according to TC. These guys will all be afraid of the snow and of their hair catching on fire from leftover sparks from the river burning 44 years ago. They will all have to come here and live in cardboard boxes in the ghetto, and they will all be afraid of drowning in that big lake that is just outside the stadium.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Not according to TC. These guys will all be afraid of the snow and of their hair catching on fire from leftover sparks from the river burning 44 years ago. They will all have to come here and live in cardboard boxes in the ghetto, and they will all be afraid of drowning in that big lake that is just outside the stadium.

 

Yeah, three of those guys happen to be Greg Jennings, Connor Barwin and Mario Manningham.

 

 

You know... good players. Players that Cleveland hasn't seen in...ever.

 

You keep thinking Cleveland is this shining gem nestled on the shores of some glistening body of water. The rest of nation will continue to know that it's a dumpster on the shores of a cesspool.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

But we already have a lot of good players, were just a few good players away..

[Mark O]

 

 

You keep thinking Cleveland is this shining gem nestled on the shores of some glistening body of water. The rest of nation will continue to know that it's a dumpster on the shores of a cesspool.

 

 

I've been to Cleveland many times and would never classify it as a dumpster. Its truly one of my favorite places to visit, so much so that I'm trying to plan two trips back to Cleveland this season.

 

I can say this with absolute certainty. I'd rather hang out with the people from Cleveland than most of the people I come in contact with out here on a daily basis.

[Canton Mike]

I've been to Cleveland many times and would never classify it as a dumpster. Its truly one of my favorite places to visit, so much so that I'm trying to plan two trips back to Cleveland this season.

 

I can say this with absolute certainty. I'd rather hang out with the people from Cleveland than most of the people I come in contact with out here on a daily basis.

 

The people of Cleveland & Ohio generally have solid, midwestern values. That's to be admired & respected. Thank you Mark.

 

Mike

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The people of Cleveland & Ohio generally have solid, midwestern values. That's to be admired & respected. Thank you Mark.

 

Mike

 

The people were never in question, the city is what is the joke. It's in a constant state of disrepair.

[The Gipper]

Yeah, three of those guys happen to be Greg Jennings, Connor Barwin and Mario Manningham.

 

 

You know... good players. Players that Cleveland hasn't seen in...ever.

 

You keep thinking Cleveland is this shining gem nestled on the shores of some glistening body of water. The rest of nation will continue to know that it's a dumpster on the shores of a cesspool.

 

 

If these guys don't want to come here it is because they have no faith in this organization being a winner. Ater changing GMs/Presidents/HCs every two years you can't necessarily blame them.

If the Browns were winning anything else would be meaningless. Winning and money are the only factors. Plain and simple. Anyone that believes otherwise is a fool.

[The Gipper]

The people were never in question, the city is what is the joke. It's in a constant state of disrepair.

 

When is the last time you were here? 1979? It cannot have been in the last 20 years.

 

By the way....weren't you living in like Nags Head or the OBX somewhere? How did you get to Myrtle Beach?

[English Brown]

Players will only knock back certain cities if they aren't really sold on the team in the first place. Nobody would compare Pittsburg or Green Bay with Miami but they don't have to answer the same questions because the teams themselves are more successful.

 

The trouble the Browns have is they have neither a winning reputation nor a city on the beach so they might have to throw more money at some players, at least in the short term until the team looks a better proposition.

[marcus]

It seems to me that what this front office has lacked since 1999 is that one or group of guys that can "sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman with white gloves". I promise you if some of them would challenge these players to come here some of them would. Ego is huge thing to these players. Let them know that their skills could be apart of the turn around and that will be something that will remain with them for the rest of their career and lives. I don't think the front office has really tapped into who these players are as men. While I understand that the lack of success coupled with a cold weather climate is a turn off...I fault the front office and coaching staffs of the past for not selling the point of them being apart of something special. Great teams that have come out of the cellar have done it in the past. The most recent....the New Orleans Saints. Say what you want about the bounty scandal but the front office, Sean Peyton, and his staff got together and put together a great team. Did they also do it with drafting well....sure did. However, selling that team to free agents must have been a challenge (A losing organization in a city that was ravaged by one of the worst hurricanes in U.S. history). So it can be done if the front office can talk to these guys the right way. Money of course helps but we've been sitting on 40 million for quite sometime. It will be challenging but it's not impossible.

