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mdmusch

Draft Thoughts 2013

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No talent in this draft? Most of the experts have been saying this draft is unusually deep, and I agree. Browns passed today on some fine cornerbacks and safeties that would have helped complete the journey toward development of a very competitive defense. Horrible decision by Lombardi not to engage in the draft today and fill out the defense. But this is why no teams were interested in Lombardi as a GM and why he has compiled such a bad track record. And there is Joe Banner, who thinks he knows all but has blind spots he is not aware of as manifested in the embarrassing showing today .

Sure there's depth, but you don't find immediate starters in the 4th and 5th rounds of a "depth" draft. Like I said, I think they had a few players in mind that were all picked before them. The question that should be asked is "Is this player I'm about to draft any better than the (1) players I have on my roster, or (2) a veteran UFA that is available at this position?".

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Thoughts on the recent trades... So smart. There isn't much talent out there today. At least not more than what they get in the 2nd wave of FA coming in a few weeks. Why not add some middle round picks for next year when the evaluation process of the team is more complete? I do think that if Simon weren't picked by the Seahawks, the Browns would've taken him. Since he was gone, so were they (with good value too). I've been really impressed by the way they've handled this off-season.

Not much talent out there today? Are you a Lombardi relative? Sure hasn't stopped all the activity involving nearly every other team in the NFL! Browns fans heard from years from Holmgrem about being patient. Browns fans have been patient for 14 years. Enough of this nonsense!

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Sure there's depth, but you don't find immediate starters in the 4th and 5th rounds of a "depth" draft. Like I said, I think they had a few players in mind that were all picked before them. The question that should be asked is "Is this player I'm about to draft any better than the (1) players I have on my roster, or (2) a veteran UFA that is available at this position?".

 

Nonsense. This is where a good scouting effort comes into play. What's shocking to me is that despite all the press about the Browns bringing in a bunch of players and spending a lot of time with them, they don't even bring in or spend a lot of time with their their critical #3 draft choice (at least that's what McFadden said)? If this happened in the professional world of business, the manager, Lombardi, would get fired.

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we finally made another pick. It only took them 107 picks

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Nonsense. This is where a good scouting effort comes into play. What's shocking to me is that despite all the press about the Browns bringing in a bunch of players and spending a lot of time with them, they don't even bring in or spend a lot of time with their their critical #3 draft choice (at least that's what McFadden said)? If this happened in the professional world of business, the manager, Lombardi, would get fired.

Not a relative... not even a fan of Lombardi. Fire him for all I care. If you think he's running this draft, you should be fired with him. If you have an issue, it's with Banner. Let's be clear about that...

 

Nonsense? Nonsense is the constant negativity with EVERYTHING this team does. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Tell me who exactly you would have taken in the 4th and 5th rounds. Clearly, you've done all the scouting and have talked to all of the college coaches and have ran an entire draft before. Let's go GM... You're on the clock.

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For all who want to know who will be a sr this year or draft eligible as a QB.

 

http://joshmitchell24.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/2014-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings/

 

 

There will be one for us to take in the 1st 3 round if we need to do so.

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Thoughts on the recent trades... So smart. There isn't much talent out there today. At least not more than what they get in the 2nd wave of FA coming in a few weeks. Why not add some middle round picks for next year when the evaluation process of the team is more complete? I do think that if Simon weren't picked by the Seahawks, the Browns would've taken him. Since he was gone, so were they (with good value too). I've been really impressed by the way they've handled this off-season.

We have an entire new coaching staff that have said they will play aggressively on D AND O. You're correct, we don't really know yet WHAT our real needs are. How will guys like Sheard, Robertson, J M Johnson, Forte, Bademosi, Skrine, etc adjust to & benefit from all our new philosophy & schemes? I'm excited...Yeah, I've been excited for over 50 years, but I love my Browns!

I also like the moves we have made.

 

Mike

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I like the McFadden pick. Brian Sipe is the QB coach at McFadden's school.

 

Also, McFadden is a baller -- you don't earn all-MWC honors 2 years in a row in the conference with Utah and Boise State without doing work. He was on the first watch list for the Thorpe award. Ranked #12 nationally in passes broken up with 17. Tabbed a midseason All-American (honorable mention) by Phil Steele. He also returns punts.

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:) The Slaughter kid could be a good pick providing he is healthy. I do like the Mingo and McFadden picks though. I also like picking up Bess from Miami. I don't know anything about our last two picks.

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I'm feeling a little better about the draft today. The thing that still bothers me and what I'll be watching for is who we took and who was still there for us to take when we took them.

