Guest ATENEARS Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I lived in Detroit during the Belichick era and I liked the way he was building the team big and tough up the middle. It's those who lived in Cleveland and drank all the negative kool-aid the media was spilling who didn't like him. The media had their doughnut break room at the Berea complex taken away from them and had to face only Belichick to get news and he wasn't exactly forthcoming ... so they turned on him and started questioning everything. I cheered the departure of the goofy Kosar ... I had no problem with that other than we didn't have anyone healthy on staff to take the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 If we hire Mangini as a HC instead of Pioli as a GM...... We're gunna suck for 4 more years. Lerner: one week ago you made the right decisions in firing savage and crennel, but now you worry me with mangini talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YtownBrownsBacker Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 If we hire Mangini as a HC instead of Pioli as a GM...... We're gunna suck for 4 more years. Lerner: one week ago you made the right decisions in firing savage and crennel, but now you worry me with mangini talks. Not that I'm convinced that Mangini is our answer, but tell me how many games Pioli will win us. Do you really think a GM means more to a team then a HC? Obviously Savage did. Belichick doesn't, he makes the decisions and Pioli watches the money and works with the scouts. Then there is the speculation that Pioli is just playing us. That comes from both Boston and Cleveland insiders. He threw Ferentz up so he could stonewall the process. So, how has Lerner F**ked up yet. He is interviewing people. He had to interview some candidates before Sunday because their teams are in the playoffs. What's wrong with that? He talked to Cowher and Shanahan, maybe Parcells next. He had to waite until Atlanta lost this week to talk to McKay. He hasn't named Mangini coach. The media might have though, but I think he is giving Pioli till Monday to shit or get off the pot. Talk is talk, but you could do a hell of a lot worse then Mangini. Would you rather he be interviewing college coaches or some broken down retreads from years gone by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Not that I'm convinced that Mangini is our answer, but tell me how many games Pioli will win us. Do you really think a GM means more to a team then a HC? Obviously Savage did. Belichick doesn't, he makes the decisions and Pioli watches the money and works with the scouts. Then there is the speculation that Pioli is just playing us. That comes from both Boston and Cleveland insiders. He threw Ferentz up so he could stonewall the process. So, how has Lerner F**ked up yet. He is interviewing people. He had to interview some candidates before Sunday because their teams are in the playoffs. What's wrong with that? He talked to Cowher and Shanahan, maybe Parcells next. He had to waite until Atlanta lost this week to talk to McKay. He hasn't named Mangini coach. The media might have though, but I think he is giving Pioli till Monday to shit or get off the pot. Talk is talk, but you could do a hell of a lot worse then Mangini. Would you rather he be interviewing college coaches or some broken down retreads from years gone by. Yeah but if Pioli is hired, he picks who the coach is. The coach is the one who wins games. The GM just makes all the player decisions, bringing them in through free agency or the draft. Mangini already failed in NY so why would we pick him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Yeah but if Pioli is hired, he picks who the coach is. The coach is the one who wins games. The GM just makes all the player decisions, bringing them in through free agency or the draft. Mangini already failed in NY so why would we pick him up? 23-25 in 3 years, with 1 playoff appearance is hardly failure in the NFL at HC. It's about the same as BB did in his first job in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm just saying, I dont see us doing anything special with Mangini. Maybe one or two playoff appearances, but we need a team to look foward to in cleveland. The cavs cant be the only answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I am not advocating Mangini. But I certainly don't get the hard knocks on him. Reality is, there are no sure things, no matter who CLE hires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I am not advocating Mangini. But I certainly don't get the hard knocks on him. Reality is, there are no sure things, no matter who CLE hires. True. I just want the right solution this time, no more experimenting, no more hiring boneheads like savage, i want the browns to be taken serious in the league.... maybe eventually be in the same sentence with the Patriots, Colts, and Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 True. I just want the right solution this time, no more experimenting, no more hiring boneheads like savage, i want the browns to be taken serious in the league.... maybe eventually be in the same sentence with the Patriots, Colts, and Giants. Don't we all. On the plus side, Mangini really wouldn't be experimenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Don't we all. On the plus side, Mangini really wouldn't be experimenting. I meant not experimenting with with college coaches or anyone who hasn't coached before. We've been down that road before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I meant not experimenting with with college coaches or anyone who hasn't coached before. We've been down that road before I followed you. That was my point on Mangini. He has experience at HC and isn't coming from college. One thing for sure, no college coaches. They don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KardiacKid26 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Lol sorry. I just have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I mean Lerner obviously is doing the best he can, I just hope he makes the RIGHT decision this time around and get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Looks like there's a good chance the Brown fans here are going to get their wish and get Mangini, and his hand picked GM candidate. http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/04/...