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Buck The Frowns

Bye Bye Mangini

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There are reasons this team is playing worse now than it did five or six weeks ago. In the end, however, they would simply be excuses and I don't think that any coach under fire really wants to pull those types of excuses out.

 

When you look at this team they are clearly better in terms of talent; The execution is woefully inconsistent.

 

Then we get to the actual coaching and play-calling. We all like to think that we know how much of any success or failure has to do with the coaches or the players and that's simply impossible for us to know. If a play is unsuccessful, is it because:

 

1) the other team played really well?

2) our team played really poorly?

3) the play design on our part was dooming it to fail?

 

We simply don't know.

 

Players play and coaches coach. That's simply the way it is. I am a Mangini fan. I think he's changed the culture and he's righted the ship. The questions about how far he can take it are perhaps, legitimate based on the last few weeks but if you look at the three weeks when he handed Payton, Belichick and (almost) Rex Ryan their collective asses then you have to wonder if firing him now would be premature. Eric Mangini has shown that, at his best, he can coach with the best in the league. Has he been consistent this year? I don't know. I don't know how much is on the coaches and how much is on the players. When Peyton Hillis gets stuffed on 3rd and 1 and Steinbach blocks AIR on the play and the right side is woeful...I don't know what you're expecting the coach to do with the pieces that he has. The offensive line is over-rated. Some defensive rushers have handled Joe Thomas this year and we give him a pass because he's Joe and we love him. Josh Cribbs hasn't been able to make a cut since training camp and he hasn't produced a single "Josh Cribbs" type of return this season. Everyone has injuries and we're no different...but losing Fujita really set this defense back. Robiskie is starting to make some noise and MoMass looks like he isn't a total stiff but it's a bit late.

 

Sometimes good coaches get fired because they simply can't overcome the deficiencies which are numerous. Eric Mangini being fired by Mike Holmgren would be understandable from the standpoint of the results on the field and the fact that Holmgren's view of how to fix the offense may be different. Mangini has suffered from his loyalty to his OC...who whether you think he's a big problem or not...shares some blame. Firing Mangini may not be the best move in the short or long term in the sense that it's quite impatient and it will result in blowing up the 3-4 and a new offense. It will involve a new coach wanting "his" guys. Jon Gruden and John Fox are not bad coaches but are they so much better than Eric Mangini that they deserve to run this ship? I think we'd be being awfully generous if we said "yes".

 

I'd like to keep Eric Mangini for one more season. I don't believe that will happen and I think that will be a setback. I'd also note that no one is asking my opinion.

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Put down the dawg bone, and step away from the egg nog.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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very good points Earl..

 

Even if mangini was to save his job we would have to blow up our offense anyway. Does anyone think Brian gayboll will stay? Anytime you change your OC you have to blow it up...

 

Another thing is I beleive Rob Ryan will be fired also even if Mangini stays.. The guy is the most overated DC of all time. He hasn't done anything was terrible with the raiders..

 

 

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No way in hell there will be a strike in 2011. Have you seen the recent news story about NFL ratings? Of the 20 programs on all TV with the highest ratings, the NFL had 18 of them. They are raking in money hand over fist. Like they say, money talks bullshit walks. A deal WILL get done.

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Now for the really bad news. Those damn Mayans were right and the world ends on December 21, 2012 when there is a huge polar shift.

 

 

At least you didn't say we were 14 games in to a undefeated season with home home field through out the playoffs and the hands down SB favorite.

 

 

 

That would really suck.

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Is there any way you could roll all the "zomg mangini is gonna be gone" threads. Seems every 5 min a new one opens with same story. " I made a grill cheese sandwich, and it had John Grudens face on it. So its official "

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No way in hell there will be a strike in 2011. Have you seen the recent news story about NFL ratings? Of the 20 programs on all TV with the highest ratings, the NFL had 18 of them. They are raking in money hand over fist. Like they say, money talks bullshit walks. A deal WILL get done.

 

Hope you are right, but you might want to check out the link I just posted on 2010 team values, revenues, costs, etc.

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After catching up on the board this evening I decided that, as a public service, I would make a trip to the local Palm Reader's house to ascertain the future of the Browns. I've got good news and bad news.

 

First the good news.

 

Mangini stays, Daboll goes. Chucky comes to Cleveland. Holmgren names Chucky as head coach and Mangini volunteers to become the Offensive Coordinator.

 

0% chance this happens. Mangini was a defensive coordinator before becoming head coach so there is no way he would all of a sudden switch to the offense. The only way that senario could work (but it won't) is if Gruden is hired for offensive coordinator and Mangini stays as head coach...

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0% chance this happens. Mangini was a defensive coordinator before becoming head coach so there is no way he would all of a sudden switch to the offense. The only way that senario could work (but it won't) is if Gruden is hired for offensive coordinator and Mangini stays as head coach...

 

Clearly you didnt read the whole thing. It was a full of sarcasm. Somehow we get AJ Green, Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and Ryan Broyles? Sounds like people should believe that, or that Vick will end up here.

 

Come on man!

