The Official Nfl Cba/lockout Thread

[choco]

the players are simply part of the product....partners? name me one other business, anywhere, where the union employees are partners with the brass. just because the players help the league gain popularity is no basis to call them partners.....that assertion is xxxxing laughable.

 

NFL Proposal

 

Summary of NFL Proposal to NFLPA

 

Posted 7 hours ago

 

* a

* a

 

Here is a summary of the NFL's prosposal to the NFLPA.

 

SUMMARY OF NFL PROPOSAL

 

1. We more than split the economic difference between us, increasing our proposed cap for 2011 significantly and accepting the Union’s proposed cap number for 2014 ($161 million per club).

 

2. An entry level compensation system based on the Union’s “rookie cap” proposal, rather than the wage scale proposed by the clubs. Under the NFL proposal, players drafted in rounds 2-7 would be paid the same or more than they are paid today. Savings from the first round would be reallocated to veteran players and benefits.

 

3. A guarantee of up to $1 million of a player’s salary for the contract year after his injury – the first time that the clubs have offered a standard multi-year injury guarantee.

 

4. Immediate implementation of changes to promote player health and safety by

 

A. Reducing the off-season program by five weeks, reducing OTAs from 14 to 10, and limiting on-field practice time and contact;

 

B. Limiting full-contact practices in the preseason and regular season; and

 

C. Increasing number of days off for players.

 

5. Commit that any change to an 18-game season will be made only by agreement and that the 2011 and 2012 seasons will be played under the current 16-game format.

 

6. Owner funding of $82 million in 2011-12 to support additional benefits to former players, which would increase retirement benefits for more than 2000 former players by nearly 60 percent.

 

7. Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life.

 

8. Third party arbitration for appeals in the drug and steroid programs.

 

9. Improvements in the Mackey plan, disability plan, and degree completion bonus program.

 

10. A per-club cash minimum spend of 90 percent of the salary cap over three seasons.

 

 

greed at its finest folks....looks to me like the owners were willing to concede quite a bit. health care for life? less practices, less hitting, more money?

 

lmao...xxxx the players...i hope the greedy xxxxs starve.

[kshutchins]

 

7. Offer current players the opportunity to remain in the player medical plan for life.

 

greed at its finest folks....looks to me like the owners were willing to concede quite a bit. health care for life? less practices, less hitting, more money?

 

lmao...xxxx the players...i hope the greedy xxxxs starve.

 

 

The "opportunity" to remain in the player medical plan for life does not sound like the same thing as "health care for life."

 

So what is it that the players want which is above and beyond what the owners are offering?

[choco]

sorry for my tone in this thread.....im lashing out at the wrong folks.

[choco]

The "opportunity" to remain in the player medical plan for life does not sound like the same thing as "health care for life."

 

So what is it that the players want which is above and beyond what the owners are offering?

it can be if they so choose it to be though....this was not an option before, as i believe there was a small time after retirement that players were covered medically. after that time expired, players were on their own to provide their own medical costs even if the cost was associated with a football injury. giving them the "opportunity" to stay in the player medical plan certainly is the "opportunity" to have health care for life....but that was only a small point.

 

ive been reading on this all day, and from what i can gather, De Smith sold the players down the river trying to make a name for himself. the players wanted to see all the financial information for all 32 teams for the past 10 years before they would accept any CBA agreement. it all hinged on that point, as was stated by De Smith himself. this is because the union reps feel the players are partners with the owners rather than employees.....a truly misguided and unprecedented belief.

 

now, the problem lies with the "sham" clause....very shortly and quickly from memory: a clause in section 3 of the CBA said that the NFLPA had to wait until the CBA expired before they could decertify because of issues in 1990 decertification. since the NFLPA filed decertification papers prior to midnight on Friday, this decertification "ploy" will be ruled invalid by the courts according to the CBA that was in place at the time of the decertificiation, especially since the judge will not be Doty this time. so a lockout will be in effect since De Smith, possibly the dumbest xxxxing lawyer in the history of litigation, didn't even read the CBA.

