Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 On the Mark: Give Ray Lewis his due by Mark Kriegel Mark Kriegel is the national columnist for FOXSports.com. He is the author of two New York Times best sellers, Namath: A Biography and Pistol: The Life of Pete Maravich, which Sports Illustrated called "the best sports biography of the year." It's a difficult, if not impossible proposition, comparing defensive players. Reliable statistics for tackles didn't exist before 1994, according to STATS INC. And what of the tackles a player didn't make because offenses ran or threw the other way? How to measure that? In Lewis' case, a qualitative standard is in order. His supporting cast may change. Ed Reed and Terrell Suggs were still in college when Lewis earned MVP honors in Super Bowl XXXV. This year's team features rookies at head coach and quarterback. Still, now as ever, the Ravens get by with just enough offense. Ray Lewis makes that possible. For more than a decade, he has been at the very center — literally, metaphorically, emotionally — of a great defense. I'm not telling you to like the guy. For many, the perception of Ray Lewis was indelibly framed early in 2001, when he was indicted for the stabbing death of two men following a Super Bowl party in Atlanta. Lewis pleaded guilty to misdemeanor obstruction charges, and testified against his former friends, both of whom were acquitted. In short order, Lewis was comparing himself to another unjustly persecuted man, Jesus Christ. In the years since, Lewis has tried to refurbish his image through charitable works. Does that make him an undercover thug or a man of God? I don't know. I'm not telling you not to hate him, either. Just understand that his teammates love him. Always have. You've never heard a guy who played with Ray Lewis come back to knock him. He has a quality most often attributed to great point guard and quarterbacks, an ability to raise the game of those around him. As it pertains to both defense and leadership, he sets the standard. There are others who warrant mention in this 'best-ever' debate. But hitters tend to fade fast. Jack Lambert played his last full season at 31. Dick Butkus, long considered the standard for middle linebackers, was finished by 31 as well. Butkus never even made the playoffs. What's more, as Sean Lahman points out in The Pro Football Historical Abstract, the Butkus Bears "finished in the bottom half of the NFL's defenses five out of nine seasons." Junior Seau, who came up in 1990, has more tackles than Lewis. But he never won a Super Bowl, much less the game's coveted MVP award. Mike Singletary is an interesting choice, but the success of his teams had as much to do with Walter Payton as anyone. Lawrence Taylor, of course, forever changed the game, making outside linebacker a glamour position. But for all of Taylor's dramatic talent, he was also a scab and a coke-head, not exactly what one looks for in a teammate. As Lewis goes, so go the Ravens. According to STATS INC., in '96, when he was drafted, Baltimore was ranked 30th, dead last, in yards allowed. By '99, they were second. The intervening years — except for 2002, when an injured shoulder limited Lewis to only five games — have seen the Ravens finish no worse than sixth. Despite a rookie coach and a rookie quarterback, this was in many ways a typical year for Baltimore. Lewis is in his 13th season, his tenth as a Pro Bowler, his sixth as a first-team All-Pro. The Ravens, second in yards allowed, have another chance at the Super Bowl. At 33, Lewis is also tied for the lead in tackles in these playoffs. But again, I'm trying to measure what can't be quantified. You can't figure Ray Lewis by the numbers. You can only acknowledge that which he instills in friend and foe, a legacy of equal parts, fear and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm over that "what could have been" mentality and have moved on to despising the fcuking bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm over that "what could have been" mentality and have moved on to despising the fcuking bastards. Sour grapes, my friend? I just love the way he plays. There is really no valid reason to not love him as a football player. PS Let's not get into the game of counting felons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sour grapes, my friend? I just love the way he plays. There is really no valid reason to not love him as a football player. PS Let's not get into the game of counting felons. he's a killer player uh huh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 "Sour grapes?" What are you, a Ravens fan? I like Ray Lewis a lot, I'm just saying over the whole "that was my Super Bowl!" thing your thread title implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sour grapes, my friend? I just love the way he plays. There is really no valid reason to not love him as a football player. PS Let's not get into the game of counting felons. As a football player the man is absolutely awesome a real motivator ..technically speaking all the ravens should be browns..or perhaps the ravens shoulda been "the baltimore browns" lololol If we had lost the rights to the name/history al would have named the expansion "the Cleveland Clowns" with bright purple uniforms and pretty pinkish helms it would fit our owners for the past ten years football ownership capability to a tee...hehehe This weeks game the baltimore browns face off against the cleveland clowns...has a certain ring to it..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATENEARS Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Great intense player. As the article says, he makes those around him better. He is the Baltimore Ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 "Sour grapes?" What are you, a Ravens fan? I like Ray Lewis a lot, I'm just saying over the whole "that was my Super Bowl!" thing your thread title implies. There is no 'my' or 'me' in any of this, Mike. I watch. They play. Any way, you know the genesis of the Ravens. And we ain't talking acient history. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder if he was an 'Orange'............