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Holmgren: Browns Made "every Bit The Offer" But "had No Chance"

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Mike Holmgren says Browns offered "every bit" as Redskins to move up for Robert Griffin III

Mar 15, 2012 -- 3:13pm

By Tony Grossi

 

Browns President Mike Holmgren said he made “every bit the offer” as the Washington Redskins to move up to No. 2 in the draft to take Robert Griffin III, but believes the Browns had no chance to trade with the St. Louis Rams.

 

“Honestly, when it didn’t happen I think there are reasons that I can’t go into right now, but there is a very close relationship between the people getting the deal done and the people who offered. And I’m not sure anything we offered would have been good enough. We were very, very aggressive and it didn’t work,” Holmgren said.

 

Holmgren made those comments on a conference call with Browns season-ticket holders. The question about the Browns’ seriousness about the trade talks did not come up until the 54th minute of a 60-minute question and answer session.

 

“Most of the stories that I have seen – all of them I’ve seen – were incorrect in what our offer was, when we entered the process and in how we went about it,” Holmgren said.

 

The relationship to which Holmgren referred was the friendship between Rams coach Jeff Fisher and Redskins coach Mike Shanahan.

 

The Redskins moved into the No. 2 spot by shipping the Rams their first-round position at No. 6, their second-round pick this year, and first-round picks in 2013 and 2014.

 

Since the Browns own the No. 4 position in this year’s draft, an identical offer from the Browns should have trumped Washington’s offer. Holmgren’s comment about “a very close relationship” is the first explanation why the Rams seemingly left improved draft position on the table.

 

Holmgren indicated more than once on the conference call that the team’s Plan B at quarterback is to re-commit to Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace and surround them with better offensive players.

 

“The draft picks we were going to use to move up there, now we have again,” he said. “So the other plan we talked about was to use those draft picks to get starters for this year and to help our quarterbacks on our team better.

 

“So that’s what we’re doing. Time will only tell. You don’t know what kind of draft you have for 3-4 years. Rest assured we aggressively were involved in that. It didn’t happen. We didn’t pull up our tent. Now we’re doing what we have to do in that we didn’t get that done.”

 

Holmgren and GM Tom Heckert both indicated the Browns, at this stage of the process, intend to use their first-round picks at No. 4 and No. 22. But Holmgren would not discount the possibility of trading down, up, or anthing else.

 

 

 

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=694

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Mike Holmgren says Browns offered "every bit" as Redskins to move up for Robert Griffin III

Mar 15, 2012 -- 3:13pm

By Tony Grossi

 

Browns President Mike Holmgren said he made “every bit the offer” as the Washington Redskins to move up to No. 2 in the draft to take Robert Griffin III, but believes the Browns had no chance to trade with the St. Louis Rams.

 

“Honestly, when it didn’t happen I think there are reasons that I can’t go into right now, but there is a very close relationship between the people getting the deal done and the people who offered. And I’m not sure anything we offered would have been good enough. We were very, very aggressive and it didn’t work,” Holmgren said.

 

Holmgren made those comments on a conference call with Browns season-ticket holders. The question about the Browns’ seriousness about the trade talks did not come up until the 54th minute of a 60-minute question and answer session.

 

“Most of the stories that I have seen – all of them I’ve seen – were incorrect in what our offer was, when we entered the process and in how we went about it,” Holmgren said.

 

The relationship to which Holmgren referred was the friendship between Rams coach Jeff Fisher and Redskins coach Mike Shanahan.

 

The Redskins moved into the No. 2 spot by shipping the Rams their first-round position at No. 6, their second-round pick this year, and first-round picks in 2013 and 2014.

 

Since the Browns own the No. 4 position in this year’s draft, an identical offer from the Browns should have trumped Washington’s offer. Holmgren’s comment about “a very close relationship” is the first explanation why the Rams seemingly left improved draft position on the table.

 

Holmgren indicated more than once on the conference call that the team’s Plan B at quarterback is to re-commit to Colt McCoy and Seneca Wallace and surround them with better offensive players.

