ballpeen Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Just acknowledge it is far easier to drop then it is to rise...especially for a guy near the the top. You are putting his basement in the 20's. It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1. You have to consider how far down a person could go....McGahee was a exception. Sever injuries usually drop top players pretty far. So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then. The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK39 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah, I meant the Shrine game. Sorry to confuse. I was more disappointed because my boy Chase Daniel sucked it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Just acknowledge it is far easier to drop then it is to rise...especially for a guy near the the top. You are putting his basement in the 20's. Never said it's his basement. But you have to deal with likely scenarios. Forecasting based on a patella tendon tear is pretty hard. I mean, how high would the likelihood of that happening have to be for him to give up on the chance to make an additional $15-18M? And can you give me some names of guys who went to the Senior Bowl projected to be taken in the early teens who had their draft stocks slide? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. On the other hand, Sedrick Ellis ('08), Amobi Okoye ('07), and D'Brickashaw Ferguson ('06) all elevated themselves into or higher into the top 10 with great Senior Bowl week performances. It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1. Um, okay...but we were talking about the possibly of him rising 4 draft spots vs. the possibility of dropping 15. So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then. I'll let you do your own research. I'm content that the analysis I've put forward is how actual agents & players look at things. Otherwise, Maualuga wouldn't be participating. The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same. Last I checked, Maualuga is playing. Laurinaitis is the one who declined an invitation. My whole analysis, based on the premise that Rey could make it into the top 10, likely doesn't apply to Laurinaitis. But I'm still inclined to believe that he should have accepted the invitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Doh!! Either way...it doesn't always pay, nor does it pay to get into discussions with you after a few too many beverages and being ticked we are 1 of 5 teams not to go to the Bowl. I do think it doesn't pay for many to play in these games, and back to my first point....these games are from a bygone era...I don't think they are all that important for top players. They are best for 3rd rounders and below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Fair enough. But three guys in the past three years have made their way up or into the top 10 based on solid Senior Bowl week performances. Those guys didn't make a mistake. And if Maualuga plays well enough that Jack Del Rio decides he has to take him at 8, I doubt Rey Rey will think he made a mistake either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Fair enough here as well....though I don't think Rey was going to drop to 12 anyway...that seems kind of far to me....my impression is he is a top 10 pick type player.....maybe not top 5.....but even then he is a player you give more than fleeting consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK39 Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I still think Rey is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well, you'd like to think the Senior Bowl is relevant... but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds.... But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster, just for fun. Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL... (HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !) SENIOR BOWL 1999 ROSTER -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- North QB-- Donovan McNabb, Syracuse QB-- Joe Germaine, Ohio State RB-- Mike Cloud, Boston College RB-- Autry Denson, Notre Dame RB-- Devin West, Missouri RB-- Joel Makovicka, Nebraska RB-- Rob Konrad, Syracuse WR-- Darrin Chiaverini, Colorado WR-- Torry Holt, N.C. State WR-- Dee Miller, Ohio State WR-- Craig Yeast, Kentucky WR-- Darran Hall, Colorado State WR-- Tai Streets, Michigan WR-- Kevin Johnson, Syracuse TE-- Jim Kleinsasser, North Dakota TE-- Cuncho Brown, Penn State OL-- Grey Ruegamer, Arizona State OL-- Luke Petitgout, Notre Dame OL-- Mike Rosenthal, Notre Dame OL-- Jeremy