Baltimore-Pittsburgh

[djdawg2010]

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little fxcked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to fxckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

 

 

Love that movie!

[DawgEatSteel]

i understand you guys squabbling over this game but no offense:

 

why are you doing it on THE BROWNS BOARD?

 

 

 

they love us....all these tool douche bandwagon football fans need to have their discussion on our boards

[The Gipper]

Art Model moved his team (the Cleveland Browns) from Cleveland to Baltimore. Then they changed the name, and the city of Cleveland was given another team and allowed to call them the Browns.

 

The Raves took the Browns drafting position following the move.

 

The reason this happened is because the Browns moved to Balitmore.

 

People don't like to accept this, but this is what happened. Also, Lerner was the connection. He brokered the deal.

 

Sorry. Still a Browns fan. Just understand the truth.

 

 

You need to listen to your own statement. The name of the Cleveland Browns has never changed. A new name for a NEW franchise was given to Baltimore. That being the Ravens.

No other franchise has EVER been allowed to be called the Browns.

The Ravens being given the Browns drafting position was simply a matter of convenience. The Browns were inactive and the Ravens had to be slotted somewhere. That was the most logical spot.

 

If you don't want to accept and understand this legal, actual and scientific truth, you can then just shove your F**king head up your own F**king ass, like a Dodo bird.

[DawgEatSteel]

i want the gipper to be my lawyer

[The Gipper]

I keep reading your posts hoping that the asshaterry will somehow take a back seat to some intelligent discussion, but alas, no such luck!

 

If you found one Steeler fan who hung his hat on Bradshaw and the Steel Curtain you would be looking at a dead Steeler fan. We hang our hat on the best franchise in all of sports, the best winningest team in the NFL since the merger, the current team of the decade....on and on! You simply can't get any more stupid that that statement!

 

Are you old enough to be playing hooky from school?

 

 

Team of the Decade? Of the 00s decade that team is clearly the Patriots. Of the 2010s, that of course totally remains to be seen. We haven't even had a single champion yet this decade.

 

Please recall the formula I developed for establishing the Team of the Decade which I applied to ever decade since the 1920s:

I awarded 10 points to a team for winning a title (SB or NFL/AFL/AAFC). 6 points for losing the title game (SB/NFL/AFL/AAFC), 3 points for losing a conference title game, 1 point for making the playoffs. On this scale then for the 2000s the score of each NFL team is as follows:

 

1. Patriots 41 points. Team of the Decade

2. Steelers 28 points.

3. Colts 25 points

4. Eagles 21 points

5. Giants 20 points

6. Ravens 17 points

7. Saints 14 points

7. Buccaneers 14 points

9. Raiders 10 points

9. Panthers 10 points

9. Seahawks 10 points

12. Rams 9 points

13. Bears 8 points

13. Packers 8 points

13. Vikings 8 points

16. Chargers 7 points

16. Jets 7 points

16. Titans 7 points

16. Cardinals 7 points

20. Broncos 6 points

21. Falcons 5 points

22. Cowboys 4 points

23. Dolphins 3 points

24. Jaguars 2 points

24. Bengals 2 points

24. Redskins 2 points

24. Chiefs 2 points

24. 49ers 2 points

29. Browns 1 point

Lions, Bills, Texans 0 points

 

Teams of prior decades:

1990s: Cowboys

1980s: 49ers

1970s: Steelers

1960s: Packers

1950s: Browns

1940s: Bears

1930s: Packers

1020s: Bears

 

[Captain Cheesedick]

You need to listen to your own statement. The name of the Cleveland Browns has never changed. A new name for a NEW franchise was given to Baltimore. That being the Ravens.

No other franchise has EVER been allowed to be called the Browns.

The Ravens being given the Browns drafting position was simply a matter of convenience. The Browns were inactive and the Ravens had to be slotted somewhere. That was the most logical spot.

 

If you don't want to accept and understand this legal, actual and scientific truth, you can then just shove your F**king head up your own F**king ass, like a Dodo bird.

 

 

Makes NO logical sense whatsoever. If the Ravens were a brand new franchise why wouldn't they get the first draft slot? Wouldn't it be logical for a expansion franchise to get the first draft position.