 

“The draft picks we were going to use to move up there, now we have again,” he said. “So the other plan we talked about was to use those draft picks to get starters for this year and to help our quarterbacks on our team better.

 

“So that’s what we’re doing. Time will only tell. You don’t know what kind of draft you have for 3-4 years. Rest assured we aggressively were involved in that. It didn’t happen. We didn’t pull up our tent. Now we’re doing what we have to do in that we didn’t get that done.”

 

Holmgren and GM Tom Heckert both indicated the Browns, at this stage of the process, intend to use their first-round picks at No. 4 and No. 22. But Holmgren would not discount the possibility of trading down, up, or anthing else.

 

 

 

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=694

 

 

 

Sour grapes another two years.

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I hope this is true.

 

There are three QBs worth a substantial investment this season...Luck, RG and Manning. Next season probably three more- fill out the roster and give Colt (a decent QB) a chance or at least give the next guy a foundation to work with.

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Cool, looking forward to yet another season of walking the 4-12 / 6-10 tightrope. Other fans are hoping and dreaming of the Superbowl, and all that we can do, is hope for a day sometime soon, that we can at least be 8-8.

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Well hopefuly the Rams flop with all those Redskin picks they got. I understand working deals with your friends but your employer should really come first, in this case the Rams. So if we had the same offer on the table, it was better than what the Skins had because of our draft position. Not to mention we play in a different conference and would only play the Rams once every 4 yrs and not affect playoff seeding in the NFC. It is what it is, lets get the best possible players we can in April and hope they work out!

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Or maybe Holmgren is just full of shit.

 

Well thats possible but the St Louis Dispatch reported we offered the same thing the day of the trade so probably not.

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This makes me so sick it's ridiculous. He's admitting that he wanted RGIII and "plan b" was to stick with the guy he clearly didn't want as QB and hope to God people make him look better. Does this even sound like a good call? The guy above said it perfectly, this is like striking out with the hot chick at the bar, getting drunk and taking the fatty home. It doesn't matter if the chick has on nice makeup and fashionable clothes (bringing in more talent), at the end of the day she's still a porker. Man oh man. I guess there always has to be that guy, and the browns are it.

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This makes me so sick it's ridiculous. He's admitting that he wanted RGIII and "plan b" was to stick with the guy he clearly didn't want as QB and hope to God people make him look better. Does this even sound like a good call? The guy above said it perfectly, this is like striking out with the hot chick at the bar, getting drunk and taking the fatty home. It doesn't matter if the chick has on nice makeup and fashionable clothes (bringing in more talent), at the end of the day she's still a porker. Man oh man. I guess there always has to be that guy, and the browns are it.

 

What else are they supposed to do at this point?? Its not like they have tons of better options.

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This makes me so sick it's ridiculous. He's admitting that he wanted RGIII and "plan b" was to stick with the guy he clearly didn't want as QB and hope to God people make him look better. Does this even sound like a good call? The guy above said it perfectly, this is like striking out with the hot chick at the bar, getting drunk and taking the fatty home. It doesn't matter if the chick has on nice makeup and fashionable clothes (bringing in more talent), at the end of the day she's still a porker. Man oh man. I guess there always has to be that guy, and the browns are it.

It doesn't matter what he said, the fat chick knows she is fat and Colt knows he isn't starter material.

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Same people would be bitching if Holmgren never let on to what the Browns were doing and ended up denying ever trying to trade with the Rams. People bitch about people they don't like, period.

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he (the FO) might still go after a QB in the draft. hopefully they trade down to get some LB's or take claiborne at 4.

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None of you fucking blowhard pussies are ever happy.

 

You're pissed when it looks like we made no effort to get RG3, then you're pissed when it turns out we did make an effort. Can it, stop crying and grow a set of balls.

 

You are never going to run the team, for good reasons. Swallow that and stop bitching.

 

This place isn't even worth coming to anymore.

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None of you fucking blowhard pussies are ever happy.