 

Mingo/Jones

 

McFadden/Mathieu

 

Slaughter/Rambo

 

If we get better production in 2/3 of these guys then I'll consider this draft a win. But right now, I'm still burning about this. We'll see.

 

I like that they went and got Paul Kruger's brother, he could be the real deal. When I was learning up on Paul I came across Dave and I thought that I'd be nice to get him someday. I had NO idea that he was coming out this year. Maybe that's why I'm breathing a little easier today.

 

I do like the fact that we'll have 2 extra picks next year. Next year should be a better day to watch day 2 rounds 2/3. Then on day 3 we'll have 2 selections in that first round. We now have an even greater reason to wish ill will on the Steelers, and that's something that I can get behind.

 

I was excited about this team before the draft. The draft was what it was, now they need to find some Cribbs like players in UDFA and all will be well. The team has some serious killers on the front 7 and if that doesn't help McFadden and Haden be better corners I don't know what will.

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I'm feeling a little better about the draft today. The thing that still bothers me and what I'll be watching for is who we took and who was still there for us to take when we took them.

 

Mingo/Jones

 

McFadden/Mathieu

 

Slaughter/Rambo

 

If we get better production in 2/3 of these guys then I'll consider this draft a win. But right now, I'm still burning about this. We'll see.

 

I like that they went and got Paul Kruger's brother, he could be the real deal. When I was learning up on Paul I came across Dave and I thought that I'd be nice to get him someday. I had NO idea that he was coming out this year. Maybe that's why I'm breathing a little easier today.

 

I do like the fact that we'll have 2 extra picks next year. Next year should be a better day to watch day 2 rounds 2/3. Then on day 3 we'll have 2 selections in that first round. We now have an even greater reason to wish ill will on the Steelers, and that's something that I can get behind.

 

I was excited about this team before the draft. The draft was what it was, now they need to find some Cribbs like players in UDFA and all will be well. The team has some serious killers on the front 7 and if that doesn't help McFadden and Haden be better corners I don't know what will.

amazing what a good nights rest can do

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I'm feeling a little better about the draft today. The thing that still bothers me and what I'll be watching for is who we took and who was still there for us to take when we took them.

 

Mingo/Jones

 

McFadden/Mathieu

 

Slaughter/Rambo

 

If we get better production in 2/3 of these guys then I'll consider this draft a win. But right now, I'm still burning about this. We'll see.

 

I like that they went and got Paul Kruger's brother, he could be the real deal. When I was learning up on Paul I came across Dave and I thought that I'd be nice to get him someday. I had NO idea that he was coming out this year. Maybe that's why I'm breathing a little easier today.

 

I do like the fact that we'll have 2 extra picks next year. Next year should be a better day to watch day 2 rounds 2/3. Then on day 3 we'll have 2 selections in that first round. We now have an even greater reason to wish ill will on the Steelers, and that's something that I can get behind.

 

I was excited about this team before the draft. The draft was what it was, now they need to find some Cribbs like players in UDFA and all will be well. The team has some serious killers on the front 7 and if that doesn't help McFadden and Haden be better corners I don't know what will.

Again, this is just a case of you sniffing around the "big names" that you have heard of over people you haven't heard of. The thing is, one of the reasons you have heard of Rambo and Mathieu is because of the negative publicity they garnered for themselves.

McFadden and Slaughter did not have any negative publicity. They were not kicked of their team, they did not get suspended etc.

You are no more draft guru than I, but you have this celebrity complex.

Maybe the guys we got are the good, solid, even better players,......just not the publicity hounds you always tend to gravitate toward.

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Here's the conclusions from National Football Post's one page scouting report for each draft pick

 

McFadden: "He has very good overall athleticism and strong natural football instincts. He warrants third round consideration because of his solid overall football instincts and competitiveness, along with his ability to locate, and make plays on the ball. Overall, despite lacking elite playing speed, McFadden has all the tools to be a solid, productive starting cornerback in the NFL."

 

Slaughter: "Jamoris Slaughter has slipped through this draft season relatively unnoticed by the media because of the Achilles injury that cut his senior season short, but his play as a junior at Notre Dame is clearly on par or better than that of many of the 2nd tier prospects at the position this year. He will need to add another 10-15 lbs of bulk to his frame but if he can recover from his current injury and maintain his health long term, Slaughter has the skill set to develop into a starter."

 

Bryant: "With solid coaching, Bryant should be a starter by year 2 in the NFL. Overall, I expect some team to take a gamble on Bryant in the late 3rd or 4th round because players with natural pass rush skills and good athleticism are hard to find."

