Draft Thoughts 2013

[Assmunch]

Rambo also played on a Defense where 6 guys from his defense were picked before him, including the SS that played next to him. There was a reason he went in the 6th round. Once again the draft is over and lets just see how our guys end up playing.

Meanwhile, I sat in the stands, a few dozen yards from the Georgia defense, and got a birds eye view of the speed and effectiveness of Rambo on the field and he was very competitive, athletically, with guys like Ogletree and Jones. This guy is a stud player. What held him back in the draft, in my judgment, is his reputation as being immature.

[Unsympathetic]

If Bleacher Report is your best defense.. you're going to have a long day.

 

 

Rambo:

"Rambo is a better football player than all-around athlete. While he has quick feet and a quick and compact backpedal, he is tight in hips, which limits his ability to flip hips to change directions fast. On film and at his pro day, Rambo struggled when he had to turn and run out of pedal and could not transition out of pedal quick enough to close fast on passes in front of him out of a pedal. Although he has shown the ability to be a strong open field tackler, too often his tackling technique is an issue. He has a bad habit of either stopping feet and lunging/diving to try and make low tackle or staying upright and becomes a catch tackler - These both lead to him missing too many tackles."

 

Slaughter:

"Slaughter is a very good athlete with the speed needed to run with TEs and slot receivers in man coverage. He stays low in his pedal and is fluid transitioning on his flip, allowing him to consistently maintain proper positioning when in man coverage. When playing zone coverage in the box he is physical with receivers through his area and does a good job of reading the QB and maintaining discipline with his assignment. Despite having just average size, he is a very effective player against the run when lined up in the box. He is aggressive and physical with blockers, allowing him to consistently shed in time to get involved in run support. He takes good angles of pursuit to the boundary and displays the ability to consistently break down in space and finish. He is a smooth, fluid athlete that stays disciplined in his assignments and his techniques, allowing him to be extremely effective in all types of coverage. He possesses the speed to cover most slot receivers in man to man, and the physicality to take on flex TEs. Slaughter is also impressive against the run, as he is aggressive with blockers and consistently breaks down to finish tackles in space."

 

 

Between the 2 players, I think the Browns FO made the right decision. But 6th round players are rarely on the roster for even one season, let alone more than that.. so none of this may matter. I think the current FO did a great job identifying under-the-radar players with quality-starter-level skillsets.

[BadNewsBrowns]

 

Where, exactly, is this "word" coming from? Please link your source. NFL.com and the football post state precisely the opposite on McFadden.

 

 

from NFL.com

Weaknesses

Struggles to always get a good jam at the line of scrimmage, which gives him some issues in recovery. His size gives him some issues against bigger, more physical wide receivers. A bit gun shy in handling blocks from lineman in the screen game. Doesn't wrap up, often times attempts the cut tacke, which wont always be effective against stronger, more elusive NFL ballcarriers.

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't sound like a very physical guy, he's small and not very fast for his size, plus he's got a below average vertical. He'll have to grow up fast in the NFL if he's our projected starter.

 

I just hope they don't throw him to the wolves and his confidence gets shot before he has time to develop.

 

Banner says something like" well we don't want to invest in new talent because we want another year to judge the young talent we have now" so how does the same not apply to buster skrine?

 

Former NFL cb Corey Chavous was on the radio today and said he likes Mcfadden as a nickel, I guess he didn't get the flyer that he might be starting.

[BadNewsBrowns]

Heard today that Slaughter not only has this achiles but also had previous work on an ankle and both knees ? Tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

 

 

Can't believe we're talking about a 6th rounder like it's the golden goose.

[cambridgeho]

The Cards are already in the news for wanting to give Tyrann no guaranteed money on his rookie contract. For his defense, they know what they were getting when they drafted him.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/mathieus-agent-says-no-contract-without-guaranteed-money/

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/mathieu-should-refuse-deal-that-contains-no-guaranteed-money/

 

 

Florio loves to cause shit.

[Assmunch]

If Bleacher Report is your best defense.. you're going to have a long day.