 

You're pissed when it looks like we made no effort to get RG3, then you're pissed when it turns out we did make an effort. Can it, stop crying and grow a set of balls.

 

You are never going to run the team, for good reasons. Swallow that and stop bitching.

 

This place isn't even worth coming to anymore.

 

Zing

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I like that he was honest with their efforts. I like being informed. I don't mind that he hung Colt out to dry, can't hurt, could be a motivator. Curious as to why Tim Couch is so mad. Too bad that he is pulling out.

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None of you fucking blowhard pussies are ever happy.

 

You're pissed when it looks like we made no effort to get RG3, then you're pissed when it turns out we did make an effort. Can it, stop crying and grow a set of balls.

 

You are never going to run the team, for good reasons. Swallow that and stop bitching.

 

This place isn't even worth coming to anymore.

 

I respect your opinion here Tim so what do you think we should do overall? I can't believe you feel Colt is the starter. I'm not sure if this comment was geared towards what I was saying, but overall my point here is that it's obvious that Holmgren knows Colt isn't good enough to be a starter. You don't make a similar offer of three first round picks to a QB if you think the guy you have is good. I like McCoy, and I would love more than anything in world to sit here 6 months from now and admit I was absolutely wrong and see the browns winning football games. But frankly, that's just not going to happen IMO with him under center no matter who we draft. I see Colt as no more than Frye, Anderson, Quinn and the like. guys who had some skills to succeed as back-ups but not good enough to be franchise guys.

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I honestly knew we we're going to get RG3. But I'm in the minority that thinks Colt at least deserves a shot with decent players around him. With that being said I still would have taken RG3 in a heartbeat if we had to trade up, but will content with Colt. But wishing we go with Blackmon at 4. It has to be an offensive weapon, and he is the only one worth 4th. Richardson is someone I still have doubts about, especially at 4. Watching the Championship against LSU his backup played better for most of the game. Rich seemed to only run for about 1-2 yards every carry until the end of the game. So in reality that is what we will see every week until our line steps up. Tanahill (sp?) would be awful at 4th and I really don't even think he's worth the 22.

 

I think most Browns fans will forgive H&H if we can pick up Blackmon & Richardson. Is it possible? probably not. But right now that's the best scenario we can have. Worst? would be trading down again to stock pile even more picks for future drafts. I'm tired of that! we're impatient in Cleveland and need to win NOW!

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I honestly knew we we're going to get RG3. But I'm in the minority that thinks Colt at least deserves a shot with decent players around him. With that being said I still would have taken RG3 in a heartbeat if we had to trade up, but will content with Colt. But wishing we go with Blackmon at 4. It has to be an offensive weapon, and he is the only one worth 4th. Richardson is someone I still have doubts about, especially at 4. Watching the Championship against LSU his backup played better for most of the game. Rich seemed to only run for about 1-2 yards every carry until the end of the game. So in reality that is what we will see every week until our line steps up. Tanahill (sp?) would be awful at 4th and I really don't even think he's worth the 22.

 

I think most Browns fans will forgive H&H if we can pick up Blackmon & Richardson. Is it possible? probably not. But right now that's the best scenario we can have. Worst? would be trading down again to stock pile even more picks for future drafts. I'm tired of that! we're impatient in Cleveland and need to win NOW!

 

Know what Roo? If this is the truth- and I think Holmgren is a straight shooter- if the Rams want to trade back up and get Blackmon- I give 'em the finger, and say we're taking Blackmon.

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Know what Roo? If this is the truth- and I think Holmgren is a straight shooter- if the Rams want to trade back up and get Blackmon- I give 'em the finger, and say we're taking Blackmon.

Hell yeah. I'll take Blackmon! Its looking like we'll be targeting offense in the draft with the current state of our defensive FA moves.