 

Gilkey: "A highly productive small school lineman, Gilkey has the size, strength, competitiveness and athleticism to eventually carry over his production to the NFL as a guard. He is far from ready to contribute as a rookie, but within a few seasons I expect to see him challenging for a starting job. Overall, I would not draft Gilkey in the first three rounds, but come the fifth or sixth round he is worth a gamble. While he is nowhere near the athlete that Jared Veldheer is, Gilkey was a more consistent blocker at Chadron State than Veldheer was at Hillsdale."

 

Mingo: "His use of hands, quickness and instincts help him to stay free from and avoid blocks and explode to the ball to make the play. If used as a wide rusher in a 43 scheme or an outside linebacker in a 34 scheme then I would definitely draft him in the first round as I believe he can be a dynamic play-maker who impacts games as a run defender and pass rusher."

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Again, this is just a case of you sniffing around the "big names" that you have heard of over people you haven't heard of. The thing is, one of the reasons you have heard of Rambo and Mathieu is because of the negative publicity they garnered for themselves.

McFadden and Slaughter did not have any negative publicity. They were not kicked of their team, they did not get suspended etc.

You are no more draft guru than I, but you have this celebrity complex.

Maybe the guys we got are the good, solid, even better players,......just not the publicity hounds you always tend to gravitate toward.

I didn't write the post you are referencing, but the reason I know Rambo is that I have seen him play in person! It's likely you are attacking him without having had the benefit of seeing him play in a bunch of games. Rambo is a far better athlete than most of the safeties in this draft and he will really help a team. I doubt Slaughter will be much of a help to the Browns this season.

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Yep, so give up your tickets, I will gladly use them to watch the Browns this year.

Well, my comments are that of a disappointed Browns fan. The team has tremendous weaknesses in the secondary and and even late they had a chance in the 4th and 5th rounds to add some secondary depth by acquiring some very good players like CBs Webb and Poser -- rated much higher than McFadden by nearly everybody -- or a couple of safeties who not only are pretty good players but players who are healthy, unlike Slaughter!

 

An effort should be made to put the best team possible on the field in 2013 and the management didn't do that. And why they couldn't sign a quality tight end or CB in free agency is beyond me. If Lombardi is supposed to be so good, he should have been able to accomplish that.

 

So despite having the most cap money in free agency and some prime picking spots in the draft, the Browns go into May with almost nothing of quality at tight end and safety and nothing of quality to back up Haden and McFadden. Enjoy your season tickets because all you are going to see are a lot of QBs on opposing teams going right at the weak points at free safety and CB and moving their teams up and down the field. It's nuts that this team has so much strength and numbers in the front seven but has almost nothing of quality in the secondary. That's just plain dumb in my opinion.

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And here is where I am hoping that my worries are unfounded.

Lots of salary cap space means more profit for ownership.

There is an amount they have to spend but when you keep it to that level the profits are substantial.

That's something that Mike Brown has been famous for down in Cincinnati.

With truck stop Jimmy falling upon hard financial and legal times what might we expect here?

 

Scenario one, he keeps the team and bleeds every last nickel out for legal fees.

 

Scenario two he loses the team and somebody much worse picks up the keys.

 

Scenario three he hires the Gipper as his attorney is found not guilty and we go to the Super Bowl in 2015.

WSS

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I didn't write the post you are referencing, but the reason I know Rambo is that I have seen him play in person! It's likely you are attacking him without having had the benefit of seeing him play in a bunch of games. Rambo is a far better athlete than most of the safeties in this draft and he will really help a team. I doubt Slaughter will be much of a help to the Browns this season.

So? You have seen him play in person. I have seen a Division III game in person. That doesn't mean I think the Browns should draft any of those players.

The guy to whom my comment was directed almost always falls in love with hyped up players.

If the Browns had drafted Rambo, I would have been fine with that....because I too have heard of him....because of his checkered background. Whether he is a better athlete is irrelevent. What I want is the better football player.

The Browns talent evaluators thought Slaughter the better player.....so, I hate to keep using this idiom,,, but the fact is the Browns FO is paid to do this and you are not. I suspect the Browns scouts too saw Rambo play.....and Slaughter..

I guess when it comes to your amateur opinion or their professional opinion....you know who I vote for.

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I'll say it again: the Browns deserve a B draft grade simply for not taking Geno Smith. Mingo is a boom or bust prospect but he won't set the franchise back 3 years if he sucks. Weeden will get to show his true colors this year. If Not 2014 is already shaping up to be about as good as the 2012 QB class. Relax and let these guys play football.

 

Plus with all these extra picks in 2014, we might be able to package up for a franchise QB should we need one.

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I disagree completely with the negativity about Slaughter and McFadden.