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Great intense player. As the article says, he makes those around him better. He is the Baltimore Ravens He would have made a great 'Bad Boy' back in the 1980's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Any way, you know the genesis of the Ravens. And we ain't talking acient history. So what was the rationale behind the thread title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 So what was the rationale behind the thread title? Does there need to be? I guess - and I do think in a mis-wired and mis-managed way - if he played in Orange and Brown, the fans would love him. Just a point. I'll stop now, before this gets worse................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 if he played in Orange and Brown, the fans would love him. "The" fans, or "Browns Fans?" You're losing me here, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ghoolie Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sour grapes, my friend? I just love the way he plays. There is really no valid reason to not love him as a football player. PS Let's not get into the game of counting felons. Johnny boy, it's lost on these dolts. It doesn't matter how great a player is, if he is successful and not a Brown, according to these jackoffs, "he sucks". Did you see how shitty Ben played last week? Wow, aren't you glad we don't have him? He missed a half because of a concussion and he got called a pussy. Meanwhile our homosexual QB missed 1/2 the season with a pinky dink. Here in the South people think the Browns are a laughing stock and a free win. Talking of our "8 trophy's in a case" illustrates just how bad things have become. We are in agreement that the problem with the Borwns IS Lerner ownership. He will never have a winning franchise. You know and I know it, and deep down these dumbasses know it. He decides whot o draft, who to play and God only knows what else. The guy knows shit about football yet he goes and unilaterally hires a head coach. Insiders told Tom Coughlin not to interview for the Browns job back in 1999. How pathetic is it that nobody here is bothered by the fact that top FA, coaches and execs never express interest in working in Cleveland. Cowher? Shannahan? Parcells? Nahhhh, we get Mangini and Mangini decides to keep Crennel. But these idiots don't care. They think Crennel can be a good addition. Anyone else would have run him out of town, but the Browns are gonna keep him? Sentimentally, the Browns will always be my team. This hosre shit team we has to go. Fans can't influience an owner? Sure they can. Cleveland fans influenced Modell to where he was uncomfortable in public. Lerner needs to be uncomfortable in Cleveland. He needs to be bood, ridiculed and hated. I hate him. Without the addition of some real star FA's, nobody is going to watch the Browns play in 2009. I can tell you, attendance will be at an all time low for CBS. I would like to see Lerner move his team to LA. If not, then at least sell it. The Browns will struggle to win 4 games in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 "The" fans, or "Browns Fans?" You're losing me here, John. I will type slow so people from SU can understand. Browns fans, of course. Look up 'context' in Google. And you went to a Journalism and Communications school?????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm over that "what could have been" mentality and have moved on to despising the fcuking bastards. I'm with you on this.....He could have been a Brown. So what? Who cares? Norm Cash should've been an Indian. Paul Warfield should have always remained a Brown, Craig Nettles should have remained an Indian. Paul Brown should have remained here and retired here. There are numerous players that the Cleveland organizations didn't draft and could have. So what? It didn't happen. Lewis is just another player in a long line of athletes that could have or should have been here. Shall we start threads about all of them as well? What I enjoyed is that when you brought this to light John asked you about possible sour grapes, but in actuality it seemed as though his thread contained the actual sour grapes over Lewis not being a Brown. You were the one saying "So what?" I'll give Lewis his due as a player....Again, so what? What does that have to do with the possiblity that he could have been a Brown? As a person I think he's a thug. His hands are dirty and he got to walk away from something that a lot of people think he was very involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 The Browns will struggle to win 4 games in 2009. I agree with a lot of your statements. lerner is a joke. Mangini is a joke. But I'd love to place a bet on that 4 win prediction of yours. With the NFL scheduling formula this team is an easy 8-8 or 9-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ghoolie Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I agree with a lot of your statements. lerner is a joke. Mangini is a joke. But I'd love to place a bet on that 4 win prediction of yours. With the NFL scheduling formula this team is an easy 8-8 or 9-7. 8? No, 9? Don't be ridiculous. An EASY 8 wins, for a team that couldn't beat the Bengals and finished second? The Browns are GUARANTEED 5 losses within the AFC NORTH. 2 losses to Pittsburgh 2 losses to the ravens 1 Loss to Cinci Right out of the gun, the best they can do is 11 - 5. Now, every year I get into this pre season shit with fans telling me, " OH NO WAY WE DROP 2 TO PITT AND BALT............ YES............... WAY The browns are not going to overtake these two teams and we won't sweep ANYONE. What is left is winning 7 out of the remaining 11, or going 7 -4 in those games. Also, the scheduling is a fools trap. How many people counted on a guaranteed win against Arizona last year? BIG difference in 2008, eh? Strength of schedule means nothing because like the publication for suckers wall Street Journal, the strength stats of LAST YEARS schedule mean nothing. The Browns actual schedule might be a bitch. YOu won't know until they play it. HOWEVER........... the browns are really weak on talent, they have no continuity, no discipline, no QB and no direction. The team is not capable of winning 8 or nine games in 2009. Can they win 6? No, they cant. 5? Its a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I will type slow so people from SU can understand. Syracuse ranked 53rd in US News and World Report's Top Universities, Connecticut ranked 66th. My undergrad institution was ranked much, much higher than either. But I digress. Browns fans, of course. Look up 'context' in Google. And you went to a Journalism and Communications school?????????????? I, and all Browns Fans, would of course love the guy if here were on my/our team. I dig the guy and he's a fcuking Raven, so yeah. Why is this even up for debate or discussion???????? I reckon I never understood your intentions because the answer was just so darn obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcrow1945 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 8? No, 9? Don't be ridiculous. An EASY 8 wins, for a team that couldn't beat the Bengals and finished second? The Browns are GUARANTEED 5 losses within the AFC NORTH. 2 losses to Pittsburgh 2 losses to the ravens 1 Loss to Cinci Right out of the gun, the best they can do is 11 - 5. Now, every year I get into this pre season shit with fans telling me, " OH NO WAY WE DROP 2 TO PITT AND BALT............ YES............... WAY The browns are not going to overtake these two teams and we won't sweep ANYONE. What is left is winning 7 out of the remaining 11, or going 7 -4 in those games. Also, the scheduling is a fools trap. How many people counted on a guaranteed win against Arizona last year? BIG difference in 2008, eh? Strength of schedule means nothing because like the publication for suckers wall Street Journal, the strength stats of LAST YEARS schedule mean nothing. The Browns actual schedule might be a bitch. YOu won't know until they play it. HOWEVER........... the browns are really weak on talent, they have no continuity, no discipline, no QB and no direction. The team is not capable of winning 8 or nine games in 2009. Can they win 6? No, they cant. 5? Its a stretch. As far as using Arizona as an example it shows how little you know or how little you follow the game. In 2007 the Arizona Cardinals were 8-8, finished in 2nd place and were an up and coming franchise in everybody's book. But you obviously thought the Cardinals weren't going to be much. Why? I know why. because you don' follow the game close enough and you go by their history. Not what is happening now. I promise you that there were very few teams looking at the Cardinals this year and counting them as an easy win. Before you use your keyboard I suggest you try and find out some facts first. No last place team is going to make a dramatic improvement unless it's due to an easy schedule. It's a simple fact. Teams are not going to magically get better. We saw in with the '07 Browns that went 10-6 due to a weak schedule. We saw it with the Jets in '06 when they went 10-6 following a 4-12 season. This years version is the Miami Dolphins and the Atlanta Falcons. How do you think a Miami team goes from being 1-15 in '07 and then goes 11-5 in '08? I grant there are many factors...But the main one is that they played a horrible schedule. Seahawks, Rams, Raiders, Niners, Chiefs, Bills twice, Jets. That's 8 of their 11 wins right there! You honestly are going to try and tell people that the five last place teams the Browns will be playing next year are going to be good football teams just because six months have passed and they drafted a couple players and maybe a FA or two? While the Browns are not very good, they are better than their 4-12 record this year. C'mon, anyone with any common sense can see and will admit that the season fell apart and players quit playing after it became obvious their HC was a lame duck and they weren't making the playoffs. Adding also to this was injuries. You mention this horrible team losing all these game within the division simply because you see the Steelers in the AFC championship game. Not because you are intelligent to what has happened in games. This horrible Browns team lost early on to the powerful Steelers by a whopping 4 points....A real 10-6 blowout! To say as you do that they will be an automatic 1-5 in the divison is just further evidence that you don't have a clue. Guys like you do not do their homework and simply react and in this case, type, without really understanding. My feeling about the Browns 8-8 or 9-7 finish isn't pie in the sky crap. It's simple history, scheduling, understanding the game and common sense. Not the emotion that is so evident in your post. After the 2009 season, when the Browns end somewhere between 8-8 and 9-7 I'll be sure that you Ghoolie,are the first one I mention....It'll be fun exposing guys like you that really know very little and understand even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 ns actual schedule might be a bitch. YOu won't know until they play it. HOWEVER........... the browns are really weak on talent, they have no continuity, no discipline, no QB and no direction. The team is not capable of winning 8 or nine games in 2009. Can they win 6? No, they cant. 5? Its a stretch. The Browns won 10 games in 2007 with weaker "talent" than they had this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Tommy Boy, you know that I'm a Browns fan - I have the coat to prove it. You also know that I wish the Browns never moved to Baltimore. I FINALLY get excited about the new Browns - must have been a weak moment - and they shit the bed with an inept owner and a red-headed GM who didn't want to do anything but scout college players and type expletives to FANS. I would 'kill' to have either the Steelers' roster or the Ravens' roster playing in Cleveland right now. What idiot could hope for something else? Remember that I was the first one to use the 'coffee fetcher' term when Policy was named President of the Browns. And Bill Walsh liked a lot of coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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