Offutt, Oklahoma State OL-- Floyd Wedderburn, Penn State OL-- Lennie Friedman, Duke OL-- Tony Coats, Washington OL-- Doug Brzezinski, Boston College OL-- L.J. Shelton, Eastern Michigan OL-- Anthony Cesario, Colorado State DL-- Joey Porter, Colorado State DL-- Chad Kelsay, Nebraska DL-- Lamar King, Saginaw Valley DL-- Tom Burke, Wisconsin DL-- Mike Rucker, Nebraska DL-- Aaron Smith, Northern Colorado DL-- Jared DeVries, Iowa DL-- John Thornton, West Virginia DL-- Kelly Gregg, Oklahoma DL-- Jason Wiltz, Nebraska LB-- Kory Minor, Notre Dame LB-- Hannibal Navies, Colorado LB-- Matt Hughes, Iowa LB-- Eric Barton, Maryland LB-- Gary Stills, West Virginia LB-- Barry Gardner, Northwestern DB-- Daylon McCutcheon, USC DB-- Eric Edwards, Oregon DB-- Damon Moore, Ohio State DB-- Charles Fisher, West Virginia DB-- Marquis Smith, California DB-- Ty Talton, Northern Iowa DB-- Marcus Washington, Colorado K-- Martin Gramatica, Kansas State P-- Scott Shields, Weber State South QB-- Shaun King, Tulane QB-- Scott Covington, Miami QB-- Cade McNown, UCLA RB-- Kevin Faulk, LSU RB-- Brian Shay, Emporia State RB-- James Johnson, Mississippi State RB-- Terry Jackson, Florida RB-- Shawn Bryson, Tennessee WR-- Karsten Bailey, Auburn WR-- Quincy Jackson, Alabama WR-- Na Brown, North Carolina WR-- Jeremaine Copeland, Tennessee WR-- Travis McGriff, Florida WR-- Peerless Price, Tennessee WR-- Troy Edwards, Louisiana Tech TE-- Larry Brown, Georgia TE-- Reggie Kelly, Mississippi State OL-- Derrick Fletcher, Baylor OL-- Jamar Nesbit, South Carolina OL-- Zach Piller, Florida OL-- Chris Terry, Georgia OL-- Randy Thomas, Mississippi State OL-- Todd McClure, LSU OL-- Jason Gamble, Clemson OL-- Rex Tucker, Texas A&M OL-- Brandon Burlsworth, Arkansas OL-- Cameron Spikes, Texas A&M OL-- Jay Humphrey, Texas DL-- Montae Reagor, Texas Tech DL-- Antonio Dingle, Virginia DL-- Tony Bryant, Florida State DL-- Adrian Dingle, Clemson DL-- Ebenezer Ekuban, North Carolina DL-- Charles Dorsey, Auburn DL-- Anthony McFarland, LSU DL-- Russell Davis, North Carolina DL-- Marcus Spriggs, Troy State LB-- Dat Nguyen, Texas A&M LB-- Keith Newman, North Carolina LB-- Al Wilson, Tennessee LB-- Mike Peterson, Florida LB-- Lamont Green, Florida State LB-- Rod Coleman, East Carolina LB-- Johnny Rutledge, Florida DB-- Kelvin Sigler, Alabama DB-- Tony George, Florida DB-- Antwan Edwards, Clemson DB-- Jacoby Rhinehart, SMU DB-- Chris Cummings, LSU DB-- Fernando Bryant, Alabama DB-- Dexter Jackson, Florida State DB-- Steve Johnson, Tennessee DB-- Rich Coady, Texas A&M K-- Chris Sailer, UCLA K-- Brad Palazzo, Tulane P-- Daniel Pope, Alabama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well, you'd like to think the Senior Bowl is relevant... but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds.... Ngata declared as a junior because he wanted to pay for some ill family members' medical treatment. He didn't play in the Senior Bowl. But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster, just for fun. Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL... (HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !) I love the talent on those rosters. Here's a shorter list of guys who've made an impact in the NFL: Torry Holt - Hall of Fame receiver Joey Porter - elite pass-rusher Aaron Smith - phenomenal 3-4 DE Kelly Gregg - very good NT for the Ravens Mike Rucker - 55.5 career sacks Eric Barton - 119 tackles last year Jamar Nesbit - starting OG for close to 10 years Mike Peterson - 1000 career tackles, 19.5 sacks Al Wilson - 712 career tackles, 21.5 sacks Kevin Johnson - was a decent receiver for us L.J. Shelton - semi-decent NFL RT Jim Kleinsasser - utility FB-TE's been in the league for a while Luke Petitgout - was the Giants' left tackle until his body gave out Ebenezer Ekuban - 36.5 career sacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 You're right, I meant Ngata for Oregon in their -bowl game-. same idea. But it's a far longer list than those you mentioned. cherry picking. there are a ton of those who never made much of a difference at all, or even made it to the NFL, as far as I know. As usual, you quibble and miss the point. But yours and Stan's guy, Joe Jermaine, is indicative of the senior bowl being just another game where some make it, some don't. Not much relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Are you serious?! You said "not many good players" and I list at least one future hall of famer & several guys who've been to the pro bowl. Sure, not every guy who played in the '99 Senior Bowl has made it to Hawaii. But how many players in each draft class do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well, you'd like to think the Senior Bowl is relevant... but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds.... But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster, just for fun. Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL... (HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !) Interesting Cal! Here's a few of those names that made some degree of NFL impact so there will be some finds in this game; BUT let's also remember Frye was the MVP of this 1 game for what that was worth: QB-- Donovan McNabb, Syracuse WR-- Torry Holt, N.C. State WR-- Kevin Johnson, Syracuse TE-- Jim Kleinsasser, North Dakota OL-- Luke Petitgout, Notre Dame OL-- Mike Rosenthal, Notre Dame DL-- Joey Porter, Colorado State DL-- Chad Kelsay, Nebraska DL-- Mike Rucker, Nebraska DL-- Aaron Smith, Northern Colorado DL-- Jared DeVries, Iowa DL-- John Thornton, West Virginia DL-- Kelly Gregg, Oklahoma DL-- Jason Wiltz, Nebraska LB-- Eric Barton, Maryland LB-- Gary Stills, West Virginia LB-- Barry Gardner, Northwestern DB-- Daylon McCutcheon, USC DB-- Marcus Washington, Colorado K-- Martin Gramatica, Kansas State QB-- Shaun King, Tulane RB-- Kevin Faulk, LSU RB-- Terry Jackson, Florida RB-- Shawn Bryson, Tennessee WR-- Peerless Price, Tennessee WR-- Troy Edwards, Louisiana Tech TE-- Larry Brown, Georgia TE-- Reggie Kelly, Mississippi State OL-- Zach Piller, Florida OL-- Rex Tucker, Texas A&M DL-- Ebenezer Ekuban, North Carolina DL-- Anthony McFarland, LSU LB-- Dat Nguyen, Texas A&M LB-- Al Wilson, Tennessee LB-- Mike Peterson, Florida DB-- Fernando Bryant, Alabama - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'll wager Charlie Frye made more of an impact than Shaun King, and Grammatica. Hey, I'm a computer guy and farmer, I don't get around much. Most of those guys I never even heard of. I just consider the percentage of those who made it to the NFL and did much at all, just an expected ratio of seniors. and, given that obviously, juniors are all over the first couple of rounds of the draft, I don't see the senior bowl as being very relevant. Charlie Frye was considered about a high third rounder before the senior bowl... etc. and after being the games MVP, he was drafted... in the third round. Just an example. The real question is, did the senior bowl change any freakin thing about those players listed ? How often does a senior bowl propel a player to upper rounds because of his play? scouts already know these kids over the few years in college. A marginal player may boost his stock. But I don't consider that overall relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 The combine seems to help some players to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Coaches from other teams usually know their business and are not in the business of "Hyping" players. Two years in a row 11 coaches in the Big Ten voted this guy as the Big Ten's best defensive player. That alone says so much. The people who's job it is to teach football has said two years in a row that this guy is the best at that trade. Saying what his future will be is anyone's guess and can be dabated until he goes out proves someone right or wrong. But to say that it just hype that has got him all these awards and generally known as one of the top, if not the top MLB in the game is ridiculous. I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system. I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will. I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special. Dead on. You will see here that most who bash Laryngitis also just happen to be Buckeye haters, with the exception of Solon who is whatever he is. Before the draft we should make a list of those who are so confident Laryngitis will bust and those who think he will make a damn good NFL backer or maybe better. We will only need about half a season to get a decent gauge on him unless he's backing up a Hall of Famer his rookie year. Wilhelm got stuck behind Donnie Edwards for a few years, but although he is a decent backer, he is not in Laryngitis' class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Lauranitis will be a solid NFL LB. You can get Patrick Willis or D. Jackson production out of him. He isn't gonna be a thumper or make a lot of plays in the backfield. But he'll make the tackles near or around the LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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