 

 

Rambo:

"Rambo is a better football player than all-around athlete. While he has quick feet and a quick and compact backpedal, he is tight in hips, which limits his ability to flip hips to change directions fast. On film and at his pro day, Rambo struggled when he had to turn and run out of pedal and could not transition out of pedal quick enough to close fast on passes in front of him out of a pedal. Although he has shown the ability to be a strong open field tackler, too often his tackling technique is an issue. He has a bad habit of either stopping feet and lunging/diving to try and make low tackle or staying upright and becomes a catch tackler - These both lead to him missing too many tackles."

 

Slaughter:

"Slaughter is a very good athlete with the speed needed to run with TEs and slot receivers in man coverage. He stays low in his pedal and is fluid transitioning on his flip, allowing him to consistently maintain proper positioning when in man coverage. When playing zone coverage in the box he is physical with receivers through his area and does a good job of reading the QB and maintaining discipline with his assignment. Despite having just average size, he is a very effective player against the run when lined up in the box. He is aggressive and physical with blockers, allowing him to consistently shed in time to get involved in run support. He takes good angles of pursuit to the boundary and displays the ability to consistently break down in space and finish. He is a smooth, fluid athlete that stays disciplined in his assignments and his techniques, allowing him to be extremely effective in all types of coverage. He possesses the speed to cover most slot receivers in man to man, and the physicality to take on flex TEs. Slaughter is also impressive against the run, as he is aggressive with blockers and consistently breaks down to finish tackles in space."

 

 

Between the 2 players, I think the Browns FO made the right decision. But 6th round players are rarely on the roster for even one season, let alone more than that.. so none of this may matter. I think the current FO did a great job identifying under-the-radar players with quality-starter-level skillsets.

Meanwhile, here's the Associated Press first-team all america safeties from 2011. I don't see Mr. Slaughter on that list! Note that Rambo is so bad he made THREE all america teams as noted in the parens.

 

Safety

• Mark Barron, Alabama -- UNANIMOUS -- (AFCA, AP, FWAA, TSN, WCFF, CBS, ESPN, PFW, Scout.com, SI, Yahoo!)
• Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State (AFCA, SI)
• T. J. McDonald, Southern California (TSN, PFW)
• Bacarri Rambo, Georgia (AP, Scout.com, Yahoo!)

[Assmunch]

The Cards are already in the news for wanting to give Tyrann no guaranteed money on his rookie contract. For his defense, they know what they were getting when they drafted him.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/mathieus-agent-says-no-contract-without-guaranteed-money/

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/29/mathieu-should-refuse-deal-that-contains-no-guaranteed-money/

 

 

Florio loves to cause shit.

Tyrann is going to be a huge distraction for Arizona. Don't surprised if he gets cut coming out of training camp. Maybe they'll have Tim Tebow mentor him -- Tebow has lots of time on his hands now.

[Assmunch]

Heard today that Slaughter not only has this achiles but also had previous work on an ankle and both knees ? Tried looking it up but couldn't find anything.

 

 

Can't believe we're talking about a 6th rounder like it's the golden goose.

Probably another Browns GM in love withNotre Dame. But this isn't as bad as Savage and the Brady Quinn fiasco.

[The Gipper]

 

Meanwhile, here's the Associated Press first-team all america safeties from 2011. I don't see Mr. Slaughter on that list! Note that Rambo is so bad he made THREE all america teams as noted in the parens.

 

Safety

• Mark Barron, Alabama -- UNANIMOUS -- (AFCA, AP, FWAA, TSN, WCFF, CBS, ESPN, PFW, Scout.com, SI, Yahoo!)
• Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State (AFCA, SI)
• T. J. McDonald, Southern California (TSN, PFW)
• Bacarri Rambo, Georgia (AP, Scout.com, Yahoo!)

 

Bottom line: if he was good, then why did 10,000 other picks go by before he was taken? I was tracking the situation because I though he may have been a viable choice for the Browns, but when they made their trades that screwed that up....but Rambo never came off the board...so I figured all the teams must have had some issues with him.

Again, I would not have minded if the Browns took him....but they were not as impressed by him as you were...and neither were those other teams apparently..