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I respect your opinion here Tim so what do you think we should do overall? I can't believe you feel Colt is the starter. I'm not sure if this comment was geared towards what I was saying, but overall my point here is that it's obvious that Holmgren knows Colt isn't good enough to be a starter. You don't make a similar offer of three first round picks to a QB if you think the guy you have is good. I like McCoy, and I would love more than anything in world to sit here 6 months from now and admit I was absolutely wrong and see the browns winning football games. But frankly, that's just not going to happen IMO with him under center no matter who we draft. I see Colt as no more than Frye, Anderson, Quinn and the like. guys who had some skills to succeed as back-ups but not good enough to be franchise guys.

 

 

It wasn't geared toward anyone in particular, I'm just getting fed up with every thread being full of "fuck us were never going to get better nobody knows how to run this team blah blah".

 

I don't believe Colt is a franchise QB, but I never expected him to be. I've been saying for the last two years that Colt was meant to be the guy before the guy. He's a placeholder, someone that won't wow us, but won't singlehandedly lose games himself either.

 

While we implement the new offense and acclimate the coaches and build the team, Colt will be the same Colt he is every week. And then, when he's surrounded by talent, they'll unceremoniously pull the rug out from under him and draft our franchise guy.

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Know what Roo? If this is the truth- and I think Holmgren is a straight shooter- if the Rams want to trade back up and get Blackmon- I give 'em the finger, and say we're taking Blackmon.

 

 

 

I don't think the Rams want Blackmon. My thinking is they want Richardson. Fisher is a run first guy and the team has a great back in Steven Jackson but he is getting a bit old so getting a top back to split time with Jackson makes some sense.

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^certainly not enough to warrant holding our pick for ransom. they'll juest pick who we dont.

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It will be interesting for me to read through the comments about this article.

 

From my perspective, this is a matter of "who you going to believe"?

 

I know one thing, RG3 might have been just the guy to get my blood flowing again.

 

One question though, are Fisher and Shannahan GMs and coaches? GMs usually make these decisions and, well, business is business.

 

Sorry if I appear just a bit skeptical with Holmgren's comments.

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Always a great idea to let your starter know you have 0 confidence in him

I'm sure he'll play a lot better looking over his shoulder every second of every game.

WSS

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yeah, cause coddling colt and treating him like a child is surely a better way to get him to play.

 

shanny has the title of VP of operations i believe, so supposedly he makes personnel decisions. not sure about fisher, but he held alot of power in tennessee.

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I prefer to light a fire under Colt's ass. Last year he went in with hand hold and told he was going to be the guy. Know he sees the team trying to go after RGIII and say they don't know if it will be him of Wallace. Goofy faced bastard better get his shit together.

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Peter King addressed Holmgren telling season ticket holders that the Browns offer was as good or better than the Redskins offer.

 

...begin

 

The other day, Browns president Mike Holmgren inferred strongly to his season ticket holders in a conference call that he felt the trade St. Louis made with Washington was influenced by the relationship between the two coaches involved -- good friend Mike Shanahan of the Redskins and Jeff Fisher of the Rams. What Holmgren said: "What we had offered for the pick was every bit the offer that was chosen. There are reasons I can't go into right now why it didn't happen, but there's a very close relationship between the people that were involved in getting the deal done, and the people eventually got it done. I'm not sure if any offer we made at the end of the day was going to be quite good enough."

 

But according to Rams GM Les Snead, that's not the whole story. He confirmed to me Sunday what I'd heard the night the trade broke. Snead said he told all teams interested on March 8 that he was going to have the trade done by the end of that day, and he was going to ask each team to give its best offer for the trade. At that point, he said, after listening to all the proposals, he was going to take the best offer -- unless the offer was not anywhere near what the Rams wanted for the pick.