 

McFadden only lacks things he can't change.. his height and top-end speed. He'll never run a 4.2, but he did run a 4.50 -- faster than both of the Seahawks corners. His projection is that of a solid starter in the NFL - which is why his NFL.com draft comparison is Brent Grimes. As the Browns quoted about him, "He just makes plays."

 

Slaughter's junior year was better than Rambo's junior year.. pre-injury, he was slated to be at the top of the FS board after Reid/Vaccaro. Although the injury does suck, I'm glad to see the Browns taking a shot at getting an outstanding player.

 

The other picks were all expected to be drafted higher. IMHO this draft is a win.

 

*For the first time I can remember, all of our WR will be proven young players.

*We have the flexibility next year to get one of the top4 QB's who are all franchise-level, unlike this draft where Weeden is easily better than everyone out there.

*All of our picks are slated to be solid starters, perhaps not year 1 but they have the skills to get there.

 

*IF Mingo can add 10 pounds of muscle and maintain his speed, he'll be special

 

The only weakness of this draft was not drafting good OL sooner than the 7th round. The one thing all super bowl champions have is tremendous strength at both OL and DL.. and we're there on DL, but not yet on OL.

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So? You have seen him play in person. I have seen a Division III game in person. That doesn't mean I think the Browns should draft any of those players.

The guy to whom my comment was directed almost always falls in love with hyped up players.

If the Browns had drafted Rambo, I would have been fine with that....because I too have heard of him....because of his checkered background. Whether he is a better athlete is irrelevent. What I want is the better football player.

The Browns talent evaluators thought Slaughter the better player.....so, I hate to keep using this idiom,,, but the fact is the Browns FO is paid to do this and you are not. I suspect the Browns scouts too saw Rambo play.....and Slaughter..

I guess when it comes to your amateur opinion or their professional opinion....you know who I vote for.

Well, certainly my opinion is that of an amateur vs. a paid NFL scoutand you make solid points about that. The Browns scouting should be far superior to my eye. But I am often right about what I see. I expect Baccari Rambo, Alex Ogletree and John Jenkins from the 2012 Georgia squad to be solid NFL players. I think Jarvis Jones is a bit overrated and I have the same view of Barky Mingo of the Browns. Another player on the 2012 Georgia squad the Browns should have looked at is a safety named Williams and the University of Florida had two safeties who are going to be find footballers in the NFL. All will be better than Slaughter, in my opinion. The Browns really blew it re the secondary this off-season unless they have a plan we aren't privy to in this free agency period 2. I believe Horton's old decent safety, Kerry Rhodes, is still available, but there are reasons he is still on the market I'd rather avoid discussing.

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I disagree completely with the negativity about Slaughter and McFadden.

 

McFadden only lacks things he can't change.. his height and top-end speed. He'll never run a 4.2, but he did run a 4.50 -- faster than both of the Seahawks corners. His projection is that of a solid starter in the NFL - which is why his NFL.com draft comparison is Brent Grimes. As the Browns quoted about him, "He just makes plays."

 

Slaughter's junior year was better than Rambo's junior year.. pre-injury, he was slated to be at the top of the FS board after Reid/Vaccaro. Although the injury does suck, I'm glad to see the Browns taking a shot at getting an outstanding player.

 

The other picks were all expected to be drafted higher. IMHO this draft is a win.

 

*For the first time I can remember, all of our WR will be proven young players.

*We have the flexibility next year to get one of the top4 QB's who are all franchise-level, unlike this draft where Weeden is easily better than everyone out there.

*All of our picks are slated to be solid starters, perhaps not year 1 but they have the skills to get there.

 

*IF Mingo can add 10 pounds of muscle and maintain his speed, he'll be special

 

The only weakness of this draft was not drafting good OL sooner than the 7th round. The one thing all super bowl champions have is tremendous strength at both OL and DL.. and we're there on DL, but not yet on OL.

Re Slaughter's junior year better than Rambo's, no offense, but the caliber of competition Rambo played against is superior to what Slaughter played against. We saw that play out in the national title game last season. I'd add that Rambo is fresh off playing most of a 2012 season, including a bowl game in January, while Slaughter hasn't played since last September and is coming off a fairly severe injury. I would have taken Rambo or any of a half dozen or more other safeties that were available in rounds 4-7.

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I'll say it again: the Browns deserve a B draft grade simply for not taking Geno Smith. Mingo is a boom or bust prospect but he won't set the franchise back 3 years if he sucks. Weeden will get to show his true colors this year. If Not 2014 is already shaping up to be about as good as the 2012 QB class. Relax and let these guys play football.