[English Brown]

The best thing the Saints did was sell the dream to Drew Brees. If you can get a talisman figure to buy into the idea they'll put everything on the line for it and also make it easier to sell the dream to others

 

It's also about choosing the right guy to pitch the idea to. I don't see someone like Mike Wallace buying into a team idea and playing to achieve the common goals, where as maybe a Wes Welker would. Not saying the Browns would interest him but he seems to have more or the mentality needed to be successful.

[marcus]

The best thing the Saints did was sell the dream to Drew Brees. If you can get a talisman figure to buy into the idea they'll put everything on the line for it and also make it easier to sell the dream to others

 

It's also about choosing the right guy to pitch the idea to. I don't see someone like Mike Wallace buying into a team idea and playing to achieve the common goals, where as maybe a Wes Welker would. Not saying the Browns would interest him but he seems to have more or the mentality needed to be successful.

 

True but the point is...it has to start from somewhere.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

If these guys don't want to come here it is because they have no faith in this organization being a winner. Ater changing GMs/Presidents/HCs every two years you can't necessarily blame them.

If the Browns were winning anything else would be meaningless. Winning and money are the only factors. Plain and simple. Anyone that believes otherwise is a fool.

 

 

We won't be a winner unless we get some FA talent, that's the point.

[The Gipper]

Players will only knock back certain cities if they aren't really sold on the team in the first place. Nobody would compare Pittsburg or Green Bay with Miami but they don't have to answer the same questions because the teams themselves are more successful.

 

The trouble the Browns have is they have neither a winning reputation nor a city on the beach so they might have to throw more money at some players, at least in the short term until the team looks a better proposition.

 

Whattaya mean English Brown that Cleveland doesn't have a beach? There are some very nice beaches here.

[English Brown]

You know exactly what I mean but if you really need it spelling out it is that selling the city to someone from somewhere else is going to be easy regardless of the rubber museum...

 

I take that picture wasnt taken in November???

[The Gipper]

We won't be a winner unless we get some FA talent, that's the point.

 

A number of players on the Browns roster now are FAs. They got Parker (since released) and Rucker last year. Brandon Jacobs, Sheldon Brown, Ben Watson, Alex Smith, Fujita, Gocong, Usama Young...all I believe were acquired as FAs.

They WILL get some free agents. How many and how good will they be? Who knows.

So just getting FAs will not in and of itself cause them to win.

The players they have drafted over the years: Weeden, TR, Gordon, JT, Mack, The Schwartz, Lauvao, Pinkston, Benjamin, Little, Cameron, Rubin, The Sausage King, Winn, Taylor, DQ, Haden, TJ Ward, et al plus whomever they pick up this year will be the main cogs in them winning or not.

FAs will just serve to fill some gaps. In the past they have had FAs do OK at those gap filling. Hopefully they get some decent ones now. If Fujita and Gocong were superstar OLBs we wouldn't be so desperate at that position.

[The Gipper]

You know exactly what I mean but if you really need it spelling out it is that selling the city to someone from somewhere else is going to be easy regardless of the rubber museum...

 

I take that picture wasnt taken in November???

 

 

I don't know. I think that Rubber Museum may just be the piece de resistance, n'est ce pas

 

And FYI, the water in Lake Erie in November is quite warm. Unlike most of the oceans and the larger great lakes, Lake Erie is shallow and warms up quicker. Believe it or not the water temperature there is much more pleasant sooner than the water at any time in the Pacific north of LA, and in the Atlantic north of Florida.

Of course, being shallow it cools down quicker...so though Lake Erie may be warm still in November, by the end of the month it would not be pleasant.

