Reducing Gun Violence

[heckofajobbrownie]

Oh dear me.

Look if you insist upon spouting the talking points of the left what in the world do you expect?

And I'm not even kidding.

 

And no I wasn't assuming you'd want to get into a deep debate about the little piece of snark, but I know you get it.

To you and your people anyone to the right of Lenin is fringe.

I get it.

WSS

 

What was the talking point? The Reagan remark? That's absolutely true. Unless you think there's room for a tax-raising, gun-controlling, zero nuclear weapons wishing, sit down with our adversaries loving, collective bargaining supporting former union president in today's Republican Party. But there isn't.

 

Reagan is a great barometer of what political scientists have documented and measured - the Republican Party has drifted further and further to the right, and has become more and more ideological. The classic "bubble" response is to wish this reality away by calling it a "talking point." Sorry, that's the reality.

 

Steve, my brother, try arguing in good faith for once. Bring something other than spite. It's a new year.

[heckofajobbrownie]

And furthermore this entire crock of horse s*** is meaningless when you get right down to it.

We can pat ourselves on the back for having such a civil left of center consensus.

Let's have stricter penalties for gun crimes! Hoo ray!

As long as they're not mandatory nor too strict so that trial lawyers can get you off for a fee.

Let's have extensive background checks! Hoo rah again.

As long as they don't reveal anything embarrassing, okay?

Hell we can't even get a prescription drug database ass up and running.

And it's already illegal to lie on 1 of those applications you know.

There were literally thousands of fraudulent applications last year but only 44 were prosecuted.

We can ban any firearms that look like assault weapons.

It won't do anything but hey it sounds good.

 

Look I realize you think I must be a gun nut but personally I don't care if they ban handguns everything take it all away.

Just man up and say the second Amendment is worthless, which it is.

 

You do realize this would also wntail going through everyone's home searching and seizing every firearm right?

Fine.

As long as we take them from the bad guys too.

 

But instead I figure all we will get is some Kabuki theater from Obama and his trained monkey Biden.

It was embarrassing to watch only because there are people out there in the world watching it probably getting all choked up

 

Sometimes in order to fix anything, even slightly, you need more than a political advertisement disguised as a strategy.

 

But you can congratulate yourself you took a shot at Reagan!

Help yourself to a dog treat.

WSS

 

Eesh.

 

Look, your speeches are the same no matter what we're talking about. It's so fucking boring, and I'd already taken two months off from them.

 

And, as always, you're completely wrong about what I think. I believe in the Second Amendment. I don't think citizens in a free country are dependent on the state for their personal protection. I believe that yes, Americans have the right to armed self-defense, with limits, and balancing the need for public safety.

 

I really don't have time for you if this is where you want to go. You went zero to asshole in 2 days.

[Westside Steve]

Uh too late. Sorry I went up stairs dry my hair brush my teeth getting dressed...

I'd decided to come down and just delete that last entire rant.

 

Oh well forget it, but it's still nothing but political theater.

If anyone can admit that, fine. If not oh well.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

No, it's not. It's just the only political opinion you have. It's your self-image. That doesn't make it true.

 

Everyone in here is talking about the limits of what these changes can accomplish. It's in every post. We're talking about reducing problems at the margins. There are no starry-eyed idealists in here. But that gets in the way of you pretending like you're the only realist in the world, so you pretend you never read it. Which makes you sound like an imbecile.

 

So just fuck off. You're an asshole pretending to be a jolly old fellow.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Look at Obama proposals, it seems like tightening up background checks is the most worthwhile and most likely to get some coalition of support. Most of the other stuff probably dies in the House.

[Legacy Fan]

Look at Obama proposals, it seems like tightening up background checks is the most worthwhile and most likely to get some coalition of support. Most of the other stuff probably dies in the House.

 

 

Just saw these. Have to say I'm surprised/impressed. He seems to get it. (Background, mental health)

 

Good for him.

[Kosar_For_President]

Not a sweeping as I thought. I actually agree with 7,8 and 9. 7 & 8 were down the lines of what I proposed.

Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that Obama issued today:

 

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

 

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

 

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

 

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

 

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

 

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

 

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

 

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

 

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

 

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

 

11. Nominate an ATF director.

 

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

 

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

 

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

 

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.

 

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

 

17. Release a letter to health-care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law-enforcement authorities.

 

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

 

19. Develop model emergency-response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

 

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental-health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

 

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

 

22. Commit to finalizing mental-health-parity regulations.

 

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

[calfoxwc]

meanwhile, the "AG" is a corrupt Obamao Mafiaso mentality,

 

and Sebelius and Obamao don't appear to be any more mentally right

 

that a school murderer. "Fast and Furious" comes to mind. "Fast and Furious" was the

 

intended "Sandy Hook" crisis to get gun control and anti-gun owner sentiment up and running,

 

but it backfired. This dirtbag, marxist pig president will stoop to any low, to get more and more

 

of his agenda up and rolling before all is lost. Obamao said before, that raising the debt limit was

 

terrible, terrible, etc etc etc. Now that HE has HIS power, he wants to be allowed to unilaterally take over

 

and have the power to raise it any damn time he wants to buy more power, etc.