 

i do feel bad for the player in that De Smith seems to be acting in a selfish manner to make a name for himself rather than trying to actually help the players. there seems to be some issues with the antitrust clause, but i need to read quite a bit more to really understand whats going on there. needless to say, i think the NFLPA just xxxxed themselves by choosing to look at this situation with tunnel vision, and choosing to decertify no matter what the offer was.

 

$0.02

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell released the following statement late Friday evening.

Dear NFL Fan,

 

When I wrote to you last on behalf of the NFL, we promised you that we would work tirelessly to find a collectively bargained solution to our differences with the players' union. Subsequent to that letter to you, we agreed that the fastest way to a fair agreement was for everyone to work together through a mediation process. For the last three weeks I have personally attended every session of mediation, which is a process our clubs sincerely believe in.

 

Unfortunately, I have to tell you that earlier today the players' union walked away from mediation and collective bargaining and has initiated litigation against the clubs. In an effort to get a fair agreement now, our clubs offered a deal today that was, among other things, designed to have no adverse financial impact on veteran players in the early years, and would have met the players’ financial demands in the latter years of the agreement.

 

The proposal we made included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee a reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).

 

It was a deal that offered compromise, and would have ensured the well-being of our players and guaranteed the long-term future for the fans of the great game we all love so much. It was a deal where everyone would prosper.

 

We remain committed to collective bargaining and the federal mediation process until an agreement is reached, and call on the union to return to negotiations immediately. NFL players, clubs, and fans want an agreement. The only place it can be reached is at the bargaining table.

 

While we are disappointed with the union's actions, we remain steadfastly committed to reaching an agreement that serves the best interest of NFL players, clubs and fans, and thank you for your continued support of our League. First and foremost it is your passion for the game that drives us all, and we will not lose sight of this as we continue to work for a deal that works for everyone.

[hillis4prez420]

I really think, if this goes as far as it seems it will, that we fans should boycott them. They are fighting over how to split 9 billion dollars that they haven't made yet. Lets see that 9 billion turn into 1 billion. The players and owners are all taking a big shit all over where they eat right now, and I hope that they end up taking a bite of it. Although, at the end of the day, I'm just really hungover, and most likely not in any shape to be typing, so disregard anything that I have put into words; for it makes no sense to me

[Bob806]

I replied back to Roger Goodell on his letter, basically told him to can Jerry Jones and a deal would get done.

 

This union-busting crap is going on right here in Ohio, Wisconsin, and soon New Jersey. It's a bunch of BS....if the NFLPA asked to see the owners books, they should honor that request. That is a part of negotiations-the owners aren't being honest & forthcoming on this simple request. Also, it is the owners who set a crappy tone, threatening a lockout during last season's competition.

 

People may not like unions, fine, you are entitled to that opinion. This is simply another attack on unions....it's just silly when it involves billionaires vs millionaires.

[kvozel]

I replied back to Roger Goodell on his letter, basically told him to can Jerry Jones and a deal would get done.

 

This union-busting crap is going on right here in Ohio, Wisconsin, and soon New Jersey. It's a bunch of BS....if the NFLPA asked to see the owners books, they should honor that request. That is a part of negotiations-the owners aren't being honest & forthcoming on this simple request. Also, it is the owners who set a crappy tone, threatening a lockout during last season's competition.

 

People may not like unions, fine, you are entitled to that opinion. This is simply another attack on unions....it's just silly when it involves billionaires vs millionaires.

 

 

Glad you brought up the union thing. Bust the unions I say, especially the public sector unions. In today's business climate, I can't think of anything good a union does. Oh, sorry, I forgot about those evil corporations (and state governments) that expect a good day of work for a ridiculious amout of pay, with a pension sometimes more than 100% of salary.

 

Since when do million dollar primadonnas need protection from Jerry Jones? Get a life. No other business gives away over 50% of revenue to the employees, and that's what they are, employees. Don't like it, take your millions and go somewhere else. I for one love football and the Browns, but a year without playing, big deal. Life goes on. Just seems silly to me that the highest paid players like Manning and Brady are the ones filing the lawsuit. What's their grievance? I think this is, as stated earlier, a powerplay by D. Smith, trying to make a name for himself, and he is; the guy who killed football.