[English Brown]

All of that maybe true but the fact of the matter is Cleveland, rightly or wrongly, doesn't have the reputation as a top city to live in. A view which your own national media seem to enjoy re-enforcing every chance they get.

 

You seriously think telling a free agent that the temperature of Lake Erie in November is 'pleasant' is going to wash?

 

The bottom line is if you want top players your going to have to pay for it, possibly even more than a Miami might have to, so make sure when you target the guy your going to splash out on its a guy whose willing to buy into the spirit of what theyre trying to achieve, rather than someone who thinks is doing everyone a favor playing for Cleveland.

[The Gipper]

All of that maybe true but the fact of the matter is Cleveland, rightly or wrongly, doesn't have the reputation as a top city to live in. A view which your own national media seem to enjoy re-enforcing every chance they get.

 

On the contrary. Cleveland has an outstanding reputation as a city to live in. It does not have an outstanding reputation perhaps as a vacation destination. There is a hell of a difference.

That is why head to head it scored better than San Diego in 11 of 12 categories...better cost of living, less congested, less crime, less unemployment....even better sports teams...and several others. But San Diego has the great weather.....and that is all that some people can think about, including apparently you know who.

I think perhaps it would be like Liverpool compared to London or some other 'glamor spot" in the UK. To live and work and raise a family Liverpool may indeed be better than London. (I don't know, you would have to tell me if that is an apt statement).

 

You seriously think telling a free agent that the temperature of Lake Erie in November is 'pleasant' is going to wash?

 

No, my whole point was that a FA wouldn't care about such things. They would care about coaching and winning and getting paid a lot of money. TC seems to believe that all the peripheral BS is all a player cares about. I say they don't give a cabbage fart about that stuff, they car about what I just said.

The bottom line is if you want top players your going to have to pay for it, possibly even more than a Miami might have to, so make sure when you target the guy your going to splash out on its a guy whose willing to buy into the spirit of what theyre trying to achieve, rather than someone who thinks is doing everyone a favor playing for Cleveland.

 

A guy could get paid less in Cleveland, yet have more in the end than if he took more in Miami...because the cost of living in Miami, say, is so much more.

The one thing that attracts some of these players to Fla is no taxes. Florida is no fucking picnic. It is a big sweathole. I would 10 times rather spend a winter in Ohio than a summer in Florida. And Florida has slums as bad as any third world country.

But if you go there in the winter or spring the weather is nice.

To me (having lived there one summer) Florida is just a vacation destination, not a place to live. Both my sister and niece moved away from Florida to come back to live in Ohio.

[English Brown]

I'm not exactly sure what point your even trying to make at the minute but I think you would sit here typing all day and im getting a little bored. So here goes at a short version of my point of view and you can agree with it or not :-

 

Cleveland will probably have to pay over the odds for FA because they are BOTH in city that isn't universally appreciated, regardless of surveys on education etc, and because the team has a history of losing. If they do try to spend big, choose the guy on attitude as much as ability.

[The Gipper]

I'm not exactly sure what point your even trying to make at the minute but I think you would sit here typing all day and im getting a little bored. So here goes at a short version of my point of view and you can agree with it or not :-

 

Cleveland will probably have to pay over the odds for FA because they are BOTH in city that isn't universally appreciated, regardless of surveys on education etc, and because the team has a history of losing. If they do try to spend big, choose the guy on attitude as much as ability.

 

I understand that education may occassionally be boring.

 

As to whether or not the Browns will have to "overpay" for FAs, no one knows. They will pay whatever price the market bears for the commodities they want.

[Canton Mike]

Obviously, our new Management Team has more credibility as shown by the hiring of Turner & Horton, 2 Coordinators who are well respected throughout the NFL, so SOMEBODY is already "selling the dream" here in Cleveland. I'm sure they were in demand in more spots than Cleveland. Just the addition of those 2 guys will improve our chances of signing quality FAs.

I believe in what is being done. It's fun to watch PROS work!

 

Mike