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Bottom line: if he was good, then why did 10,000 other picks go by before he was taken? I was tracking the situation because I though he may have been a viable choice for the Browns, but when they made their trades that screwed that up....but Rambo never came off the board...so I figured all the teams must have had some issues with him.

Again, I would not have minded if the Browns took him....but they were not as impressed by him as you were...and neither were those other teams apparently..

He was a high risk pick based on off-the-field concerns. His talent level is undeniable but teams were afraid he'd resort to his old ways once he got some money in his pocket. Same thing that happened to Mathieu, same thing that happened to Burfict.

 

At some point, we're going to have to take another risk. We can't keep drafting safe picks that are considered less talented but have good character. We have to have an insanely talented risk pick somewhere.

 

Character doesn't win football games.

[cambridgeho]

We all thought Rambo was 2-3 round talent. He must had terrible interviews or something. For his talent not to be taken until mid 6th round is kinda unreal. As for Burfict, and La Garret Blount, they we just assholes in college, and teams stayed away from drafting them, they did turn out to be pretty good players. I think them not getting drafted them took them off that ego pedestal and back down to earth. The guys to pop positive may never smoke again after they are brought back down to earth also. For Tyrann, I think failing so many tests and given a chance to redeem himself and then getting caught with weed at a party and then getting kicked off LSU, then missing a whole year really hurt his stock. The other thing on him was his size, 5'8" is pretty small for a DB, people say he would be a nickle back, I was going to compare him to Adam Jones, but he is even bigger than Tyrann. I wonder where he would have been drafted last year had he played the year and elected to declare. With all the DBs taken last year in the first 2 rounds, he may have still been a 3rd rounder. With they way last year went for us and the players we had I still think we would have not drafted him.

[The Gipper]

He was a high risk pick based on off-the-field concerns. His talent level is undeniable but teams were afraid he'd resort to his old ways once he got some money in his pocket. Same thing that happened to Mathieu, same thing that happened to Burfict.

 

At some point, we're going to have to take another risk. We can't keep drafting safe picks that are considered less talented but have good character. We have to have an insanely talented risk pick somewhere.

 

Character doesn't win football games.

Well, you got your wish granted when they drafted Armonty Bryant. Apparently his history caused him to rate much lower than his talent suggests.

 

Happy now?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Well, you got your wish granted when they drafted Armonty Bryant. Apparently his history caused him to rate much lower than his talent suggests.

 

Happy now?

Yes, to a certain extent but he was rated fourth round the very highest.

 

I'd like to see us take a chance on a first round guy that's fallen to the second or third.

[The Gipper]

Yes, to a certain extent but he was rated fourth round the very highest.

 

I'd like to see us take a chance on a first round guy that's fallen to the second or third.

Baby steps. Baby steps.

[cambridgeho]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9228472/justin-blackmon-jacksonville-jaguars-suspended-four-games

Here is another trouble maker I am glad we didnt get.

[Assmunch]

Bottom line: if he was good, then why did 10,000 other picks go by before he was taken? I was tracking the situation because I though he may have been a viable choice for the Browns, but when they made their trades that screwed that up....but Rambo never came off the board...so I figured all the teams must have had some issues with him.

Again, I would not have minded if the Browns took him....but they were not as impressed by him as you were...and neither were those other teams apparently..

Fair statement. Keep an eye on Rambo with the Redskins. Fun to discuss all this!

[Assmunch]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9228472/justin-blackmon-jacksonville-jaguars-suspended-four-games

Here is another trouble maker I am glad we didnt get.

Blackmon led all rookie receivers in yards gained in 2012, but he got a lot of that in one monster game against Houston. Gordon was third in yards gained by a rookie receiver, behind Hilton of Indy. I am so glad the Browns passed on Blackmon, and probably Kendall Wright, who had only an OK year with 630 some yards gained, nearly 200 behind Gordon.

[The Gipper]

Fair statement. Keep an eye on Rambo with the Redskins. Fun to discuss all this!

Again, now an NFC guy...nothing to worry about.

 

As stated, more concerned about Shamarko Thomas and Matt Elam.