 

It has nothing to do with unions and collective bargaining. It's about greed. Sure, the ownwers are greedy, but they have a business to run. They are not in the business for our benfit, or the benefit of the players. We are the consumers, and we can go elsewhere. Players are employees, and can got to work are McDonals as far as I care.

[ballpeen]

Well if that's the case why don't the owners open the books for the nflpa? If they already have the data which they don't, they should'nt have a problem. The owners want the players to take the pay cut. But I feel the owners are being very dishonest on what they say they make, or there wouldn't be a big deal. Right?

Also the tv money that was given to the nfl was to keep the nfl afloat for the long hall. So that says they wanted the lockout. I can't take sides they both suck. But in my eyes the league seems to be more deceitful.

I seen Jerry jones he looks a little nervous.

After building that stadium he needs football.

 

 

 

Dude, just get this through your head.....How much do you make....open you audited books for us.

 

 

The friggen players want to compare what they make with the friggen owner of the business.

 

 

How much do you want to bet the average NFL player makes closer to the owner of the business then does any normal union worker??

 

 

I won't just bet donuts here....this is a investment bet.

 

 

I think players make a high percentage of the take.

 

 

 

Screw the friggen players...I almost hope this does extend....let's see who can hold out before going broke.

 

 

 

I'll bet dollars to donuts Lerner walks away better than players do.

[Bob806]

Glad you brought up the union thing. Bust the unions I say, especially the public sector unions. In today's business climate, I can't think of anything good a union does. Oh, sorry, I forgot about those evil corporations (and state governments) that expect a good day of work for a ridiculious amout of pay, with a pension sometimes more than 100% of salary.

 

You can't think of anything good a union does? How about safe working conditions and a decent wage? That came about because of unions. Ask any of your lady friend workers, who are union....they make the same as a guy, where in non-union places they make about 20% less.

 

Fire & police need unions for personal protective equipment, staffing, & training. Teachers have classroom size language in their contracts, training as well.

 

We have all benefited from unions in this country. Don't believe all this Tea party rhetoric.

[SJ_Browns]

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/03/nfl_lockout_2011_commissioner.html

 

NEW YORK, New York –- There will be an NFL season in 2011.

 

That's what Commissioner Roger Goodell keeps saying. So do many of the owners and lots of players, even though labor talks collapsed, the union dissolved itself, and star players including MVP Tom Brady asked for a preliminary injunction to prevent a lockout hours before the league even implemented one.

 

Despite the nasty rhetoric of last week, no one would paint the doomsday scenario of no football come September. Instead, we hear Chargers president Dean Spanos say, "We will get through this. There will be a new agreement and we're looking forward to playing football this season."

 

And we hear Bears president Ted Phillips echo with "A deal will get done and we expect to play football in 2011."

 

Are they right? And how will they get there?

 

"There will be no negotiating for a while," said Gary Roberts, dean of the Indiana University School of Law in Indianapolis. "Both sides will wait to see how the legal maneuvering plays out.

 

"Where we are after all the mediated negotiations is the players reached a point where they figure they can get a better deal if they file an antitrust lawsuit than continue to bargain at the table. The league would have preferred to be in collective bargaining and lock the players out because they feel it's the best way to maximize their leverage.

 

"Ultimately, come August and September, they feel they will have more leverage to get a better deal."

 

August? September? Not very encouraging.

 

"This is classic collective bargaining, with each side using their tactical devices to increase bargaining leverage. At the end of this, before the season is lost, they will hammer out an agreement."

 

For now, the players will meet in Marco Island, Fla., beginning Wednesday, an annual convention that has taken place in Maui most years — that's where DeMaurice Smith was elected successor to the late Gene Upshaw as executive director in 2009. Smith was charged with keeping the status quo as much as possible because the players liked the deal Upshaw and then-Commissioner Paul Tagliabue struck in 2006.

 

They will plot strategy for the next few months, hopeful the request for a preliminary injunction filed Friday by Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and seven other players, including Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller, will stop the lockout. The players also filed an antitrust suit against the league.

 

Should the injunction be granted, the NFL would be forced to operate while a new CBA is discussed, although the rules under which the league would be doing business are uncertain. When the players' strike failed in 1987 and the union decertified in 1989, the situation was similar. And the players' success in the courts eventually led to a new labor pact in 1993 that included free agency.