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I in the beginning was an avid mangini supporter but it didnt take long to start to see this guy is a mediocre career coach at best, i like a few things he does but for the most part he makes consistently bad decisions at every level from hiring and then keeping dabs right on down to the field where the guy couldnt make the right game deciding decision if his life depended on it.

He is very uncreative and unoriginal and add dabs into the picture and you have a team that can be easily predicted and all but assured of no on the fly adjustments or personnel changes, after being hammered by holmgren mangini revises his gameplan to beat the saints and pats with creativity and then after holmgren is impressed manweenie slips back into his mediocre my way or no way skin and this time he his caught and finished..

 

Mangini leaves much to be desired in a head coach from a fans view but lamontes stable is very bare on good coaching talent and i honestly dont see anyone that stands out but gruden or holmgren himself that would do it for me...otherwise we are likely trading a smelly turd already in the toilet for a potentially explosive diarrhea accident..

 

 

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Clearly you didnt read the whole thing. It was a full of sarcasm. Somehow we get AJ Green, Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and Ryan Broyles? Sounds like people should believe that, or that Vick will end up here.

 

Come on man!

 

you're right i skimmed. my bad! but with everything else that has been posted over the past few days, it is harder to distinguish sarcasm from stupidity...

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This is just my opinion but this is who i think will be the next coaching staff

 

HC: Mike Holmgren or Jon Gruden

 

OC: Jim Zorn

 

DC: John Fox

 

and i do believe who ever our next HC is we will make the change to a 4-3 Defence OR we will show multipul fronts

 

HC: Mike Holmgren or Jon Gruden

Either of these guys will do, but gruden is going to be in high demand and will be expensive or may chose to hold off another year so maybe holmgren holds down the fort until chucky comes home...

 

OC: Jim Zorn

After daboll a bum off the skids would be an upgrade and thats about how much an upgrade this casket bait would be..

 

DC: John Fox

He has been an HC to long to consider a step down..

 

I also believe with a new coach and DC we will go 4-3 and it cant be soon enough..

 

With mangini we know what to expect, solid below mediocre performance with a new coach even gruden or holmy himself we dont know what to expect other than it has to equate to a better situation with moderately immediate improvement...

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I wouldnt mind John Fox or even Jeff Fisher i think he may be gone in Tennessee depending on how the Vince Young situation plays out, and my dark horse who i think would fit are WCO is Jim Harbaugh from Stanford be great for the brothers to battle it out twice a year

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I just saw an article where he dosent want Young as we all know and the owner refuses to let him go as he sees him as the long term QB, So my question is do you think he would be a good fit for the browns?

 

 

Im also not completely writing off Mangini but i guess everyone else feels we need to get rid of him i think he is laying some great foundation for the next couple years i mean you really do need at least 3 years to build your team the way you would want, but everyone is calling for his head so im wondering who could possible be the next one to come in, John Fox?? and please no to Gruden i know he gets alot of love on here but im just not sold on him as a HC

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The real question is if they fire Mangini after this season who would actually want to risk coming here knowing that they only have 2 years to build a winner? Im sure there are tons of unproven people who would take a 2 year head coaching gig in the NFL over what they're doing now but would any respectable coach be willing to put his name on the line to try and turn us into a winner in only two short seasons?

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Why exactly do people want fox i don't understand it.

 

Also, can someone give a reason besides us not winning the SB in his 2nd year to why mangini needs to go.

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Does everyone who wants mangini gone have their mind's made up. is there no way for him to show you he can be our coach in the long run. I don't see that in gruden. He's shown he will just get progressively worse over time.

 

I just can't understand the need to get rid of coaches when they have to try and install their system. Name a great NFL coach who turned everything around in a year and showed he could do it with consistency.

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i really can't believe that i am somehow associated with fans, of the team i will stand up and cheer for, thru thick and thin, good and bad (a fan to a point so much so as people at the 'social' gambino club i hung out with yesterday were asking me to leave cuz i was making such a scene) with you little MARYs that are just looking for reasons to whine..........man up, belly up and quit your FING bellyaching. holy shit! it's not like god and country asked you to raise up and actually contribute something positive to this post, thread or social conscienceness. how about a little xmas cheer? wozzy wozzy wah wah!! where's schleprock when you need him? lord knows he'd be better to hang out with than you snivvelin' little bastards.

 

all you naysaying negative pricks:here's to you getting shit-canned after the first of the year!!!!! cheers!!

 

what's the term? young dumb and full of DUMB?

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Gruden is my only hope right now.

 

have you ever looked to jesus for salvation? (joke, friends). put the pipe down. things might turn around. look up, not down.

 

 

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He is a fiery guy who is from the same tree as Holmgren.

 

you misspelled the word FAIRY

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First the good news.

 

Mangini stays, Daboll goes. Chucky comes to Cleveland. Holmgren names Chucky as head coach and Mangini volunteers to become the Offensive Coordinator.

 

i just threw up in my jaager. URP!!!! :mellow:

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This is a very good and frequently asked comment. So let's be fair about it. Guys like you and I really have the Jones for the Super bowl. We all do. But here is the unfair part of using the SB as a ruler. The SB is big, bold, glitzy, flashy, sexy and for 30 teams every year, unattainable.