[Unsympathetic]

Although we needed the upgrades we got through this draft, next year we definitely need to take about 3 OG to make sure 2 of them are good. After taking a new QB, if needed. Every year, the teams that go to the super bowl have good talent at all OL and DL positions.. we've got the D, both OT, and of course C -- it's the OG that need help.

 

Many teams build from the outside-in, but championship teams are built inside-out every time.

 

Think about it: Jerry Rice, the best WR of all time, touched the ball... 5 times each game. He was drafted by a team who had easily won the super bowl the season before and finished #2 in scoring offense - but their leading receiver that year was Roger Craig. WR's do not change anything.. it's all about the OL/DL. Even the 49ers last year got into the WR-in-the-first act with AJ Jenkins, and he never saw the field. 5.3% of Lions plays this past year ended with Calvin Johnson catching a pass.. the best season by a WR in history.. and he had the same number of TD's as Gordon.

 

Bottom line: It is ridiculous, utterly ridiculous, to dish out megabucks to a guy who, in a great year, might touch the ball on just 5 percent of NFL snaps and do little to nothing 95 percent of the time.

 

Yes, a Browns player from the 2013 draft is an example of tremendously efficient value.

[Assmunch]

Again, now an NFC guy...nothing to worry about.

 

As stated, more concerned about Shamarko Thomas and Matt Elam.

In my view, Matt Elam was the second best defensive secondary starter in the SEC last year. I have no doubt that Elam will be in the Pro Bowl at some point -- he sure impressed me as I saw all of Florida's games.

[Assmunch]

Although we needed the upgrades we got through this draft, next year we definitely need to take about 3 OG to make sure 2 of them are good. After taking a new QB, if needed. Every year, the teams that go to the super bowl have good talent at all OL and DL positions.. we've got the D, both OT, and of course C -- it's the OG that need help.

 

Many teams build from the outside-in, but championship teams are built inside-out every time.

 

Think about it: Jerry Rice, the best WR of all time, touched the ball... 5 times each game. He was drafted by a team who had easily won the super bowl the season before and finished #2 in scoring offense - but their leading receiver that year was Roger Craig. WR's do not change anything.. it's all about the OL/DL. Even the 49ers last year got into the WR-in-the-first act with AJ Jenkins, and he never saw the field. 5.3% of Lions plays this past year ended with Calvin Johnson catching a pass.. the best season by a WR in history.. and he had the same number of TD's as Gordon.

 

Bottom line: It is ridiculous, utterly ridiculous, to dish out megabucks to a guy who, in a great year, might touch the ball on just 5 percent of NFL snaps and do little to nothing 95 percent of the time.

 

Yes, a Browns player from the 2013 draft is an example of tremendously efficient value.

I have a feeling this Gilkey kid is going to surprise us and challenge for a starting position at guard within the next two years.

[Canton Mike]

I have a feeling this Gilkey kid is going to surprise us and challenge for a starting position at guard within the next two years.

I agree. This kid seems very determined & has a mean streak.

 

Mike

[Assmunch]

I agree. This kid seems very determined & has a mean streak.

 

Mike

Really chuckled at this submission from a fan about the Browns' draft to Bud Shaw's column in the PD.

 

"Let's see. It took five pretty high-priced people in the 'war room' -- plus many others doing research and evaluations -- to draft a total of five players: An underweight linebacker, an undersized corner, a safety coming off an Achilles tear, a guy who dealt drugs and a lineman with a history of an irregular heartbeat. Another year without a sense of urgency. ... What am I missing?" -- Gary, Wickliffe

[The Gipper]

Really chuckled at this submission from a fan about the Browns' draft to Bud Shaw's column in the PD.

 

"Let's see. It took five pretty high-priced people in the 'war room' -- plus many others doing research and evaluations -- to draft a total of five players: An underweight linebacker, an undersized corner, a safety coming off an Achilles tear, a guy who dealt drugs and a lineman with a history of an irregular heartbeat. Another year without a sense of urgency. ... What am I missing?" -- Gary, Wickliffe

What he is missing is the fact that the hard work and effort leading into this draft was borne primarily by guys that were on Tom Heckert's scouting staff....and that Lombardi didn't give a shit what those guys did and wanted only to take a couple of guys he was high on....and defer a large part of this draft to next year when he and "his guys" are the ones doing the scouting and picking.