 

Decertification means players no longer are protected under labor law but instead are now allowed to take their chances in federal court under antitrust law.

 

Most importantly from the end of the strike — and the end of the replacement games the NFL staged while the union was on picket lines — until the new agreement was reached, no games were missed.

 

"As a veteran and lifetime fan of professional football, I have experienced the business with uncertainty firsthand," said Seattle running back/kick returner Leon Washington, who agreed to a new four-year contract two weeks ago. "I feel for the coaches, and facility and stadium employees as their lives could be affected. ... With all this being said, I'm optimistic that there will be football played in 2011."

 

The owners begin their usual planning for the next season with their annual meetings in New Orleans starting next Sunday. Not that anything is normal about this offseason.

 

Still, they will hear from the competition committee, which has been meeting on potential rules changes, and will get reports from a variety of other committees. That includes the labor committee that failed to reach agreement with the players.

 

And the owners also will plot strategy, knowing very well that corporate and broadcast partners and sponsors already are making plans for their late summer and fall spending.

 

For the next few weeks, fans can get their fill with the NFL draft, a cottage industry unto itself. While fans focus on pro days and workouts for college players headed into the April 28-30 draft, the business side of the game will hunker down in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis, where Brady and his peers brought their lawsuit.

 

After that, barring court decisions that force some movement, it will be time to get nervous, if not panicky.

 

"We definitely will not see a deal reached before seeing some of these rulings from the courts," Roberts said. "Neither sides know what their risks are until the court rules.

 

"As for when the parties begin to feel the heat sufficiently to do a deal, we can't predict. Again, my guess is won't see a deal done before August or September."

[Erie Dawg]

Dude, just get this through your head.....How much do you make....open you audited books for us.

Huh? Wtf are you talking about, "dude"?

I simply stated if the nfl has nothing to hide what's the big deal?

But they do or it would be a non issue.

simple as that.

 

The friggen players want to compare what they make with the friggen owner of the business.

 

 

How much do you want to bet the average NFL player makes closer to the owner of the business then does any normal union worker??

Ahhh. How bout zero. Im starting to think you had one too many whiskey sours. Not sure what you are trying to say or how your linking me with this statement.

 

 

I won't just bet donuts here....this is a investment bet.

 

 

I think players make a high percentage of the take.

 

 

 

Screw the friggen players...I almost hope this does extend....let's see who can hold out before going broke.

 

I could honestly care less about who wins or loses I simply stated my .02

it just disgusts me to see people bashing unions like they are all equal. Educate yourselves all it is in the end is the rich turning the middle class against themselves. Its what they want because you know who wins? Not the blue collar Americans.

 

 

[SJ_Browns]

Should the injunction be granted, the NFL would be forced to operate while a new CBA is discussed, although the rules under which the league would be doing business are uncertain. When the players' strike failed in 1987 and the union decertified in 1989, the situation was similar. And the players' success in the courts eventually led to a new labor pact in 1993 that included free agency.

 

interesting.

[kvozel]

You can't think of anything good a union does? How about safe working conditions and a decent wage? That came about because of unions. Ask any of your lady friend workers, who are union....they make the same as a guy, where in non-union places they make about 20% less.

 

Fire & police need unions for personal protective equipment, staffing, & training. Teachers have classroom size language in their contracts, training as well.

 

We have all benefited from unions in this country. Don't believe all this Tea party rhetoric.

 

Your key word is "have". I don't dispute the benefit unions have provided in the past. Interesting you bring up teachers, though. My wife is a teacher, and the teacher union is one of the top reasons our education system is the way it is (bad, not great). Yearly pay increases tied to nothing but how long they have been there. Why not merit increases? Have a bad teacher, want to get rid of that teacher, quit dreaming. Pensions well above the norm of private sector workers (with little or no contribution), hundreds of days of sick day leave that continue to accrue and can be taken for almost any reason.

 

Tea Party rhetoric? I'll take lower government intrusion, lower taxes, personal responsibility and less deficit spending all day long. You can have your socialist share the wealth, just don't take my wealth.