 

So really, if you were to put any coach on stage and ask the question......... "is the guy to get us to a super bowl", most coaches that haven't been there, probably would not elicit a huge YES from the fans. No disrespect meant, but really how can we say any man is the guy who will get us there?

 

When you take a look at Mangini's press demeanor, he comes off as a polite, non-talkative guy. Not flashy, not boisterous. Judging the way we fans are conditioned by the media to think, maybe we can't see clearly.

 

I always thought Cowher was a great coach. If he never won a SB I wouldn't think any less of him. Marty never made it to a SB, but does that make him a bad coach?

 

I can flip this back on you. What would the Browns record be with Gruden coaching? Can you say without a doubt he would have done better than Mangini?

 

Of the coaches you like, who do you think would have taken THIS Browns team to the SB?

 

What is it that you feel Mangini hasn't done, that if he did, would have lead to more wins? Would this team be 10 - 4 with Gruden or Cowher? See, I don't think so.

 

Another flip, what do you think our record would have been IF we had a flashy, explosive running back, a break away WR and a badass pass rusher and bone crushing shut down DB?

 

According to the CB website we lost 8 football games by 7 points or less, and a bunch by 3 or 4.

 

Yet one more flip............ if Mangini had a flashy RB, potent WR, badass DB and one more pass rusher, do you really think we would not have put more than 7 points on the board in most of, if not ALL of those 8 games? DO you also think that the added talent on D would not have lowered our opponents scores?

 

From what I can see, the Mangini Browns were a few players away from reasonably being a 12 - 2 team this year.

 

Final flip - You think Gruden would have been this consistent and disciplined with the talent we have?

 

Can Mangini get us to the SB? I know this much, the guy has been consistently respectable and just a twat hair away from a bunch of wins.

 

Firing this kid will be a mistake, and a huge one at that. The shakey, flakey condition of our management has made Mangini's status here unsure, at best. He has performed under a lot of clouds and doubts AND more importantly to remember, today's players aren't the most noble as a group. Point being, if some of them perceived that Mangini wasn't going to be here long, they may have either loafed, or in the case of the players who don't like him, maybe not given everything.

 

Can he get us to the SB? He is a better coach and has more principles than Gruden. I don't believe Gruden would have held this team together.

 

Again, if Mangini gets fired, we will live to regret it. I think this guy has championship values and a champion's heart. That's the important thing to find.

 

agree 1000%. as others have said "the grass is always greener ".

 

i know i can come off as being against gruden but i'm really not. i'm against the OMG we're not in the playoffs, fire the coach faction of our fan base. let the MFer sit down and stretch out, order a drink before you run him out of town already. geez imagine if these guys went into their new job and didn't know when to take out the fries when the bell rings......they'd be out whistling dixie before the sun hit their wives' ass down on the docks. imagine their 11 kids then.

 

in all seriousness... let the guy fulfill his contract and let's see what he can do next year....with the draft, fa and all. next year: no playoffs....send him packing.

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I like Mangini.

Still the last two games are a terrible letdown and may well have cost him his job.

 

Maybe as in the classical theater his tragic flaw was the betrayal of old King William back in New England.

The"tragic flaw" means that because of a bad act early in the play, the character must die at the end no matter what his redemptive actions may be.

 

Et tu, Eric?

WSS

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As much as I love what Vince Young did for the University of Texas, Colt McCoy is a far better choice for long-term QB for the Browns. Young has some serious maturity issues and is outstanding when he is on but his play has become inconsistent. He needs a strong QB coach that will take him on as a project and work on his personality issues. Jeff Fisher iss way overrated IMHO and needs to get a reality check in Tennessee.

 

Mangini will stay I think or Holmgren will coach for a year in 2011. The poblem is that the Browns have too many holes to fill in one year so it is going to be VERY tough for them to become playoff calibre next year.

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Wouldn't mind having John Fox.

 

Please NO, I watched him underachieve in Charlotte for six years.............andt AGAIN I repeat it is not Holmgren's MO to hire a defensive minded guy. He is going to bring in an offensive minded guy. Fox is defensive minded and three yards and cloud of dust and a loses. Why bring in a certified track record loser?

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>>Mangini will be gone and someone besides Holmgren will the coach and HE WILL BE OFFENSIVE MINDED................book it

>>

 

I am on record for questioning Mangini's ability to be a long-term and successful coach in the NFL. I saw his team quit on him in NY and he is very green in terms of head coaching material.

 

This being said - and I have seen little of the Browns this year - what I have seen is a team coming together, a team playing competitively, albeit lacking a lot of NFL talent and a team, just maybe, on the cusp of being a good team in a really tough division.

 

I believe he deserves another year.

 

However, I wonder if Holmgren kept him around this year, simply because he didn't want to turn EVERYTHING upside down in one year. Maybe he thought Mangini could serve as a caretaker considering the team has a lot of holes to fill. Maybe he wants to bring in his own guy.

 

I don't know but I do believe Mangini has done a job worthy of being brought back next year.

 

It probably won't happen but I hope it does.

 

 

 

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