 

Those were the rules, Snead said Sunday, that he made clear to each team. Snead asked for everyone's best offer in individual phone calls. It's unclear what Cleveland's offer was, but Washington offered three first-round picks and one second-round pick. That offer, Snead said, was better than Cleveland's offer. So he told Washington officials that they'd won the bidding and told the Browns they'd lost. At that point, Snead said, Cleveland tried to make another offer, and Snead said the window was closed; the Rams were taking Washington's offer.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/19/signings/1.html

 

 

 

Many of you have wondered why Snead did it that way. Wouldn't St. Louis have gotten a better return if it had let two or more teams play off against one another? Possibly. But I can see a scenario that would net a smaller haul. Suppose Cleveland and Washington go back and forth, back and forth. Cleveland, which had been been playing poker and saying it would never give a third first-round pick, finally relents and says, "That's it. We're not adding one ounce of value to the three ones we've offered. That's it.'' Washington hears that and says, "OK, we'll give you three ones and a fifth-round pick.'' Cleveland says fine, the pick's yours.

 

My point is simple: The Redskins knew the rules of the game -- that they'd have to blow St. Louis out of the water with one of the best trade offers in NFL history. They did. No team had ever bid three first-round picks for a draft choice before, and Washington threw in a second-rounder as well.

 

Looks like Snead got max value for the pick. And had he gone back on his word to take the best offer from each team by telling the Redskins he was re-opening the game, both teams would know they could never trust Snead in a trade again, and that reputation would spread.

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Peter King addressed Holmgren telling season ticket holders that the Browns offer was as good or better than the Redskins offer.

 

...begin

 

The other day, Browns president Mike Holmgren inferred strongly to his season ticket holders in a conference call that he felt the trade St. Louis made with Washington was influenced by the relationship between the two coaches involved -- good friend Mike Shanahan of the Redskins and Jeff Fisher of the Rams. What Holmgren said: "What we had offered for the pick was every bit the offer that was chosen. There are reasons I can't go into right now why it didn't happen, but there's a very close relationship between the people that were involved in getting the deal done, and the people eventually got it done. I'm not sure if any offer we made at the end of the day was going to be quite good enough."

 

But according to Rams GM Les Snead, that's not the whole story. He confirmed to me Sunday what I'd heard the night the trade broke. Snead said he told all teams interested on March 8 that he was going to have the trade done by the end of that day, and he was going to ask each team to give its best offer for the trade. At that point, he said, after listening to all the proposals, he was going to take the best offer -- unless the offer was not anywhere near what the Rams wanted for the pick.

 

Those were the rules, Snead said Sunday, that he made clear to each team. Snead asked for everyone's best offer in individual phone calls. It's unclear what Cleveland's offer was, but Washington offered three first-round picks and one second-round pick. That offer, Snead said, was better than Cleveland's offer. So he told Washington officials that they'd won the bidding and told the Browns they'd lost. At that point, Snead said, Cleveland tried to make another offer, and Snead said the window was closed; the Rams were taking Washington's offer.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/19/signings/1.html

 

 

 

Many of you have wondered why Snead did it that way. Wouldn't St. Louis have gotten a better return if it had let two or more teams play off against one another? Possibly. But I can see a scenario that would net a smaller haul. Suppose Cleveland and Washington go back and forth, back and forth. Cleveland, which had been been playing poker and saying it would never give a third first-round pick, finally relents and says, "That's it. We're not adding one ounce of value to the three ones we've offered. That's it.'' Washington hears that and says, "OK, we'll give you three ones and a fifth-round pick.'' Cleveland says fine, the pick's yours.

 

My point is simple: The Redskins knew the rules of the game -- that they'd have to blow St. Louis out of the water with one of the best trade offers in NFL history. They did. No team had ever bid three first-round picks for a draft choice before, and Washington threw in a second-rounder as well.

 

Looks like Snead got max value for the pick. And had he gone back on his word to take the best offer from each team by telling the Redskins he was re-opening the game, both teams would know they could never trust Snead in a trade again, and that reputation would spread.

 

That is really interesting and believable.. Peter King's articles are always insightful. Im happy we didnt give up that much for any one guy. I wish Holmgren didnt come out and say what he did, but you know what? If he didnt, everyone on these boards would be screaming that we werent trying to get better!! Just a bad situation for our FO and I wish us fans could have a little more patience and trust. Lets build this team right which is not with quick easy fixes...

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