[Guest c-dawg]

Tea Party rhetoric? I'll take lower government intrusion, lower taxes, personal responsibility and less deficit spending all day long. You can have your socialist share the wealth, just don't take my wealth.

 

Thanks for confirming that you are a lunatic.

 

"Socialist share the wealth"? WHO bailed out the corporations? The taxpayers. There is some redistribution of wealth for you, idiot. They are taking our wealth and you are defending them. CORPORATE WELFARE! Get a clue!

 

Also, are you aware that 60% of the top 100 earning corporations in America PAY NO TAXES. Personal responsibility and lower taxes? You make me f*cking laugh.

 

You are also a fool not to realize it was Bush who ran up the deficit. WHERE were you pricks then? Sucking on Bush's balls you lame sh*t. Now you dare complain like you even understand what a budget or deficit are.

 

Wealth? All you have is a wealth of ignorance and shameful behavior.

[Canton Mike]

I am a Fan, therefore, regardless who is/isn't at fault, who is greedy, who is a socialist, liberal, etc.....

I WANT NFL FOOTBALL IN 2011!!!!

THERE, I said it!

To the involved parties...."Git 'er done boys!"

Mike

[hoorta]

Thanks for confirming that you are a lunatic.

 

"Socialist share the wealth"? WHO bailed out the corporations? The taxpayers. There is some redistribution of wealth for you, idiot. They are taking our wealth and you are defending them. CORPORATE WELFARE! Get a clue!

 

Also, are you aware that 60% of the top 100 earning corporations in America PAY NO TAXES. Personal responsibility and lower taxes? You make me f*cking laugh.

 

You are also a fool not to realize it was Bush who ran up the deficit. WHERE were you pricks then? Sucking on Bush's balls you lame sh*t. Now you dare complain like you even understand what a budget or deficit are.

 

Wealth? All you have is a wealth of ignorance and shameful behavior.

 

Come on guys take it to political discussion, it isn't football. I'll put my .02 in and shut up. I'll have to a certain extent side with Mr Vozel. If you grew up in Cleveland, ever wonder where all those steel mills went? And why? When I worked down in the flats in the early 70s my mom's cousin was making as much as a crane operator @ Republic Steel as our plant manager was raking in. I was playing team tennis, and one of my teammates (a teacher BTW) had nice time summer employment gig sweeping floors @ J&L for double what I was making as a year of college lab tech. The Steel industry was paying so much in salary they couldn't afford to update decades old equipment, and the Japanese blew them out of the water with higher efficiency mills. Garment workers union? Gone to Sri Lanka or Indonesia sorry to say.

 

And if you wonder why everything is Made in China I'd suggest you take a look at THIS. Uncle Sam ain't the solution- he's the problem, we have regulations on top of regulations that the Chinese don't have to deal with.

 

Speaking of teachers- making about $50,000 a year getting three months off every summer, plus every Holiday, and every day (at least in Dayton) when there's 2" of snow when I have to haul my ass into work regardless (health care) is a pretty sweet gig in my book. In the past unions were able to extort wages & benefits that had no relation to the value of the product being produced, and to a certain extent that's still the case.

 

If you want to blame big bad business or big bad Bush, (who was neither compassionate or conservative) OK by me. Personally I would just as soon have seen GM fail- someone would have come in to pick up the pieces. And I do own stock in a few companies, and without fail every year someone puts a flyer on the annual agenda to limit executive salaries, and every year, it gets voted down, mainly because the executives who run the company have more shares than anyone else combined- you think they're going to take a pay cut?

[kvozel]

Thanks for confirming that you are a lunatic.

 

"Socialist share the wealth"? WHO bailed out the corporations? The taxpayers. There is some redistribution of wealth for you, idiot. They are taking our wealth and you are defending them. CORPORATE WELFARE! Get a clue!

 

Also, are you aware that 60% of the top 100 earning corporations in America PAY NO TAXES. Personal responsibility and lower taxes? You make me f*cking laugh.

 

You are also a fool not to realize it was Bush who ran up the deficit. WHERE were you pricks then? Sucking on Bush's balls you lame sh*t. Now you dare complain like you even understand what a budget or deficit are.

 

Wealth? All you have is a wealth of ignorance and shameful behavior.