#comment-180951 I won't bother arguing any football points as before since its clear no one wants to address any of it - though I will reiterate that Mangini had considerable input into how the Jets spent $140 million in offseason cash - which resulted in an 8-8 season under his management. (Yes, believe it or not Patriots fans are actually quite knowledgable about the goings on of a division rival) Sure, the Kool-Aid says blame Tannenbaum rather than your potential head coach (and defacto GM, since he's the one Lerner seems to be abdicating that choice to) but I can't help but notice that the Jets owner fired Mangini, not Tannenbaum. But in general I hope everything works out for you guys potentially bringing in a former Patriot defensive coordinator and Ravens personnel guy! Seems like a proven combination from my perspective. What could possibly go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 which resulted in an 8-8 season under his management. (Yes, believe it or not Patriots fans are actually quite knowledgable about the goings on of a division rival) You lost me, and blew your note above as soon as you stated the record. If you know what you rivals are doing, how do you not know they were 9-7, not 8-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I followed you. That was my point on Mangini. He has experience at HC and isn't coming from college. One thing for sure, no college coaches. They don't work. Especially Paul Brown he was a failure coming from college and Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer and Don Coryell and Tom Coughlin and Sid Gillman and Jim Lee Howell and Hank Stram......to name a few busts who came from college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Lets hire McKay and let him hire the coach. I dont like Pioli from what ive read and I dont want "SAvage New and Improved part -2" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 But in general I hope everything works out for you guys potentially bringing in a former Patriot defensive coordinator and Ravens personnel guy! Seems like a proven combination from my perspective. What could possibly go wrong? Why do you have to be such a dick about it? None of us know the correct solution, If Lerner truly feels Mangini is the man for this team, then I hope he goes for it, rather then making a more popular decision and regretting it. It's his call, we're just hoping for the best. Personally, I'm not impressed with Mangini's record. 2004 with Crennel as DC, patriots defense was #2 by points and #9 by yards. 2005 with Mangini as DC, they dropped to 17th and 26th. 2006 without Mangini they are 2nd and 6th Jets defense was ranked 7th and 12th in 04-05 under Herm Edwards, then 20th, 18th and 16th with Mangini. I just don't see that he's ever really accomplished anything. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 You lost me, and blew your note above as soon as you stated the record. If you know what you rivals are doing, how do you not know they were 9-7, not 8-8 You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely. He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call. Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 I just don't see that he's ever really accomplished anything. Zombo Apparently he is a good interviewee. Lerner is enamored with him. Enthralled with him. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 2004 with Crennel as DC, patriots defense was #2 by points and #9 by yards. 2005 with Mangini as DC, they dropped to 17th and 26th. 2006 without Mangini they are 2nd and 6th Jets defense was ranked 7th and 12th in 04-05 under Herm Edwards, then 20th, 18th and 16th with Mangini. I just don't see that he's ever really accomplished anything. Zombo Those are some damning statistics, thanks for doing the legwork. I'd say it isn't that he's never really accomplished anything. It's much much worse than that. But I think you meant to undersell the fact... Hopefully it's his supposed rapport with players that we'd hire him for. Not his defensive creativity/playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSixPat Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call. Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally. You really think I don't know exactly what their record was? :rofl: Had the Bills not given that game away with a bonehead playcall the Patriots are in the playoffs right now. I don't care who Jauron or anyone else blames for it. You sure can't give any credit to Mangini's "genius" for the Bills giving that game away - for all intents and purposes he's an 8-8 coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Had the Bills not given that game away with a bonehead playcall the Patriots are in the playoffs right now. Oh okay genius. I guess losing to Mangini's Jets had nothing to do with you guys missing the playoffs. Or taking a giant shit against the Steelers had zero to do with you missing the playoffs. After Pittsburgh handed you your ass, you beat SEA (by only 3), OAK, ARI and BUF. I am not impressed. Save your Bostonian whining for another board, we're all stocked up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call. Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally. Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Especially Paul Brown he was a failure coming from college and Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer and Don Coryell and Tom Coughlin and Sid Gillman and Jim Lee Howell and Hank Stram......to name a few busts who came from college Let's see Rich, 90% of your list include guys from 20 years ago. This ain't the same NFL it was 20 years ago. So let me be more specific, it doesn't work today in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely. But what was their record? I didn't realize the NFL took away wins for another teams bad coaching. So I guess you didn't see Favre go through his last 4 games with 2 TDs and 8 INTs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game What Jauron said was “Clearly the responsibility for the last call, the play-action pass, that was mine”. That's not sayign he called the play, only that he is responsible for it, like any good HC should say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegasdogg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game FAIL. No he didn't call the play, and he never said he called the play. He is a HC, and they're responsible for the team and how it plays. Did you expect him to throw his QB and OC under a bus? Here is a newsflash: Head coaches in the NFL hire OC's to call the plays and put the package together. Head coaches take the fall or reap the rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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