 

And the "clinging to their guns and religion".. thing... how the hell do you take this dirtbag "president" seriously?

 

He's like the old Soviet kgb - lying is a way of life, vicious lying is even better. It covers up the evil behind the scenes.

 

The left says one thing, and poops another...of the same thing.

 

For marxist pigs, it's just another foot in the door, using children as a front,

 

using murdered children's faces on poker chips.

 

If Bush had done that, the left would be outraged and "sickened".

 

And heckbunker would be "all in" for the left, as usual.

 

Some of those ideas came from the NRA - Biden coopted them for Obamao.

 

But the left is still the left - a leftist video game has the game player - murdering

 

the president of the NRA with a gun.

 

That is who Obamao and co are. And, when another hideous murder spree takes place...

 

sadly, it will be Obamao and co saying "we didn't do enough, now we need to _______".

 

Just like the definition of "assault weapons" isn't specified, it just opens the door to new

 

and more Obamao take all guns away "definitions" later on.

 

Meanwhile, a quarter of a million Americans joined the NRA. Meanwhile,

 

guns and ammo are flying off the shelves.

 

I am concerned, though, that the "if you've ever been treated for ..." or "ever been sad" mentality....that then you can never have a gun, hunt,whatever.....

 

will make folks NOT get the help they need - even if it's only grief counseling. They already are putting a "criminal mentality" on all veterans, the tea party, hunters,

 

gun owners, Christians,

[heckofajobbrownie]

Just saw these. Have to say I'm surprised/impressed. He seems to get it. (Background, mental health)

 

Good for him.

 

He's got stiffer penalties for people whose guns fall into the wrong hands, cops in schools, reversed the ban on studying gun safety, magazine size limited to 10 bullets. It's not bad. Lot of the stuff we were talking about.

 

The executive orders are pretty uncontroversial. Mostly housekeeping stuff.

[VaporTrail]

Not a sweeping as I thought. I actually agree with 7,8 and 9. 7 & 8 were down the lines of what I proposed.

Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that Obama issued today:

 

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

 

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

 

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

 

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

 

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

 

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

 

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

 

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

 

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

 

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

 

11. Nominate an ATF director.

 

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

 

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

 

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

 

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.

 

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

 

17. Release a letter to health-care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law-enforcement authorities.

 

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

 

19. Develop model emergency-response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

 

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental-health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

 

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

 

22. Commit to finalizing mental-health-parity regulations.

 

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

He's got stiffer penalties for people whose guns fall into the wrong hands, cops in schools, reversed the ban on studying gun safety, magazine size limited to 10 bullets. It's not bad. Lot of the stuff we were talking about.

 

The executive orders are pretty uncontroversial. Mostly housekeeping stuff.

 

Shit, lets do away with the requirement for a term limit. Obama 2016!

[heckofajobbrownie]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."

 

...Anyone want to guess who said that?

[calfoxwc]

Not a bad quote. Trouble is, the left will redefine terms at every turn, just like you do, heckbunker, in every single argument with anybody.

 

Obamao coopted some of our ideas after all.

 

But, when this school violence happens again, then what?

 

The rest of us know, despite you being drenched in Egypt.

[Westside Steve]

Scalia?

WSS

[VaporTrail]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."

 

...Anyone want to guess who said that?

 

please be reagan please be reagan please be reagan

 

aw. not even close.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Here's some Reagan:

 

May 3, 1994

To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:

 

We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.

 

Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.

 

The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.

 

While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.

 

Sincerely,

 

Gerald R. Ford

 

Jimmy Carter

 

Ronald Reagan

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yeah, run in the Republican primaries today having signed a gun control letter with Jimmy Carter. See how far you get.

 

More:

 

While still president in 1986, Reagan signed into law the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which was hailed by gun rights advocates because it included numerous protections for gun owners. However, it also banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that were not already registered on the day the law was signed.

 

Then, in 1991, four years after the controversial Brady Bill was introduced in Congress and with passage again in doubt, Reagan penned an op-ed in The New York Times titled "Why I'm for the Brady Bill." In it, he expressed support for a seven-day waiting period before a purchaser could take possession of a handgun, an even more stringent restriction than the five day cooling-off period that was included in the final legislation, and less stringent than the 15-day cooling-off period he signed into law as governor of California. Reagan stated that prohibitions on sales to felons, drug addicts and the mentally ill had "no enforcement mechanism" and that "a uniform standard across the country" was necessary.

 

Regarding handguns, Reagan stated, "This level of violence must be stopped … If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land."

 

Finally, in 1994, Reagan successfully threw his support behind the Assault Weapons Ban in a joint letter to the Boston Globe, saying, "As a longtime gun owner and supporter of the right to bear arms … I am convinced that the limitations imposed in this bill are absolutely necessary."

[Legacy Fan]

Remember when Ice Cube, Ice T, & Dr. Dre used to be scary? Early 90's. Wanna guess how many references of using "AK's , & other Assault Weapons" they made in their lyrics?