So....absolutely this shows that Lombardi did NOT know the talent in this draft....didn't want guys who he knew were going to be gone after the draft to have much input into this draft....and only wants success if it is His Guys, i.e. his scouts and the players they selects who are the ones that achieve that success. So...absolutely correct. Not only is there no sense of urgency....there is no desire for immediate success if the credit therefore could be attributed to his successor.

[PoeticG]

Does anybody care to take a shot on the players Heckert would have picked if he was still in charge? Would it have been that different?

[The Gipper]

Does anybody care to take a shot on the players Heckert would have picked if he was still in charge? Would it have been that different?

Impossible to know, really

[Assmunch]

What he is missing is the fact that the hard work and effort leading into this draft was borne primarily by guys that were on Tom Heckert's scouting staff....and that Lombardi didn't give a shit what those guys did and wanted only to take a couple of guys he was high on....and defer a large part of this draft to next year when he and "his guys" are the ones doing the scouting and picking.

So....absolutely this shows that Lombardi did NOT know the talent in this draft....didn't want guys who he knew were going to be gone after the draft to have much input into this draft....and only wants success if it is His Guys, i.e. his scouts and the players they selects who are the ones that achieve that success. So...absolutely correct. Not only is there no sense of urgency....there is no desire for immediate success if the credit therefore could be attributed to his successor.

I'm still perplexed why people are so high on Mingo -- I don't see it and I saw many of LSU's games, but I'll let the experts do the final judging. Also a bit perplexed why we took McFadden when several others corners were rated much higher by nearly everyone, but at least McFadden has a rep for being able to cover receivers. ( I'll never forget the confused look on Mel Kiper's face when the Browns took McFadden instead of Webb of Poser. ) I think the Slaughter pick was a big miss when Rambo was still there and we could have traded upjust afew places to get a better quality safety.

 

But I am intrigued by the 7th round picks and some of the FAs. I'm beginning to get a sneaking suspicion that this draft is going to be best known for the 7th rounders and UFAs more than the bigger name players. Browns may end up with the best OL in football in another year as Faulk and Gilkey could be big time players.

[Assmunch]

Does anybody care to take a shot on the players Heckert would have picked if he was still in charge? Would it have been that different?

Heckert would have probably traded down with the Rams. Selecting at #16 he would have taken Kenny Vaccaro, the S from Texas. In round two (with the Rams' second pick) , he would have taken a quality CB and then taken a TE in round three. That would have been just what the team needed!

 

Lombardi is an idiot for not trading with the Rams. Mingo wasn't worth sticking at #6.

[The Gipper]

I'm still perplexed why people are so high on Mingo -- I don't see it and I saw many of LSU's games, but I'll let the experts do the final judging. Also a bit perplexed why we took McFadden when several others corners were rated much higher by nearly everyone, but at least McFadden has a rep for being able to cover receivers. ( I'll never forget the confused look on Mel Kiper's face when the Browns took McFadden instead of Webb of Poser. ) I think the Slaughter pick was a big miss when Rambo was still there and we could have traded upjust afew places to get a better quality safety.

 

But I am intrigued by the 7th round picks and some of the FAs. I'm beginning to get a sneaking suspicion that this draft is going to be best known for the 7th rounders and UFAs more than the bigger name players. Browns may end up with the best OL in football in another year as Faulk and Gilkey could be big time players.

What YOU think, or what some particular expert here or there might think is irrelevent. Lombardi and Banners are the opinions that count...and far as experts....they all disagree anyway.

But, I hope you are right about the UDFAs.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Heckert would have probably traded down with the Rams. Selecting at #16 he would have taken Kenny Vaccaro, the S from Texas. In round two (with the Rams' second pick) , he would have taken a quality CB and then taken a TE in round three. That would have been just what the team needed!

 

Lombardi is an idiot for not trading with the Rams. Mingo wasn't worth sticking at #6.

I saw a report yesterday claiming that the Rams didn't, in fact, propose a trade with Cleveland. It claims that the Rams had actually locked up their trade the night before.