Since when does a brand new team get "slotted" into another team draft place? I've only seen them get 1 picks. Why didn't the Browns "slot" into another teams draft position when they decided to become "active" again.? They got the same treatment as Carolina, and Jacksonville, and before them Tampa Bay and Seattle.

 

The NFL based the Ravens draft on the Browns record. Why? Doesn't sound logical to me?

 

The Browns packed up all their stuff, in moving trucks, and players, ownership, record, uniforms, etc and moved the team to Baltimore. After this was done, some wording changes were made to appease Browns fans. AFTER the team moved, the NFL, in a legal settlement, said Cleveland can have an expansion team, or another team can move to Cleveland.

 

Sorry bout this real logic. Play with the words all you want. This is the real story.

 

Lets use you little McDonalds/Burger King example. If McDonalds takes all it's inventory, moves into a Burger King building, sets up everything and serves McDonalds food, it doesn't matter what the sign says, you're eating McDonalds food. Starting another McDonalds in the fist building, doesn't mean the first move didn't happen.

 

It's not about liking the Browns. It's accepting the FACT. (not legal wording)

[The Gipper]

Makes NO logical sense whatsoever.

 

Who says it has to make logical sense. Lots of things that have happened in history don't make logical sense. It didn't make logical sense to engage in half the wars we have been engaged in, but we fought those wars anyway.

 

 

If the Ravens were a brand new franchise why wouldn't they get the first draft slot? Wouldn't it be logical for a expansion franchise to get the first draft position.

 

Again, logic hasn't got a cabbage fart in hell to do with it. It was part of the settlement agreement.

 

Since when does a brand new team get "slotted" into another team draft place?

 

Since when the NFL said they were to be slotted into that other team's draft place, since that team was not going to be active and was not going to be drafting.

 

 

I've only seen them get 1 picks. Why didn't the Browns "slot" into another teams draft position when they decided to become "active" again.? They got the same treatment as Carolina, and Jacksonville, and before them Tampa Bay and Seattle.

 

Yes, they did. So what? They neither required nor asked for your approval when they came up with this plan.

 

The NFL based the Ravens draft on the Browns record. Why? Doesn't sound logical to me?

 

Sure, it makes perfect logical sense. The Browns were not going to be playing, the Ravens were. The NFL didn't want a void in that slot so they just stuck the Ravens in there

 

The Browns packed up all their stuff, in moving trucks,

 

No, the Browns didn't. There was a court injunction in place preventing Modell from moving anything.

 

 

and players, (eventually some players moved to B-more, yes). ownership, record, (NO, neither of these moved. The Browns franchise ownership moved into The Cleveland Browns Trust, with Mr. Bill Futterer as the appointed trustee, headquartered in the Browns Berea offices) uniforms, (maybe not, I believe all the Browns uniforms stayed right here. The Ravens never used them) etc and moved the team to Baltimore. After this was done, some wording changes were made to appease Browns fans. AFTER the team moved, the NFL, in a legal settlement, said Cleveland can have an expansion team, or another team can move to Cleveland.

 

Again....NO, the legal settlement came first....any movement of anything by Modell was enjoined by the court. Only after the settlement was negotiated and implemented was anything really moved. Maybe a few chattels were hauled off, but the franchise, the ownership, , the records, history etc. never moved. The player agreements were only assigned from the Browns to the Ravens after the settlement.

 

Sorry bout this real logic. Play with the words all you want. This is the real story.

 

I am sorry that the facts get in the way of your delusion. This isn't word play, it is fact. If you want to think your fantasy is real, fine. Just go find some prozac or something to help you along.

 

Lets use you little McDonalds/Burger King example. If McDonalds takes all it's inventory, moves into a Burger King building, sets up everything and serves McDonalds food, it doesn't matter what the sign says, you're eating McDonalds food. Starting another McDonalds in the fist building, doesn't mean the first move didn't happen.

 

It's not about liking the Browns. It's accepting the FACT. (not legal wording)

 

 

How would you like to wager $1000.00 that my version is correct?

 

 

[manbearpig]

How would you like to wager $1000.00 that my version is correct?

 

He doesn't have $1000. Now quit tempting to start robbing and or become a drug dealer.

[Captain Cheesedick]

How would you like to wager $1000.00 that my version is correct?