 

 

 

Care to guess what a letter from 3 stodgy old white guys was really targeting in 1994? (Psssst: it wasn't the guns)

[The Cysko Kid]

Remember when Ice Cube, Ice T, & Dr. Dre used to be scary? Early 90's. Wanna guess how many references of using "AK's , & other Assault Weapons" they made in their lyrics?

 

 

 

Care to guess what a letter from 3 stodgy old white guys was really targeting in 1994? (Psssst: it wasn't the guns)

 

 

Was he targeting them in the 80s too? N.w.a. is classic but not that classic.

[The Cysko Kid]

Let's not forget Regan was shot by a lunatic. He might have had some personal feelings on it.

[Legacy Fan]

No doubt he had a personal interest.

 

Still, look at the wording of the letter (AK, not AR) and recall the lyrics and the timeframe.

 

Not purely coincidental, IMO.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Here's some data for those of you who might doubt the Republicans' ideological drift to the right.

 

"We have previously written about asymmetric polarization, arguing that the primary driver of contemporary partisan polarization has been the steady movement of congressional Republicans to the right. This trend appears to have continued through the 112th congress. House Republicans – despite a large majority earned in the 2010 midterm elections – have continued their rightward drift, adding more conservative members than moderate members. Senate Republicans also became a more conservative group in the 112th Congress, while Senate Democrats remained mostly ideologically static."

[heckofajobbrownie]

[heckofajobbrownie]

Also, the NRA is starting to look like Obama's best ally here. They're really turning people off. First it was that LaPierre speech, and now this ad, which, as it turns out, is totally false. Obama's kids' school does not have armed guards, and never has.

[calfoxwc]

asshole. This marxist pig "president" is causing every gun store in our country to have it's best years ever.

 

A quarter of a million folks joined the NRA. Ammo and guns are flying off the shelves. Outside of your stupid ass

 

political conjecturing, several of us HAVE BEEN TO GUN STORES AND GUN SHOWS. You talk out of your butt in

 

most every conversation. On the new demand, an AR-15, which used to sell for about $600 bucks - now sells

 

for 1200 and they are hard to find. Tens of thousands have flocked to gun shows in a few states. Obamao has

 

now overplayed his hand. He is now going to ungalvanize the democrats in Congress over this whole bun control "foot in the door".

 

Sheriffs around the country are refusing to enforce any crap from Obamao that defies our Consitution. Flip that, heckbunker.

 

Last time we bought ammo, it was amazing to see people buying guns and ammo right and left. I can't wait to go to a gun show

 

soon and watch the action. I need more clips before Obamao and co go on to their next marxist anti gun ownership move.

[The Cysko Kid]

asshole. This marxist pig "president" is causing every gun store in our country to have it's best years ever.

 

A quarter of a million folks joined the NRA. Ammo and guns are flying off the shelves. Outside of your stupid ass

 

political conjecturing, several of us HAVE BEEN TO GUN STORES AND GUN SHOWS. You talk out of your butt in

 

most every conversation. On the new demand, an AR-15, which used to sell for about $600 bucks - now sells

 

for 1200 and they are hard to find. Tens of thousands have flocked to gun shows in a few states. Obamao has

 

now overplayed his hand. He is now going to ungalvanize the democrats in Congress over this whole bun control "foot in the door".

 

Sheriffs around the country are refusing to enforce any crap from Obamao that defies our Consitution. Flip that, heckbunker.

 

Last time we bought ammo, it was amazing to see people buying guns and ammo right and left. I can't wait to go to a gun show

 

soon and watch the action. I need more clips before Obamao and co go on to their next marxist anti gun ownership move.

 

 

Listen to yourself. You sound like a crazy person.

[heckofajobbrownie]

You're just picking up on this now?

[FairHooker11]

Here's some data for those of you who might doubt the Republicans' ideological drift to the right.

 

"We have previously written about asymmetric polarization, arguing that the primary driver of contemporary partisan polarization has been the steady movement of congressional Republicans to the right. This trend appears to have continued through the 112th congress. House Republicans – despite a large majority earned in the 2010 midterm elections – have continued their rightward drift, adding more conservative members than moderate members. Senate Republicans also became a more conservative group in the 112th Congress, while Senate Democrats remained mostly ideologically static."

truth alert... repubs moving to the right is ok... nothing wrong with it!

 

Dems standing pat? cmon... "ideologically static" ? static brainwaves more like it....

 

more unnecessary blame game stuff..... and why slip this garbage in an otherwise stellar post and responses?

[VaporTrail]

[/size]

truth alert... repubs moving to the right is ok... nothing wrong with it!

 

Dems standing pat? cmon... "ideologically static" ? static brainwaves more like it....

 

more unnecessary blame game stuff..... and why slip this garbage in an otherwise stellar post and responses?

 

Actually, there is something wrong with it because it's those fringe nuts that are bringing their entire party down. You can't nominate a presidential candidate that stands a good chance in the general election because of the religious right's insistence on legislating the morality of social issues.

[heckofajobbrownie]

The man proves my point.