 

Need I say more? I rest my case.

[Bob806]

Hoorta- the thread is about the lockout, so I just chimed in with my opinion. I'm not going to get into a lenghty argument over unions, get political, etc. on here. You're right, we come here to talk Browns stuff.

 

I'm done opining on this. I'm not an expert at much, but I do know lots about contract/labor talks.

 

I just want a 2011 season & beyond.

[SJ_Browns]

i'm watching nfl live and adam schefter is reporting that the nflpa has made a call out to the top 17 players not to show up to the draft.

[SJ_Browns]

adam schefter said (in this order) san francisco, tennessee, carolina, philly (kolb) and washington (mcnabb) are the teams that will be hurt the most by the lockout. herm edwards and mark schlereth(sp?) said cincy (palmer situation) should be on that list to.

[Guest c-dawg]

Need I say more? I rest my case.

 

Actually, you just conceded. Thinkin' hurts don't it?

 

Don't you realize the price people had to pay to get these benefits?

 

You act like all the union injustices since could somehow be equal to all the deaths and abuse that came before unions. You are sad and wrong and a tool of the folks who really have wealth. Here's a clue, you wouldn't be posting here if you had real $.

 

OK Mods, I am done with this.

[Canton Mike]

i'm watching nfl live and adam schefter is reporting that the nflpa has made a call out to the top 17 players not to show up to the draft.

 

Meaning the top 17 draft eligible Collegiate players? That would be telling each of those kids to scrap what is probably the biggest day of their life to date. That's unbelievable, but IF true, I hope those kids tell 'em to GO TO HELL!

Mike

[Bob806]

Actually, you just conceded. Thinkin' hurts don't it?

 

Don't you realize the price people had to pay to get these benefits?

 

You act like all the union injustices since could somehow be equal to all the deaths and abuse that came before unions. You are sad and wrong and a tool of the folks who really have wealth. Here's a clue, you wouldn't be posting here if you had real $.

 

OK Mods, I am done with this.

 

Good job....over & out for me too.

[SJ_Browns]

Meaning the top 17 draft eligible Collegiate players?

 

Mike

 

yes.

[kvozel]

Actually, you just conceded. Thinkin' hurts don't it?

 

Don't you realize the price people had to pay to get these benefits?

 

You act like all the union injustices since could somehow be equal to all the deaths and abuse that came before unions. You are sad and wrong and a tool of the folks who really have wealth. Here's a clue, you wouldn't be posting here if you had real $.

 

OK Mods, I am done with this.

 

I'm glad your happy. Maybe one of these days you will actually be able to have an intelligent conversation without personal name calling. Let me know if that ever happens.

[choco]

hmmm...

 

great tactic...bullying kids

 

yup..unions are great and all. i wonder how many thugs will end up on any of those kids doorsteps if they get anywhere close to radio city.

 

wait.....i thought they weren't a union? lol....what a sham.

[The Gipper]

hmmm...

 

great tactic...bullying kids

 

yup..unions are great and all. i wonder how many thugs will end up on any of those kids doorsteps if they get anywhere close to radio city.

 

wait.....i thought they weren't a union? lol....what a sham.

 

 

The key question will be: which judge will this litigation be placed in front of. For 20 years Judge David Doty up there in Minneapolis has been assigned all matters of labor relations between the NFL and the NFLPA. If the case is again placed on his docket, it is suspected that he will again pretty much take the Union's side in these matters. However, if it is assigned to a different judge, and that judge keeps it and doesn't pass it on to Doty, then things could be different.

Certainly the "Decertification" is a sham. I doubt that anyone except the directors and lawyers for the NFLPA would argue otherwise. But, it is a sham that the courts have allowed to occur in the past.

I am not saying that the owners are any less culpable than the players in this regard, but the fact is, this matter should be resolved through labor negotiations, not through litigation. The union has decided to turn to litigation simply because it has been successful for them in the past.

[choco]

yeah...i in no way think the owners are squeeky clean here....neither side is. but this is a pretty low blow by the PA to bring these kids into it....

[Brownsfan_Althaus]

this needs to be figured out asap. i don't think I would make it to 2012 without watching my browns..