 

Listen, I undertand you are basing your argument on "legal" definitions. My argument is based in reality. You can word it any way it makes you feel better.

 

If you are stopped for driving 75mph in a 35 mph, and the police decide not to give you a ticket, we were still speeding. You can argue you wern't speeding because you didn't recieve a ticket, but the reality is that you were speeding.

 

I can see what your point is. I just happen not to buy into it.

 

Your view that the NFL decided to add a team to Baltimore (that contained the Browns players) and remove a team from Cleveland for a while.

I believe that the Browns owner moved his team to Baltimore, and the NFL re-worded everything to revise what happend to appease fans.

 

No need for name calling.

 

 

[Go 'Losers]

Ok ill take a stab at it, and im only speaking for myself here.

I don't hate Baltimore. Their fans had nothing to do with Art taking the team to their city, and if the tables were reversed we Clevelanders would give two sh*** and embrace any team that came to our city irregardless of where they came from.

And to take it one step further, I think that most Cleveland Browns fans are so utterly blinded and filled with hate for the Pittsburgh Steelers that hating anyone else as much or even approaching to hate ANY team as much will fall comparatively short.

I'll be the first to admit it, too. I think most Browns fans are jealous of the Steeler organization (though not many fans will admit it.) We hate that we can't beat you, we hate that you own us since we've came back, and every time you guys beat us it makes the hate that much more deep and intense. That's the truth.

Hating the Ravens just doesn't have the history or meaningful games behind it to produce any form of true hatred like we have for the Steelers. When that time comes, I think even still we will hate Pittsburgh more. It's just in our blood.

VERY insightful point, Baltimoreans didn't steal the Browns but they sure as heck would embrace a team that came their way.

 

Sometimes we forget its not the city, its the owner.

[Slurp and Burp]

Still talkin' Steelers on a Browns message board I see.

 

 

[Captain Cheesedick]

You have to understand that for many Browns fans to accept the reality about the Browns leaving Cleveland would mean accepting that they and their city simply aren't the fans, and the city, that they like to think they are

 

It's like the no good bum who's wife divorces him. When he tells the story..... he left her! Furthermore, the way he tells it, she was the no good lazy bitch. Despite the fact that she went on to be an ultra successful person while he continued to be the same bum.............sound familiar?

 

It had nothing to do with us fans. It was due to poor decisions made by Model, along with city politics that forced the move. Also, i believe Lerner made out ok on the deal also.

 

In fact, we (the fans) were the reason we we awarded another team. We didn't take it laying down.

[Slurp and Burp]

you take it laying down these days and those days add up to 10 years of Browns ball which are toilet turds.

 

 

[Captain Cheesedick]

The city politics were definitely at work. And many would say the overall situation, including the fans, was at work. After all, it didn't take long in another city to build a winner and Cleveland and it's fans still have seen anything close. Just sayin!

 

I'm just sayin' that the fans were not the cause for the move. Fan support was there. It was poor business decisions and politics that made this move happen. We haven't had a winner, true, but that has nothing to do with the fans. And Baltimore did not build a winner due to fans.

 

 

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Well, at least you spelled all the words right. However, you sir, may take the trophy for being the dumbest. If you read my post, you will see that I wanted to hear from Cleveland fans, not you Squealer idiots. Now, get back on your sister and leave the football talk to the real fans.

Screw You Rat Fan... Low life Franchise stealing Fag ! You guys welcome The Browns , Cleveland's Pride and Joy ...with OPEN Arms. You guys are as LOW As they come. So just Shut the Hell up Jack-ass !!

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

I'm just sayin' that the fans were not the cause for the move. Fan support was there. It was poor business decisions and politics that made this move happen. We haven't had a winner, true, but that has nothing to do with the fans. And Baltimore did not build a winner due to fans.

You are 100% Correct.

[manbearpig]

HHAHA all Squeelers in this thread now? Don't you fags have something to do? Do you all live in your mom's basement? What in the xxxx are you doing, trolling this board when your team is in the play offs? Oh, my bad I forgot, you are sitting in your mom's basement jacking off to pictures of the Cleveland Browns, on THE BROWNS BOARD. xxxxing faggots.

[hoorta]

These guys invent all kinds of stuff to make their stories fit their wishes. It makes them feel better about their team's futility.