 

Plus with all these extra picks in 2014, we might be able to package up for a franchise QB should we need one.

It's clear to me the Browns are going to go all out to get the #2 pick in the 2014 NFL Draft and take QB Terry Bridgewater. No doubt in my mind that the #1 pick in the 2014 draft will be Clowney, the great DE from South Carolina. This assumes both players are healthy after next season.

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I don't think an extra 3rd and 4th is enough ammo to trade up for a potential franchise QB, in terms of ammo it's like I'm handing you a knife and sling shot and telling you to go kill that bear.

 

 

A little worried about this Mcfadden,word on him is he doesn't like to hit and he's just under 5'9 with a 34 inch vertical? This guy better cover like Deion.

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Well, certainly my opinion is that of an amateur vs. a paid NFL scoutand you make solid points about that. The Browns scouting should be far superior to my eye. But I am often right about what I see. I expect Baccari Rambo, Alex Ogletree and John Jenkins from the 2012 Georgia squad to be solid NFL players. I think Jarvis Jones is a bit overrated and I have the same view of Barky Mingo of the Browns. Another player on the 2012 Georgia squad the Browns should have looked at is a safety named Williams and the University of Florida had two safeties who are going to be find footballers in the NFL. All will be better than Slaughter, in my opinion. The Browns really blew it re the secondary this off-season unless they have a plan we aren't privy to in this free agency period 2. I believe Horton's old decent safety, Kerry Rhodes, is still available, but there are reasons he is still on the market I'd rather avoid discussing.

Well, you said you like Rambo because you saw him. Contrarily, can I assume you did not see Slaughter play? Thus, I will assume that you are not able to grade his capability.

Bottom line: Here is my attitude: Jamoris Slaughter is now a Cleveland Brown, Baccari Rambo is not....so screw him, I hope he does suck...or fuck up like his reputation.

Had we take Rambo, I would have the opposite attitude.

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I don't think an extra 3rd and 4th is enough ammo to trade up for a potential franchise QB, in terms of ammo it's like I'm handing you a knife and sling shot and telling you to go kill that bear.

 

 

A little worried about this Mcfadden,word on him is he doesn't like to hit and he's just under 5'9 with a 34 inch vertical? This guy better cover like Deion.

I would bet you that there are a hundred "words on" McFadden all at variance with each other. Every asshole has an opinion, and ever opinion has an asshole.

opinions-are-like-assholes-everybodys-go

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word on him is he doesn't like to hit

 

Where, exactly, is this "word" coming from? Please link your source. NFL.com and the football post state precisely the opposite on McFadden.

 

 

Re Slaughter's junior year better than Rambo's, no offense, but the caliber of competition Rambo played against is superior to what Slaughter played against. We saw that play out in the national title game last season.

 

No, we didn't. Slaughter in 2011 outperformed Rambo in 2011 and was a higher prospect than Rambo for the 2013 draft. Games in 2012 have zero bearing on that. And Slaughter 2012 pre-injury was better than Slaughter 2011.

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Re Slaughter's junior year better than Rambo's, no offense, but the caliber of competition Rambo played against is superior to what Slaughter played against. We saw that play out in the national title game last season. I'd add that Rambo is fresh off playing most of a 2012 season, including a bowl game in January, while Slaughter hasn't played since last September and is coming off a fairly severe injury. I would have taken Rambo or any of a half dozen or more other safeties that were available in rounds 4-7.

Rambo also played on a Defense where 6 guys from his defense were picked before him, including the SS that played next to him. There was a reason he went in the 6th round. Once again the draft is over and lets just see how our guys end up playing.

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Where, exactly, is this "word" coming from? Please link your source. NFL.com and the football post state precisely the opposite on McFadden.

 

 

 

No, we didn't. Slaughter in 2011 outperformed Rambo in 2011 and was a higher prospect than Rambo for the 2013 draft. Games in 2012 have zero bearing on that. And Slaughter 2012 pre-injury was better than Slaughter 2011.

Oh, so even though Rambo had 8 interceptions in 2011 and made first team all conference and fist team all-america playing in the SEC, not the Pop Warner League teams Salughter played against, Slaughter was much better than him. Thanks for the laugh!

 

Some excerpts from a Bleacher Report item about Rambo:

"The next season (2010), Rambo started all 13 games at free safety. He recorded 82 tackles (five for losses), three interceptions, three forced fumbles and three passes defensed. He was named third-team All-SEC.

In 2011, Rambo put together his finest collegiate season. Over 13 starts, Rambo totaled 52 tackles (two for losses), eight interceptions, eight passes defensed and one fumble recovery. He was named a first team all america and first team all-SEC."

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