 

Sorry Stone Gipper isn't inventing anything. He's 100% correct. Players that used to be Browns moved to Baltimore.

 

There's really no sense in arguing with misguided ill-informed morons that want to debate the facts 15 years later. WE know what the truth of the matter is- and it seems that there's even a few Browns fans that have forgotten what happened. Personally we no longer care what you think about the situation.

 

As to the Browns bad luck lately, you see there's been an alien spacecraft hovering over Lake Erie emitting Zeta Beams at the Browns facility in Berea which has resulted in brain atrophy and stupification of all ownership and management for the last 45 years. They also target Browns #1 draft choices with Xi mesons which in most cases almost immediately degrades their ability to play football.

 

[1 more season]

, you were simply given the rights to maintain the former, name, colors, and records with an expansion team.

 

That's it right there. It comes down to a question. Do you root for the players or do you root for the the team they play for? If you root for the players then you might think that Browns became ravens or you might follow a player from team to team or city to city .

 

I myself root for the laundry, the team. If a player happens to be wearing a the uni of the team I support and they represent that team that is what I root for. If every player on the my team was replaced next year I would still root for that team. It doesn't mean that I support the organization or its management but the team or the idea of a team.

 

 

I believe that once a player puts on the jersey of your team they represent the city, state, region and the fans and people of that city or state. I have deep rooted reason for every team that I root for. This is why I don't buy a players jersey that has their name and number on it (actually don't get me started on that). The players don't feel the same loyalty that fans do they're just doing there job.

 

Oh yah, the team that represent the city of Cleveland simply went dormant for a couple of years before reemerging. ( you could debate whether or not they have ever emerged from that dormancy)

[1 more season]

Your correct to a degree, and maybe it's because the Browns haven't really had players worth rooting for. I do root for the team first and always but when you have outstanding players on your team?....I root for them to.

 

Question, you say you root for the colors?, the jersey? What if the Browns hadn't been given an expansion team and kept the colors? What if the everything went with them to Baltimore? Would you still root for the colors?

 

As far as a player representing city, state, region, etc......not so much! They represent the team that is overpaying them.....period!

 

The team that represented Cleveland packed up and moved to Baltimore, lock, stock, and barrel. The city of Cleveland was awarded an expansion along with the rights to the colors, name, and records. It's really very cut and dried.

On my to the gym then afternoon pick-up hockey but I do have a reply for you

[calfoxwc]

YOU'RE correct to a degree, and maybe it's because the Browns haven't really had players worth rooting for. I do root for the team first and always but when you have outstanding players on your team?....I root for them TOO.

 

Question -->: <-- you say you root for the colors?, the jersey? What if the Browns hadn't been given an expansion team and kept the colors? What if the everything went with them to Baltimore? Would you still root for the colors?

 

*******************

Your nonsense is more annoying to read when your spelling is so bad.

 

Oh yeah, you're a Steeler fan...

[The Gipper]

Listen, I undertand you are basing your argument on "legal" definitions. My argument is based in reality. You can word it any way it makes you feel better.

 

If you are stopped for driving 75mph in a 35 mph, and the police decide not to give you a ticket, we were still speeding. You can argue you wern't speeding because you didn't recieve a ticket, but the reality is that you were speeding.

 

I can see what your point is. I just happen not to buy into it.

 

Your view that the NFL decided to add a team to Baltimore (that contained the Browns players) and remove a team from Cleveland for a while.

I believe that the Browns owner moved his team to Baltimore, and the NFL re-worded everything to revise what happend to appease fans.

 

No need for name calling.

 

 

I won't call you names if you will stop being ignorant and accept the truth. My version of things is the version accepted by the following:

a. The National Football League

b. The Baltimore Ravens

c. The Cleveland Browns

d. The United States Federal Court system

e. The Ohio Court systems

f. Art Modell and his successors in interest

g. Al Lerner/Randy Lerner

 

Let's see who you have to back you up? Gomer Pyle?

[WRREBEL]

wow I can't beleive ravens and steelers fans have nothing else to do..

 

they are dumb

[The Gipper]

He sure can spin things can't he?

 

 

The easiest thing a lawyer can do is to recite simple, truthful facts and to cite reliable authority. In this case, it was easy.

The simple truthful facts are as I have related them, and the authorities behind my position have been listed in my prior post.

 

I wish every case I had was this easy.

[The Gipper]

Sorry Stone Gipper isn't inventing anything. He's 100% correct. Players that used to be Browns moved to Baltimore.

 

There's really no sense in arguing with misguided ill-informed morons that want to debate the facts 15 years later. WE know what the truth of the matter is- and it seems that there's even a few Browns fans that have forgotten what happened. Personally we no longer care what you think about the situation.

 

As to the Browns bad luck lately, you see there's been an alien spacecraft hovering over Lake Erie emitting Zeta Beams at the Browns facility in Berea which has resulted in brain atrophy and stupification of all ownership and management for the last 45 years. They also target Browns #1 draft choices with Xi mesons which in most cases almost immediately degrades their ability to play football.

 

 

Here is a simple statement from Black's Legal Dictionary regarding assignments:

 

•Assignment of contract

The unconditional transfer of all rights contained in a contract from the owner to another person or entity.

 

•Assignee

A person to whom a property right is transferred. The assignee takes control of the property and assumes all the legal rights and responsibilities of the contract....

 

This is how Cleveland Browns players who were under contract with the team at that time became Baltimore Ravens players. This happens in business every day and is accomplished by a simple 1 page memorandum signed by the assignor and the assignee.

[The Gipper]

Hoorta.....this is downright comical!

 

1. There are people who "KNOW" that the Holocaust didn't happen, does that make it so?

2. Bad luck?......Bad luck? That's like saying it gets cold here in the winter because of bad luck!

 

I give Browns fans credit for fighting for what they lost, they simply couldn't accept not having football here, that's awesome! But that's where the feel good story ends, your team moved away, you were simply given the rights to maintain the former, name, colors, and records with an expansion team.

 

 

The franchise stayed here which included all of the matters you stated above.

What do you think Bill Futterer was futtering around with for those 3 years?

He was managing an NFL franchise that simply didn't have active status.

Were expansion-like elements used in restocking the team with talent?

Yes, that was the best way to do it once it was determined that no other NFL team would be contracted in order to "resupply" the Cleveland Browns.

Recall that there was a serious possibility of that happening. Recall that 3-4 new stadiums were built in NFL cities to avoid having those franchises contracted and having all their assets transferred and assigned to the Cleveland Browns.

I recall that the Bengals were one of those under possible consideration to be deleted. The Buccaneers were another.

I believe that actually about 10 new stadiums were built as a result of the Browns situation...including the Steelers stadium.

[calfoxwc]

I can't imagine being so pitiful, that Browns fans would have to go to a ratbird or squeeler board, to get attention for themselves,

 

and be stupid but still not getting kicked off.

 

How DOES that work with ratbird and squeeler fans? Really.

[djdawg2010]

Your correct to a degree, and maybe it's because the Browns haven't really had players worth rooting for. I do root for the team first and always but when you have outstanding players on your team?....I root for them to. I can agree with that. To a degree. But no player on the team is bigger than the uniform or the city it represents. I like Josh Cribbs, but it's not the Josh Cribbs Browns, it's the Cleveland Browns

 

Question, you say you root for the colors?, the jersey? What if the Browns hadn't been given an expansion team and kept the colors? What if the everything went with them to Baltimore? Would you still root for the colors? Nope. Because they would no longer be the Cleveland Browns. They would be the Baltimore Browns.

 

As far as a player representing city, state, region, etc......not so much! They represent the team that is overpaying them.....period! Agree 100%! It' a business. That is why I root for the team and the city attached to the team over all else.

 

The team that represented Cleveland packed up and moved to Baltimore, lock, stock, and barrel. The city of Cleveland was awarded an expansion along with the rights to the colors, name, and records. It's really very cut and dried.

Yes they did. But in the end, the Browns are the Browns, and the Ravens are the Ravens. The Ravens are building their own legacy and own identity.

 

 

My 2 cents.

[calfoxwc]

Yes, you certainly need to grow a lot. Is that why they kicked you out of the squeeler boards?

[WRREBEL]

 

y

PC or not Retards are fun to play with and you are the king of them!

 

You want to compare brain pans with me? I won the westinhouse prize when I was 12, big deal. I was published when I was 19, so what. I got a double doctorate at mit when I was 22, chemistry and geology.